Entry Level DVDP+HT receiver?

Hi Arjun.
Pioneer has one such thing for around 12k. I saw it here at the pioneer dealer's place a year back. Try it out.

Arj,

Grey market ( Chinese ) DVD player with a built in 2 channel amplifier could be bought at the Mumbai Electronics market ( Lamington Road ) for all of Rs 2200. Zero sales tax too !
Ofcourse you are "scraping the bottom of the barrel " with this stuff... when the music peaks, the display dims!

I think these are some low cost Chinese amps also available. Let mer check out today, but I suspect that you do not want to drop so low in price ?

hey thanks for the range .....

Amp Nut, yes you are right,Abh to Itna nahin gira hoon..Kal ka kuch Bharonsa nahin

Abhi, that looks interesting..

Dear Arj,

Jamo has a package of speakers and a dvd receiver (A10 SERIES).

The dvd receiver is sold seperately by most dealers.
Should cost you in the region of rs 25k. Same thing in grey about 20k.

I believe even Onkyo has a dvd receiver for about 30k.

If you can accomodate a seperate dvd player and an av receiver, then you could get a pioneer dvd for about 4k and a yamaha av receiver for about 13k.

Regards
SNV

Hi Arj,

IMO you should not mix the two, as the DVD player has moving parts, and more prone to failure. Buy a 2K-3K DVD payer, and a less costly HT receiver separately. Anyways the DVD players are so thin nowadays, it almost does not add any extra space.

- Debu

Debu schrieb:

Hi Arj, IMO you should not mix the two, as the DVD player has moving parts, and more prone to failure. Buy a 2K-3K DVD payer, and a less costly HT receiver separately. Anyways the DVD players are so thin nowadays, it almost does not add any extra space. - Debu

Arj, why not just buy a simple 1000W minicompo (like my bro's Sony DVD one). It will have all you want. Debu might be right about the reliability, but at that price if it last 7yrs, that's more than enough! The sound's good enough for pop/ rock too. But, don't try classical

Arj, why not just buy a simple 1000W minicompo (like my bro's Sony DVD one). It will have all you want. Debu might be right about the reliability, but at that price if it last 7yrs, that's more than enough! The sound's good enough for pop/ rock too. But, don't try classical

1000W ?

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Arj, why not just buy a simple 1000W minicompo (like my bro's Sony DVD one). It will have all you want. Debu might be right about the reliability, but at that price if it last 7yrs, that's more than enough! The sound's good enough for pop/ rock too. But, don't try classical 1000W ? :?

Not adequate ?? 5000W is also available

abhi.pani schrieb:

Amp_Nut schrieb: Arj, why not just buy a simple 1000W minicompo (like my bro's Sony DVD one). It will have all you want. Debu might be right about the reliability, but at that price if it last 7yrs, that's more than enough! The sound's good enough for pop/ rock too. But, don't try classical 1000W ? :? Not adequate ?? 5000W is also available :D

Amp_Nut schrieb:

[ 1000W ? :?

I walked into a sony star to ask about some LCDs and they had an HT so I casually aksed the rating of the slim HT amplifier.

i was told 3600 W !!

so i very "innocently" asked the sales person that my electric water heater was 2000W and consumed a lot of my electricity bill anf if this would do more. at which point I was directed to the store manager that the input is only around 50 W..the output was 3600 W.

So again i asked him very innocently if I could connect my electric heater to the HT receiver and get water heated for just 50 W.

to cut a long story short I did receive a long eplanation of how "Sound Watts" are different from "Current Watts" ..and finally figured out that the 6400 W was 6 speakers x 60 W p channel..which is all that i really wanted to know .

LMAO!!!!
Thank God the guy at least knew the diff bet "sound Watts" & "current Watts".
Most of the refailers hardly know anything abt audio basics.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Arj, why not just buy a simple 1000W minicompo (like my bro's Sony DVD one). It will have all you want. Debu might be right about the reliability, but at that price if it last 7yrs, that's more than enough! The sound's good enough for pop/ rock too. But, don't try classical 1000W ? :?

Didn't want the music to rock the bed.

Arj Said :

I walked into a sony star to ask about some LCDs and they had an HT so I casually aksed the rating of the slim HT amplifier. i was told 3600 W !! so i very "innocently" asked the sales person that my electric water heater was 2000W and consumed a lot of my electricity bill anf if this would do more. at which point I was directed to the store manager that the input is only around 50 W..the output was 3600 W. So again i asked him very innocently if I could connect my electric heater to the HT receiver and get water heated for just 50 W. to cut a long story short I did receive a long eplanation of how "Sound Watts" are different from "Current Watts" ..and finally figured out that the 6400 W was 6 speakers x 60 W p channel..which is all that i really wanted to know .

VERY well put.

On The Other hand .... This could have solved our country's power crisis, and the need for Nuclear Power Plants ... and our govt falling ....

Shoot !

Arj schrieb:

Amp_Nut schrieb: [ 1000W ? :? I walked into a sony star to ask about some LCDs and they had an HT so I casually aksed the rating of the slim HT amplifier. i was told 3600 W !! so i very "innocently" asked the sales person that my electric water heater was 2000W and consumed a lot of my electricity bill anf if this would do more. at which point I was directed to the store manager that the input is only around 50 W..the output was 3600 W. So again i asked him very innocently if I could connect my electric heater to the HT receiver and get water heated for just 50 W. to cut a long story short I did receive a long eplanation of how "Sound Watts" are different from "Current Watts" ..and finally figured out that the 6400 W was 6 speakers x 60 W p channel..which is all that i really wanted to know .

BTW, our Sony mini-compo is marketed as 2200W PMPO. As per the manual, it puts out 100W x 2 maximum. Public likes big numbers! No dealer dare speak the truth When I told my friends, I had bought a 60W system, they thought I had picked up a transistor radio. Even TVs are 500 to 1000W nowadays.

Just a warning. The 100W x 2 maximum of a mini-compo is exaggerated. The actual RMS would be just around 30 or 40W x 2. So, do be careful. In the example you quoted above, 60W x 6 is crazy powerful and would require a huge amplifier. The weight would need to be 15kg+ for a class AB amp. Fairly sure, it wouln't be more than 25 x 6 RMS.

Neutral schrieb:

Just a warning. The 100W x 2 maximum of a mini-compo is exaggerated. The actual RMS would be just around 30 or 40W x 2. So, do be careful. In the example you quoted above, 60W x 6 is crazy powerful and would require a huge amplifier. The weight would need to be 15kg+ for a class AB amp. Fairly sure, it wouln't be more than 25 x 6 RMS.

I know I have a 60 x 5 HT by Onkyo and that is big enough the THD for this above 20W might make an interesting reading.

Arj schrieb:

Neutral schrieb: Just a warning. The 100W x 2 maximum of a mini-compo is exaggerated. The actual RMS would be just around 30 or 40W x 2. So, do be careful. In the example you quoted above, 60W x 6 is crazy powerful and would require a huge amplifier. The weight would need to be 15kg+ for a class AB amp. Fairly sure, it wouln't be more than 25 x 6 RMS. I know I have a 60 x 5 HT by Onkyo and that is big enough the THD for this above 20W might make an interesting reading.

Typically, THD of 10% or even 20% is the level at which the peak power is stated for all mass consumer electronics. Whereas, it is less than 0.1% for our hifi amps. We are privileged.

Typically, THD of 10% or even 20% is the level at which the peak power is stated for all mass consumer electronics.

IMHO, there is NO such thing as "Peak Power"

This plastic combos wil NEVER deliver 2000Watts or whatever, for even 1/1000 of a microsecond into 4 ohms. Physics and ohms law GUARANTEES that.

Cant change the basis laws of Physics.

Makes me wanna break into a sermon on "What IS a Watt ( of amplifier ) Power "

It is ILLEGAL to state / advertise any amplifier power except RMS power in the US (by the FCC).

ACTUALLY, even the term RMS power is mathematically in-correct, as used for amplifier power. "MEAN POWER" is probably the 'correct' term....

you are right about peak power. thats the reason for the "PMPO"
so if there are 6 drivers in the 2 speakers each capable of 50 W of Peak but Highly distorted power above which the speaker will get destroyed then the PMPO output is 3000.

My Crib with "PMPO" is at the Amplifier end...

The amp will just not deliver the claimed power, even in a brief burst, because there will not be enough Voltage at the amp output ( ie the speaker terminals) to pump the required current to meet the (mathematically or imaginatively ) conjured PMPO rating

Arj schrieb:

so if there are 6 drivers in the 2 speakers each capable of 50 W of Peak but Highly distorted power above which the speaker will get destroyed then the PMPO output is 3000.

Its still coming out to be 300 watts not 3000

oops thats true..I thought I had worked that one out well

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Typically, THD of 10% or even 20% is the level at which the peak power is stated for all mass consumer electronics. IMHO, there is NO such thing as "Peak Power" This plastic combos wil NEVER deliver 2000Watts or whatever, for even 1/1000 of a microsecond into 4 ohms. Physics and ohms law GUARANTEES that. Cant change the basis laws of Physics. Makes me wanna break into a sermon on "What IS a Watt ( of amplifier ) Power " It is ILLEGAL to state / advertise any amplifier power except RMS power in the US (by the FCC). ACTUALLY, even the term RMS power is mathematically in-correct, as used for amplifier power. "MEAN POWER" is probably the 'correct' term....

AmpNutji,
You misunderstood me.
So I will state the facts again:
My brother bought a high-end Sony minicompo for Rs 20,000. It has an advertised PMPO of 2200W. However, on checking the manual, I discovered that the claimed power output is 100W x 2 maximum. The input power for the entire device (DVD player, tape decks, radio, airport lights, preamp, and power amp) is just 230W. [If my physics knowledge is correct, amp efficiency peaks at just 75%. ]

What I was pointing out to Arj is that the 100W x 2 maximum stated in the manual is definitely not honest. In my layman language, I considered it to be a peak power, rather than a continuous power. In contrast, my Pulz power amp is stated as 60W x 2 and draws upto 300W from the mains. This is honest. No way, a minicompo would deliver more power than a dedicated power amp! As I mentioned, the power output in consumer electronics is always stated at insane levels of distortion (10% to 20%).

PMPO is completely meaningless, but unlike the US, is very commonly used (misused) in India to fool the lay public.

My sad observation is that even high-end HTs state power in maximum terms. I have come across Yamaha HT receivers promising 130W x 6. How can that be true, when our high-power stereo amps never offer more than 100W/ch?

Do explain the difference between RMS and Mean for us audiophiles.

Neutralji,

let me clarify that my message and comments were Certainly not pointed at you, but an attempt to highlight ( to newbies on the forum ) that PMPO is meaningless.

It seems that most forum members ARE well informed, and that is a good thing.

I have come across Yamaha HT receivers promising 130W x 6.

No problem with that. Can be achieved without in-ordinate effort. From the little that I have read, SONY for example have launched a range of HT receivers, using High Efficiency Amplifier modules, that apparently also sound good.

There are loop holes that may or may not be exploited by manufacturers, while quoting their specs.

As an example, will the HT receiver deliver its Full Power SIMILTANOUSLY to all channels ?

Will that Max Power to all Channels, delivered similtanously, also meet the distortion specs quoted ?

Will all the above be met, when the amplifier is at its Hottest !


For Audiophiles, there is No difference between RMS power and Mean Power.

What I wanted to convery is that for a Purely Mathematical point of view, ( and a formal definition ) the Power Referred to by technical boffins is Not an RMS Value.

Power is Voltage x Current.

RMS Voltage X RMS Current is NOT ( mathematically ) an RMS quantity.

The product of 2 RMS quantities is NOT an RMS quantity.

If you would like a more detailed explanation, I would be happy to provide ....

Cheers

Amp_Nut schrieb:

It seems that most forum members ARE well informed, and that is a good thing.

Thanks to members like you that take the trouble to explain things.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

From the little that I have read, SONY for example have launched a range of HT receivers, using High Efficiency Amplifier modules, that apparently also sound good.

Would these amps be high current too? Would they be able to drive 12" drivers like what I am currently listening too?

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Will all the above be met, when the amplifier is at its Hottest !

Can I take it that amps, unlike babes, perform worse when they are hotter. For such hot times, there's always protection.

Can I take it that amps, unlike babes, perform worse when they are hotter. For such hot times, there's always protection.

LMAO!!!
In the words of the old song,".....thats the way, aha, aha, I like it ,aha, aha...."!

Can anybody please share a review on Pioneer Entry level DVD player model DV400(HDMI). It's now available in Kolkata with the authorized dealer.

Regard

Sourav