Speaker positioning

Arj, I SO VERY MUCH agree with you, that Speaker Positioning can yield HUGE changes in the sound quality... FAR more than that of Speaker cables and interconnects.

Sadly, its the most overlooked, and Little spoken about.

The few masters of this art are VERY Tight lipped about it, and are Loathe to providing ANY info and pointers of how to get it right ( Hastily I may add, that I am NOT referring to the 2 Mumbai based audiophiles that visited yr home ! )

Having being Short Changed on Precisely Such a service by a commercial member who sometimes posts on this forum, I decided Not to turn a 'deaf' ear to the situation (" I will Properly Position the speakers for you in your room, if you buy from me" I was promised, when I bought my amp & speakers from him,) I have decided to take on speaker positioning as a 'secondary hobby' and learn thru experience as well as painful (but rewarding!) trial & error.

The article that you have provided a Pointer to is VERY nice, and to quote from the article:

This quest to find the optimal position for speakers, if not diligently undertaken, can result in thousands of lost dollars as a listener roams from one speaker to another without really understanding the problem may not be the equipment they are using ... rather the location of the equipment. As in real estate, the golden rule here is location, location, location.

Would Love to hear from others on this thread, and even more so from anyone who has tried the "Inverted" approach outlined in your link.

Guys please DO write in on speaker positioning.... Its too important to Not address

Spkr placement is an art but certainly one can develop some skills buy putting some effort, ampnut.

Its not really rocket science I would think. Give it a go...

When you do it your self there is immense satisfaction or only yourself to blame :-)

I too struggled with it but have managed to setup sprks to my liking over time.

What helped me most was a rigid tray with heavy duty castor wheels and a measuring tape.

Manek

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Would Love to hear from others on this thread, and even more so from anyone who has tried the "Inverted" approach outlined in your link. Guys please DO write in on speaker positioning.... Its too important to Not address

I have tried the Inverted approach on Subs ie place the sub in the listener position and prowl around the room corners to get the best sound with very good effect (And the incredulous look my wife gave me...! )
regarding another "tip" if the bass sounds good but the treble/mids a bit too peaky or the sound too sharp then tip the speakers up by 1-5 degrees (2x25 paise coins)

tried this at my place and at Abhis as well with great results.

Manek schrieb:

Spkr placement is an art but certainly one can develop some skills buy putting some effort, ampnut. Its not really rocket science I would think. Give it a go... When you do it your self there is immense satisfaction or only yourself to blame :-) I too struggled with it but have managed to setup sprks to my liking over time. What helped me most was a rigid tray with heavy duty castor wheels and a measuring tape. Manek

true. one problem is tht sometimes you get into a catch 22. the soundstage depth is better in one config but the soundstage width in another..what do you choose

regarding another "tip" if the bass sounds good but the treble/mids a bit too peaky or the sound too sharp then tip the speakers up by 1-5 degrees (2x25 paise coins) tried this at my place and at Abhis as well with great results.

Yep, that was an amazing tweak. I am not sure if just two coins would do or couple more are required...but it typically helps only if the sound is sharper than usual..I did not experience much difference with my previous Dyns with this tweak though.

maybe what id does is reduce the impact of floor reflection and also puts on below the tweeters center axis . I guess this takes the tweeters dipersion while the woofer not being affected...just a guess

Hello All !

This is a very nice topic - one I could learn a lot from;
Speaker placement is a 'science & an art' in my opinion.

The science part is to study the x-over & driver config & determine where the speaker would sound 'correct'
The art part is to do with 'experience' & 'ability to listen'
One has to be a Schumi [F1] / Alain Prost [professor] not only can you drive fast, but come back to the pit & tell the engineer what was wrong & where the problem could be !

I too 'struggle' with 2 subs in a small room [3 woofers per sub] and to get them to play 'with' the stand mount is an uphill task....

Let us keep this topic open...

Couple of basic things I have done over the years;

a] clap in the room

b] talk in the room & walk around

c] random - place the speaker

d] position the speaker to get an 'optimised' bass response

e] play around with toe in

f] adjust the 'tilt'

g] room treatment - carpet / courtains / pillows etc.

h] cardas ratio

i] measure & work by the book - but this is a 'last' resort.

Keep an open mind & play around - there is so much to learn.....

Hi,
Very interesting and rewarding excercise for all music listeners

I would like to share my exp with you all.

1) Real estate is very important, you will sure have to make compromises with what you have.

2. It is very easy to overload your room with LF energy.

3. The speakers dispersion and driver configuration playes a big role in its placement.

4. Reducing reflections from side walls and either one of ceiling or floors and never forget the wall behind the listening position.

Above are the minimum treatment one should undertake

I start with playing electric bass guitar heavy recording to find out the positions where the LF energy is max amd minimum. Playing continous LF tone made it difficult for me to get the nodes. Impluse nature of the Bass shows you how LF behaves.

Start of with the widest possible spk along with equal triangle listeneing position.

Check for center image + depth and width

Toe in or out changes both the above plus the tonal balance

Vary sitting height to get a overall balanced sound.

Repeat the above for at least a month.

Do not forget to make drastic changes in position breaking all what the wise men have thought you:)

Regards
Anil

Hey, lots of GREAT suggestions... ! THANKS !

However, the BEST suggestion - IMHO - was from

ani:

Do not forget to make drastic changes in position breaking all what the wise men have taught you

I would like to share my learning/experience/frustration on speaker positioning

1. A tip, if you want to move your spiked speakers / stands, place coins under each spike. Can slide the speakers more easily, without scratching the floor.

2. Do not have ANY sealed / closed cavities ( like wardrobes ) in the room. If you MUST ( WAF) try to get the door 'Louvered' so that there is no trapped air in the cavity.

3. I have had the MOST difficulty in getting the Bass right. As ani has so correctly pointed out:

It is very easy to overload your room with LF energy.

It has been a PARTICULAR Problem for me since my speakers are large, and have an LF Response down to 17 Hz :
-10 dB @ 17 Hz, -6 dB @ 20 Hz (-3 dB @ 24 Hz)

Hence for me, getting the Bass right is the Most Important step.

Link To My Speakers

Perception of the entire freq range is inter-related and over blown bass tends also to create a feeling that treble is lacking.....

Hence, My focus has always been to get the Bass Right first, then cater to all else.

4. Ani, I liked your tip on listening to Bass guitar, rather than test tones...

However, I have found the REAL TRAPS TEST TONE CD very, very helpful.

Read about it here :REAL TRAPS TEST TONE CD

and the 3.2 MB Free DOWNLOAD is here

PLEASE Have the patience to sit thru it, it will show you just how bad your room is (below 200 Hz), even if you thought you have an acoustically decent room. You DO NOT need a meter... just your ears, in the listening position.

I Would LOVE to receive feedback from anyone who tries this CD.

5. A few months ago, I (accidentally) positioned my speakers by shifting them about 2 inches side watys. Suddenly about 80% of the Bass over hang that was plauging my system vanished. I think that happened because the speakers got positioned at the Node of the freq that was creating a standing wave (resonance) in my room.

Now I suspect that Maths and rocket science cannot accurately predict this behavior and tell me exactly where to place the speaker. Best done by trial and error.

To improve on the success rate of Hitting a sweet spot, I think that the "Inverted Placement" pointer from Arj is the best and fastest way of doing things.

I plan to place 1 speaker at my listening position ( which is fixed along the central axis of the room, and sit where the speaker would be located, moving laterally slowing, to listen for a Bass null. That would be the locating of the Final speaker position.

6. I have found it relatively easy to position speakers for Spatial imaging and treble energy. The best treble is obtained by either pointing the speakers to ear level for more treble and away if you have aggressive tweeters. ( Moving to or away could be in the Horizontal or Vertical direction)

Sometimes - a few dergees change in toe-in / tilt could be the equivalent of Rs 10,000 (or more) spent in upgrading cables !

7. Often I have found BETTER soundstaging by pointing the speakers toed in by only a few degrees, instead of the Classic 'Equilateral/ Isosceles triangle' rule.


While I have not tried the 'Inverted Speaker" approach, I am really keen to try it out, even though it will be a PAIN to move not only my speakers but also the rest of the system (to get the wires to reach the speaker)

Before I get to that back breaking job, if any of you have more tips and pointers, do let me know.