Linn to stop producing CDPs !

It just may be arj....or linns cdp's may just not be selling the the numbers they want it to and try and point towards the market for a shutdown of a product line.

I do believe the cdp is a dying breed and blue ray players will be king even for high end audio in the future.
The sheer storage capacity of the medium !

Manek

Manek schrieb:

I do believe the cdp is a dying breed and blue ray players will be king even for high end audio in the future. The sheer storage capacity of the medium ! Manek

Unless they use another format other than the redbook what reasoning do they have for using BR discs ?
they are anyway Killing any cd customer base in the west by horribly overpriced CDs. in India at least most cd prices are reasonable.

Will we only have 128/256 kbps downloads for generic music in the future with some "Audiophile" recordings in HD format?

...and as per another discussion on AA, La Revue du Son is also to shut down. its apparently the oldest Hifi Mag in paris
is there any good news happening on the Hi Fi front which I seem to be missing out on ?

Manek schrieb:

It just may be arj....or linns cdp's may just not be selling the the numbers they want it to and try and point towards the market for a shutdown of a product line. Manek

Good one. I'm sure people are still buying CD Player to put to use thier CD Collection. I wonder whether Ayre's CDP sales are also down ....that would be worrying.

I do not think there is so much high quality stuff available for download. All that you get from Amazon.com is still MP3. Hi-defintion downloads (direct FLAC/WAV masters....from studio tapes) are still rare and not available so much.

Through out my life, i've bought only one Linn label record and it is probably restricted to a very small group within the wider audiophile community. I would assume that - sales of Linn record would be no measure.

I think hi-end sales is down, because there are not many new additions to the audiophile community. This i would think is because of the IPOD and other newer life-style devices (like those music servers). Higher sales of online music is probaly a side-effect.

Arj my gutt feel is that they will soon put high def audio onto the blue ray disk. It will be a diff format to redbook but I think it will come albeit in smaller quantities . Its the only way good quality audio will survive other than high res downloads.

Manek

hmmm. i guess i would prefer the High rez downloads..may just need to keep a backup of that in a media like blue ray discs

By that time hopefully Comrade Amp_nut would have finally discovered a good value for money HDD transport ...somehting we could all benefit from.
Afeter having 3 different devices ..i have kind of given up on it ...prefer making a good CD copy in a good media righ now.

Arj schrieb:

hmmm. i guess i would prefer the High rez downloads..may just need to keep a backup of that in a media like blue ray discs By that time hopefully Comrade Amp_nut would have finally discovered a good value for money HDD transport ...somehting we could all benefit from. Afeter having 3 different devices ..i have kind of given up on it ...prefer making a good CD copy in a good media righ now.

Hi Arj,

I think in future there will be no need for any backup even. Cloud-computing is the future. That means you will not even have to download your audio or video files and store them on a HDD, but just pay for the time you listen to music or watch a movie which will be all stored in the cloud.

Ivor Tiefenbrunn obviously was right when he predicted in the early 1990s (I think it was) that LP will outlive CD.

Regards,
Jochen

If storage is on a cloud then one would need to stream that data effectively and without delay or feature full downloads......i am thinking downloads will be order of the day first but then the problem with bandwidth at home arises, etc etc.

Cloud Computing future is currently very "cloudy" with a whole lot of security and other concerns about standards etc....

Even though its a favourite topic with the analysts and people/vendors use the term very often and loosely, it'll be a while.......for mainstream adoption. But some media company may just jump onto the band wagon very soon, who knows ?

But what do we do until then ? CD would live that long i would think.

Manek schrieb:

But what do we do until then ? CD would live that long i would think.

You are right Manek. I would suggest forget about streaming for the moment because it's still in an infant stage, use CD for day to day listening and celebrate music on vinyl rig like these "young" guys do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs1aUws0Lrs&feature=fvst

goolimangala schrieb:

Hi Arj, I think in future there will be no need for any backup even. Cloud-computing is the future. That means you will not even have to download your audio or video files and store them on a HDD, but just pay for the time you listen to music or watch a movie which will be all stored in the cloud. Ivor Tiefenbrunn obviously was right when he predicted in the early 1990s (I think it was) that LP will outlive CD. Regards, Jochen

true Jochen..but Cloud computing is on top of the "Hype Curve" now. may take anything ove 5 years before it is a practical medium...considering we have not yet mainstreamed the HDD playback..we are really far away...although the potential is shown

Funny part is Music is as popular as ever ..if not more..what we are concerned about is the future of the Format ! most people are quite happy with Mp3s. in fact i recenly met an old time music lover in germany...he had just converted his entire LP connection to MP3s and was happy about it. i did leva my pearls of wisdom with him but..


I think i will still be burning abny of my "Lossless" music in CDRs for some more time now

Manek schrieb:

Cloud Computing future is currently very "cloudy" with a whole lot of security and other concerns about standards etc.... Even though its a favourite topic with the analysts and people/vendors use the term very often and loosely, it'll be a while.......for mainstream adoption. But some media company may just jump onto the band wagon very soon, who knows ? But what do we do until then ? CD would live that long i would think.

just realised you had replied on the same tone i think CDs will be around for some more time...especially since many folks do have cd players And cd collections and cd writers..which is more than what was possible with LPs.. it is so easy to have a soft backup and keep burning CDrs if you do have a good source.

I have moved to 100 % computer;
My 808i.2 is only a back up - for CD's i.e.

Computer Audio - to my ears - sounds better - hence I changed. Besides, it is so damn convenient.

I still buy CD's - only source of music for me.
Picked up 16CD's on Saturday @ RH - EAC'ed them & spent 6 hours with music & beer - lovely !!!

Waiting for my new DAC to arrive - soon - I hope !!

Which one is that ? Are ytouy still using your Weiss ?

Which one is that ? Are ytouy still using your Weiss ?

The Weiss Minerva is extremly important.
I need that to convert 13944 - firewire to spdif [currently]
Without that my digital signal cannot get created.
You see, I do not use a sound card in my music server.
Very basic design & layout is my server - to keep it cool & silent.

The output from the mother board goes via firewire to my Weiss Minerva & I can use its D to A but it is not 'up to the mark' !! Still it will 'kill' most CD Players up to US $'s 5/- K for sure - no jokes.

However, I take a spdif out frm the WM to the 808i.2 for now.
When my new DAC arrives - I will take 2 outs for 24/192 resolution playback.
I will discuss that in a new thread - after it is received & installed by me.
1 month more. At least....sorry !

My favorite topic is back !
I had this gut feeling long back that Linn would stop its cd players but continue the LP playback devices. They jumped onto the “disc-less” bandwagon big time couple of years back.
I guess the “LP Player” has become more relevant now ! The LP may actually outlive the redbook cd.
Cloud computing and streaming the playback with streaming HD downloads may be embraced better by the music companies than HD downloads. The problem with legal HD download is that it will spawn number of illegal HD download sites. This could be one of the reasons why music companies will stay out of it.

streamed content may not be too difficult to "trap". But somehow paying to listen to music is different from Owning an album and i find it very difficult to get tuned to that concept...think ill buy/download all the CDs at the expense of any equipment upgrade now !

bhagwan69 schrieb:

[ The Weiss Minerva is extremly important. I need that to convert 13944 - firewire to spdif [currently] Without that my digital signal cannot get created. You see, I do not use a sound card in my music server. Very basic design & layout is my server - to keep it cool & silent.

Got it. i hear Weiss has brought about a cheaper version of their converter (without dac)

waiting to hear about your new Dac !

bhagwan69 schrieb:

I have moved to 100 % computer; My 808i.2 is only a back up - for CD's i.e. Computer Audio - to my ears - sounds better - hence I changed. Besides, it is so damn convenient. I still buy CD's - only source of music for me. Picked up 16CD's on Saturday @ RH - EAC'ed them & spent 6 hours with music & beer - lovely !!! Waiting for my new DAC to arrive - soon - I hope !!

Arj schrieb:

Linn Products has announced that it will cease production of its range of CD players from the start of 2010. Managing Director Gilad Tiefenbrun said Linn will concentrate instead on its DS digital music streaming products. “Our customers have fast recognized the limitations of CD players in the age of home networking,” said Tiefenbrun at a press conference in London’s Covent Garden. “CD players no longer belong in the specialist domain.” More Here Interesting discussionHere BTW I was in Stuttgart last week and as usual trundled off to a few CD shops...hardly any one around...and many cds on a "sale" so grabbed a few. But is it the beginning of the end ?

You know even utter skeptics like Naim are getting into this BIG time.

If the wonderful folk in this business had any sense, they would consolidate their R&D budgets and efforts to really,really make this work.

This is really the future and they MUST find a way to shape it.

Krish, couldnt aree with you more on the future.
today we have a confused "present" ..but much better than what it was a year back !.

from whatI cols read..the 2 main "Hi Fi" options are Firewire and Async USB as in both these cases the PC clock can be controlled by the Spdif convertor/DAC
Async USB is very complex and veryu few folks have got it right (Wavelenth and Empirical audio) and chanrge a Bomb for it
Firewire seems to be done currently well only by Weiss but M audio also seems to have got it.

One problem with Firewire is the actual Firewire chhip/ those by Via..whicha re more prevalent have a high droppage rate of signals. while the TI chip is good.

Eg I have an M audio Firewire Solo and it does not perform well primarily due to my firewire pCMCIA adaptor..while someone else who was using it calims that it is as good as his Esoteric if not better..he uses a Mac Mini

I am not much of a computer guy - do not know much;
sbxf from our forum has helped me with my computer audio & it is only because of his that I have taken it on;
But, my 2 tit bits - if I may....
Basically, it is all about set up.
Just like in audio - how you set up the cables & components & place the speakers - determines the final result, in the same manner, with computer audio - it is about set up & configuration & component matching.
If you get it right - boy it plays well.
So, just spend some time and work on it & the results will show.

An example was that my DAC in Amp Nut's place could not beat the Electrocompaniet CD Player & the same DAC plays so well in my place. SET UP !! That is all that matters....

..while someone else who was using it claims that it is as good as his Esoteric if not better..he uses a Mac Mini

Trust he is Using Amaara... not iTunes !

bhagwan69 schrieb:

An example was that my DAC in Amp Nut's place could not beat the Electrocompaniet CD Player & the same DAC plays so well in my place. SET UP !! That is all that matters.... :P

What was the transport at AN's place ?

Its an integrated CD player ( with SPDIF out also ):

Electrocompaniet EMC-1

I Use it with the 'Spider' clamp, which significantly improves the Sound quality.

This CD player uses the Phillips CD PRO Top loading drive unit

Its CERTAINLY not a piece of Esoteric equipment ...

The 'Transport' used with the Minerva DAC was my 24 inch iMac running Mac OX leopard & iTunes

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Its an integrated CD player ( with SPDIF out also ): Electrocompaniet EMC-1 I Use it with the 'Spider' clamp, which significantly improves the Sound quality. This CD player uses the Phillips CD PRO Top loading drive unit Its CERTAINLY not a piece of Esoteric equipment ...

The EMC-1 up is a good cd player - I have owned it - many years back;
However, it is 'dated'
Was a great player in its time.
It is 'still' a very great product to use as a transport.
I am not so sure - but it has a AES/EBU & a SPD/IF out I think.
Use the EMC-1 as a transport to feed an external DAC & you may have a great front end.

I have high regard for this machine. Made in Norway - I think..

Thanks for the Thumbs Up Bhagwan 69.

Yes, your memory is superb ! The EMC-1 has AES/EBU & SPD/IF

My thoughts concur with you on all counts, regarding the player's performance.

I had got a Theta Gen VIII DAC to audition. Ran it with the EMC-1 and my old Denon 2900 Universal player, both used as transports.

I thought I could save a packet by using the denon... Nah, the EMC-1 was STREETS ahead... even as a Transport..

I believe the EMC1 comes across so well as it is very well made mechanically and has a fully balanced circiuit . never understood on what DC coupled means though !

I guess Minerva would also be having an spdif input...did you try feeding the digital out from the EMC1 to the spdif input of the minerva ?

abhi.pani schrieb:

I guess Minerva would also be having an spdif input...did you try feeding the digital out from the EMC1 to the spdif input of the minerva ?

Hi AP !

That is possible;
But the purpose of a Minerva is to use a computer. Not use it as a DAC.
The Minerva has Toshlink in / spd/if in / aes/ebu in / firewire 13944 in & also has analogue rca & analogue xlr outs. There is also a spd/if out & aes/ebu out [digital]

However, its forte is to be used with a computer - smashing performance @ rather competative price - 5 K is list - available on our forum @ 125/- K [hardly used] !!

the weiss INT202 to be launched.
Only firewire to SPDIF conversion functions for around USD 1300

INT202 Firewire Interface

The INT202 is a small interface box for Firewire to AES/EBU and S/PDIF conversion. In addition the audio volume can be controlled in the digital domain via an infrared remote control unit. The INT202 finds its application in interfacing a PC or MAC computer to a D/A Converter unit. With the volume control feature it can also replace a preamplifier. The outputs can be operated in single wire up to 192 kHz sampling rate or in dual wire at the 176.4 / 192 kHz rates.

Features of the INT202:

* Two firewire sockets
* Can be powered from Firewire bus or from an optional power supply
* Two XLR output sockets
* Two RCA output sockets
* Operates up to 192kHz sampling rate
* Single or dual wire operation at sampling rates of 176.4 or 192 kHz
* Infrared remote control (optional) for volume
* Volume control is dithered to avoid quantization distortion

well done ARJ !

This is a device for all to get.

Make a 'silent' computer that has a firewire on its mother board. Stream to this device & then take it to your DAC.
It will bang the living daylights out of any Transport you could ever have purchased / used.
EAC all your CD's and listen to music in full 'shanti' !!
Trust me it is the way to go...

Given the fact that the Minerva is on offer for Rs 1.25L here, against a home demo, it (IMHO) make a Great deal, rather than the FireWire To SPDIF Converter, from the same company at US $ 1300 ( and the inevitable Customs Duty )

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Given the fact that the Minerva is on offer for Rs 1.25L here, against a home demo, it (IMHO) make a Great deal, rather than the FireWire To SPDIF Converter, from the same company at US $ 1300

The Weiss - as a stand alone DAC too is very nice;
Will hold its ground against many good cd players.
It is only when it gets pitted against top end much more expensive DAC's is it that it gets 'beaten'

Besides, the Minerva as it is can play HD & 24/178 tracks. This no CD Player can do. Ref Recordings / 2L etc.
They need to be heard to be believed.

went to planet M tore at brigade road today, compared to my recent German store experience of last week, we have
- better cds
- more people buying
- and were least 20% cheaper

Got myself the Beatles Mono Reissue set !! will spin it late night today

CD's are surely cheaper in India;
The problem is 'choice' & 'quality of pressing'

If, we were to get what we wnated & well presed, I would be really happy.

Bhagwan...all of them are Imports .. ironically of the 5 I bought other than the beatles set, 3 were actually german pressed .

And if there are any Beatles Fans BUY the Beatles set. the remaster is fantastic..no compression. the sound is relaxed and so real.in fact you dont notice that it is a Mono untill you think about it.