My first DIY project

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Ronnie22
Ist häufiger hier

#1 erstellt: 15. Aug 2005, 12:37

Hi all,

Finally completed my first DIY project. Actually diy in terms of assembling the components. Since this was my first project, I didn't want to design a crossover and cabinet from scratch. Started off that way at first but someone on diyaudio suggested a model to me that seemed pretty good. I took the advice and started off with this model.

http://users.ece.gatech.edu/%7Emleach/labsp2/

It was good experience. I got most of my stuff from Corrson. The other stuff like mdf, acoustic absorbent, wires, sealant, laminate, fevicol, araldite, etc were procured locally in Chennai.

The cabinet took me 3 days to build (And it screwed my vacation plans....my wife is mad at me for that actually). The crossover only needed to be assembled which took me two nights after work.

Will let you know the cost later, however the drivers are from corrson.

P17wj-00-08 (

http://www.corrson.com/p17wj0008.html )
and
D25AG-35-06 (

http://www.corrson.com/d25ag3506.html )

The other stuff for the components, cabinets, spikes, grill cloth etc were also procured from corrson.

I used the first alternative of 3 and 15 ohms for the crossover (HF) and not the second alternative as given in the site mentioned above.

I couldn't post any picsof the cabinet while i was making it but some of the final pics are given below.

Some of the modifications that I made to the design given above in the url is
1. 3/4 inch mdf for all the sides.
2. a bracing between the tweeter and woofer.
3. 2 inch port instead of 1.5 inch
4. Internal dimensions of 16X8X9(HWD)

These are supposed to be bookshelf speaker but till i can afford to buy some solid stands, they will remain there on the floor.

As far as the performance goes, I have read a lot on this forum and others to comment on sound and performance. Suffice to say that they are much better than the Onkyo speakers(For HT) that i was using for stereo. Amongst the Floorstanders and Bookshelf in the 20-30K range that I have heard, these sound much superior (IMHO) in terms of Bass, vocals and the absolute vibrancy in the music. I don't want to start a war or anything like the one I have already read a lot in this forum but to my taste and hearing, I like them(Just to clarify). And yes, I am not promoting anybody's product just sharing my views in the ecstasy that follows after completing a project

And thanks to Sachi and Manek from this forum for helping me withsome of my previous posts regarding this project.

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#2 erstellt: 15. Aug 2005, 12:46

Great going Ronnie,

Man u must have worked your butt off to finish it so quickly.
awesome job...

what is the exterior finsh that you have used..

Also have you closed off the box or have you used screws for later testing and experimentation?

Cheers man,
Got new respect for you..have a couple of mugs

...u deserve it.
Sachi

[Beitrag von benkenobi am 15. Aug 2005, 12:47 bearbeitet]

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#3 erstellt: 15. Aug 2005, 12:58

Ronnie22 schrieb:

Hi all,

The cabinet took me 3 days to build (And it screwed my vacation plans....my wife is mad at me for that actually).

Ronnie22 schrieb:

Some of the modifications that I made to the design given above in the url is
1. 3/4 inch mdf for all the sides.
2. a bracing between the tweeter and woofer.
3. 2 inch port instead of 1.5 inch
4. Internal dimensions of 16X8X9(HWD)

Did you model these changes in a CAD before going ahead with them..and did you apply the necessary changes, especially since you changed the size of the port.
This is crucial and i trust you would have done the same.

Ronnie22 schrieb:

And thanks to Sachi and Manek from this forum for helping me withsome of my previous posts regarding this project.

Anytime dude..sorry abt the magnetic sheilding on the inductor wire..never have used an air core inductor. But i guess Cal set you right on that one.
Cheers,
Sachi

[Beitrag von benkenobi am 15. Aug 2005, 13:02 bearbeitet]

jsa_ind
Stammgast

#4 erstellt: 15. Aug 2005, 14:40

Dear Ronnie,

Very good job !

In case you need any help as to setting the room up with MLSSA let me know.

Sachi would have already set his room up with MLSSA by than.

Regards,

Junia.

Ronnie22
Ist häufiger hier

#5 erstellt: 15. Aug 2005, 21:10

Thanks Sachi!!

Yes, i remodelled it after i decided to send the port back and also had to rework since I was only getting 50 or 68mm ports. The exterior finish is a black laminate that cost me 475 for the sheet...which brings me to the main point. When i started to build the speaker i spoke to a lot of carpenters and workshops. In some places after i explained the design and also specified the materials (I wanted specific brands mind you like only Nuwud for Mdf etc), they offered toi make it for me at a fraction of the cost that it finally came upto eventually. I decided to purchase all the raw materials myself and supervise the building of the cabinet in my house itself. I paid the carpenteronly for his labour and for tool work like the router job for the drivers and flush mounting. Fortunately there are only two of us and my balcony happens to be pretty big :-).

Otherwise i wouldn't have spent on a lot of stuff that presently have no value till such time that I decide to do some more woodwork.

I also decided to use screws(2) for the back since i intend to experiment with the crossover.

Another thing that left me scratching my head was how much Racron to use inside the cabinet. Also the thing is damn fluffy so it requires a bitof artistry to mould the stuff. FInally decided to line only the side walls and leave the rest free. I also didn't stuff morethan 1 1/2 innch for the sides. I had read somewhere that too much filling can make the driver(woofer) sluggish since it adds to the mms. Also since i would be reworking the crossover i didn't want a mess inside the cabinet the next time i opened it up.

Also the magnetic paint on the inductor left me puzzled late into the night :-)

Thanks for the offer, Junia! That was very kind of you but i have not yet seen one for myself so actually using it will require a lot of outside help.

Will put up the cost sheet tomorrow (feeling very lazy right now :-)) but frankly the cost aspect was secondary since i wanted to learn. I hate reading too much and prefer working on something and learning the hard way. Also i get tuned onto different things every now and then and didn't want to let go of an opportunity to learn by implementing while my interest lasted

Ronnie22
Ist häufiger hier

#6 erstellt: 15. Aug 2005, 21:20

BTW I would love it if ppl came to my place and let me know how it sounds. whether it is missing something. I haven't heard too many speakers so cannot relate to a lot of very subjective interpretation(meant in a positive way) by ppl of music reproduction in different stereo speakers.

As for me, I am already seeing some shortcomings that will get me fired up for phase 2 of the speaker design

sivat
Stammgast

#7 erstellt: 16. Aug 2005, 06:18

Hi Ronnie,

This is fabulous result for a first time DIY attempt...and possibly a record time as well.

I had not seen this design before...thanks for the link..it looks solid.

Hearty Congrats; Enjoy both - the music and the thrill of further DIY experiments.

Cheers
Siva.

Krish
Stammgast

#8 erstellt: 16. Aug 2005, 07:03

Great stuff Ronnie.

Prithvi
Stammgast

#9 erstellt: 16. Aug 2005, 07:11

Great Job Ronnie,
Great to know that there are still people who enjoy doing their own stuff. Do get good solid stands for your speakers.
Rgds

Prithvi

square_wave
Inventar

#10 erstellt: 16. Aug 2005, 07:23

Great work Ronnie

Manek
Inventar

#11 erstellt: 16. Aug 2005, 09:34

nice work ron....

now listen to them and srat the tweaks

manek.

jsa_ind
Stammgast

#12 erstellt: 16. Aug 2005, 11:27

Dear Ronnie,

I shall get into MLSSA over the weekend.

Neutral also asked me to elaborate on the same.

Regards,

Junia.

Ronnie22
Ist häufiger hier

#13 erstellt: 16. Aug 2005, 20:57

Thanks everybody!!

As promised the price list for the speakers is given.

1. Woofer, Vifa P17WJ-00-08 6.5" Woofer, quantity of 2 = Rs.5500
2. Tweeter, Vifa D25AG-05-06 1" Dome Tweeter, quantity of 2 = Rs.3980
3. Inductor, 0.42 mH, 18 gauge, air core, quantity of 2 = Rs.360
4. Inductor, 0.68 mH, 18 gauge, air core, quantity of 2 = Rs.420
5. Capacitor, 4.7 uF, MFR, quantity of 2 = Rs.154
6. Resistor, 3 Ohm, 7 Watt, quantity of 2 = Rs.32
7. Resistor, 1 Ohm, 7 watt, quantity of 2 = Rs. 32
8. Resistor, 15 Ohm, 10 Watt, quantity of 2 = 32
9. Resistor of 8 ohms, 10 watt, quantity of 2 = 32
10. Grill fasterner, 8 pairs = Rs.40
11. Gold plated lugs, quantity of 16 = Rs.96
12. Silver coated copper wire, 4 metres = Rs.88
13. Biwire terminal, quantity of 2 = Rs.240
14. Self-adhesive gasket, 20 feet = Rs.300
15. Flared port, 50mm dia, Quantity of 2 = Rs.280
16. Spikes, quantity of 8 = Rs.336
17. Grill cloth, 6 sq ft = Rs.700
Sub Total = 12622
Tax = 1577
Shipping = Rs.250

sub-Total = Rs. 14450

18. Araldite = 385
19. MDF (3/4 " Nuwud, 6 by 4) = 925
20. Laminate (Black, 6 by 4) = 475
21. Screws and nails, tape = 80
22. Fevicol = 200
23. Thinner = 63
24. Racron(1/2 kg) = 70
25. Speaker wire = 420
26. Connectors = 20

27. Tool work = 830
28. Carpenter = 800

29. Soldering iron = 160
30. SOlder = 40
31. Flux = 5

Total = 18,923

I made a blunder (knowingly) of using some cheap connector for the input and output terminals on the crossover board. I intend changing them soon when i get my hands on some good gold-plated connectors.

IN the end it worked out to 4k more than the budget that i had planned for but the 4200 odd that i spend on the carpentry could have been lowered to 2000 (a workshop agreed to do it for me but i was unsure whether they would use sub-standard raw material and also coz i wanted to supervise the building personally hwich they were not willing to undergo). And no individual carpenter has specialised instruments like a router to make circular holes and flush mounts which again costme extra.

Another was the grill cloth which cost 700 but i had to allow my wife that liberty since she didn't want it looking dirty. However she helped a lot with the crossover(not this one but while experimenting with other drivers on winisd and speaker workshop). In fact we discovered another common passion during the building of these speakers

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#14 erstellt: 16. Aug 2005, 21:18

Ronnie22 schrieb:

(not this one but while experimenting with other drivers on winisd and speaker workshop). In fact we discovered another common passion during the building of these speakers :D

You truly have it all buddy!
Cheers,
Sachi

Arj
Inventar

#15 erstellt: 16. Aug 2005, 22:10

Ronnie ! i am shocked.. you do wonderful DIY on a speaker and then want to Buy stands !!!!:?

check these out..

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/stubby_e.html

they are good for starters. you should get the sand in chennai, just make sure it is really dry.

..And great job on the speakers..am sure they sound wonderful to your ears.

viren
Stammgast

#16 erstellt: 17. Aug 2005, 05:01

Ronnie,

Congratulations!

You've just started on a journey that's going to last a lifetime! Not just interest in audio, but the immense satisfaction of bringing it home yourself.

We all started this way. And, I tell you, the learning never ends. The journey is as fascinating as the rest stops. All in the interest of music!

Good luck to you.

Viren.

Neutral
Stammgast

#17 erstellt: 18. Aug 2005, 16:51

Hi Pranab,

Great work! I'm really sorry that I missed all the fun. I was chilling out at Mahabalipuram, Marina, and movies. It would have been nice if I could instead have been working with you.

I am no longer at Nungambakkam. I am staying at Hotel Liberty Park at Kodambakkam. So Besant Nagar is the other end of the world. I hope that you will drag me to your place on this weekend. I am longing to hear some good DIY.

I am lost in work these days. Finally got the time to access the forum.

Regards,

Neutral

Ronnie22
Ist häufiger hier

#18 erstellt: 18. Aug 2005, 20:18

Hi Neutral,

Just back from Delhi tonight. Will give you a call tomorrow and no place in Chennai is too far away

Neutral
Stammgast

#19 erstellt: 19. Aug 2005, 15:45

My office number is 5213 7731,32,33,34
Hotel Liberty Park at Kodambakkam: 2472 5950, 5232 1234
Sat is working but hope to leave early

Ronnie22
Ist häufiger hier

#20 erstellt: 19. Aug 2005, 18:16

Hey Neutral,

Called up your office and hotel but couldn't touch base! Call me on my cell when you get back to the hotel.

jsa_ind
Stammgast

#21 erstellt: 21. Aug 2005, 23:37

Dear Ronnie & Neutral,

MLSSA stands for Maximum Length Sequence System Analyzer is a professional software & hardware tool used to measure & determine to various accoustical parameters . Essentially it is an invaluable tool for speaker designers both for raw drivers as well as for drivers within cabinets. Since both of you are keenly interested in speaker building you may want to make copies of the books I have on Loudspeaker Design & Building and than graduate to operating the MLSSA I have. Sachi did the same (made copies of some of my books)and he felt that it was well worth the effort !

BTW with MLSSA you could do among other things:
Impulse responses
Waterfall cumulative decay spectrums
Polar responses
T/S. parameter determination
Group delays
Standing waves frequency detection

If you go to Viren's link at

http://www.nutshellhifi.com/library/speaker-design1.html &

http://www.mlssa.com/ you would get a little more insight into the MLSSA.

Detailed explanation is beyond the scope of this post, however if you do a goggle search on the above you are bound to get more details.

Regards,

Junia.

[Beitrag von jsa_ind am 22. Aug 2005, 01:55 bearbeitet]

Neutral
Stammgast

#22 erstellt: 23. Aug 2005, 12:42

Three cheers to DIY! Three cheers to Ronnie!
I visited his place on Sunday evening and listened to his bookshelfs (placed on the floor

) They sounded very nice driven by the Nad 320 Bee amplifier and a Denon tape deck. Unfortunately the Onida DVD player was a let down. Mediocre just like the Samsung player I had heard in Mumbai earlier. Just as in my case, a good source will make a big difference to him too.

His speakers are excellent. If he were willing, I would have asked him to make some for me

The sound was natural and balanced. No extra bass (even though they were on the floor) and no sharp treble. I enjoyed George Michael, Norah and other tapes that he had lying around. Well in short DIY works if you put in sufficient efforts. At less than 20K cost price, these bookshelfs will outclass commercial models that are several thousands costlier.