Power cables: A different view of on impact of power on components

bombaywalla schrieb:

msb1 schrieb: bhagwan69 schrieb: However, if you hear a change with the PLMM - God Help You !! You better be right! ;) You know that Bhagwan69's statement is conditional. The condition being that your system is able to resolve finer details of the music so that you can hear the mega impact of the TC PLMM PC! Bhagwan's system is superbly tuned & the electronics are of very fine calibre. The cables are top-notch as well. So, the PLMM PC has a dramatic effect. This does not apply universally to others' systems. Just FYI. FWIW. IMHO.

Sir, forget my set up, I / We did a 'comparo' between the Nordost Valhalla PC & a Transparent - Super PC [4th {or 3rd} from the top] at another friend / audiophiles place there were 3 of us present - none being 'concered parties'
[except the Super PC's owner] and the TC - Super was 'better' than the Nordost - Valhalla -

All said, the PC will only show its ability if the system has the potential to 'resolve'

High Octane Fuel in a Maruti Alto / Zen will not make the car perform better & it sure will not make the car go faster......

This is not the case for PC's but for all cables in general. Try to put an 'average' cable in a hi fidelity set up & the system will show you in 1 second what is going on................

msb1 schrieb:

bhagwan69 schrieb: However, if you hear a change with the PLMM - God Help You !! You better be right! ;)

Sir, what can I say ?? Maybe it works, maybe it does not !! You will have to experiment for yourself & find out !!

But, if you do go for it; Change all the cables, CD & Pre & Power. Then the full effect will be known & felt. IMHO

bombaywalla schrieb:

msb1 schrieb: bhagwan69 schrieb: However, if you hear a change with the PLMM - God Help You !! You better be right! ;) You know that Bhagwan69's statement is conditional. The condition being that your system is able to resolve finer details of the music so that you can hear the mega impact of the TC PLMM PC! Bhagwan's system is superbly tuned & the electronics are of very fine calibre. The cables are top-notch as well. So, the PLMM PC has a dramatic effect. This does not apply universally to others' systems. Just FYI. FWIW. IMHO.

Going to use it on my Sony ZXR-9000-AVI all in one system. Hope it works well..
Will let you know..!

MSB, from your system details, you seem to be using a Jon Risch filter. is it for your amp only or for your CDP and pre as well ?

also how are the Miras with the Electrocompaniet ?

Arj schrieb:

MSB, from your system details, you seem to be using a Jon Risch filter. is it for your amp only or for your CDP and pre as well ? also how are the Miras with the Electrocompaniet ?

JR Filter is used for all 3 but I have 2 dedicated mains lines with two seperate filter circuits - One for the CDP and one for the Pre/Power. I have just ordered a 'branded' power filter and hence the JR Filter will be retired.

I think the Mira sound good with the Electrocompaniet (I haven't heard them with anything else ).

Arj schrieb:

MSB, also how are the Miras with the Electrocompaniet ?

I personally like them a lot;
Had been privilaged to avail an audition in September, 2007 [I think - dates may be incorrect].

I suggest forum members from North India to make that trip to listen; should be interesting & informative.

On the topic of audition, have the western members [of our forum] listened to the Siltech as yet ? Opinions ?
Mumbai to Pune is a 1 day turn around. Please do write about it. Thanks.

superczar had qouted from another site :

That said, we offer the JREF million-dollar prize to – for example – Dave Clark, Editor of the audio review publication Positive Feedback Online, who provided the above rave review. If Mr. Clark should choose to apply for the prize, he would be unlike John Atkinson of Stereophile Magazine – see randi.org/jr/121004science.html#11 – who made great noises about being ready to snap up the million, then got distracted by things such as gullible readers who accepted his claimed abilities, and backed out. But we’ll see…

Seems Randi has twisted and turned many of the facts, on this topic and challenge. If anything, Randi has run away with his tail between his legs and not Stereophile.

VERY informative read in the Feb 2008 Stereophile. ( Analog Corner - pages 24, 26, 228,29, 31, 33 )

Some points :

1. The Challenge was taken up by Michael Fremer not S'phile Editor John Atkinson.

2. Randi wanted the A-B-X comparision with Pear Audio's Anjous.

Pear declined .

3. Michael Fremer offered to use the Cables he uses at home - the TARA Labs Omegas.

Randi Refused ...

Then posted messages saying he was admitted to Hospital, and never later accepted MF's challenge...

FOund a couple of other interesting reads:

http://www.nytimes.c...articles/23down.html

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

Nice articles Sir;

Yesterday - Amp Nut was over for a small listening session !!

I did a cable swap - TA PLMM & Jorma Design. The results were 'interesting'. I will write about it, but I shall wait for Amp Nut to 'take the lead'

Thanks.

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Nice articles Sir; Yesterday - Amp Nut was over for a small listening session !! I did a cable swap - TA PLMM & Jorma Design. The results were 'interesting'. I will write about it, but I shall wait for Amp Nut to 'take the lead' Thanks.

Amp_Nut,
please do take the lead & give us your take on these interesting results from PC swapping.

Thanks for the clearance, Bhagwan69. I usually refrain from public comments on an individual's system, unless I know its OK with that person...

I even know of a person with a High End system who refuses to join the forum or have any forum members over to his place, because he does not want his system written about ..

Also, I think it is appropriate that I declare that I have been a firm believer that Power Cords DO affect the system sound... for systems that are revealing enough.

I have experimented with CAT-5 & Coax Cable Power Cords and currently use the Top-Of-The Line (?) Cardas Power Cord with my CD player and "Audio Power' cable with my Valve amplifier...

All that 'confessed', now about my listen to Bhagwan's system.



I have had the pleasure to listen to Bhagwan's system on many occasions and in its many Avtaars, since Bhagwan is very adventerous, and often changes components.

When I first got to know bhagwan about 2 years ago, my aim was to 'learn' what the Golden Ears listen to to gauge a system ( and cultivate my own ears to Golden Ears ) I am indebted to Bhagwan69 for the fact that he encouraged me to respect my audio preferences, and not be swayed by what others feel is the "Correct" sound. After all, its for MY enjoyment. That ofcourse does Not mean that I dont cultivate more acute listning capabilities along the lines of what I like to hear...



THE LISTNING

When I first walked into his room, the system sounded Ordinary, playing Dire Straits. A new Pair of TIDAL Speakers with a Huge ( 30 mm ) Diamond Teweeter were installed. His Gryphon Adagio CD player had been replaced by ( a lower quality, on standby duty ) Metronome CD Player. ( The Metronone itself is Pretty much a GREAT player, if not up to Adagio Standards )

I heard the 2 Way TIDAL speakers upfront, about 6 inches away away from the drivers, and the 2 drivers just did not sound like they had integrated ( played as one ).

Even about 3 feet way from the speakers, the drivers did not integrate.

I went over to the listning position. It sounded better ... no wait, that is MUCH better, No wait again, MUCH MUCH better .... Actually GREAT !

However, the speakers and the system actually did not draw attention to themselves or present the music in a phenominal manner. But the more I listened carefully, the More the speakers DREW me INTO the music.

These are SERIOUS Speakers... Not In-Yr-Face Hi Fi, but just VERY relealing, yet Very Musical.

I am an Imaging freak, and the speakers delivered ... They COMPLETELY dissappeared, in the listning position. Forget the drivers not intergrating, the spekers DISAPPEARED.

The image was DEEP, Rock Steady and Precise. Some Instruments were playing 10 feet behind the speakers, and well behind the rear wall. All this presented very naturally, without etch or an Exagerated sound stage.

The bass was another interesting aspect... the Bass was all there, with Great Resolution, and Very presice Bass imaging. Also, there was ZERO bass overhang that often muddles up sound and frequencies in the lower mid bass and midrange. The sound was Crystal clear, and seemless throughout.

But these were SERIOUS speakers, asking for SERIOUS attention. Not something that will throw impressive sounds at you, while you pop food in yr mouth. ( No I did NOT have a drink untill most of the listning was done, and Bhagwan WAS a generous host with the food )

Clearly, this was the best that i have heard Bhawan's system sound, in the past 2 years.

Then he changed the CD Player's Power Cord from the Transparent Audio ( to whatever else, it does not matter )



About 10 seconds into the audition with the other PC, and I was ready to leave. I wanted to cherish what I had heard with the Transparent Audio power cords, and keep that memory with me, and know that it was not just a dream.

The Other Power Cord ( Just 1 Cord change) COLLAPSED the entire system. The atriculate bass, was muddy, and affecting the voice, the system sounded Lumpy... the magic was gone.

Crazy as it may sound, the US $ 1000 investment on that 1 Power Cord was the best Upgrade in the system. Infact, if that cord can do the same in my humble system, I will BUY IT, even though it costs as much as my Integrated amplifier !

Randi, if you got the balls, put yr US $ 1 million on the table, I am comming to pick it up, in a blind listning test !

Thank you Sir !

Nice 'report' !!

I could never write so eloquently........



Just some small facts :-

The Metronome CD Player is the T-1i [Black] 2 box CD Player - France [Much more expensive than the Gryphon Adagio - Almost 100 % more - 15/- K US $'s is the List]

The 'Other Power Cord' was from Sweden - Jorma Design - A respectable cable maker. At least I liked it a lot. Used it for 3 + Years.......

Crazy as it may sound, the US $ 1000 investment on that 1 Power Cord was the best Upgrade in the system. Infact, if that cord can do the same in my humble system, I will BUY IT, even though it costs as much as my Integrated amplifier !

Sir, small correction; The List price of the TA - PLMM - US $'s 1,995/-

Amp_nut ji

I recently read an interesting article on something called
"experimenter expectancy"

It has been universally recognised for many years in experimental psychology, particularly in experiments about perception, that people tend to perceive what they want to perceive. This is often called the 'experimenter expectancy' effect; it is more subtle and insidious than it sounds, and the history of science is littered with the wrecked careers of those who failed to guard against it. Such self-deception has most often occurred in fields like biology, where although the raw data may be numerical, there is no real mathematical theory to check it against.

Even though I am not saying the difference that you heard (or perceived) stemmed out of this

Again, I may be prone to the above problem because if I were to do a power cable test, there is a strong likelihood I'll not hear any difference even if some existed

Now having said that, what possible effect 2 metres of flexible cable can have to counteract the kilometres of power company's wiring ...

The RF filter perhaps? but anything else?

superczar schrieb:

Now having said that, what possible effect 2 metres of flexible cable can have to counteract the kilometres of power company's wiring ...

superczar, you obviously have not read the links i have posted .. http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=cables&m=82423

your question will be answered..How can you learn if you dont read (Just kidding !)

Am pasting the relevant part below

So what matters from a local perspective, that is, what is relevant AT YOUR HOUSE, is that there is a step-down transformer outside your house that is the local low impedance source for the AC power, and it is this low impedance step-down transformer source that is actually the 'beginning' of the AC power chain AS FAR AS YOU IN YOUR HOUSE ARE CONCERNED. The wires run from the house panel to the transformer on the pole are typically much larger than the house wiring, and are of a reasonably low inductance geometry considering that they have not been optimized for this. So the limiting factor for power delivery to your audio system tends to begin right at the breaker panel and is primarily concerned with the length of romex that exists, and with how many wall outlet push-in connectors it has passed through on the way to your audio system wall outlet, with some slight extension of the limitations out to the local step-down transformer. This of course, should illustrate why the myth of "miles and miles" of power lines is just that, a myth born out of ignorance of the actual situation, and the oft repeated mistatements of some who have a hard time actually thinking about AC power issues, and what is going on. This latter info rounds out some of the many reasons that AC power cords can make an audible difference.

what possible effect 2 metres of flexible cable can have to counteract the kilometres of power company's wiring ... The RF filter perhaps? but anything else?

There is no convincing answer to that ... yet.

But that does not rule out the existance of the fact...

Galilio said that the Earth Revolved around the Sun, and not the Sun around the Earth. he said this based on what he observed, and he had the conviction tio say it against all odds.....

Sadly for him, the "Proof" came LONG after his life span. ......( seeing was not enough proof then, just as Hearing is not enough proof today ! )

Music is indeed an art and the nuances of music cannot be explained by science

But audio reproduction was created by science...wasn't it?

Anyway, I am guesing that if a PC can help cleaning and shaping the (obviously) impure sinewave 220V AC supply line, wouldn't it be a good idea to get hold of a pure sinewave power supply with a normal good grade power cable instead of pairing a bad power supply (from your electricity company) with a very high grade PC

http://www.kojo-seiko.co.jp/m1000/m1000.html

Generating good quality and QUANTITY of sine wave is not an easy task. Some cos are offering such solutions and they do work, my experience is only with a small power source for my turnatable motor.

How the cable changes the sound ? a million dollar question that can only be answered when we fully learn how and what people hear/see add to that what signal processing takes place inside ones brain !!

One has to keep ears and eyes open, experience many systems, good ones and bad ones with an open mind. In the end you will be left with a lot of questions for which scientific explanations cannot be found as on date

Anil

1. I completely agree with ani.


2. I would like to also give another audiophile analogy, on what cannot be quantified 'scientifically' but is still Very Much in existance.

Stereo SOUND STAGING

Many 'Audiophile' have never heard it. and yes, it does require a certain calibre of system, to reproduce a decent sound stage.

Yet there is NOT A SINGLE technical parameter that can be used to measure and objectively state, quantify or even 'prove' the existence of o sound stage.

Ofcourse there is this Incredibly complex instrument, which does dectect a sound stage


The Human Ear.

Just because we are born with it, and it came free, lets not ignore it ...

Amp_Nut schrieb:

1. Stereo SOUND STAGING Many 'Audiophile' have never heard it. and yes, it does require a certain calibre of system, to reproduce a decent sound stage. Yet there is NOT A SINGLE technical parameter that can be used to measure and objectively state, quantify or even 'prove' the existence of o sound stage.

Lovely Example.

I can only offer a solution - that comes to my mind. My doors are open. Come One / Come All. Listen, explore and decide for ones own self.
If you 'hear' a difference it 'exists' if you do not, even better, at least you know you tried !!!

Love & Peace

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Ofcourse there is this Incredibly complex instrument, which does dectect a sound stage The Human Ear. Just because we are born with it, and it came free, lets not ignore it ... :prost

WOAH!!

Abhiji - What have you to say ?
More than :-

WOAH!!

Any experiance with power cords ? Have you 'heard' a differance ? Opinion ?
Inputs would be appreciated;

Bhagwan-ji, would have loved to drop in if work were to take me visitng Bombay

Amp_Nut, Actually Soundstaging is easily explained scientifically...

More in-depth analysis can be found, but here is the basic explanation from wikipedia

Binaural cues Binaural localization relies on the comparison of auditory input from two separate detectors. Therefore, most auditory systems feature two ears, one on each side of the head. The primary biological binaural cue is the split-second delay between the time when sound from a single source reaches the near ear and when it reaches the far ear. This is often technically referred to as the "interaural time difference" (ITD). ITDmax = 0.63 ms. Another binaural cue, less significant in ground dwelling animals, is the reduction in loudness when the sound reaches the far ear, or the "interaural amplitude difference" (IAD) or (ILD) as "interaural level difference". This is also referred to as the frequency dependent "interaural level difference" (ILD) (or "interaural intensity difference" (IID)). Our eardrums are only sensitive to the sound pressure level differences. Note that these cues will only aid in localizing the sound source's azimuth (the angle between the source and the sagittal plane), not its elevation (the angle between the source and the horizontal plane through both ears), unless the two detectors are positioned at different heights in addition to being separated in the horizontal plane. In animals, however, rough elevation information is gained simply by tilting the head, provided that the sound lasts long enough to complete the movement. This explains the innate behavior of cocking the head to one side when trying to localize a sound precisely. To get instantaneous localization in more than two dimensions from time-difference or amplitude-difference cues requires more than two detectors. However, many animals have quite complex variations in the degree of attenuation of a sound receives in travelling from the source to the eardrum: there are variations in the frequency-dependent attenuation with both azimuthal angle and elevation. These can be summarised in the head-related transfer function, or HRTF. As a result, where the sound is wideband (that is, has its energy spread over the audible spectrum), it is possible for an animal to estimate both angle and elevation simultaneously without tilting its head. Of course, additional information can be found by moving the head, so that the HRTF for both ears changes in a way known (implicitly!) by the animal. In vertebrates, inter-aural time differences are known to be calculated in the superior olivary nucleus of the brainstem. According to Jeffress[1], this calculation relies on delay lines: neurons in the superior olive which accept innervation from each ear with different connecting axon lengths. Some cells are more directly connected to one ear than the other, thus they are specific for a particular inter-aural time difference. This theory is equivalent to the mathematical procedure of cross-correlation. However, because Jeffress' theory is unable to account for the precedence effect, in which only the first of multiple identical sounds is used to determine the sounds' location (thus avoiding confusion caused by echoes), it cannot be entirely correct, as pointed out by Gaskell[2]. The tiny parasitic fly Ormia ochracea has become a model organism in sound localization experiments because of its unique ear. The animal is too small for the time difference of sound arriving at the two ears to be calculated in the usual way, yet it can determine the direction of sound sources with exquisite precision. The tympanic membranes of opposite ears are directly connected mechanically, allowing resolution of nanosecond time differences[3] [4] and requiring a new neural coding strategy.[5] Ho[6] showed that the coupled-eardrum system in frogs can produce increased interaural vibration disparities when only small arrival time and intensity differences were available to the animal’s head. Efforts to build directional microphones based on the coupled-eardrum structure are underway. Distance cues Neither inter-aural time differences nor monaural filtering information provides good distance localization. Distance can theoretically be approximated through inter-aural amplitude differences or by comparing the relative head-related filtering in each ear: a combination of binaural and filtering information. The most direct cue to distance is sound amplitude, which decays with increasing distance. However, this is not a reliable cue, because in general it is not known how strong the sound source is. In case of familiar sounds, such as speech, there is an implicit knowledge of how strong the sound source should be, which enables a rough distance judgment to be made. In general, humans are best at judging sound source azimuth, then elevation, and worst at judging distance. Source distance is qualitatively obvious to a human observer when a sound is extremely close (the mosquito in the ear effect), or when sound is echoed by large structures in the environment (such as walls and ceiling). Such echoes provide reasonable cues to the distance of a sound source, in particular because the strength of echoes does not depend on the distance of the source, while the strength of the sound that arrives directly from the sound source becomes weaker with distance. As a result, the ratio of direct-to-echo strength alters the quality of the sound in such a way to which humans are sensitive. In this way consistent, although not very accurate, distance judgments are possible. This method generally fails outdoors, due to a lack of echoes. Still, there are a number of outdoor environments that also generate strong, discrete echoes, such as mountains. On the other hand, distance evaluation outdoors is largely based on the received timbre of sound: short soundwaves (high-pitched sounds) die out sooner, due to their relatively smaller kinetic energy, and thus distant sounds appear duller than normal (lacking in treble).

Can be explained ... and all explanations are Theories ... subject to dispute, like the Power Cord discussion.

SOUND STAGING cannot be quatified, or an electrical Go No go test provided that the speakers ( or the entire room + System) will sound stage ?

[quote="superczar"]Bhagwan-ji, would have loved to drop in if work were to take me visitng Bombay

Amp_Nut, Actually Soundstaging is easily explained scientifically...

More in-depth analysis can be found, but here is the basic explanation from wikipedia

[quote]
has been quoted before..and I read it in Robert Harleys book about jitter. It was experienced by audiophiles before it was " discovered " in temrs of "differences" between digital cables.
at that time sceptics laughed it off saying there cannot be a difference in this because in the end the signal is digital and hence has to be accurate. today it is a known, accepted and measured phenomena.

maybe i is just a matter of time before we reach that in power chords as well.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

SOUND STAGING cannot be quatified, or an electrical Go No go test provided that the speakers ( or the entire room + System) will sound stage ? :(

I guess it is one of those which can be explained but cannot be measured !

Arj schrieb:

I guess it is one of those which can be explained but cannot be measured !

Yes. Hearing is a sense like smell or taste, neither of which can be measured in absolute terms but definitely explained.

IMHO to hear a difference you must a) have a setup that can reproduce the differences and b) know what you are looking (listening) for and c) your hearing must be tuned to that level. Much like most people will not be able to tell the difference between two good wines or malts, but the difference is definitely there and recognizable.

Ah, good analogy MSB, good wine and cigars. Those not exposed to such luxuries can only see them as extravagances of rich.

Are they essential to enjoy ones life ?

Who am I to ask ? that is my opinion others may disagree

Is anything 'essential' to enjoy one's life? This is not about what's essential but a hobby, passion or whatever you call it - To each his own!

A good single malt can easily be distinguished from a regular one

Within good single malts, the taste of a person would determine his/her preference..some like it peaty, some light

The single malt analogy can be applied to an amp, a speaker too, but not cables...

The reason why their flavor /taste differ is logically explained, and the taste difference can be discerned by even laymen..a layman perhaps may not be able to describe the exact difference, but there is no way a person with even the most basic taste buds will not be able to tell the quality difference between a 25 year old Talisker and a McDowell single malt

Can the same be said about cables?

If a lay man can hear and perceive the difference ..yes

The end result of malt/grain or any other alcohol is same

In case of cables you hear the same music but it differs in its presentation and presentation is what we all enjoy the most.

I disagree. Many ppl can tell the difference between 2 vastly different kinds of whiskeys but not everyone can tell the difference between 2 same malts or wines, with say different vintages (10yr / 12 yr). That is an acquired ability.

Cables definitely make a difference and this difference gets more obvious when your hearing is atuned to it and your setup is able to reveal those differences.

Have you ever actually done an A/B/C comparison? Bhagwan has invited you, so the next time you're in Mumbai go over and listen. Or if you're in the North, come to Amritsar and I will be glad to prove it to you.

msb1 schrieb:

Cables definitely make a difference and this difference gets more obvious when your hearing is atuned to it and your setup is able to reveal those differences. Have you ever actually done an A/B/C comparison?

Well put sir;

Cable Differerence
Hearing Ability - of the audiophile
Resolution Ability - of the set up

Listen to a 6/10 or a 7/10 set up [generally] & try cable change. PC's in the case we are discussing; You will surely 'hear' a difference !! Better or Worse, is a personal call !!

p.s. Sir that 25 year old Talisker I would love to drink;
If you have and can share, trust me, I will 'fly' to Bangalore [or where ever you are] to spend an evening with you so as to 'sample' some of the 'divine nectre' !!!!

ani schrieb:

If a lay man can hear and perceive the difference ..yes The end result of malt/grain or any other alcohol is same

how true and apt Anil ..
Having spent some time in france had the occassion to spend some time with the french most of whom have an understanding of wines. As a first time gulper of wine the different tastes and aftertastes in the front and the back of the tongue as well as in the throat and its permutations always made me feel they were totally phsycological...until i learnt to feel them too although still cannot articulate them
(Actually the learning experience is much more difficult here as after a couple of sips the state of mind is in a different "level" )

It is cheaper to experiment with Talisker 25 yrs old than with PLMM !! Provided they have stock of it

ani schrieb:

It is cheaper to experiment with Talisker 25 yrs old than with PLMM !! Provided they have stock of it :)

Aah..but once you drink it, its Gone Gone Gone...

with the cable u can sell it or use it forever

In the end the cable is an insurable asset with some Liquidity built in..while the drink is All liquid (no tee;) )

superczar schrieb:

This by the way is from James Randi who I guess most of us have heard of...if not:

another view of it from Fremer !
http://www.stereophile.com/thinkpieces/021708swiftboat/

Hi Arj,

Thanks for the link.

Guys this is a MUST Read for all ( Including superczar ).

This is what I was referring to, when I had posted :

Seems Randi has twisted and turned many of the facts, on this topic and challenge. If anything, Randi has run away with his tail between his legs and not Stereophile. VERY informative read in the Feb 2008 Stereophile. ( Analog Corner - pages 24, 26, 228,29, 31, 33 ) Some points : 1. The Challenge was taken up by Michael Fremer not S'phile Editor John Atkinson. 2. Randi wanted the A-B-X comparision with Pear Audio's Anjous. Pear declined . 3. Michael Fremer offered to use the Cables he uses at home - the TARA Labs Omegas. Randi Refused ... Then posted messages saying he was admitted to Hospital, and never later accepted MF's challenge...

ani schrieb:

It is cheaper to experiment with Talisker 25 yrs old than with PLMM !! Provided they have stock of it :)

Maybe, but the PLMM I have - 3 of them - The Talisker 25 I have not had the pleasure of tasting;;; 18 is the max I have tasted & 12 I own [have 2 bottles].

bhagwan69 schrieb:

18 is the max I have tasted & 12 I own [have 2 bottles]. :*

Sir, I couldn't resist but ask: Does the difference between the PLMM and other's vary if you've drunk 18 or 12?

I will stock up accordingly!

Nice one Sir !!

Sir, I couldn't resist but ask: Does the difference between the PLMM and other's vary if you've drunk 18 or 12? I will stock up accordingly

Trust me, no alcohol was consumed - rather not needed. The difference is so apparent; it is known in less than 10 seconds.
I have not tested the PLMM with the ones lower down the chain from Transparent - so I cannot comment on that.

I did the test with vdH [van den hul] & Jorma Design.
No Brainer !!!

msb1 schrieb:

I disagree. Many ppl can tell the difference between 2 vastly different kinds of whiskeys but not everyone can tell the difference between 2 same malts or wines, with say different vintages (10yr / 12 yr). That is an acquired ability. Cables definitely make a difference and this difference gets more obvious when your hearing is atuned to it and your setup is able to reveal those differences. Have you ever actually done an A/B/C comparison? Bhagwan has invited you, so the next time you're in Mumbai go over and listen. Or if you're in the North, come to Amritsar and I will be glad to prove it to you.

Hi MSB1,
I'm good friends with Bhagwan & also have my home in BOM not very far from where Bhagwan lives.
However, actually, I hail from the state that you live in & Amritsar happpens to be where my ancestral home is post-Partition.
The next time I visit BOM, I will make an effort to visit Harminder Sahibji to matha-takko & will also try to visit you to audition your system. I would love to hear your Rockport speakers.

superczar schrieb:

The reason why their flavor /taste differ is logically explained, and the taste difference can be discerned by even laymen..a layman perhaps may not be able to describe the exact difference, but there is no way a person with even the most basic taste buds will not be able to tell the quality difference between a 25 year old Talisker and a McDowell single malt Can the same be said about cables?

I believe that it can be said.

The reason that the taste of food is more easily discerned by all & sundry is that people eat food atleast 3 times a day for their entire life-span. That's HELL OF A LOT OF TRAINING for the taste buds to recognize & distinguish good, better & best tasting foods. A human-being does not have to be very old to distinguish food taste - one has to look at a 4-5 month old baby starting to eat semi-solid foods!

Now, in comparison, how much training does the human ear get distinguishing the nuances of music?
MOST PEOPLE WHO LISTEN TO MUSIC do just that, they LISTEN; they do not HEAR! hence the subtlties escape them & they average out the music experience between 2 A/B sessions & conclude that practically nothing changed.

The next you listen to music, ask yourself what is the objective of that listening session:
* is it to kill an afternoon while you have feet up on the ottoman listening to some melifluous tunes while your minds wanders?
* is it to provide background music while you surf the net/read the newspaper/chat w/ your spouse, etc?
* is it to provide stress relief from work - so you are shedding the office events while your body & mind relax to the music?
* OR, is it to actually to intently listen to how the instruments sound, how the voice sounds, whether the sound-stage can paint an image of where the performers are & how they are playing their resp instruments, etc?

if your objective is one of the 1st 3, you are probably correct - the PC upgrade/swap is of little value to you.
If your objective is the 4th one, 10 seconds will be too much time needed by to distinguish a change in sound - you need just a few commencing notes to let you.

The question for you is: do you listen? or do you hear?

Bobbaywalla - Well put !!!

'Serious Listening Sessions' can be very very 'taxing'
That is why, each time I go to an Audio Show, I get too tired by the end of the day. Full concentration listening is rather draining.

Casual Listening is what most persons do, hence the differences cannot be heard by them. More often people do not know what it is they are looking for ? The Tone, The Layer, The Placement [of the person], The Instrument Size, Individual / Instrument Placement etc.
Auditioning can be made into a serious business.
However, one needs to spend time, travel, listen to various set ups, interact with others, keep an open mind etc. etc.

Bombaywalla, very well put. Will mark this as one of your best posts
Regards
Anil

bombaywalla schrieb:

will also try to visit you to audition your system. I would love to hear your Rockport speakers. :D

Hi. You're most welcome. I'm from Bombay actually. Moved here 6-7 yrs ago.

bombaywalla schrieb:

[ The reason that the taste of food is more easily discerned by all & sundry is that people eat food atleast 3 times a day for their entire life-span. That's HELL OF A LOT OF TRAINING for the taste buds to recognize & distinguish good, better & best tasting foods. .... MOST PEOPLE WHO LISTEN TO MUSIC do just that, they LISTEN; they do not HEAR! hence the subtlties escape them

Sirji thats two emphatic proverbial nails on the head !


very very much quotable. really loved your comparison there are many people for whom food is just a form of energy and taste does not matter..only timing and quantity. then there are those who savour the experience

so much of difference in trying to just enjoy the music as well as do an analytical study. and unfortunately so many people miss out on the fact that BOTH can be done for a fulfilling experience

p.s. Sir that 25 year old Talisker I would love to drink; If you have and can share, trust me, I will 'fly' to Bangalore [or where ever you are] to spend an evening with you so as to 'sample' some of the 'divine nectre' !!!!

anytime sir...i am based out of chennai

Though I personally prefer Glenlivet 12 over the Talisker (thankfully )

anytime sir...i am based out of chennai Though I personally prefer Glenlivet 12 over the Talisker

We sure have 'opposite' tastes in Single Malts;

You have the Talisker 25 with you ?? Great;
I have never had a chance to have that. I will come to Chennai only for that - if the case be.
[I actually have family in Chennai & friends too !!!]
This trip I shall make........someday.

The Glenlivet 12 is not a SM I would pick - given a choice of 3 to 5 Malts.

Let us not hikack this topic of Power Cords into Single Malts. I know Amp Nut & me too have our 'divergent' preferances.

I like Ben Nevis & Balvenie New Wood 17 - just to name a few.

I hate Laphroaig & Glenfiddich & Isle of Jura etc.

I have a taste book for my drinking notes & I take my Single Malts very seriously. 3rd only after Audio & Watches.