Demo Rooms

True, but the respected and liked delares have a much better setup room (Electrades, KEC, soundscape, audionote, Xaudio etc etc).

But the above reason is not really very good. Only if one hs heard it in a good room woud the potntial of the system known. suppose the same guy hears another system in awell treated room and likes that, It is a lost sale as we allknowthe room playes a more importnt role than all other componts combined!

Arj,

The reason for this post is not about whether the dealer is friendly or not...

But from your response, i would understand that you are for an acoustically treated demo room. I would be glad if a majority says so...

I often comes across folks who complain about acoustically treated room. You will have to remember these are folks who are not as informed as you are....and feel very insecure that - it is the room that making the sound better and not the equipment themself(for example, an audiophile recently told me that one of the popluar showroon in Bangalore, uses hollow wooden floors to make the "bass" more prominent, so as to impress the customer....i have not heard it myself).

Infact in this very forum, people have complained about using expensive amplifiers and recommended using cheaper amplifiers for speaker demo(in my opinion these are also part of a good demo room). When i gave the same reason as you are giving now...it was not taken well.

Sometimes, these kind of feedback makes me wonder..

I hope we can restrict the discussion to audio...that is the real intent behind this post.

Cheers
Siva.

sivat schrieb:

Arj, The reason for this post is not about whether the dealer is friendly or not...

Agreed fully, have modified my post.. we certainly do not want a repeat of the other post

but coming back to the "Treated Room" it is a difficult problem. as

1. I would like to hear the equipment .. (I mean the speaker here) in the best possible setting to know its potential and make a final decision

2. I would like to hear it in the most "Realistic" room keeping into account aesthetics/WAF to see how it will perform in th most expected setting.

Since bot of the above is not "real-estatically possible" (Pun intended) for most. it is a difficult choice.

i would still prefer to hear the best possible and then demo it at my place with the dealer helping out with suggestions.

I recently bought the JMR twins from a dealer here. he knew very little english, but he demoed it in a decently treated room, then asked me details of my room and he helped me plan out the setting.
I bought it from him in spite of a better deal on the net as his value add was so much.
(Of course he tried to sell of the 3 times more expensive Trente which was good but not 3 times good !..an i dont begrudge him that !)

Hi,

To me the benefits to be derived from a dealer are basically twofold:

1. The dealer offers a choice of audio equipment to satisfy various levels of customer expectations, in both price and quality.

2. The dealer helps put together full music systems, the components of which work well together. This is the essense of a successful dealer. And this is a service which you cannot buy off the net.

Let me stress that last part some more, because it is often neglected in our search for better audio reproduction. We all tend to look at equipment piecemeal. However, I have seen and heard too many systems, some extremely expensive, which just did not satisfy me. All the sounds were there, but they remained sounds and did not coalesce to make music. And musical satisfaction was what I was seeking!

A good dealer will help you get to that musical satisfaction. Once he has convinced you of that, he will have gained your confidence and the sale.

To do that, a good dealer has to know his equipment. And to showcase it in the best way possible. And for that, you do need a well designed listening room. A room tastefully done as a residential living room. Close enough to what your own room could become!

Viren.

Arj schrieb:

1. I would like to hear the equipment .. (I mean the speaker here) in the best possible setting to know its potential and make a final decision 2. I would like to hear it in the most "Realistic" room keeping into account aesthetics/WAF to see how it will perform in th most expected setting. Since bot of the above is not "real-estatically possible" (Pun intended) for most. it is a difficult choice.

Arj,

You nailed right on the issue...

Cheers
Siva.

viren schrieb:

To do that, a good dealer has to know his equipment. And to showcase it in the best way possible. And for that, you do need a well designed listening room. A room tastefully done as a residential living room. Close enough to what your own room could become!

Viren,

So your suggestion is to - "Balance"...do not over-do the acoustic treatement, but at the same time try to make the "listening" room more like a "residential-living" room.

My only feedback is - you only do "so much" ... when you attempt to make the room more like residential living room. This is a problem, especially when you are demonstrating a speaker.

The other issue that you mentioned about the dealers ability to put together a well integrated system is a different but good point. Infact the dealer should actually visit customer's place and help with proper installation.

Cheers
Siva.

A practical way out is usually a Home demo..

Hear it in the best settings at the delaers, and the dealer helps out in the best setting possible at home (Obviously with a deposit /Advance). It is then that He crosses over from an ordinary reseller into a Value added reseller..

But whom to trust and whom not to (Dealers and customers alike) is going to be the subjective and often controversial choice !

Room is a musical instrument just like every other piece in the audio chain.

A moderate system in a decent room will sound generally better than a pricey system in a shabby room.

Analogy - Cars. Need to mate chassis to engine to tyres to bodyshell to controllers for max performance, then add interiors and frills for style and comfort.

I think a balance is best. Without stepping on the limits of decency, the dealer needs to find out as much as possible about the environment as possible, then make suggestions for the system. If possible suggest a home visit, it always makes it personal. I don't know how feasible this is - but it doesn't need to go as far as a home demo, which has trust issue on all counts.

About demo rooms, the room should be treated slightly, but not overtreated. It needs to reflect some realities. If most people have hard, reflective floors and walls, don't strive to create the perfect 'dead' room. Sure you'll make the sale, but also make countless support calls as to why the speakers just don't sound as good in the customers' home.

I was reading somewhere on this forum that someone was demoing bookshelves in a huge room. I can see the shock of the would-be buyer, seeing the huge excursions on the small bass units facing such massive air loads. I have also had the reverse experience, of being subjected to demos of large floorstanders inside a mousehole. We know what happens when that happens.

A smattering of furniture helps. I would think that a typical living room is a good target to aim for, but it is a moving target. As usual, good judgement is the issue. I would look at a comfortable environment with a well-defined sweet spot, and some control over frequencies at that spot, but not too much. Something which the consumer can install afterwards, with decent WAF and the dealer should instruct the consumer on the same.

good topic siva!


i agree with viren and clapton. i think a thoroughly professional room will be overkill and work adversely since the buyer would not be able to replicate it at home. but just enough room treatment to create a well defined sweet spot, soundstage, will demonstrate to the buyer how it can enhance the experience. this will work to greater effect since the buyer can actually replicate this cost-wise and without upsetting the existing room decor too much.

eric_clapton schrieb:

Room is a musical instrument just like every other piece in the audio chain. A moderate system in a decent room will sound generally better than a pricey system in a shabby room. Analogy - Cars. Need to mate chassis to engine to tyres to bodyshell to controllers for max performance, then add interiors and frills for style and comfort. I think a balance is best. Without stepping on the limits of decency, the dealer needs to find out as much as possible about the environment as possible, then make suggestions for the system. If possible suggest a home visit, it always makes it personal. I don't know how feasible this is - but it doesn't need to go as far as a home demo, which has trust issue on all counts. About demo rooms, the room should be treated slightly, but not overtreated. It needs to reflect some realities. If most people have hard, reflective floors and walls, don't strive to create the perfect 'dead' room. Sure you'll make the sale, but also make countless support calls as to why the speakers just don't sound as good in the customers' home. I was reading somewhere on this forum that someone was demoing bookshelves in a huge room. I can see the shock of the would-be buyer, seeing the huge excursions on the small bass units facing such massive air loads. I have also had the reverse experience, of being subjected to demos of large floorstanders inside a mousehole. We know what happens when that happens. A smattering of furniture helps. I would think that a typical living room is a good target to aim for, but it is a moving target. As usual, good judgement is the issue. I would look at a comfortable environment with a well-defined sweet spot, and some control over frequencies at that spot, but not too much. Something which the consumer can install afterwards, with decent WAF and the dealer should instruct the consumer on the same.

Regarding demoing bookshelf speakers in large demo rooms,I have done the same,and I have done the reverse too,i.e demo large speakers in small rooms.
I have made them sound terrific in both cases.
The trick is to hit upon that one room position that gives a correct room power response and low frequency loading.This however requires the dealer to have intricate knowledge of loudspeaker systems and their interaction with a given room.
Regards Deaf.

I agree with Siva and the others that the sound produced in a treated room may differ significantly from a 'real life' setting and may lead to disappointment with the equipment even though may not be the equipment's fault.

I would personally want to check out stuff in a room that need not be acoustically treated but should at least be set up in such a way that it cuts down the outside noise and reduces the distractions like other customers walking in and out. It should also not have too many items from which the sound may 'bounce off' or be muffled.

An example would be the Sonodyne outlet in the Forum mall in Bangalore, the listening room for the stereo is a completely glass paneled from where you can see the entire mall, also the entrance to this room is open so you have other customers walking in the middle of an audition and discussing among themselves. On the other hand, the Wharfedale showroom (Total Sound) also auditions in the shop itself but since it is tucked away in a quieter corner of the shopping complex thus has less distracting elements.

To cut a long story short, the audition room need not be acoustically perfect but at least it should be designed such that the sound is point of focus.