Old turntable repairs...

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Nagaraj
Ist häufiger hier
#1 erstellt: 12. Dez 2005, 16:04
Dear All,

A friend of mine is willing to give me his Philips GA 242 turntable since he has not used it for a long time now. The current condition of the turntable is described below:

=======
This is a Philips Hi-Fi Electronic Turntable GA 242. When powered up, the power up indication is there. However, on pressing the start button the table does not rotate. I saw that the rubber belt had crumbled when I lifted up the plate. Looks like the motor is not running, not sure.
=======

I am based in Bangalore and would like to know if any of you are aware of someone who can let me know what is the exact problem and can help me get it repaired?

Also would this be worth the effort - I don't own a turntable and am very curious to get this repaired and listen to the few LPs my friend has.

Thanks and Regards,
- Nagaraj
kspv
Ist häufiger hier
#2 erstellt: 13. Dez 2005, 08:34
Can I place a related query?

A senior citizen friend of mine (A retired professor from Bangalore University who is also an audiophile, and who had picked up lots of precious L.P.s from Norway and Sweden in 1970s when he was doing his post-doctoral there and still has them)has the following proposition to make.

If there is anybody in Bangalore who is willing to do a good job of converting his L.P. recordings into C.D.s, he is willing to give his collection to that person, provided one set of recorded C.D.s are given free of cost to him.

Alternatively, he wants to search for a turn-table repair guy in Bangalore. His record-player which he used to play through Tandberg speakers is not working anymore (Tandberg speakers are long gone; some shoddy attempts were made by a repair guy to replace the drivers with the local Philips ones, but were unsuccessful; Out of nostalagia, the gentleman is still keeping the boxes). He needs a place where either he can get his record-player repaired, or buy another one (new/used). Upon enquiries and little googling, we found out that very few companies are still making record-players, and Denon has a good economy model. But we are not sure where in Bangalore we can get this model. There is another company which manufactures a very expensive turntable model which uses a laser instead of stylus to read the L.P.s, but that is beyond our scope.

Thanks in advace for the info!


[Beitrag von kspv am 13. Dez 2005, 08:37 bearbeitet]
screamgigi
Stammgast
#3 erstellt: 13. Dez 2005, 16:41

Nagaraj schrieb:
Dear All,

A friend of mine is willing to give me his Philips GA 242 turntable since he has not used it for a long time now. The current condition of the turntable is described below:

=======
This is a Philips Hi-Fi Electronic Turntable GA 242. When powered up, the power up indication is there. However, on pressing the start button the table does not rotate. I saw that the rubber belt had crumbled when I lifted up the plate. Looks like the motor is not running, not sure.
=======

I am based in Bangalore and would like to know if any of you are aware of someone who can let me know what is the exact problem and can help me get it repaired?

Also would this be worth the effort - I don't own a turntable and am very curious to get this repaired and listen to the few LPs my friend has.

Thanks and Regards,
- Nagaraj

Nagraj-jee
That’s is one very good TT. Try this:

1.You have already noted the Belt (from the Motor Pulley to the platter). That will need replacing. Just make sure that the replacement is of correct tension or else you will get increase wow and over a period of time a bent shaft (if the belt is too tight)

2.We will next look under the chassis. Turn the TT upside down. But before doing this you should remove the steel platter and tighten the 3-safety bolt. These will have knurled edges. This will ensure that the suspended drive mechanism is held tightly and remain undamaged when you flip the TT.

3.Once you have opened the back cover, look out for a small plastic box with a metal cover. This houses the actual motor. Open the plastic back cover. Now you can see the motor and verify if the motor is actually rotating or not by pressing the “start’ push button. This motor drives the intermediate pulley via a small belt. So if the motor is working fine then the check the belt and the pulley for smooth operation.

4.This motor is the weakest point of this TT. I would have thought Philips could have done better by putting in bigger motors here.

5.If the motor itself is dead then proceed in this sequence:
a.Check the “start’ push button. Is it making good contact? This is an electronic circuit. Clean and see.
b.Next check if dc power is reaching the motor. If yes then the Motor is probably dead or jammed. Try to gently twist its shaft several times. DON”T put any lubrication. You may however drip a few drops of electrical contact cleaner down the shaft.
c.If the above doesn’t revive your motor then check by feeding it 6 volts to confirm if the motor is indeed dead. You will then need to find a replacement motor.
d.If the motor is Ok, then the problem is up ahead in the chain. It is difficult to diagnose from here. The electronic controller circuit itself could be damaged. Look for reading on the secondary of the AC main transformer. Look at the thermal fuse which is embedded in the transformer winding.

Do post back your finding so that we can proceed further
screamgigi
Stammgast
#4 erstellt: 13. Dez 2005, 16:43

kspv schrieb:
Can I place a related query?

A senior citizen friend of mine (A retired professor from Bangalore University who is also an audiophile, and who had picked up lots of precious L.P.s from Norway and Sweden in 1970s when he was doing his post-doctoral there and still has them)has the following proposition to make.

If there is anybody in Bangalore who is willing to do a good job of converting his L.P. recordings into C.D.s, he is willing to give his collection to that person, provided one set of recorded C.D.s are given free of cost to him.

Alternatively, he wants to search for a turn-table repair guy in Bangalore. His record-player which he used to play through Tandberg speakers is not working anymore (Tandberg speakers are long gone; some shoddy attempts were made by a repair guy to replace the drivers with the local Philips ones, but were unsuccessful; Out of nostalagia, the gentleman is still keeping the boxes). He needs a place where either he can get his record-player repaired, or buy another one (new/used). Upon enquiries and little googling, we found out that very few companies are still making record-players, and Denon has a good economy model. But we are not sure where in Bangalore we can get this model. There is another company which manufactures a very expensive turntable model which uses a laser instead of stylus to read the L.P.s, but that is beyond our scope.

Thanks in advace for the info!


Kspv-jee

I can offer this service but I don’t live in Bangaluru.

I use fairly advanced digital processing for LT>CD transfer. In short the steps are:

1.Digitising the vinyl into 32bit floating wave files by an outboard AD converter.
2.Clean Pop’s and Crackle.
3.Remove the vinyl hush and background noise.
4.Remove the rumble and any residual 50Hz hum.

My philosophy is to employ only as much processing as required. I even put a Valve effect run-over to restore that analogue sound.

My phonostage is a Valve /FET hybrid and I believe after several years of experimenting I have go the RIAA just right.

Do let me know if you are keen. I will send more details.
screamgigi
Stammgast
#5 erstellt: 13. Dez 2005, 18:30
Just to the add to my haphazard post above on TT repairs:

Never take your TT for any repair guy who had not worked on TT’s before. Even in the heydays, TT repair guys were few and afar. Repairing a TT is a time taking process and involves many steps of electrical as well as precision mechanical knowledge. It’s very easy to compound the damage.

I would rather take it to a DIY guy who understands and appreciates the finer things that go into building a TT.

My humble thoughts.
sammygeorge
Ist häufiger hier
#6 erstellt: 13. Dez 2005, 19:27
scream ji
what a helpful response and a practical one too.
wish the others (ref: Indian Dealer / Distributor - Audio Prices & Attitudes) take note of this and change the track!
Nagaraj
Ist häufiger hier
#7 erstellt: 14. Dez 2005, 15:47
Screamgigi,

Thanks a lot for all the information. I'll try some of your suggestions this weekend and will update you on what I find. BTW, are you based in Mumbai?

Regards,
- Nagaraj
screamgigi
Stammgast
#8 erstellt: 14. Dez 2005, 19:39
Sammy-jee
Thanks. But I think most D/D in this forum has been very generous in sharing their enormous knowledge.

Nagraj-jee
You have a wonderful thing at hand. Enjoy!
No I don't live in Mumbai. I am atleast 1700km away to the east:)


[Beitrag von screamgigi am 14. Dez 2005, 19:50 bearbeitet]
Nagaraj
Ist häufiger hier
#9 erstellt: 19. Dez 2005, 08:41
Hello Screamgigi,

screamgigi schrieb:

3.Once you have opened the back cover, look out for a small plastic box with a metal cover. This houses the actual motor. Open the plastic back cover. Now you can see the motor and verify if the motor is actually rotating or not by pressing the “start’ push button. This motor drives the intermediate pulley via a small belt. So if the motor is working fine then the check the belt and the pulley for smooth operation.

Do post back your finding so that we can proceed further


I did the above and it appears the results are promising - we were able to view the motor rotating cleanly when the TT was powered on. We also noticed that a smaller belt that runs between the motor and the intermediate pulley was damaged. It had sort of melted and only small pieces of it were sticking around. So it appears that this is a case of two belts needing replacement. Hope my conclusion is correct.

If so, the question now is where do I get the two belts from? Any suggestions?

Thanks and Regards,
- Nagaraj

PS : I did Google for "Bande Utkala Janani" and concluded that you are from Orissa :-)
screamgigi
Stammgast
#10 erstellt: 19. Dez 2005, 21:10
I am glad you were able to spot the problem early on. As you just found out it’s not all the difficult to tackle a TT provided you know what you are doing.

Your conclusion is correct. You will need new belts and I am sure you can work out what sizes are required. With a little ingenuity you can find out an approx size, which you will take to the local electronics mart. Belts come in many size and type. You may need to ask for “VCR” belts and such. Buy a few which broadly meet your size and then select a belt, which isn’t too tight or too loose. It should be just a wee bit tighter then a perfect snug fit cause it will loosen up after a few hours of use.

I would also recommend that while you are inside, do give a thorough cleaning to all rotating parts. But DON’T use any lubricants. After you have put the TT back on feet successfully, we shall explore several wonderful things to get the best possible sound.

Nagaraj schrieb:
PS : I did Google for "Bande Utkala Janani" and concluded that you are from Orissa :-)
Lets just say that I am a nationalistic Indian of Oriya origin who has never lived in orissa:)
Nagaraj
Ist häufiger hier
#11 erstellt: 30. Dez 2005, 11:05
Hi Screamgigi,

Am back with a couple of more questions.

screamgigi schrieb:
With a little ingenuity you can find out an approx size, which you will take to the local electronics mart. Belts come in many size and type. You may need to ask for “VCR” belts and such.

Estimating the length of the belt required is possible but we are not sure about the shape of the belt - the cross section that is - whether it is V type or rectangular and such. We can check out the pulleys and decide but I would like a second opinion on the shape of these belts.

My other question is regarding conversion from the 5 pin DIN connector to RCA output. The turntable has its output as a 5 pin DIN connector. Are there converters available here in India? A search on the web throws up converters that are priced varying from 16 pounds to about USD150!

Thanks and Regards,
- Nagaraj
screamgigi
Stammgast
#12 erstellt: 30. Dez 2005, 13:26

Nagaraj schrieb:
Hi Screamgigi,

Am back with a couple of more questions.

screamgigi schrieb:
With a little ingenuity you can find out an approx size, which you will take to the local electronics mart. Belts come in many size and type. You may need to ask for “VCR” belts and such.

Estimating the length of the belt required is possible but we are not sure about the shape of the belt - the cross section that is - whether it is V type or rectangular and such. We can check out the pulleys and decide but I would like a second opinion on the shape of these belts.

My other question is regarding conversion from the 5 pin DIN connector to RCA output. The turntable has its output as a 5 pin DIN connector. Are there converters available here in India? A search on the web throws up converters that are priced varying from 16 pounds to about USD150!

Thanks and Regards,
- Nagaraj

Both the belts should be rectangular type.

Yes you can remove the 5 pic DIN connector. That IC is made up of a pair of shielded cable. The inner lead is carries the signal, while the outer shield provides the ground connection. A converter here will only degrade your fragile sound.

The original IC is of a very poor quality. I would advice you to replace it with a modern, low loss, low capacitance pure copper cable. Just de-solder the IC where they connect to the output of the Cartridge and solder in the new IC. Keep the length of the new IC as short as possible.

That brings to another question. What phonostage you are using? If you are plugging it directly to a modern amp, then its should have a phono amplifying stage
Subhabrata_Dutta_Roy
Neuling
#13 erstellt: 26. Dez 2013, 10:09

screamgigi (Beitrag #4) schrieb:

kspv schrieb:
Can I place a related query?

A senior citizen friend of mine (A retired professor from Bangalore University who is also an audiophile, and who had picked up lots of precious L.P.s from Norway and Sweden in 1970s when he was doing his post-doctoral there and still has them)has the following proposition to make.

If there is anybody in Bangalore who is willing to do a good job of converting his L.P. recordings into C.D.s, he is willing to give his collection to that person, provided one set of recorded C.D.s are given free of cost to him.

Alternatively, he wants to search for a turn-table repair guy in Bangalore. His record-player which he used to play through Tandberg speakers is not working anymore (Tandberg speakers are long gone; some shoddy attempts were made by a repair guy to replace the drivers with the local Philips ones, but were unsuccessful; Out of nostalagia, the gentleman is still keeping the boxes). He needs a place where either he can get his record-player repaired, or buy another one (new/used). Upon enquiries and little googling, we found out that very few companies are still making record-players, and Denon has a good economy model. But we are not sure where in Bangalore we can get this model. There is another company which manufactures a very expensive turntable model which uses a laser instead of stylus to read the L.P.s, but that is beyond our scope.

Thanks in advace for the info!


Kspv-jee

I can offer this service but I don’t live in Bangaluru.

I use fairly advanced digital processing for LT>CD transfer. In short the steps are:

1.Digitising the vinyl into 32bit floating wave files by an outboard AD converter.
2.Clean Pop’s and Crackle.
3.Remove the vinyl hush and background noise.
4.Remove the rumble and any residual 50Hz hum.

My philosophy is to employ only as much processing as required. I even put a Valve effect run-over to restore that analogue sound.

My phonostage is a Valve /FET hybrid and I believe after several years of experimenting I have go the RIAA just right.

Do let me know if you are keen. I will send more details.








Dear MR. Nagraj,


I do personally repair theold radios and turntables. But I do live in Kolkata. I do have one 242 turntable of my own. How ever you set might has some electronic failure. Thats why motor is not moving and belt is replacable. However if you like to know details about it Please mail me at subhabrata_duttaroy@yahoo.com
Subhabrata_Dutta_Roy
Neuling
#14 erstellt: 26. Dez 2013, 10:13

kspv (Beitrag #2) schrieb:
Can I place a related query?

A senior citizen friend of mine (A retired professor from Bangalore University who is also an audiophile, and who had picked up lots of precious L.P.s from Norway and Sweden in 1970s when he was doing his post-doctoral there and still has them)has the following proposition to make.

If there is anybody in Bangalore who is willing to do a good job of converting his L.P. recordings into C.D.s, he is willing to give his collection to that person, provided one set of recorded C.D.s are given free of cost to him.

Alternatively, he wants to search for a turn-table repair guy in Bangalore. His record-player which he used to play through Tandberg speakers is not working anymore (Tandberg speakers are long gone; some shoddy attempts were made by a repair guy to replace the drivers with the local Philips ones, but were unsuccessful; Out of nostalagia, the gentleman is still keeping the boxes). He needs a place where either he can get his record-player repaired, or buy another one (new/used). Upon enquiries and little googling, we found out that very few companies are still making record-players, and Denon has a good economy model. But we are not sure where in Bangalore we can get this model. There is another company which manufactures a very expensive turntable model which uses a laser instead of stylus to read the L.P.s, but that is beyond our scope.

Thanks in advace for the info!








I do repair old radios and Record Players. But I stay at Calcutta. I do have philips 242 turntable of my own in working condition. How ever your set is might having an electronical failure. Thats why its not working. If you like to know details you can mail me at subhabrata_duttaroy@yahoo.com
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