Got my first copy.waste of money.

I know I am sticking my neck out by saying this, but I THOROUGHLY enjoy Stereophile magazine.

I have a 5 year Airmail subscription and anxiously look forward to and read every issue.

My only B with them is that their International posting is the PITS... mags are delayed and sometimes never received thru their Chennai based local mailing office. On the positive side, they have Always couriered me a copy from the US, when I have E-Mailed them a non receipt complaint.

I wonder if I could steer this thread away from a dead end, subject statement, instead to :

WHAT DO I EXPECT IN AN AUIOPHILE MAGAZINE ?

Frankly, I find Stereophile to be the Best ( Shoot - I used a supelative ) Audio magazine that I am aware of. Points that find favour with me (and Im sure that many will have their own & different yardstick ) are :

1. The Only magazine that provides BOTH Subjective views and detailed measurements.

( I do Not claim to have stumbelled accross all E-zines. If there are others that do this for Most of their feature reviews, please share the URL. Will add them to my reading )

I MUCH prefer this 2 Prong approach, so that Snake Oil & Bulshit alone cannot rule.


2. A relatively small batch of reviewers, so that I ( and regular readers ) have a handle om the reviewer's likes, dislikes, and maybe ( extreme view) even credibility.

3. A good crossection of equipment reviewed... from a few hundred dollar equipment to the absurdly priced, and esoteric.

They did seem to have a HUGE Musical Fidelity bias in that all (?) MF equipment has been reviewed (well ) but either they have corrected course or MF has not released new stuff lately

May I request Other Forum Members to share which magazines they like or dislike, and particularly share the URLs of e-Zines that they particulary like. ( A sentence explainig what partricularly you like about the mag / e-zine would be great.

Thanks

Actually I have been a subscriber of Stereophile (The digital version) for the past 4 years..and have just stopped it.

I feel it is one of the better magazine of the lot now..at least reviews brands which have not been heard before (Other than MF and Triangle as mentuioned by ANji)


Also their letters to the editor are pretty nice and also a nice editorial.

i second Amp_nuts point on measurements..they do it and these can be thought as some point of reference.

for Online i like 6mooons..they also review well.

But more than half the magazine is adverts...i read a couple of articles, the CHORD DAC64 and Chord blue was good, so was one about acoustic panels..Definitely better than other mags i have read but i expected much much more..6 moons is pretty good.

But more than half the magazine is adverts...

hey ! I LIKE Adverts....

They are informative and sometimes even entertaining.
And its the adverts that provide you the magazine for less that US $ 1 each.... else would have been US $ 10 each or whatever... + Postage.

heheh..reluctantly i admit , i do enjoy the eye candy
And as you say, a hearty laugh when i look at the insane price quotoations..

Amp nut I haven't recd a single copy for the last 4 months. How does one take this up with Stereophile. When I email them they have a standard reply and just cant seem to understand that they have a problem with their agency in Chennai. Or maybe they give too hoots for the Indian market which must be missing their radar by a mile.
I stopped the electronic version as it's most inconvenient to carry my laptop where I like to read

Jeeves schrieb:

I stopped the electronic version as it's most inconvenient to carry my laptop where I like to read ;)

Or maybe they give too hoots for the Indian market which must be missing their radar by a mile.

You are SO Correct !

Email Grace Riker at :

Grace_Riker@primediamags.com

If you dont hear from her ( or receive a copy by courier ) within 1 week, post back on this forum.

I will share what I did to get them moving ....

P.S: Dont forget to mention your detailed Name and address and any other Info like your subscribtion number and payment details, to Grace, when writing to her.

Jeeves schrieb:

I stopped the electronic version as it's most inconvenient to carry my laptop where I like to read ;)

exactly why i didn't too...eventhough i spend over 10 hours a day infront of the coputer/laptop.

To continue the magazine bashing mood just recieved the Absolute Sound after 3 months.
They have the same problem as Stereophile...just cant seem to understand the problem or dont really care. I understand this has been happening to Indian subscribers for years.
Tragedy really...was really happy when in the beginning got both the magazines fairly regularly...thought hey this is a great deal..getting a years subcription for about the cost of a single copy in the book shops!
Amp Nut thanks will try mailing Grace.

Just got my August copy of stereophile! Wonder of wonders!

congratulations maybe stereophile folks visit this forum

Thanks JA!!

Savyasaachi schrieb:

came back home and was excited to see my first copy of Stereophile.. I subscribed for one year for 10$. Even at that ridiculous price i find it a waste of money. All i see is that half the magazine is filled with obnoxious and over priced equipment with superlatives thrown around like stars in desert night sky... what a good waste of beer money :(

Whole-heartedly agree!
In year 2005 I took this same challenge from S'phile & subscribed. I calculated that I gave up atleast 5 cups of Cafe Americano at Starbucks on this thoroughly useless glossy rag!
Nevertheless, I did read it (after all I had paid for it & I felt a twinge of guilt to read it when it arrived in the mail!).
They are after me once again w/ the $10/year subscription challenge but I ain't succumbing to them!

Amp_Nut schrieb:

I know I am sticking my neck out by saying this, but I THOROUGHLY enjoy Stereophile magazine.

yes you are!!

here comes my chain-saw towards your neck!
oops, I got your head by mistake!

Amp_Nut schrieb:

1. The Only magazine that provides BOTH Subjective views and detailed measurements.

JA has gotten much better over the years taking measurements but several manuf have noted that many of his measurement techniques for speakers & CDPs is plain flawed. There was a very recent discsussion on AA wherein the victim was an Ayre CDP & Charlie Hansen was contributing to that thread. There was a large discussion & lots of opinions were stated. You can probably find that thread. Several times I seen similar threads on the SpeakerAsylum.
Anyway, take those measurements w/ a grain of salt esp. since he does not give you the conditions the measurements were taken under.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

May I request Other Forum Members to share which magazines they like or dislike, and particularly share the URLs of e-Zines that they particulary like. ( A sentence explainig what partricularly you like about the mag / e-zine would be great. Thanks :)

Some of the magazines I like to read are
(1) UK's Hi-Fi News & Record. this one has atleast 1 technical article per issue which goes into depth (addressing the masses & not addressing the engineering crowd) about digital techniques used in CD manuf today, distortion, oversampling, etc.
Most of the times the reviews are balanced & very Englishman-like (I'm reminded of the phrase that G_S_Madhav used to describe that Cyrus CDP he was auditioning!! ). i.e. these guys are not easily swayed unlike the S'phile guys who have acute amensia - every item that they are testing right then is the best ever component they have ever had!
However, Hi-Fi News & Record has a tremendously soft corner for all equipment made by Audio Research! This I cannot figure out!

(2) Positive Feedback on-line (www.positive-feedback.com). These guys, especially Dr. S, is not afraid to speak his mind. They review gear that is far more affordable. Their reviews are also more balanced. These guys also provide a long list of music titles they have reviewed.

(3) www.soundstage.com. These guys provide measurements too. How accurate I cannot say. reviews are good & equipment is modestly to somewhat expensive.
Their sister publication www.ultraaudio.com covers the mega priced gear like Rockport, Gryphon, Kharma, MBL, etc). These guys also provide a long list of music titles they have reviewed.

(4) www.6moons.com - balanced reviews & affordable equipment. More colour in their reviews, CD artwork of the CDs used in the tests are provided. These guys also provide a long list of music titles they have reviewed.

That's all for now.....

Hi Bombaywalla,

Had a Particularly Bad day before posting ?

Bombaywalla said :

here comes my chain-saw towards your neck! oops, I got your head by mistake!

I use this forum to share my views and learn of others views.... NOT "Chain-Saw" posts or posters....

Discarding your aggressive opening lines, I still standby what I said and with Stereophile for the reasons stated by me. ( Yes, Stereophile is Far from perfect, but it is still by far the best of the crop )

Regarding measurements :

CDP performance in most cases borders on the limits of measurement capability of even mega-buck test gear. Further, there is no consebsus on which tests are most relevant to sound quality. Hence, a manuafacturer may measure in a particular way or make measurements that either They feel are relevant, or simply because they yield Very Nice specs.

Just because Stereophile ( Or ANY Other magazine for that purpose ) has taken a different approach, does not negate the magazine's approach or measurements.

Loudspeaker measuments are difficult, because they interact with their surroundings, and results may vary SIGNIFICANTLY with placement alone.....

Again aggreived manuafacturers will take exception.


Thanks for the listing of magazines and e-zines.

I have been reading Hi-Fi News regularly at the local British Council library for years. ( They have - sadly, discontinued it recently). The magazine is a very good read, but I do not hold the reviews in high esteem. ALL Brit Gear is praised... and then there is Ken Kessler ...


.... do have a NICE day Today

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Hi Bombaywalla, Had a Particularly Bad day before posting ?

Hi Amp_Nut,

Not at all!! I was having a bit of fun with you (I should have put some smiley faces after my chain-saw icons. Sorry I forgot!) It was meant to be taken light-heartedly by you.
You are one of the better & knowledgeable fellows on this forum & I enjoy my exchanges with you even tho' we might not agree. In fact, often, this makes it interesting. So, please do not think that I have something against you. I do not!

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Just because Stereophile ( Or ANY Other magazine for that purpose ) has taken a different approach, does not negate the magazine's approach or measurements.

I think that it does certainly dilute their feeble credibility when they show the public that, despite being a pro outfit dedicated to serving the audio community, they do not know what or how to measure equipment correctly. Wrong measurements colour a person's perspective on a piece of gear. JA has been known to put down a piece of gear several times in the past based on his bogus measurements!

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Loudspeaker measuments are difficult, because they interact with their surroundings, and results may vary SIGNIFICANTLY with placement alone.....

this is a fact! And for a pro audio outfit to take incorrect measurements + put down a piece of gear & PUBLISH those results for the whole world to read is pure sacriledge! It has made several audio companies go out of business in the past!
With the viewpoint that you have stated, you are endorsing this attitude, I think??


I have ZERO problems with making an audio manuf go out of biz if the measurements are done correctly & the review listening experience corroborates those measurements.

These guys are playing on thin ice when they so loosely play with people's livihoods. There is a HUGE responsibility when reviewing someone's gear esp. when the magazine subscription is worldwide.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Thanks for the listing of magazines and e-zines.

welcome! hope that you benefit from reading them.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

I have been reading Hi-Fi News regularly at the local British Council library for years. ( They have - sadly, discontinued it recently). The magazine is a very good read, but I do not hold the reviews in high esteem. ALL Brit Gear is praised... and then there is Ken Kessler ...

I have not found Ken Kessler objectionable. Maybe I need to read his columns more often. I usually blow all the fluff off & go straight for the info I'm looking for in that particular issue.

Yes, all Brit gear & Audio Research gear - neither can do any wrong in their eyes!!

they do not know what or how to measure equipment correctly. Wrong measurements colour a person's perspective on a piece of gear. JA has been known to put down a piece of gear several times in the past based on his bogus measurements!

Strong words, Sir !

I did not know...

A couple of examples ? Preferably amps ... Given my name and affinity for that product category ...

A couple of examples ? Preferably amps ... Given my name and affinity for that product category ...

Contrary to your claims of a viscous attack on manufacturers, with incorrect measurements, my experience has in fact been to the contrary....

When he has measured equipment that does not meet specs, or is far below specs, is that the short commings are indicated in the measurement graphs, but the verbal interpretation either skirts the issue or gives a lot of yada-yada to mask the facts...

The review of the flagship CHORD amplifier ( US $ 70K I think ) meeting only Half its claimed output power, is an example....

Audio Physic Caldera is another example, where the product was "tweaked" and another pair given for review with better measurements citing "factory defect" in the earlier one.

An example of power amps that I remember from recent issues was an AirTight tube power amp. It measured dismally. Both the reviewer & JA were did not let that slide. I'm sure that it affect AirTight but did not make them go under.
Several years ago, Green Mountain Audio gave their speakers to S'phile for a review & the measurements were completely & thorouughly botched. THAT nearly put the company out of business! 1stly, the audio community was not literate about 1st-order x-overs speakers (nor are they even now! ). 2ndly, that speaker company was very young & had 2, maybe 3 speakers in their portfolio & 3rdly, JA had no frigging idea about what makes a 1st- order speaker tick so he took measurements like he would have for a regular higher order x-over speaker & totally mis-represented that Green Mountain speaker.

there were other pieces of gear that suffered at the hands of S'phile & JA & I've read discussions of them on AA but the specifics ellude me @ this moment.

Contrary to your claims of a viscous attack on manufacturers, with incorrect measurements.....

I did not say that the attacks were viscous.
What I said was that JA, being clueless in how to measure a certain piece of gear, did the measurements his way & wrote derogatorily about that product. The text was civilized but it was easy to see that JA thought almost nothing of it.


One similar incident (to what Arj & you have cited) occured w/ Pass' XA-160 power amp that measured far below its rated output. JA let everyone know & he hammered the product pretty good. It was all over the AmpAsylum that month. I do not know how those measurements were taken but if what he measured was true, it was fair IMO. For an amp that costs nearly $20K to not meets its specs.......
Subsequently, Pass sent him another unit & rectified the mistake. It turned out that Pass was asleep at the wheel & some tech "certified" the product to be sent for review. I suppose that Pass learnt it the hard way!!!

It turned out that Pass was asleep at the wheel & some tech "certified" the product to be sent for review. I suppose that Pass learnt it the hard way!!!

If that happens to a Review sample, just think what passes thru for regular delivery ... to ( US $ 20,000 ) paying customers !

Such manufacturers NEED to get their backs broken...

Incidentally, a friend is having a LOUSY time with his 6 month old Honda CIVIC car .... but thats another story

JA had no frigging idea about what makes a 1st- order speaker tick so he took measurements like he would have for a regular higher order x-over speaker & totally mis-represented that Green Mountain speaker.

Luckily ( for whom ? ) Stereophile has done a pretty good and detailed review of the Sonus fabor Extrema Speakers, about 10 years ago.

These are 1st order x overs. I currently use them...

I will certainly look up the Air Tight Tube amp review, if its on their website...

Hi Bombaywalla,

Are you referring to :

"Air Tight ATM-211 tube monoblock power amplifier

Robert Deutsch, October, 2002"

http://stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/687/index1.html

No other Airtight Amp review on the S'phile website.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Hi Bombaywalla, Are you referring to : "Air Tight ATM-211 tube monoblock power amplifier Robert Deutsch, October, 2002" http://stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/687/index1.html No other Airtight Amp review on the S'phile website.

Hi Amp_Nut,

yes, that is the one. I have the hardcopy @ home.

RD's conclusion sealed the fate of that $9800 power amp when he wrote that it was a good amplifier but the $1595 Quicksilver Horn mono was just as good!!
Then to redeem himself he wrote that, even tho' the Air Tight 211 did not sound as pure as lower wattage SETs & that his AG Uno horn speakers made the noise of the amp more hearable than other amps that he had heard in his system, the AirTight was the best amp he had ever had in his system!

C'mon guys that was totally childish of RD. My 6 year old could have written a better conclusion!! It was a conclusion for the sake of a conclusion & it was a despicable one!

Then there is the vignet containing JA's measurements. ANd, he let AirTight have it from all angles. If RD fataly wounded this amp, then JA put a bullet in its head & did the needful. Maybe it was good to let it die completely rather than let it flounder but it is hard for me to believe that AirTight put out an amp that oscillated. AirTight has many amps out & from all the comments I have read on Amp Asylum re. their products, AirTight seems to have their eye on the 8-ball.
If it is possible that AirTight put out an amplifier that oscillated then it is equally possible that JA made a mistake in his measurements! That is why, IMO, it was SO IMPORTANT for JA to explain his measurements & the conditions of the measurements ESPECIALLY since he was totally trashing an amplifier from a very reputable & long-standing audio company. This was NECESSARY so that the public could gain faith in his measurements rather us taking it at face-value.What RD & he wrote in that review was MEGA IRRESPONSIBLE. They killed a product just like that!.
I do not have the Nov 2002 issue so I did not read that "Manufacturer's comments" page that must have had a very stiff protest from AXISS Distribution (AirTight's importer in the USA)

You have also noted 2 things
(1) JA or Stereophile did NOT ask for a 2nd unit. Neither did they ask AirTight to fix the review sample. Now, how unfair is that??? With the more recent Pass XA-160, they did both. So, they did not do due diligence NOR did they give AirTight a chance to redeem themselves. And, AirTight has a California importer/dealer (AXISS, which is headed by Art Marturano) &
(2) that there has NOT been another AirTight amp or product reviewed in Stereophile since! Do you think that is just a coincidence???
<< Personally, like Green Mountain Audio, AirTight will never make that mistake again!! >>

Thanks Bombaywalla, for a very detailed and interesting read. Clearly the details are well etched in your mind, even though the review was done in 2002.

More recently ... the current Issue of S'phile has reviewed Musical Fidelity's Mono blocks that are 'innovatively' postioned as "Superchargers". They are basicaly monoblocks ( US $ 5000 a pair ), that are provided with inputs that can Accept the Speaker Outputs from another amplifier, who's output power needs steroids.

The Supercharger, is supposed to retain the sound ( for example ) of a flea power SET amp, and Transparently boost it to 500 Watts...

( as a forum member has put it "a new magical component has been created that can combine a 1/2 Watt SET with a solid state behemoth, the result greater than the sum of its parts."

Siva first pointed me to these unique creatures, in a pm.

I was wondering why Sphile had not reviewed these products PRONTO... ( They and MF are established Bedfellows ).

Well its finally made it to the Sept Issue, with all the predictable conclusions.

However, what I found Particularly fun and an interesting read, are the responses that the review provoked on the Sphile forum. "Two Towers of Worms"

If you guys have 10 minutes to spare, do read the link :

http://forum.stereop...n=0&page=0#Post26282

VERY well written, and fun to read

The forum members have told JA & MF that they have had ENOUGH of MF advertorials.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Thanks Bombaywalla, for a very detailed and interesting read. Clearly the details are well etched in your mind, even though the review was done in 2002. More recently ... the current Issue of S'phile has reviewed Musical Fidelity's Mono blocks that are 'innovatively' postioned as "Superchargers". They are basicaly monoblocks ( US $ 5000 a pair ), that are provided with inputs that can Accept the Speaker Outputs from another amplifier, who's output power needs steroids. The Supercharger, is supposed to retain the sound ( for example ) of a flea power SET amp, and Transparently boost it to 500 Watts... ( as a forum member has put it "a new magical component has been created that can combine a 1/2 Watt SET with a solid state behemoth, the result greater than the sum of its parts." Siva first pointed me to these unique creatures, in a pm. I was wondering why Sphile had not reviewed these products PRONTO... ( They and MF are established Bedfellows ). Well its finally made it to the Sept Issue, with all the predictable conclusions. However, what I found Particularly fun and an interesting read, are the responses that the review provoked on the Sphile forum. "Two Towers of Worms" If you guys have 10 minutes to spare, do read the link : http://forum.stereop...n=0&page=0#Post26282 VERY well written, and fun to read The forum members have told JA & MF that they have had ENOUGH of MF advertorials.

Thanks for that link, Amp_Nut sahib.
There was more sarcasm dripping from every post (except JA's defensive posts & 1 of Alexo's) that my roll of paper towels could mop up!!
I agree - Stereophile is pimping MF gear big-time more that they do other gear.
People lose a little more respect for them each time incidents like this & others occur.

it was also hilarious to read Alexo complimenting JA for his measurements!
I suppose when one is a clueless audio fan & is not well-versed in electronics & how measurements are made & what is important to measure, then anything presented by a magazine on a colour glossy page is deemed "good" & "correct"!!

Amp_Nut schrieb:

A couple of examples ? Preferably amps ... Given my name and affinity for that product category ... Contrary to your claims of a viscous attack on manufacturers, with incorrect measurements, my experience has in fact been to the contrary.... When he has measured equipment that does not meet specs, or is far below specs, is that the short commings are indicated in the measurement graphs, but the verbal interpretation either skirts the issue or gives a lot of yada-yada to mask the facts... The review of the flagship CHORD amplifier ( US $ 70K I think ) meeting only Half its claimed output power, is an example....

Do tell us which are the most important specs to look at and their subjective equivalents in reviewing language. So that we can read through the fine prose.