Monoblock amps

I would heartily recommend the Flying Moles.

Doc says they are priced at Rs 27 K for the pair.

100 Watts @ 8 Ohms.

160 Watts @ 4 Ohms.

I would think rega exon's are as well. I remember them being available for 29k per piece. Dont know if they still are.

Someone ought to get in VFM products like CI Audio and their UCD versions.

Manek.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

I would heartily recommend the Flying Moles. Doc says they are priced at Rs 27 K for the pair. 100 Watts @ 8 Ohms. 160 Watts @ 4 Ohms.

Hi !

It's 27 K per piece and NOT a pair. don't get that optimistic Amp_Nut !

Regards

Sanjay

There is no such thing as VFM monoblocks , because the basic concept of going monoblock is to achieve the best with cost no bar designing. All VFM products have to be a compromise solution (which we all are happy to buy and use)so instead of getting a compromised monoblock it would be better to spend the same money on an integrated or stereo amp that is better designed with tighter compromise in mind.

SDhawan schrieb:

Amp_Nut schrieb: I would heartily recommend the Flying Moles. Doc says they are priced at Rs 27 K for the pair. 100 Watts @ 8 Ohms. 160 Watts @ 4 Ohms. Hi ! It's 27 K per piece and NOT a pair. don't get that optimistic Amp_Nut ! Regards Sanjay

good lord !! thats more than double the cost at singapore where its 25K for a pair... cheaper to fly there and fly back with it!!

Arj,

that would bring us back to the problem of the local pricing strategy

manek.

ani said:

There is no such thing as VFM monoblocks , because the basic concept of going monoblock is to achieve the best with cost no bar designing. All VFM products have to be a compromise solution (which we all are happy to buy and use)so instead of getting a compromised monoblock it would be better to spend the same money on an integrated or stereo amp that is better designed with tighter compromise in mind

I TOTALLY agree with you.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

ani said: There is no such thing as VFM monoblocks , because the basic concept of going monoblock is to achieve the best with cost no bar designing. All VFM products have to be a compromise solution (which we all are happy to buy and use)so instead of getting a compromised monoblock it would be better to spend the same money on an integrated or stereo amp that is better designed with tighter compromise in mind I TOTALLY agree with you.

the fm actually is pretty vfm from what i have heard. it was running a totem 1 which is not usually easy to drive.

alo pmc speakers is using this in its active versions of its speakers (not the ALM 1) instead of its usual bryston.

Monoblocks are definitely not a VFM option. For that you have integrated amps..
But here is one option which is making waves in the US for those looking out for fantastic mono-block performance at the price of a good stereo power amp.
Khartago monoblocks from odyssey audio. They even have an option of upgrading the power supply to extreme.
http://www.odysseyaudiosg.com/Khartago.htm

The extreme version of the monoblocks costs around 1550 $ for a pair. These are created using a very expensive design of the super hi-end “symphonic line” from germany.

Also check out Lyrita's Reference monoblox...I am not really sure of the exact price but they are pretty affordable (altho they were still beyond my reach )

I have heard them and they really rock! If you are in Delhi, do ping Viren and listen to them...

Nebody has an idea of how much would the Nagra VPA monos might cost? I heard them in the US paired with Logans and they sounded sweet...

square_wave schrieb:

Monoblocks are definitely not a VFM option. For that you have integrated amps.. But here is one option which is making waves in the US for those looking out for fantastic mono-block performance at the price of a good stereo power amp. Khartago monoblocks from odyssey audio. They even have an option of upgrading the power supply to extreme. http://www.odysseyaudiosg.com/Khartago.htm The extreme version of the monoblocks costs around 1550 $ for a pair. These are created using a very expensive design of the super hi-end “symphonic line” from germany.

I Did hear them in a demo..running hyperion speakers. they are good but no Thaat great hype over sunstance.

i feel FMs are really vfm (i know thats another subjective term) but they are pretty neutral so not for everyone palate ! maybe thats the reason they go so well with PMCs

Did any of use hypex DIY kits (http://www.hypex.nl/) to make monoblocks, how are they.

- Debu

Debu schrieb:

Did any of use hypex DIY kits (http://www.hypex.nl/) to make monoblocks, how are they. - Debu

If you can get the P3A Power Amp PCB from Australia...i can give you the components you need (including difficult to get driver & power transistors).

I do not think you will get anything close to this from a VFM perspective.

Regards
Siva.

I am using the EAR 1001 monoblocks from www.acoustic-reality.com These are 1000W x 4ohms / 500W x 8 ohms each. They use the identical Icepower modules as the Rowland 501's. I have A/B'd them with various amps. and found them to be excellent VFM.

Try a pair of NAD 272s in bridged mode,they really rock.When you have 700watts @4ohms on tap, things do change a bit.
Regards Deaf.

deaf schrieb:

Try a pair of NAD 272s in bridged mode,they really rock.When you have 700watts @4ohms on tap, things do change a bit. Regards Deaf.

Old love ...

SDhawan schrieb:

deaf schrieb: Try a pair of NAD 272s in bridged mode,they really rock.When you have 700watts @4ohms on tap, things do change a bit. Regards Deaf. Old love ... :angel

No Doc just grat VFM.
Deaf.

I absolutely agree with you and that's why "love"...

In another thread regarding monoblocks this is exactly the suggestions that I had given - NAD power amp in bridged mode 1 or 2 pairs (for biamping)

Now, I have a question. Suppose you had two NAD power amps - would you prefer to bridge them and use them as monoblocks or would you bi-amp them? Which configuration do you think will sound better?

Good query Doc.It so happens that one has to try three methods to realise the best results,as it entirely depends on the loudspeakers used.The horizontal biamp sounded best with the PSB M2, the Stratus gold with the vertical biamp,and the T8 and the Manger 109 with the bridged mono configuration.Hence try all three configs with the speaker one intends to use.This ofcourse worked only with the speaker cables all being the same.
Deaf.

I guess here is an opportunity for Indian manufactures to offer a VFM Gain Clone based monoblock and linestage. I recon such a systems could be sold of less than Rs. 25K. Maybe companies like Corrson and Lyrita can investigate this.

Thanks for the suggestion, Screamgigi.

I'd like to keep an open mind, but I have a sneaking suspicion that these gainclone clones won't be able to keep up with a good valve amp. They seem to be clean and powerful - but some of that life in the music gets cleaned out too.

I'll wait and see!

Viren.

deaf schrieb:

Try a pair of NAD 272s in bridged mode,they really rock.When you have 700watts @4ohms on tap, things do change a bit. Regards Deaf.

Two NAD C272 ‘s…….hmmm
Okay at this price point, why not two adcoms / rotels ?

square_wave schrieb:

deaf schrieb: Try a pair of NAD 272s in bridged mode,they really rock.When you have 700watts @4ohms on tap, things do change a bit. Regards Deaf. Two NAD C272 ‘s…….hmmm Okay at this price point, why not two adcoms / rotels ?

The answer is speed my friend ,speed.
Deaf.

Deaf..

tell us more about the Nad 272 power amp....what are its other good points besides speed....how versatile is it with partnering equipment, how do you rate it with similar offereings....what are its caveats, etc etc....

Manek.

Dear Manek,
First the not so good points.Firstly the NAD is not the most tranparent amp in the extreme top end,which is acceptable at its price point.Secondly it is not liquid i.e it has a start stop feel whereby notes do not flow into each other harmonically, like the better tube amps score very high points in this respect.The flip side to this is that it sounds very fast due to this too.The very best power amps in the world combine realistic harmonic fluidity with extreme speed, wherby these two aspects are one and not mutually exclusive.Mind you the last mentioned trait exists in very few amps only,GamuT,the king with regards to this.Coming back too the 272, the better points,
Large enough sound stage,quite good imaging,tightly knit depth to height proportions.Excellent LF control in the bridged mode.My favourite aspect besides speed is that the amp is quite self effacing,this allows it to be used for enjoying music over extended periods.
This my basic take on the 272,however this could go on into greater detail which I choose to stay away from.
Deaf.

thank you for the brief....deaf.

Thanks Deaf for the info...........

Firstly the NAD is not the most tranparent amp in the extreme top end,which is acceptable at its price point.Secondly it is not liquid

Deaf...
Did you find this particular "not very liquid" behavoir of the 272 only with the NAD pre/cdp and PSB speakers or was it with other equipment as well ?

Secondly, do you attribute this behavior to any partcular part/s or to the design ?

Any other amp in the same price category you would rate as good or better in this regard ?

Manek.

it has a start stop feel whereby notes do not flow into each other harmonically

the amp is quite self effacing,this allows it to be used for enjoying music over extended periods

if the notes dont flow into each other how does one enjoy music even for a minute, forget extended periods?

it seems like being thrilled with a ferrari. but it's a ferrari that stops every 100 metres and starts off again wouldn't you want it to go smoothly round curves, down sweeping stretches in one fluid poetic blur making you feel one with the machine?

could someone please enlighten me on just what 'speed' in an amp is? and the benefits? its very vague to me right now.

With regards to Manek's query,the NAD amps are very good for solid state affairs at the price with all speakers,they are just not liquid enough like a good tube design,the operative word is "good" not "all".
The NAD house sound is dry and quick without trying too impress too much,excellent HIFI, and the NAD house sound, nothing to do with parts or such, a design pholosophy for a perceived market niche, if you will.
Other amps do somethings better than NAD,but overall if you put the plus and minuses and tally, the NAD is the best according to me, at the price.

Now to answer Stevieboy, the notes flow sure, but not as effortlessly as real music, which very few amps capture the essence of.The ability of the harmonic structure and reverberant field to develope in a fully believable way is beyond the scope of most amps.To achieve the contradictary targets of musicality with neutrality is called believability,
and till you do not live with a system like this,you cannot hear the start stop feel of other amps.
Regards Deaf.

The NAD house sound is dry and quick

Exactly...something I hated about them from the moment I heard them. But yes, as deaf has rightly written

a design pholosophy for a perceived market niche, if you will.

abhi.pani schrieb:

The NAD house sound is dry and quick

well, the dry and quick of one audiophile is the crisp and neutral of another

and there are people who love the NAD house sound !

well, the dry and quick of one audiophile is the crisp and neutral of another

Ya, I understand...

Hey guys ! I know its not pertaining to this thread but Screamgigi is making a DIY valve amp, details available in the DIY section....

It would be great if people contributed a bit to that thread ! How often do people volunteer to make an amp with public opinion taken into account ?

Viren is contributing...Siva, deaf, bhagwan, jochen, and all of you, screagigi would like your opinions and views !

Manek.

Manek schrieb:

Hey guys ! Viren is contributing...Siva, deaf, bhagwan, jochen, and all of you, screagigi would like your opinions and views ! Manek.

Where is the amp ?

Can we hear it ?

Has it been finished ?

I would love to listen to it.

Please do let me know how to proceed.

Thanks,

Bhagwan

bhagwan

go into the DIY section.
Scream has started a thread called santa claus amp.

he is currently sharing the design with all and wants opinions and views on component selection. he also has made and posted a layout drawing which has been finalised...


Manek.

OK so how would anyone compare the nad 272 withe the parasound A23 power amp ?

Both approximately in the same price range....NAD 800US and parasound 999US.

Manek.

Manek, are monoblocks really that big a deal?
Isn't separate Pre/Power Amps enough?
Can one really make out the diff in a blind test?
Would love to be enlightened!
Regards,
Kamal

monoblocks being a big deal v/s a 2 channel power amp ? maybe...maybe not....dont think we can generalise.

Was hoping for more info....
Maybe when you have more time!
Kamal

Manek schrieb:

OK so how would anyone compare the nad 272 withe the parasound A23 power amp ? Both approximately in the same price range....NAD 800US and parasound 999US. Manek.

Hi Manek,
If you have anybody in the US, you could seriously look at the Ava amps (audio by van alstine). These are a definite step above Nads and Parasounds.
http://www.avahifi.c.../comparison_grid.htm
This is one brand I have never seen even one negative review on the web. There are people on audio asylum who have sold their brystons and such hyped up amps and bought these and very happy too. Frank Van Alstine is a much respected amp designer who has been doing this for more than 20 years. He is a small player who sells direct. Exactly what we guys on a shoestring budget need. He started his career modifying Hafler and Dynaco amps and have evolved into a “no – nonsense” designer.
His amps are a pure 24,000 ohm Input impedance, resistive load, not feedback
dependent, a easy load for your tube preamp.
Audio circle link:
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?board=48.0

squarewave,
My brother bought the van alstine amps and sold them. He preferred the AES. I trust his ears completely. So unless he sees value in them(if he did he would have told me so before selling them) or I get to hear them, I dont think I will go further on the AVA.

Manek.

Hi Manek,
Which model amp did your brother buy and sell ?
Is the EAR made by www.acoustic-reality.com with ice power modules ? Can you point me to the model your brother liked ?
From what I have heard those are pretty expensive amps especially the mono block ones.

Ok…Just went through their site.

They have a 500 watt at 4 ohm “eAR 502-REF stereo power amplifier” for around 2000$ and a 200watt at 4 ohm “eAR 202-REF stereo power amplifier” for 862 $. The second one is good pricing for an ice module amp. But it has an input impedance of only 15k Ohm which is not exactly tube preamp friendly. The big brother is 60kohm which is interesting.

Sorry guys, I confused AES with EAR Ignore my earlier posts…… what is AES ?

AES is a company owned by Cary Audio which makes good sounding but basic looking tube gear and their stuff is assembled in tha cary factory too. Bombaywalla currently owns the six packs tube power amps and I use the AES AE-3 tube pre with the oil cap and pot mods.

Manek.

Oh.yes…I forgot the conversation I had with you the other day regarding this
So is the power amp which your brother compared to the AVA a tube power amp by AES ?
Do AES have a website ? My google searches turned up nothing.

no he finally settled for a tube pre and SS power. he went through quite a few power amp changes before he settled for a used aragon(dont know which model). Somehow his vandy 2ce sigs sounded good with it....he says.

AES does have a website...www.audioelectronicsupply.com

manek.