Request Adive & Info On Upsampling DVD Players

You can check out the Oppo universal players at A2V. Also, even if a DVD player is region "locked", it takes just a few seconds to unlock or hack it. In fact, some dealers unlock the DVD player themselves before selling it to you!!

Amp_Nut schrieb:

I am on the threshold of buying a 40 inch flat panel TV, which is HD ready ( 720p) with HDMI inputs I am toying with the idea of buying an Upsampling DVD player to feed the panel TV. Would appreciate advice on: 1. Are any cheap / moderately priced Upsampling DVD players available in India ? 2. Model Numbers please ? 3. Approx Prices ( Gey Market is Fine ! ). Ayt this time my prime interest is for the Cheapest / best Value For Money at the entry level Upsampling DVD player. 4. Will 'Official' ( White Market ) products be region locked ? Any insights / pointers most welcome Thanks

Hi Amp_Nut,

I am assuming you are opting for a lcd panel. I would strongly recommend a plasma over an lcd. (40" is available only on lcd, its 42" for plasmas)

I still prefer the plasma to the lcd. For moving images it is simply far better.

On the dvd player you could consider the pioneer dvd 490 for about 6k.

This will upscale to 720p or 1080i. This is ofcourse region free and from the grey market.

Regards
SNV

Hi Shahrukh,

Yes, the Oppo at Rs 20 K is on my upper price limit ..

I agree that region cracking is just a matter of a few button hits on the remote. However the Zillion $ question is Which Buttons ?

An internet search is generally very informative, though sometimes time consuming, and the path sometimes infested with Viruses

The worst is when its market in India by X conmpany, but is actually a rebadged product from China or Y company. Finding the crack can get painful....

SNV: You have the eyes of a Hawk !

Yup, I am looking at the Sony S Series 40 inch LCD.

The hardest part will be getting it home.... I have been an AVID & Vocal Plasma advocate... and have influenced many of my neighbours to by Plasma.

However, I see that the availablity of Plasmas is Low, and the Panasonic plasmas available are still the P60 series from 1 year ago.

Hitachi are SUPERB, but my location can fit only 42 inches accross on the wall, so the Hitachi with Side speakers is Out. ( 46 inches accross for their 42 inch plasma. )

Also this is for my son's room.... my deal to make him shift to a small room so that I can take over his room as my audio den

Most of his watching will be Digital Cable - Cartoons.

The SONY has a very vivid presentation, ideal for cartoons, but surprisingly reproduces skin tones Very well,. The White balance too is very good, compared to the Panasonic Plasmas.

I totally agree that LCDs cant match the speed of plasmas, but the currently available crop of plasmas are rather dated ( picture wise too )

Best of all, SONY has slashed its prices, in the past week. They are now priced at Rs 92 K (HARD Bargaining involved!) officially, compared to Rs 81K + Installation in the Grey market.

Incidentally, I have still not put my money down on the table for the TV.

SNV, thanks for your pointers the Pioneer DVD player. Seems just what I am looking for ..... but my next question .... ( below )

I have been adviced by a friend that the Upsampling is best left to the TV set, and not the DVD player.

Ditto for i to p conversion.

That seems to fly against conventional wisdom / market practice.

I am in the learning mode here, so could someone please elaborate ?

Thanks

Amp_Nut schrieb:

SNV: You have the eyes of a Hawk ! Yup, I am looking at the Sony S Series 40 inch LCD. The hardest part will be getting it home.... I have been an AVID & Vocal Plasma advocate... and have influenced many of my neighbours to by Plasma. However, I see that the availablity of Plasmas is Low, and the Panasonic plasmas available are still the P60 series from 1 year ago. Hitachi are SUPERB, but my location can fit only 42 inches accross on the wall, so the Hitachi with Side speakers is Out. ( 46 inches accross for their 42 inch plasma. )

Amp_Nut,

If it works then you are welcome in advance.

If you have only 42 inches of width, then blindly buy the Panasonic 42 inch plasma pv60. This has bottom speakers, integrated tv tuner with hdmi inputs and is a hd ready model. 1024 x 768. Its a beautiful panel. Its 40.5 inches in width.

I would have recommended the Hitachi but you need 46 inches width.

Since you have been a plasma advocate yourself then i dont need to tell why a plasma is superior to even a full hd lcd.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Also this is for my son's room.... my deal to make him shift to a small room so that I can take over his room as my audio den

Wicked.

SNV schrieb:

Amp_Nut schrieb: I am on the threshold of buying a 40 inch flat panel TV, which is HD ready ( 720p) with HDMI inputs I am toying with the idea of buying an Upsampling DVD player to feed the panel TV. Would appreciate advice on: 1. Are any cheap / moderately priced Upsampling DVD players available in India ? 2. Model Numbers please ? 3. Approx Prices ( Gey Market is Fine ! ). Ayt this time my prime interest is for the Cheapest / best Value For Money at the entry level Upsampling DVD player. 4. Will 'Official' ( White Market ) products be region locked ? Any insights / pointers most welcome Thanks Hi Amp_Nut, I am assuming you are opting for a lcd panel. I would strongly recommend a plasma over an lcd. (40" is available only on lcd, its 42" for plasmas) I still prefer the plasma to the lcd. For moving images it is simply far better. On the dvd player you could consider the pioneer dvd 490 for about 6k. This will upscale to 720p or 1080i. This is ofcourse region free and from the grey market. Regards SNV

Hi SNV,
Do these 42inch plasmas support 1080p ?
LCD panels which do this at 40 inch are plenty and they are way below 2000$ in the US already.
Sony Bravia 1769 $ at amazon
http://www.amazon.co...p-HDTV/dp/B000HGQJZW
Sharp 42 inch at 1798 $ at amazon
http://www.amazon.co...id=1181905547&sr=8-6
Both do 1080P.
I suggest you look around in the gray market for good stuff like these instead of picking up a 720p LCD at retail price. These stuff become obsolete very fast.
I wonder what are sold in India.

BTW: Here are a few threads from AVS forum which discuss how people in India are being ripped off by selling old generation plasmas and lcds at highly inflated prices.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=835032

Hi Square Wave,

I reflect your sentiments.

The Flat screen availability and prices here are pathetic ! ... even the grey market is lousy

Sony HDTV screens are VERY expensive in the grey market .... well over Rs 1.5 Lakhs.

IMHO that is too much to spend when we dont even receive any HDTV.

HDTV content will emerge earliest this Divali, with some miscillaneous ( ? Senic, geography etc ??? ) channel probably on Reliance DTH.

By the time there is enough software available, I am sure the HDTV screens will have plunged to Rs 70K or less levels in India, for a 40 inch TV with bill and warranty.


We have also suffered in choice and prices of laptops, but they can be ( even officially, duty free) carried back. The situation seems to be improving for laptops, though we ( anmd actaully the rest of the world ) are way behind US prices. The low US prices holds for almost everything.... Hi Fi, CDs....

Hi Ampnut,
Which model Sony is available for 91k in India ? We are looking for a 40 inch sony which supports 1080p with around 4 – 5 milliseconds (response time) for the game testing room in our office. The X-BOX 360 outputs 1080p for some games. Response time is important for fast moving scenes in games. We do more than 60 frames / second for some games. The older LCDS had a response time above 6ms which was really bad and they had banding effects and rubbish like that. The current crop has got rid of all that.
Could you post a link to the specs to the same ?

I am an avid gamer so use it for the 360 xbox. Otherwise HDTV is just catching up in India. But these 1080p panels can be used for video too if you are willing to spend a bomb on expensive up-converters / processors and stuff like that armed with a blue ray / HDDVD player and all that. Then you will be getting into a videophile’s world………

The relevant model number is Sony KLV-40S200A.

This 40 Inch LCD TV provides 1280 x 720 making it "HD Ready" and not True HD.

The list price in mumbai is Rs. 100K, with bill and warranty. Discounts available from large retailers (NOT Sony World).

I dont think response time is too great ... probably 8msec... you will have to research on the net.

I know Zilch about gaming but the X Box seems to have received a Thumbs down for HDTV play back. The PS3 seems to be the best value for money High Definition (Blue Ray) play back system.

Anyway, the little that I know ... there is only a smatering of High Definition content curently available.

For Fast Response time : P L A S M A !

Thanks Ampnut for the info.
91k for a 720p with 8ms response time is not a wise investment in my opinion. It is already obsolete in the rest of the world.
I use the x box 360 only to play games at hi-def resolution. Most recent games play at 1080i or 1080p. I have not got into hi-def video yet. It is a very expensive hobby

91k for a 720p with 8ms response time is not a wise investment in my opinion. It is already obsolete in the rest of the world.

Ahhh well... that is there, and we are here !

IMHO, NO Purchase in High Res is an "Investment" in the sense of the performance or even the price being good today.

These emerging products will offer probably Half the price and double the performance in 18 months.... so dont spend today for tomorrow (investing)

square_wave schrieb:

SNV schrieb: Amp_Nut schrieb: I am on the threshold of buying a 40 inch flat panel TV, which is HD ready ( 720p) with HDMI inputs I am toying with the idea of buying an Upsampling DVD player to feed the panel TV. Would appreciate advice on: 1. Are any cheap / moderately priced Upsampling DVD players available in India ? 2. Model Numbers please ? 3. Approx Prices ( Gey Market is Fine ! ). Ayt this time my prime interest is for the Cheapest / best Value For Money at the entry level Upsampling DVD player. 4. Will 'Official' ( White Market ) products be region locked ? Any insights / pointers most welcome Thanks Hi Amp_Nut, I am assuming you are opting for a lcd panel. I would strongly recommend a plasma over an lcd. (40" is available only on lcd, its 42" for plasmas) I still prefer the plasma to the lcd. For moving images it is simply far better. On the dvd player you could consider the pioneer dvd 490 for about 6k. This will upscale to 720p or 1080i. This is ofcourse region free and from the grey market. Regards SNV Hi SNV, Do these 42inch plasmas support 1080p ? LCD panels which do this at 40 inch are plenty and they are way below 2000$ in the US already. Sony Bravia 1769 $ at amazon http://www.amazon.co...p-HDTV/dp/B000HGQJZW Sharp 42 inch at 1798 $ at amazon http://www.amazon.co...id=1181905547&sr=8-6 Both do 1080P. I suggest you look around in the gray market for good stuff like these instead of picking up a 720p LCD at retail price. These stuff become obsolete very fast. I wonder what are sold in India. BTW: Here are a few threads from AVS forum which discuss how people in India are being ripped off by selling old generation plasmas and lcds at highly inflated prices. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=835032

Dear Square_wave,

The 42" plasmas dont support 1080p (1920 x 1080). They support upto 1080i.
Although soon you could expect 1080p on 42" plasmas.
The Hitachi infact has plasmas with resolution of 1080 x 1024 so you get to see 1080 lines of horizontal resolution (1080i).

Pioneer has a 50 inch plasma which supports 1080p and Panasonic has a 65 inch plasma with similar specs. These 2 panels are True HD, also known as Full HD.

Unfortunately the prices in India of both lcd and plasma are pretty high.

Although in lcd, there are various brands offering full hd panels i still prefer a hd ready plasma to a full hd lcd.
There is too much motion lag (ghosting) in lcds. They are plain and simple bright. Lcds are lighter and more effecient.
The colour rendition of the plasmas is superior (IMO). Plasma panels cant be repaired and have a reflective surface and consume more electricity.
But overall picture quality is most definitely better. Most importantly, the black levels in a plasma are far better than any lcd.
Lcds inherintly cannot acheive such black levels because they are back lit.
The new generation plasma panels do not cause screen burns.
Most plasma brands have opted for 2 different technologies called - Pixel shift and Screen swipe. These technologies ensure that no screen burns occur.

Regards
SNV

Hi SNV,
I agree with you that Plasmas are inherently better than Lcd panels when it comes to natural color. They do not have the ghosting and banding seen with most Lcds. Plasmas have been around for a long time and I think the new panels are in the tenth generation or something. I have seen Videophiles preferring Hi-def plasmas over the Lcd equivalent. The latest generation of Lcd panels have solved most of the problems but still Plasmas rule when it comes to natural color. One problem with plasma was getting more pixel resolution into smaller size panels. For example, you can get full HD in Lcd panels which are less than 40 inches. This is very convenient for Gamers and others who want hi-res without the gigantic size of Plasmas. The big plasmas need quite a big room. I think 52 is the smallest size plasma which supports full HD right ? That is quite big for most homes and will cost a bomb too.

SNV said :

They support upto 1080i. Although soon you could expect 1080p on 42" plasmas. Most plasma brands have opted for 2 different technologies called - Pixel shift and Screen swipe. These technologies ensure that no screen burns occur.

thanks for a blanaced and informative post.

1. Why is that ( What are the tech constraints ) 1080p plasmas have not yet emerged ? I would have thought that the faster response time of the Plasma would have facilitated p ?

2. What is : - Pixel shift and Screen swipe.

Can you please explain or provide pointers for additional reading ?

Thanks

I have been adviced by a friend that the Upsampling is best left to the TV set, and not the DVD player. Ditto for i to p conversion. That seems to fly against conventional wisdom / market practice. I am in the learning mode here, so could someone please elaborate ?

HELP Guys...

PLEASE share yr wisdom and experience.

Thanks

Amp_Nut schrieb:

SNV said : They support upto 1080i. Although soon you could expect 1080p on 42" plasmas. Most plasma brands have opted for 2 different technologies called - Pixel shift and Screen swipe. These technologies ensure that no screen burns occur. thanks for a blanaced and informative post. 1. Why is that ( What are the tech constraints ) 1080p plasmas have not yet emerged ? I would have thought that the faster response time of the Plasma would have facilitated p ? 2. What is : - Pixel shift and Screen swipe. Can you please explain or provide pointers for additional reading ? Thanks

Sir, from my limited knowledge :

Fujitsu was the inventor of plasmas. I believe they ran out of resources as they spend a hell lot of money in the R&D towards the invention of plasma.
They then joint hands with Hitachi for production. Hence, Hitachi-Fujitsu Ltd.(I do not know the status today)
The top 5 companies in the world who manufactured in house in Japan and they used A+ grade panels. They are - Fujitsu, Hitachi, Pioneer, Panasonic & Nec.

Years later the other commercial brands followed and then we had the lower grade panels around the world. Unfortunately for us we live in the 3rd world and so were dumped with these low grade and low res panels (852 x 480, wvga) and these are still available.

Honestly i dont have a clue as to why they have not launched 1080p 42" plasmas. I do know one thing that the cost involved to make a 1080p plasma panel is quite high. Plasmas have to compete with lcds. Lcd prices are falling and they have cheaper full hd models already available.

I believe its only a matter of time. Flat panels in any case is the future. It basically has to get into serious mass production and price wise a 1080p 42" plasma will be much more expensive than their lcd rivals.

When it comes to bigger sizes, one is basically catering to the elite.
This is were you have clients with 'price no object'. They want the best and so plasma manufacturers can think of manufacturing lower quantities but at high prices. 42" being the largest selling size in the world, the competition is fierce. So the companies can afford to match the price because there is a market for it.

For your information, when Pioneer launched their 50" Full HD(1080p) panel it was double the price compared to their 50" HD Ready. That is the kinda difference in the price when one has to make a 1080p plasma panel.

Pixel shift : For example, when you see a star movies logo on the panel, the pixels used to generate this image shift every few seconds (not sure of the exact timing) by one pixel so that a screen burn doesnt occur.

Even after this was invented, there were problems because shifting by one pixel doesnt solve the problem completely as the logo might have the same information when shifted by one pixel.

Screen Wipe : This basically wipes the entire screen. You can program the timer to 60 minutes or 30 minutes and it automatically wipes the screen.
This will ensure that no screen burns occur.


Regards
SNV

square_wave schrieb:

Hi SNV, I agree with you that Plasmas are inherently better than Lcd panels when it comes to natural color. They do not have the ghosting and banding seen with most Lcds. Plasmas have been around for a long time and I think the new panels are in the tenth generation or something. I have seen Videophiles preferring Hi-def plasmas over the Lcd equivalent. The latest generation of Lcd panels have solved most of the problems but still Plasmas rule when it comes to natural color. One problem with plasma was getting more pixel resolution into smaller size panels. For example, you can get full HD in Lcd panels which are less than 40 inches. This is very convenient for Gamers and others who want hi-res without the gigantic size of Plasmas. The big plasmas need quite a big room. I think 52 is the smallest size plasma which supports full HD right ? That is quite big for most homes and will cost a bomb too.

Dear square_wave,

You are absolutely right. Full hd options on plasmas are not availble in smaller sizes. One has to opt for lcds.
Not very long ago, both Hitachi and Panasonic had 37" hd ready plasmas.
Unfortuntely they have stopped manufacturing the 37" panels.

Regards
SNV

Amp_Nut schrieb:

However, I see that the availablity of Plasmas is Low, and the Panasonic plasmas available are still the P60 series from 1 year ago.

Dear Amp_Nut,

The new P70 series of Panasonic is now available. The new models are cheaper and better.

Regards
SNV