My first speaker audition

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Beitrag
Voodoo_CHild
Stammgast
#1 erstellt: 23. Okt 2006, 10:26
Hi Guys,
My friend and I just finished a fulfilling weekend of speaker auditions . Wanted to share the experience with the forum.

Considering the fact that this is my first 'ever' audition of any kind audiophile equipment, please consider my views with a proverbial grain of salt .

The speakers that were auditioned were :

1) Tannoy F2 and Reveal 6
2) Kef iQ3
3) Wharfedale 8.1, 9.1 and 8.4

The speakers were driven by NADC325BEE in all the auditions.

Auditioned the Tannoy F2 and Reveal 6 at Music Ranch in Bangalore. The source was a TEAC CDP.

To my ears the Reveal 6 were excellent. Initially the volume was kind of loud and was hurting my ears...but after getting the volume level right they sounded really good. The F2's in comparison sounded very ordinary and didn't seem to get me involved in the music at all (I guess this is expected considering the fact that the Reveal's cost approximately 10,000 bucks more than the F2's ).

Listened to tracks mainly from Pink Floyd, Led Zepplin, The Doors, AC/DC and Nirvana.

The drum bit on Led Zepplin's 'Moby Dick' sounded surreal on the Reveal 6 (I don't know if it was because of the room acoustics or our seating arrangement or the fact that it was the first time I was listening to the track on good speakers, I seemed to enjoy the track the best on the Reveal's). The guitar plucks and even the breathing of the singer were discernible to my amateur ears. At last, I understand what you guys mean by soundstaging. Felt like the artists were right there in the room playing for us, especially the drummer.

Next auditioned the Kef iQ3 at PRO FX and...was disaapointed
with the experience. It sounded pretty ordinary eventhough,
decent interconnects were used (the interconnects used in Music Ranch were similar to the ones which are bundled along with normally available DVD players). The source was Chord CDP.

Listened to the same set of tracks as our earlier audition and, the music sounded like it lacked energy and character on the Kef's. The same artists who sounded so good on the Reveal sounded like they had run out of all their energy and were playing for the heck of it (don't know if this makes sense).

To be fair...I felt the room made a huge difference to the way the Kef's sounded. It was not an isolated listening area (the speakers were placed right next to the door and, people were continously walking in and out). The room was too big and there were a lot of metallic and glass shelfs all around the speakers ( I don't know if this affects the music...). I feel all of this contributed in makeing the Kef's sound very flat and lifeless. Will go back sometime to give it a proper listen.

Last but not least, we auditioned the Wharfedale's at Decibels. The source was a Quad CDP.

We started off with the 8.1's and they sounded really warm and easy on the ears, but lacked the bass that I feel is required to enjoy rock music. However, the mids and highs sounded good without any harshness.

The 9.1's were better in terms of the bass. There was slightly more bass and like the 8.1's the mids and highs sounded good. However, felt both the 8.1's and 9.1's could put you to sleep even while playing AC/DC ??? Not because they sound boring, but they have an easy, laid back kind of sound.

The 8.4's are something else...they sounded awesome. The sound was full, deeper and oozed with energy. Accepted that these are floor standers and will obviously deliver more bass, but even the mids and highs are more detailed. Felt like we were actually sitting in the studio while Led Zepplin and Pink Floyd were cutting an album.

The NAD didn't seem to have any problem in driving the Wharfdale 8.4's. Even with the volume knob turned up only till the 9 O'Clock position the sound was pretty impressive.

We were surprised to learn that the 8.4's retail in Bangalore for about 19,000 bucks (Reveal costs about 26,000), felt it was a lot of bang for the money.

So that sums my first experience with hi-fi.

Needed a small clarification on the subject of frequency response. The person at PRO FX told us that the Kef iQ3 has a frequency response of 45Hz - 40 kHz. So I asked him what is the use of having an upper frequency response of 45Khz when the human audible range is only between 20Hz - 20KHz. He said that higher the frequency response better is the reproduction of the highs . I somehow can't seem to relate how a higher frequency response cutoff would help in better reproduction of the high frequencies (upto 20KHz). Can somone please throw some light on this.


Still need to visit Absolute Phase (Dali Concept series) and ARN Systems (Monitor Audio).

Stevieboy...did contact ARN systems, they might be getting the Bronze B2's in a couple of weeks time. So once they have it we can check them out together.
stevieboy
Stammgast
#2 erstellt: 23. Okt 2006, 11:09
sure thing voodoo child. do lemme know when. i want to listen to the monitor audio silver rs1s too. a weekend would be preferable. good to see you enjoying your auditions. i'll get some good hendrix along. since you like rock i think the monitor audio bronze's will suit you better than the wharfedale 8.4s. good speakers with a kick. quite detailed too. unfortunately i heard them while they were only 1 hour old and it was quite difficult to judge whether the hard sound was due to the metal driver or due to the newness of the speaker.

i think i ought to go have a listen to the reveals too. quite close to my place.

re the higher frequencies some guys feel that even though you cant hear it, it adds to the ambience. i don't know if it's true so i'll just
square_wave
Inventar
#3 erstellt: 23. Okt 2006, 12:24
Looking at your taste in music……..stay clear of the 8.4’s. I used to own a pair. Upgraded to something far far better and made in Bangalore itself….. 8.4’s are good speakers for the money but definitely not for Metalica, Led zep or Nirvana. Monitor audio would be a better bet. The Kefs are pretty good with all rock material. I don’t know what happened with the setup at pro fx.
SDhawan
Stammgast
#4 erstellt: 23. Okt 2006, 12:50
Regarding the frequencies > 20 KHz

It is said that they add to the impact of "sudden attack" of transients. Moreover the distortions of the speaker are shifted to inaudible zone.

Difficult to swallow? Add your proverbial grain of salt !!!



Your impressions about the equipment you auditioned are quite alright. Only surprise being the KEF+Chord. But trust your ears only.


[Beitrag von SDhawan am 23. Okt 2006, 12:52 bearbeitet]
Arj
Inventar
#5 erstellt: 23. Okt 2006, 13:34
someone once did mention that above 20khz the tactlile influence in our skull remains..dont know about is since i took this with a decently sized lump of salt.

its especially disinteresting to ùme as once you cross 30 years of age, you rarely hear above 15khz. !

in fact in london I remember a mention of a shop which wanted to keep out dogs had a 20Khz tone played loudly and also drove away most of teenagers.

only folks who could really ignore it were men above 30 and kids who played their iPOds really loud !


[Beitrag von Arj am 23. Okt 2006, 13:42 bearbeitet]
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#6 erstellt: 23. Okt 2006, 15:09


I remember a mention of a shop which wanted to keep out dogs had a 20Khz tone played loudly


Sounds like a Big, Electronic mosquito repellant
abhi.pani
Inventar
#7 erstellt: 23. Okt 2006, 16:49
Hi Voodoo_Child,
Good to see yet another budding audiophile. Gives a really nice feeling that our community in India is not stagnant and infact quite growing.
Regarding your selection, If I may, I would sincerely suggest you to take a look at Sonodyne Sonus 2605 + Sonodyne Pre-Power Stereo amp.
Today I heard them again for a few minutes and I was reaffirmed that they sound really good for the price especially with their Pre-Power Stereo amp. Do check them out. The Sonodyne Listening room is a bit congested nowadays and considering all glass all-around they dont have a friendly room to perform but still you can understand their potential definitely. To my ears they still have the coolest bass in the entry level hifi. I have used "coolest" because I dont expect a lot of accuracy at this price point, but if they are able to deliver clean tight and deep bass without much of exagerration, I am happy.....and thats what the Sonus do so well. Mids and highs are also warm and involving. They deserve a isten especially when they are paired together (2605 + Pre-power amp).

For the Diamond-8.4 they do sound good but looking at your taste of music, I feel you may outgrow them very soon.

To me Sonus is still the pick of the day.


[Beitrag von abhi.pani am 23. Okt 2006, 16:57 bearbeitet]
juggy_25
Ist häufiger hier
#8 erstellt: 23. Okt 2006, 17:55
Gawd, this is so confusing! :-)

Abhi, between the Marantz AVR(4500, 5600 or 7500) and the Sonodyne Pre-Power, which one would you choose?
abhi.pani
Inventar
#9 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 03:42
Juggy,
Comparing a AVR (which are never meant for stereo) to a Stereo Pre-power looks a bit silly. If you are willing to have a HT+Stereo using a common amplification unit then Marantz AVRs are good. They do a decent job for stereo as well. But I wont compare them to the Sonodyne Pre-power. This pre-power does a lot better job than the Marantz AVR.
stevieboy
Stammgast
#10 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 05:20


I remember a mention of a shop which wanted to keep out dogs had a 20Khz tone played loudly



Sounds like a Big, Electronic mosquito repellant



there's even a guy who's making pots out money out of the device!
Voodoo_CHild
Stammgast
#11 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 10:50
Hi,
Thanks for your inputs...btw what do you guys think about the Diamond 9.5's, would they do justice to my kind of music. Haven't auditioned them yet...thought it might be worth a listen.

To be honest, I'm quite confused with the responses to my post. Thought the 8.4's sounded good ...

How do the Jamo range of speakers cope with rock music. Heard a pair of floor standers (don't remember the model) at Cinebels. They were playing Jazz....my first impression was that they were kind of bright.

I will give the Kef's another listen when I get time and, this time in a proper listening room.

Abhi...will definitely try and audition the Sonus 2605. I have already purchased the NADC325BEE amp...so would the Sonus be a good match with the NAD.

Right now, I'm sitting on the fence whether to go in for bookshelfs or floorstanders . Are there any good floorstanders available for 25,000 bucks .
Kamal
Stammgast
#12 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 15:08
Hi VC, congrats on your audition,& thx for sharing your impressions;this way, we all learn & collective knowledge grows.
Do take your time auditioning spkrs until ypo find a pair that sounds good to YOUR ears & fits your budget.
If the Kefs fit your budget, do give them another chance-they have a sound that will continue to please even when your musical tastes mature.However ,if your preference is strongly tilted in favour of impact/slam & "upfront" sound,
do audition JBLs
And, plz do continue to share your experiences in your quest.
Good Luck & Good Hunting,
Kamal
abhi.pani
Inventar
#13 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 15:59

Thanks for your inputs...btw what do you guys think about the Diamond 9.5's, would they do justice to my kind of music.


I found 8.4 to be better than 9.5. Just because the Diamond 9.0 series is the lattest variant doesnt necessarily mean they are better.


How do the Jamo range of speakers cope with rock music. Heard a pair of floor standers (don't remember the model) at Cinebels. They were playing Jazz....my first impression was that they were kind of bright.


Jamos gets good only 40k upwards...there entry level stuffs are crap IMO.


I will give the Kef's another listen when I get time and, this time in a proper listening room.


Kef iQ3 is a bookshelf speaker and it specifically lacks bass. But tonally they are good. For your kind of music look at iQ5 (if you can afford them).


Abhi...will definitely try and audition the Sonus 2605. I have already purchased the NADC325BEE amp...so would the Sonus be a good match with the NAD.


They should do well. I still have the gut feeling that Sonus may just do the trick for you. If possible take your amp with you and lets see what comes out.


Right now, I'm sitting on the fence whether to go in for bookshelfs or floorstanders . Are there any good floorstanders available for 25,000 bucks


Listen to all speakers with a open mind without thinking a lot about what they are...if you find a speaker which sounds good to you, it could be for you regardless of its dimensions.
kousik_s
Ist häufiger hier
#14 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 16:25
Just to add:

I have demoed Sonus 2605 with SiA102R (Sonodyne Int Amp). The amp indeed loses composure above 50dB which goes from 0 to 60dB. On the Sonus 2605, it is similar to Wharfedale 9.5, with boomy bass and emphasised vocals. I demoed a Vanessa Mae CD which I used on other auditions and I knew I have heard better stuff. With the Pre-Power, there would be sufficient power. Actually I wanted to demo with Pre-Power but they did not have it on stock. However, I think, the sound should not change much - basically rock speakers.

The 2 two speakers I was impressed with are Monitor Audio B2 and Dali Concept 6. I am sure the new MA BR2 (which replaced B2) is better. As for Dali, I have really hunted down the net - forums, review sites for feedback on these speakers. The strength of Dali is details - which is warm too and non fatiguing as I listened to it for 2 hours continuously. I could not find ANY english review of these speakers - although there were some on Ikon 6. Both these speakers are perfect match for NAD C320BEE/C325BEE.

I may be laughed at, but may I dare to say that the Dalis are indeed the best speakers in 30-40K range. Same for Dali Concept 2. Although I haven't listened to Tannoy.

Thanks.
Arj
Inventar
#15 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 16:30

kousik_s schrieb:


I may be laughed at, but may I dare to say that the Dalis are indeed the best speakers in 30-40K range. Same for Dali Concept 2. Although I haven't listened to Tannoy.

Thanks.


I am sure noone would dare do that !!

somehow market perception has a lot to do with speaker sounds..dali is very under represented in that matter but they make some great speakers.

I have been led to believe that that are getting resurgent these days hence not at all surprised with thefact that they sound good.

most danish speakers proudly proclaim to be very "honest" i think i read that in stereophile once

tannoys are very nice speakers as well in fact one of the oldest speaker lines in business who deal in everything from studio monitors to high quality PA systems..

I was very impressed with the dimension series but were priced way too above my ability to pay !
Kamal
Stammgast
#16 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 17:28
VC,by now you have recd a fair number of recommendations which must be making you a bit confused!
I have a suggestion re your auditioning efforts, viz, make it more systematic & record your impressions,which will help you to come to a sound decision.
I suggest that you go to the chesky website, look for the track listing of "the Ultimate Demonstration Disc"
The track list gives you the parameters useful for a methodical & thorough auditioning.
Draw up a matrix listing these parameters, and assign number values to each parameter,say,on a 5 pt scale, for each speaker you audition;you can ,of course, give weightage to the parameters you consider more important.
At the end of the exercise you will have a detailed record of your experiences which will be of great help when you finally take the plunge.
Good Luck!
Kamal


[Beitrag von Kamal am 24. Okt 2006, 17:42 bearbeitet]
SDhawan
Stammgast
#17 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 19:31
Hi !

Chesky demo disc is a very good idea.

When you audition, do so with your eyes closed i.e. don't look at the speaker size, type and brand. Just "look" at the sound - and that should look beautiful...

BTW Boston CR-97 are a floorstanders that gel very well with NAD 320BEE - I have heard the combination. Try it out if they are available at your location.

I think Tannoy Reveal 6 should be a serious contender... If you miss the bass with them, you could later add a good sub (when you have more funds).
abhi.pani
Inventar
#18 erstellt: 25. Okt 2006, 03:58

I have demoed Sonus 2605 with SiA102R (Sonodyne Int Amp). The amp indeed loses composure above 50dB which goes from 0 to 60dB.


On my recent audition of Sonus 2605, I was very dissapointed with the above mentioned combo. This amp just cant control the LF of the Sonus 2605, thats one of the reason they might have sounded boomy. Another reason could be the all side glass showroom which has terrible effect on sound unless you are within 3-4 ft of the speakers (near field).
They have now connected the Sonus to Pre-Power and they sounded really good for the price. Infact its a different story all together than what you have heard before.
Voodoo_CHild
Stammgast
#19 erstellt: 21. Nov 2006, 07:53
Hi Guys,
Its been almost a month since my last audition...still waiting to audition the B2's .

The dealer in Bangalore (ARN systems) has B4's available for audition (not sure when he would be getting the shipment of B2's though) . I was wondering, if it would be a fair method to evaluate the performance of the B2's, by auditioning the B4's and then attributing lower bass impact and extension to gauge the performance of the B2's i.e. B2 = B4 (with reduced bass impact and extension) :?. I feel that both B2 and B4 will have the same signature sound.

I have had the NAD for almost a couple of months now and can't wait to complete the setup . If there is any other place or forum member in Bangalore who is willing to let me audition the B2's, please let me know.
Kamal
Stammgast
#20 erstellt: 22. Nov 2006, 12:44
You may not arrive at a fair conclusion if you hear the two at difft places.
Wait till the B2's come, and then audition them side by side , playing the same ,fav track.
Patience...you'll have to live with what you buy!
Kamal
Voodoo_CHild
Stammgast
#21 erstellt: 19. Jan 2007, 16:39
Myself and my friend had a latest round of audition last weekend...

After a few repeated phone calls to the guy at ARN Systems for the last couple of months, finally he bought down the Monitor Audio Bronze BR2 bookshelves from Mumbai. It was kind of an endless wait since October and I really wanted to check these babies before deciding to buy any speakers for my NAD C325BEE. In the meanwhile, my NAD had done a bit of run-in for about 25 hrs with my decade old PHILIPS speakers (My mom had to live without any FM radio for this period and my Dad doesnt have an idea what I am upto, he remarked that my NAD was like the ones he saw in barber shops ). I was pleasantly surprised to see my oldies sound much better with NAD than when they were connected to PHILIPS 'Powerhouse' system.

Coming back to auditions, we had a hard time in chosing the songs to listen. You've grown up listening to a lot of classics and now to narrow it down to an hour of the best you've liked is very tough. Final selection was biased towards Pink Floyd psychedelia and reminding ourselves that we need to test the equipment as well

List:
Wish you were here - Floyd, WYWH album...One of my favorite guitar riffs by David Gilmour
Tears in Heaven - Best of MTV Unplugged...Eric Clapton and his fingers sliding on the Acoustic guitar
Raiders on the storm - The best of Doors... Jim Morrison & the Piano sounds from Ray Manzarek
Come away with me - Norah Jones...Immersing Vocals
Time - Floyd, DSOTM album...Timeless classic
Lost for words - Floyd, Division bell...Lost for words!
Dazed & Confused - Led Zeppelin...orgasmic high
Moby Dick - Led Zeppelin II...John Bonham
Hells Bells - AC/DC, Back in Black...Energy levels

The audition itself was good with lot of hiccups leading to it.
The room size was pretty much the same size as my room, so I felt better.
Setup:
Source - NAD T514 or T524 Player (unsure)
Amp - NAD C325BEE
Speaker Cables- Belden
Interconnects - forgot to note them

Well...looks like Bronze 2s lived upto the hype you guys created...Out of the box, I felt they were a bit bright, but I liked their clarity and bass. Even the midrange was pleasing enough. Maybe once they run in for a few hours, I feel they should sound even better.

Later we auditioned B4 floorstanders, but were not impressed, felt the room itself was not big enough to accomadate their sound.

Finally, among the ones I've auditioned, left out Tannoy Fusion F2, KEF iQ3 and Wharfedale 8.1, I narrowed down on the contenders:

Tannoy Reveal 6 studio monitor - reveal too much, very bright, clinical rather musical

Wharfedale 9.1 - warm sounding very good speakers, but lack a bit of bass.

Wharfedale 8.4 - they are one of the best floors below 20K, we loved them.

MA Bronze BR2 bookshelves - I've decided to buy these babies...they make a good match with my NAD C325BEE...also I liked them...In the end, I guess that's what matters the most. In a lighter vein, I still have some age left to Rock (single@27 yrs)...I may move on more into Classical, Jazz etc. once I get married...to find some warmth

My Source is a Philips DVP 642K, which I would upgrade to a dedicated CD player after a few months and the first priority is to get a pair of rock solid stands.

The ones I was unable to audition were Monitor Audio RS1, Dali Concept 2 and PSB Image B15 & B25... Don't really know if I missed them.

Thank ou everyone for all the suggestions and info...kind of a 'Welcome to the machine' feel to all this

The ARN guy has quoted me a price of 19K, let me know if is this a good price or what do you guys think is a reasonable price?
Also suggestions needed for interconnects and speaker cables.

Cheers!
Arj
Inventar
#22 erstellt: 20. Jan 2007, 04:16

Voodoo_CHild schrieb:
M
MA Bronze BR2 bookshelves - I've decided to buy these babies...they make a good match with my NAD C325BEE...also I liked them...In the end, I guess that's what matters the most. In a lighter vein, I still have some age left to Rock (single@27 yrs)...I may move on more into Classical, Jazz etc. once I get married...to find some warmth

My Source is a Philips DVP 642K, which I would upgrade to a dedicated CD player after a few months and the first priority is to get a pair of rock solid stands.


:prost



Congrats on a very good choice and also in going about the purchase the right way. Am sure you will have many years of enjoyment with those babies !

It is no surprise that you did not like the floorstanders..In most "Affordable" ranges the bookshelf has always outperformed the floorstander in my experience ,,as the extra bass the floorstander brings up is at the expense of SQ :)..anyways that my opinion


warmth is very very subjective and you will be able to get your sound by placement changes and simple acoustic principle..lots of folks here in the forum can help you with tips on that

for cables the typical "Norm" is to 10% of your budget..just buy the best/thickest you can afford for speaker cables and you are done..dont think about it after that as then you will fall down a very slippery path to the dark side


[Beitrag von Arj am 20. Jan 2007, 04:20 bearbeitet]
Kamal
Stammgast
#23 erstellt: 21. Jan 2007, 19:51
Congrats, VC, & happy listening!
As regards"rock solid stands". do take a look at the thread"my new stands" in the DIY section; Neono made an excellent pair for himself @ Rs 600/- a pair!
Do get in touch with him for more details.
Kamal
Voodoo_CHild
Stammgast
#24 erstellt: 23. Jan 2007, 16:23

Arj schrieb:

Voodoo_CHild schrieb:
M
MA Bronze BR2 bookshelves - I've decided to buy these babies...they make a good match with my NAD C325BEE...also I liked them...In the end, I guess that's what matters the most. In a lighter vein, I still have some age left to Rock (single@27 yrs)...I may move on more into Classical, Jazz etc. once I get married...to find some warmth

My Source is a Philips DVP 642K, which I would upgrade to a dedicated CD player after a few months and the first priority is to get a pair of rock solid stands.


:prost



Congrats on a very good choice and also in going about the purchase the right way. Am sure you will have many years of enjoyment with those babies !

It is no surprise that you did not like the floorstanders..In most "Affordable" ranges the bookshelf has always outperformed the floorstander in my experience ,,as the extra bass the floorstander brings up is at the expense of SQ :)..anyways that my opinion


warmth is very very subjective and you will be able to get your sound by placement changes and simple acoustic principle..lots of folks here in the forum can help you with tips on that

for cables the typical "Norm" is to 10% of your budget..just buy the best/thickest you can afford for speaker cables and you are done..dont think about it after that as then you will fall down a very slippery path to the dark side :D


Thanks Arj

I guess you are right on the 'affordable' (not sure if thats the right word) floorstanders. Maybe I should listen to some higher end floorstanders and see how they sound. Another thing I've found on course of these auditions is that most of the audition rooms are of medium size. I felt that was an issue to properly evaluate the Diamond 8.4s or Monitor Audio B4 floors which otherwise might have changed my perception given a bigger room

Coming to the 'warmth' part, I was just kidding ...in the sense, I've found wives of the veteran forum members really 'Rock' and you guys 'Jazz' it up really well..

OK..from a more serious point of view, I will share the details of placements later and get some inputs from you guys to tweak it to sound better..

Around 4-5K, can you suggest some cable brands I need to consider for speaker cables? What about interconnects? Can I accomodate them as well within this range? Around a month back, we met Mr Murthy of 'Tools & Trades' who is highly regarded in this forum. He does seem to have a good sense about the cables, stands and upgrades and doing them the right way. Need to check if he can get them done for me within my price range.

Among all this skating, will make sure not to slip on 'The Thin Ice' ..
Voodoo_CHild
Stammgast
#25 erstellt: 23. Jan 2007, 16:25

Kamal schrieb:
Congrats, VC, & happy listening!
As regards"rock solid stands". do take a look at the thread"my new stands" in the DIY section; Neono made an excellent pair for himself @ Rs 600/- a pair!
Do get in touch with him for more details.
Kamal


Thanks Kamal

I've checked the stands you referred to and I'm planning to do something similar. Neono has indeed done a great DIY will get in touch with him for more..
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