Planar speakers

Overall, not too bad..could use more height in the imaging as some instruments felt to low near the ground to me and for some vocals as well. Margo sounded phenomenal to me. Definitely has that midrange down. A bit sharp on some notes, but overall it didn't come off shrill one little bit, might in fact say it had reserved highs lol.

This is a typical scenario of rolled off highs. You may not realize this but height of a soundstage is very directly proportional to the high frequency response of the system (room included). Typically, lot of room treatments would eat into the higher-highs which results in such anomalies. And yes, most of the treble detail (that we perceive) is in the range of <12khz. It is mostly extension from 12khz-20khz that adds air, height, ambiance to the soundstage. The rolling off of this region is generally not apparent through instrumental details. So I am guessing that you would have heard most of the instrumental details with the Maggies but the stage may not be airy...it is just a guess, let us know what you think.

Interesting insight, Abhi.

Thanks

abhi.pani schrieb:

This is a typical scenario of rolled off highs. You may not realize this but height of a soundstage is very directly proportional to the high frequency response of the system (room included). Typically, lot of room treatments would eat into the higher-highs which results in such anomalies. And yes, most of the treble detail (that we perceive) is in the range of <12khz. It is mostly extension from 12khz-20khz that adds air, height, ambiance to the soundstage. The rolling off of this region is generally not apparent through instrumental details. So I am guessing that you would have heard most of the instrumental details with the Maggies but the stage may not be airy...it is just a guess, let us know what you think.

Wow...did not know this

Thanks for the feedback abhi..this makes sense..it is just like over damping a planar headphone and sucking out the airiness and bass from a system. THe midrange sounds thin as well when we orthoheads play around with different damping schemes. an over damped headphone will sound similar to your description of how the speakers sound with an over treated room.
They did have a fair few room treatments.

The reason i am curious about the 1.6 and 1.7 comparison is that there is a1.6 for sale locally (50 miles away ) for about 1100$. the 1.7s are 2000$. It is said the 1.7s improve upon the bass, but i haven't had time to research the common theme i seem to be hearing across forums, that is that the 1.6s are "better".

Savyasaachi schrieb:

Overall, not too bad..could use more height in the imaging as some instruments felt to low near the ground to me and for some vocals as well.

Like Amp_Nut wrote, Abhi's post is "interesting"...
From my experience with cone & planar speakers I find that if the phasing of the speaker is correct, the midrange should come from approx the middle of the speaker - ascertain what the overall vertical height of the midrange driver is, split that vertical height in 1/2 & the midrange should be coming from that location. Mid-bass will be lower than the midrange & the deep bass should be omni-directional. I remember that this was true for Amp_Nut's system (if I remember correctly there is a marble window sill which happened to be exactly at the mid of the midrange). I also found this thumb rule to be true for my own system & my brother's. I cannot remember for Switch-it-On's system as we were still trying to settle-in the Audiaz speakers at that time.
I don't remember what the height of the 1.6 is but it is entirely possible that you might need additional (Sound Anchor or Mye) stands.
A friend of mine had a smaller Magnepan speaker (it was smaller than the 1.6 for sure - maybe it was the MG12?) which was a 2-way & I felt the same way as you did. I knew that he needed to raise that speaker off the floor - he had them on squarely on the floor. I'm thinking stands that are often used for the Martin-Logan CLS II & CLZ speakers.
Also remember that the MG 1.6 is 86dB/W/m & is a 4 Ohms impedance. So, remember that you need to have a powerful wattage & high(er) current amplifier.

Good segway to another good planar speaker - the Martin-Logan CLSII & the latest CLZ speaker. The latter might be way off your budget but it might be worth hearing. Of course, these are Electrostatic speakers.
Yet another Electrostat brand of superb sonics are SoundLabs. I do not know which their smallest model is but look into them. They have a good website as well.

And, then there are the Apogee ribbon speakers. What might fit your bill in terms of size & budget are the Apogee Caliper & Apogee Duetta/Duetta Signature. These are harder to find & often need immediate repair altho' I have seen several pairs on sale on Audiogon that are in plug-n-play condition & all for a very reasonable price.

Savyasaachi schrieb:

Heard a pair of Magnepan 1.7s yesterday late afternoon at the local dealer's palce. POwered by a big macintosh integrated and source fed from EMM labs and then Esoteric DV50.

Abhi.pani schrieb:

This is a typical scenario of rolled off highs. You may not realize this but height of a soundstage is very directly proportional to the high frequency response of the system (room included). Typically, lot of room treatments would eat into the higher-highs which results in such anomalies. And yes, most of the treble detail (that we perceive) is in the range of <12khz. It is mostly extension from 12khz-20khz that adds air, height, ambiance to the soundstage. The rolling off of this region is generally not apparent through instrumental details. So I am guessing that you would have heard most of the instrumental details with the Maggies but the stage may not be airy...it is just a guess, let us know what you think.

overall this might be a hasty conclusion, Abhi. It is well-known that the MG1.7/QR is has a 86dB/W/m sensitivity & is a 4 Ohm speaker. It uses a true ribbon for the hi freq, a quasi ribbon for the mids & a planar driver for the bass. So, given its low sens & OK-high impedance, the "big macintosh" might not have been powerful enough to drive it + who knows what the room was like. There are several "big macintosh" amps but many times they are autoformer coupled at the output even their solid-state amps. The autoformer creates a much better impedance match (compared to non autoformer designs) but this system is not the best for transferring large amounts of current into the speaker load. So, this might be an inherent limitation which is not being realized by the dealer.

Savyasaachi schrieb:

Thanks for the feedback abhi..this makes sense..it is just like over damping a planar headphone and sucking out the airiness and bass from a system. THe midrange sounds thin as well when we orthoheads play around with different damping schemes. an over damped headphone will sound similar to your description of how the speakers sound with an over treated room. They did have a fair few room treatments. The reason i am curious about the 1.6 and 1.7 comparison is that there is a1.6 for sale locally (50 miles away ) for about 1100$. the 1.7s are 2000$. It is said the 1.7s improve upon the bass, but i haven't had time to research the common theme i seem to be hearing across forums, that is that the 1.6s are "better".

Hi Sachi,
I may not be able to draw parallel between planar speakers and headphones the way you can because I have no experience with such headphones. However I dont know how you can perceive the change in image height in a headphone since the headphone is directly coupled at your ear height . I mean there is no way you can have the image at your waist level when you are listening to headphones right ?
But yes there could be other anomalies that you have pointed out.

bombaywalla schrieb:

Abhi.pani schrieb: This is a typical scenario of rolled off highs. You may not realize this but height of a soundstage is very directly proportional to the high frequency response of the system (room included). Typically, lot of room treatments would eat into the higher-highs which results in such anomalies. And yes, most of the treble detail (that we perceive) is in the range of <12khz. It is mostly extension from 12khz-20khz that adds air, height, ambiance to the soundstage. The rolling off of this region is generally not apparent through instrumental details. So I am guessing that you would have heard most of the instrumental details with the Maggies but the stage may not be airy...it is just a guess, let us know what you think. overall this might be a hasty conclusion, Abhi. It is well-known that the MG1.7/QR is has a 86dB/W/m sensitivity & is a 4 Ohm speaker. It uses a true ribbon for the hi freq, a quasi ribbon for the mids & a planar driver for the bass. So, given its low sens & OK-high impedance, the "big macintosh" might not have been powerful enough to drive it + who knows what the room was like. There are several "big macintosh" amps but many times they are autoformer coupled at the output even their solid-state amps. The autoformer creates a much better impedance match (compared to non autoformer designs) but this system is not the best for transferring large amounts of current into the speaker load. So, this might be an inherent limitation which is not being realized by the dealer.

Hi Bombaywalla, I really cannot conclude anything with so little information, I was only guessing. But I would try explain why I guessed in the direction I did:

1. I have heard the Maggie 1.6 on three occasions with three different amplifications. The amplifiers were
a) Some AVR from Onkyo
b) Entry level Krell 400xi integrated
c) My own SL amp
In none of the occasions did I find the image height to be a concern. Especially the vocals were pretty much dead centre placed at a decent height, as one would expect. That gives me a feeling that it is not a design flaw with the speaker (wrt image height I mean).

2. The way Sachi describes it, it clearly seems like voices are coming from close to the ground. This is not easy to achieve . In the last year or so I have been playing around with lots positioning and orientation of speakers in my room. I have also been playing with room treatments. During this time there were couple of instances when I faced the exact same issue what Sachi is facing today. When I move the speaker to a certain location, the image height suddenly drops by a feet. The vocals were at the woofer level instead of the usual mid-driver level. It was astonishing since everything else in the chain remained the same. I could not notice any lack of highs because instruments were clear and sparkling but yes, the soundstage was not as airy but rather stark. I then had some discussions on some ATC forums and also on Audiogon forums, that is when I learnt a few things. The problem was my heavily foamed fabric sofa. Unknowingly I had placed the speakers right adjacent to the Sofa. The sofa was eating into the high treble. Removing the sofa instantly cured the problem. I also confirmed this later with some other audiophiles who have had similar issues in those forums.

Since then I have worked towards "not-treating" my room as much as possible. I still have carpets on the floor and drapes on the wall to prevent any ringing and echo, but the drapes are now simple light weight and coarsely textured.

All in all it may look like I simplified things a bit too much but then using a machine gun to kill a mosquito also looks funny .

Abhi, thanks much for explaining where you were coming from.

hi guys,

i will respond to all your posts in a little bit. BUt first.

I visited the showroom one more time today. I spent another 90 mins with the 1.7 but this time it was on a mcintosh tube amp rated at 75 watts.

The speakers just sounded amazing and life like. THey certainly have the planar midrange down!. The bass while sufficient for most music was lacking for stuff like rock. The imaging still is a bit of a problem i suppose, the height..but overall the speakers do tend to disappear and the detailing is brilliant.

Now i really wonder how the 1.6s are going to sound as i just got an offer from the seller for 900$ delivered to my door by the first owner.

I am going to take the offer and hope for the best that they sound as much if not "better" than the 1.7s as some have reported.

I am eyeing a Nakamichi PA-7 amp to power these babies. There is one local for about 800-850.

Other options are Mcormak DNA125, Odyssey stratos, Class D amps (suggestions?), Jolida 1000A, Hafler DH500, Esound S8..more options if you have please add in..under 1-1.5k used is fine by me.

Good call Sachi. I liked the Maggies too.

Good decision sachi. I have heard the maggies 1.6 a few times and loved them !

No such issues with low image height. An amp with grunt is needed. From your amp choices Dna125 seems to be a good choice. Nuforce amps also seem to do well with maggies in terms of driving them but I don't like the combo too much.

Manek

Thanks guys, I am going to go for the Hafler DH-500..its a beast of an amp made for pro audi ouse.

It'll suffice for now and at 300$ its a no brainer as i wait to decide on something more permanent. I will be using my headphone amplifier as a pre-amp, again for the time being.

Make your own pre sir !

Manek

I am going to go for the Hafler DH-500.

The Right decision, IMHO, though I have not heard all the candidates mentioned by you.

You MUST replace all the pld Electrolytic Capacitors in the Haffler, and it will restore it to thoroughbred status. If the Caps are 2 decades old and you do not plan to replace them, then I would suggest another amp....

The Nakamichi amps ( I had heard only 1, about 2 decades ago ! ), was a PARTICULARLY bad choice. Nakamichi Amps had Zero to light frequency respponce, Distortion in Parts-Per-Million but very mediocre sound. Worst of all ( for the Maggies) the Nakamichi amps had NO Grunt. Current delivery into reactive loads was Shabby. The Maggies would only squeak with such an amp.

Savyasaachi schrieb:

Thanks guys, I am going to go for the Hafler DH-500..its a beast of an amp made for pro audi ouse. It'll suffice for now and at 300$ its a no brainer as i wait to decide on something more permanent. I will be using my headphone amplifier as a pre-amp, again for the time being.

cool, Saachi! you made a decision quick re. the amp. Hopefully it will work out for you. You do realize that you need an amp that has a lot of grunt i.e. current delivery ability (& not so much wattage). If the Hafler DH-500 does not work out, no sweat - for $300 you can't lose too much!

here is the assembly manual for the DH-500 amp (it was a kit amp that people bought & assembled at home) -
http://www.hafler.com/techsupport/pdf/DH-500_amp_man.pdf
if you see the schematics (on page 16 of 23), you'll see that it uses 3 MOSFET transistors in parallel in the push & pull legs.
These are supposedly Hitachi Semiconductor transistors that on the face of it seem to be very high rated for current & voltage but..................
if you read their spec sheet:
http://pdf1.alldatas...HITACHI/2SK176.html& look at the 2SK176 "Safe Operation Area" (SOA) graph on page 4, you'll see that these transistors can output 2A each (look at the "PW=10mS (1 shot)" dotted line where it crosses 60V. The x-axis is power supply voltage). I chose the 10mS dotted line because 1/10mS = 100Hz, which is a bonafide music signal freq. For deeper bass you will be needing frequencies like 40Hz (25mS), 30Hz (33.33mS) & you can see that the DH-500 will output much less current at 60V. It does not look like a whole lot of current output when you take the above #s & multiply by 3 (3 parallel MOSFET output devices) but hopefully it'll suffice for your situation.

So, what I'm expecting is that the DH-500 will not give you much deep bass at all (simply not enough parallel output devices present to deliver high current into a load) & you will be disappointed in that department. You already are disappointed w/ the MG1.7 bass for rock so, based on the data I have provided you, my prediction is that the DH500-MG1.6 combination will continue to disappoint you w.r.t. deep(er) bass but like you wrote, you can't lose too much for $300. long-term, there are many nice amps to choose from....
I like your choice in speakers
(corrected some spelling mistakes! )

haha..wow..thanks for all that bombaywalla..and amp nut for the info on the nakamichi.

I haven't bought the hafler yet and wouldn't be able to till next week anyways.


What other amps would you guys recommend.

edit: I do have plans to possibly build a pair of F5 monoblocks..but this is atleast a few months out so do need something till that happens. I missed out a good deal on a Gamut D100 a couple of weeks back. I could look at the ODyssey stratos. ALso another relatively cheap alternative are the emotiva monoblock power amps. I have heard those and did like them in the Bamberg audio setup i believe. Another option Wyred 4 Sound amps (Icepower based)

Savyasaachi schrieb:

I missed out a good deal on a Gamut D100 a couple of weeks back. .

B'walla that was awesome
Saachi, i am all in favour of a Gamut D100

But you can get a Mcintosh amp for sub 1k as well !

Which mcintosh do you have in mind Arj?

A coupleof further options i ahve are:
Denon POA-2400(325(local, used)
Outlaw audio 200 or 2200 monoblocks.(750 a pair new)

Why Not Consider THESE (extreme) speakers:

http://www.royaldevice.com/custom.htm

naaa..that's not hardcore enough for me the ones am having built are way more rad.

Hey , i really dont know, but it is one of those brands with an image of an Iron fist in a velvet glove which appeals a lot
may be you could check them out ?
I saw these in A'gon
http://www.audiogon....63&/McIntosh-MC2200-
http://www.audiogon....C754-in-excellent-co
There is also a Carver amp for sale which may be a good match
http://www.audiogon....rver-M500T-excellent

Savyasaachi schrieb:

haha..wow..thanks for all that bombaywalla..and amp nut for the info on the nakamichi. I haven't bought the hafler yet and wouldn't be able to till next week anyways. What other amps would you guys recommend. edit: I do have plans to possibly build a pair of F5 monoblocks..but this is atleast a few months out so do need something till that happens. I missed out a good deal on a Gamut D100 a couple of weeks back. I could look at the ODyssey stratos. ALso another relatively cheap alternative are the emotiva monoblock power amps. I have heard those and did like them in the Bamberg audio setup i believe. Another option Wyred 4 Sound amps (Icepower based)

Saachi, welcome.
Again, the idea was not to scare you off but to inform you a little bit of what you might expect from DH500-MG1.6s combination. So, can still go ahead & purchase the DH500 amp. The only diff now is that you will do it with your eyes open (rather than buying it with large expecations due to its power rating & then getting potentially disappointed once you listen).

Which other amps? My recommendations FWIW are
* Aragon amps such as the 4004 or 8008- see if you can find 2-ch or 3-ch used on Audigon or local to where you live.
* Older Parasound s.s. amps like the HCA-1500, HCA-2200. Many of that generation of power amps had a "High Current" version.
* Krell KSA series like the Krell KSA 150. These will be, no doubt, expensive & possibly over your budget. However, they are very good amps even by today's standards.
* The Odyssey Stratos Extreme monos will probably suffice as well. I think that Klaus fortifies the power supply for that model but I do not know if that includes increasing the power transformer or not?
* I've heard good things about the Wyred 4 Sound class-D amps. Some people seem to thing that these are modelled after the PS Audio GCA series class-D amps. I have no personal experience w/ these amps myself.
* I've also heard good things about the Emotiva Audio amps but it has always been w.r.t. home theatre. Maybe it was just the guys I was speaking to (there are many more HT buffs here than 2-ch!). I have no personal experience w/ these amps myself.

Have heard quad 909 drive the quad electsats well.

Wonder if that would do for the maggies ?

Manek

THank you for the recommendations guys.

Bombaywalla:
THere is an aragon 8008 for local sale.

PLease check out www.echohifi.com and let me know if you see anything in the amplifier section that is worth it.

THe local magnepan dealer also has a Unico U200 and an Edge NL10. Both around the 2.8-3k mark..wish i could throw that kinda money now..sigh..got way too many toys to indulge in..mainly a nice yamaha R6 or HOnda CBR600RR sports bike

ANyways, Acintosh's are definitely an option but should be at the right price.

THe other amp I am really looking at is from VIncent Audio. SPecifically the SP-331, SP226MK2, SP336mk2. Have been reading very good things about www.AVAhifi.com gear as well, particularly when paired with magnepans. DOn't know if any of you have had any experience with the Van ALstine stuff.

Manek, will check out the quad.

Thats why the US is so Awesome for Audio ..
I would be around for a couple of days at Bridgewater, NJ in Feb.. any idea on where i can do some Audio Eye candy thingy in and around NJ ?

Savyasaachi schrieb:

THank you for the recommendations guys. Bombaywalla: THere is an aragon 8008 for local sale. PLease check out www.echohifi.com and let me know if you see anything in the amplifier section that is worth it. THe local magnepan dealer also has a Unico U200 and an Edge NL10. Both around the 2.8-3k mark..wish i could throw that kinda money now..sigh..got way too many toys to indulge in..mainly a nice yamaha R6 or HOnda CBR600RR sports bike ANyways, Acintosh's are definitely an option but should be at the right price. THe other amp I am really looking at is from VIncent Audio. SPecifically the SP-331, SP226MK2, SP336mk2. Have been reading very good things about www.AVAhifi.com gear as well, particularly when paired with magnepans. DOn't know if any of you have had any experience with the Van ALstine stuff. Manek, will check out the quad.

Saachi, at www.echohifi.com I find that the Parasound 2125 is a pretty decent high(er) current amp.
Yes, that Aragon 8008 available locally is also a very good amp that has a reputation of being able to provide some grunt.
No experience w/ your other amp suggestions.

Cool..will check them out ..the aragon is going for 800..a bit much if you ask me for that amp.

THere is a Rotel RB-1080 for 500$ and a parasound HCA-1500A for 400..leaning towards the latter as a stop gap..

I like the Quad 909 suggested by Manek. Really nice amp.

sigh..sent an offer for a plinius SA-100 Mk2..we'll see where this goes..was on sale for 1400$ plus shipping

OK..just bought the damn thing..crazy business of ours this audio ..or maybe its just me

http://cgi.audiogon....-sa-100-mkii-class-A

Awesome ! congrat... now maybe you can help me out with this..

Arj schrieb:

I would be around for a couple of days at Bridgewater, NJ in Feb.. any idea on where i can do some Audio Eye candy thingy in and around NJ ?

Savyasaachi schrieb:

OK..just bought the damn thing..crazy business of ours this audio ..or maybe its just me http://cgi.audiogon....-sa-100-mkii-class-A

sucker!!
(of course I'm just pulling your leg).
very good choice (a bit too coloured for my own use but none the less an excellent amp) & very capable in terms of output current. Let me tell you - this ain't your "stop-gap" amp!!
you spent so much money on a nice MG1.6 & if you don't have a capable amp, you'll just suffer. So, you did the right thing.
And, yes, you've confirmed that belong in the asylum like all of us.....

well the other option was/and still is (if i want to cancel transaction on the plinius) a DK DEsign VS-1 Reference Mk3 for 1500 shipped and pay palled..and it is an integrated amp to boot..

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1299266748

And Arjun..I really have no clue..google i would say is your best bet or perhaps ask on audiokarma or audioasylum.

Edit: Anyways..am sticking with the plinius as i have heard the newer SA102 (at SIva sir's place) and i liked it a lot. ANd for 1492 shipped..i don't think i will lose much money if any at all if i choose to look elsewhere in a few months or so.

hey in that range, even This amp was an option.

Arj schrieb:

Awesome ! congrat... now maybe you can help me out with this.. Arj schrieb: I would be around for a couple of days at Bridgewater, NJ in Feb.. any idea on where i can do some Audio Eye candy thingy in and around NJ ?

Arj, I'll say this up-front: I'm out of my league here as I do not live in NJ but.............

in the township of Montclair, NJ (Essex county) there is a HT shop called "CSA Audio". They advertise heavily in Stereophile.
You will be in Somerset county & I think that you will be 30 miles driving distance from Montclair.
My suggestion would be to obtain a car (if you don't already have a rental) & drive over to CSA Audio & check them out. Here's a link to their website:
http://www.csaaudiodesign.com/
Notice the "2 Channel" link in the center of the top bar! Looks like they are more than just HT....

Arj,

that's probably a much older amp..the SA-100 MK2 is around the same age as well ..perhaps a few years younger..i've already paid for it..so not going to look back now. ANd i would have had to pay paypal fees as well and i have never heard any mark levinson amp...yet. WE'll see with the plinius on the way i can wheel and deal to my hearts content with my local audio dealer

Savyasaachi schrieb:

Arj, that's probably a much older amp..the SA-100 MK2 is around the same age as well ..perhaps a few years younger..i've already paid for it..so not going to look back now. ANd i would have had to pay paypal fees as well and i have never heard any mark levinson amp...yet. WE'll see with the plinius on the way i can wheel and deal to my hearts content with my local audio dealer

Saachi, Arjun's suggestion was also an excellent one. Back in those days that Mark Levinson amp was very highly regarded (& still is today). Your choice & his, I would say, were both first among equals, if I may say so. You couldn't have gone wrong either way. So, good, stick w/ your good choice.
The SA-102 is less coloured than the SA-100 Mk2 just for your FYI - I have heard both in the same system.
Again, for your FYI & maybe for the future: the Plinius amp to get is the SA-250 Mk4 (make sure that it's the Mk4 version). Totally awesome amp with hardly any colouration. Runs very hot (can fry some eggs on the top cover) in pure class-A but has a toggle swith in the front to switch to class-AB mode. Really, really stupendous amp to own & once you own the SA-250 Mk4 you're done amp shopping.
It was a sad day at Plinius when they discontinued this amp. The SA-Ref IMHO does not come close - it's a more "commercial" amp while the SA-250 Mk4 is truer to the music.

Sachi are you happy now

haha..yeah i suppose i am Abhi. Just agonizing that i won't be able to listen to my speakers till the amp gets here which son't be till probably end of next week..sigh

I might actually go downtown and pick up the nakamichi for a 72 hour loan to tide me by the rest of this week..free of charge

bombaywalla schrieb:

Savyasaachi schrieb: Arj, that's probably a much older amp..the SA-100 MK2 is around the same age as well ..perhaps a few years younger..i've already paid for it..so not going to look back now. ANd i would have had to pay paypal fees as well and i have never heard any mark levinson amp...yet. WE'll see with the plinius on the way i can wheel and deal to my hearts content with my local audio dealer Saachi, Arjun's suggestion was also an excellent one. Back in those days that Mark Levinson amp was very highly regarded (& still is today). Your choice & his, I would say, were both first among equals, if I may say so. You couldn't have gone wrong either way. So, good, stick w/ your good choice. The SA-102 is less coloured than the SA-100 Mk2 just for your FYI - I have heard both in the same system. Again, for your FYI & maybe for the future: the Plinius amp to get is the SA-250 Mk4 (make sure that it's the Mk4 version). Totally awesome amp with hardly any colouration. Runs very hot (can fry some eggs on the top cover) in pure class-A but has a toggle swith in the front to switch to class-AB mode. Really, really stupendous amp to own & once you own the SA-250 Mk4 you're done amp shopping. It was a sad day at Plinius when they discontinued this amp. The SA-Ref IMHO does not come close - it's a more "commercial" amp while the SA-250 Mk4 is truer to the music.

Very interesting info Bombaywalla. I never knew about this. It is surprising how two relatively similar amps (SA250-MK4 Vs SA-Ref) sound so different. And in what way Plinius could save cost by moving from a 250 to Ref .

Speaker porn for your viewing pleasure..am in planar heaven even with no proper placement etc..


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<-- yeah that's me with a silly grin listenign to these beauties.
Only just got them singing just now. Haven't bothered with even initial placement and stuff..that's for this weekend...and perpetual from then on as it always is with speakers.

Optical out from PS3 (network shared streaming) - > Assemblage DAC -> EHHA Rev A (preamp function) -> ML No331 -> Magnepan 1.6QR

The mark levinson is on loan from a local store...while i wait for my plinius SA-100 MK2 to arrive. Man these amps are behemoths..

Gr8 going mister !

Manek

Savyasaachi schrieb:

Speaker porn for your viewing pleasure..am in planar heaven even with no proper placement etc.. | | | | | | | | <-- yeah that's me with a silly grin listenign to these beauties. Only just got them singing just now. Haven't bothered with even initial placement and stuff..that's for this weekend...and perpetual from then on as it always is with speakers. Optical out from PS3 (network shared streaming) - > Assemblage DAC -> EHHA Rev A (preamp function) -> ML No331 -> Magnepan 1.6QR The mark levinson is on loan from a local store...while i wait for my plinius SA-100 MK2 to arrive. Man these amps are behemoths.. :P

fantastic, Saachi! I see that you needed instant gratification!!
A couple of things when you do get down to fine tuning the set-up:
* get rid of that TV in between. I bet that it is ruining your imaging. If you cannot get rid of it, cover it up with a medium-light blanket.
* you have way too much toe-in for the speakers. I've heard these speakers with zero toe-in & they sound fantastic. Remember you are dealing w/ planar speakers, which very often do not need any toe-in. If you do want to toe-in, start with 0.75 inches & tweak +/- from there.
* Ensure that the wall behind the speaker is completely clear - planar speakers (like ribbons) are dipole speakers such that you get direct & back-wall reflected sound.

Enjoy planar heaven.....

heh..isn't tatht the world we live in anyways

As i noted, i didn't bother with placement at all..i just couldn't take it anymore looking at those speakers sitting there not making any sound at all.

AS for the TV, i don't know if it will stay there or not..we'll see and yeah that mucking up the imaging is a concern.

So what hapenned ?
Did you get the amp ?
Were you able to do an A/B with the ML?


B'walla thanks for the tip on CSA audio.. I might get to hear a macintosh-Wilson Audio combo there !

Arj schrieb:

B'walla thanks for the tip on CSA audio.. I might get to hear a macintosh-Wilson Audio combo there !

welcome. let us know how that goes & what you actually end up listening to. Thanks.

Arj,

The amp gets here on wednesday. Don't think i will be able to AB it against the ML as the ML is going back tomorrow

gah!!..just got my plinius yesterday and i had sold the EHHA amp in the morning..plugged in everything to see how the plinius sounded and poof..magic smoke from one of the channels on the EHHA..the input setting on the plinius amp was set wrong (XLR dual mono instead of RCA stereo). no idea why this would cause one of my channels on the ehha that i was using as a preamp to blow up.


over my lunch break i managed to drop in a new 10 ohm resistor in the bad channel and the ehha was back up and running. here is what happened next :

ehha was stable so plugged it up to the power amp again
made sure power amp input was set to RCA stereo.
turned on the DAC and EHHA only
Smoke billowed out from the new resistor and this time from the other channel resistor as well .
Replaced resistors again..amp came up fine..disconnected preamp out and only hookedup the DAC to it
Worked perfectly out of the headphone jack

So wht the hell is happening when i hook it up to the power amp? Input impedance on the power amp is 47k and the output impedance on the ehha is about 10-11 ohms.

Could something be hosed in the power amp?

The EHHA worked just fine with the Mark levinson power amp i had earlier.


In any case i am sitting here with a plinius amp and i can't listen to it

The EHHA amp is now fixed and will be shipped off to the guy in Brazil.

I am now loking for a preamp.

Looking at a Van Alstine Insight SL+ preamp with remote for 625 local sale
Other is a Plinius CD-LAD hopefully i can get it for 800 shipped.

Any other suggestesions for under 800?