cable measurements !

gUYS? I AM AMaZED.. a discussion on cable and No comments

How very un-audiophile like

Hi Arj,

The primary reason as to why there is no discussion on this article is that it is highly technical, atleast thats what I presume.(I maybe wrong) All said and done one purchases a certain brand of cable only after auditioning it with his setup. If it does not sound right, no matter how well reviewed it is, its not worth spending hard earned money for status symbol sake. Even after going into all these calculations cited in the article audiophiles will spend most of their time and effort in auditioning the cables they intend to buy rather than read about capacitance, inductance, skin effect, dielectric loss etc.

In blind testing of cables I have noticed that the ear (or the mind) is curious or straining to detect a difference in the sound. So by connecting the same cable again in an ABX comparison the audiophile feels there is a "slight change/improvement" in the response although in reality none exists. This psychological phenomenon also plays an important part in influencing ones decision.

I for one would never change equipment or cable until unless there appears to be a drastic change. Its just not worth the money spent. Also for auditioning any equipment / cables once is not enough. It takes a lot of trial and error to reach a conclusion.

i agree with you behram....that stuff's too technical..as a new person to the audiophile world, my presumption is that its all abt music and the purity of sounds that a human ear can sense....there might be differences in different qualities of spkr wires being used, but it will be negligible, unless one has been usin really screwed up wires, then replaces with branded OFC...and again as discussed in the case of biwiring, its better to spend that extra buck to increase one's music collection..

what say...

nindo

its not actually too bad. i found the response graphs of cables as well as their comparison with a ZIp cord in characteristics quite interesting.(Table 5 and associated graphs)

first time I am seeing it and which shows that cables can be electrically different.

But How that difference translates to sonically is a different issue

ari wrote :

But How that difference translates to sonically is a different issue

If I could make the differences out then I wouldnot hang around here and waste my time and nor would you?? would you??

TROJAN_HORSE schrieb:

ari wrote : If I could make the differences out then I wouldnot hang around here and waste my time and nor would you?? would you??

Amazing
One of the most thought provoking posts ever from you !!! please do not waste your time here am sure it can be more valuably spent otherwise

Heres another link on blind testing Of cables.. less technical and with some measurements

http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/Greenhill.pdf

Nice comparison between Zip cord and monster cable...

BTW it is a 9 MB dowmoad

TROJAN_HORSE schrieb:

ari wrote : But How that difference translates to sonically is a different issue If I could make the differences out then I wouldnot hang around here and waste my time and nor would you?? would you??

This dude appears once in a blue moon with his sarcastic remarks Why don't you just dissappear ? If want to hang around, contribute something positive to the forum.

i log on after almost a month and what do i see...cables! and more cables!

I don't want this to sound the wrong way..but i think u guys have been giving a lot of time to this cable $hit...guys move on...skin effect,gauge and waht not..seeing all this talk about cables on the forum is just unbelievable...jeez!

Come on guys ..there are more worthwhile issues to talk about.

Savyasaachi schrieb:

Come on guys ..there are more worthwhile issues to talk about.

like what ?

this IS the most evergreen happening topic in audio. on the lines of "Is there God"

BTW, would really appreciate it if you can start another topic.. things are getting a bit staid around here

Arj schrieb:

like what ? this IS the most evergreen happening topic in audio. on the lines of "Is there God" BTW, would really appreciate it if you can start another topic.. things are getting a bit staid around here

hmmm..not evergreen..its more because it makes people see red when they read about cables..people immediately take sides and have a go at the otehr group.

And as u rightly say , it is the most talked about topic on most forums..then lets spare oursleves the trouble of echoing those same thoughts..

am afraid i would not be able to keep up with you guys if i start a new topic as i can access the forum only when i get home or when i get out of my company campus...this site is blocked in my workplace..i only logged on cause i am in bangalore for just one day...

Hi Guys,
There is an easy to understand article called the Genreport on the QED site.
Purnendu

Arj schrieb:

Just came across this and thought ill share it with you folks.. http://www.audioxpress.com/reviews/media/504hansen1203.pdf first time that i am seeing such detailed measurements in cables.. needs time to get it to sink in tho ;)

hey Arj,
thanx for sharing this article w/ us! I had seen this in the AudioExpress magazine back in 2004 when it was published but I did not want to buy the whole magazine just for this article. They did not have it on-line back then so it's just as well that you shared it w/ us.
Good article indeed! Like you all said - very technical. written by the EE in Charles Hansen (chief designer of Ayre products & former designer of Avalon speakers). looks like Charlie Hansen directed it at the EE crowd & no wonder that TAS or Stereophile did not publish it! This sort of article also belongs in the IEEE Test & Measurement journal.

some of the things I got from the article:
(1) there is a good reason to use flat/ribbon speaker cables 'cuz they have lower inductance than round cables & they have lower skin effect as well. Higher capacitance than round cables but that does not matter much to a well designed amp 'cuz this capacitance is shunted to ground. On the other forums I visit, there are a number of people very zealously defending the use of flat speaker cables & I can see why. The old timer flat cables manuf used to be Nordost, Magnan & Alpha-Core but some others have cropped up & seem to be doing well for themselves. They are Audio Magic & Jena Labs. Must be others but I cannot recall their names right now.
(2) cables using Teflon/PTFE insulation are the best (& the most expensive!).
(3) don't coil your speaker wire if you happen to have an excessive length as this act increases its overall capacitance.
(4) never give yourself an opportunity for (3) above by making sure that you use the shortest length speaker cable needed.
(5) if one is going to use stranded wire speaker cables, then ensure that it's Litz/Hyper-Litz wire.
(6) speaker cables do add to the distortion of the music signal but their distortion is very low in comparison to the electronics & the speakers. So, one needs to optimize one's system to obtain the lowest noise-floor possible & the lowest distortion from the speakers before trying to listen for artifacts from cables. I think that I made this same point in Behram's other thread where he was trying to discern sonic diff between OFC & non-OFC cables. even then, it's iff at best. reviewing cables is a tough job! I don't envy those pro reviewers for this. One can almost never derive a conclusion from their listening reports as things are so system-dependent.
IMHO. FWIW.