Buying A DAC For HDD Playback

Wavelength audio. The usb dac website is below:

http://www.usbdacs.com/Products/Products.html

Another very popular dac:

http://www.ayre.com/qb9.htm

There is list here:

http://www.computera...gested-Hardware-List

Dear Amp_Nut,

You may also consider the 'new' dCS Debussy Dac. Now with native 24/192 support.

Take a look - http://dcsltd.co.uk/product/debussy-dac

Regards
SNV

AN..i guess some of the Dacs that do the HDD really well are dCS, Esoteric, AMR77 etc. rather than just buying a separate dac why dont you go for a CD player with a USB/Firewire in ?

When we are on this topic, here is something interesting:
http://lampizator.eu...tor%20transport.html

What do you guys think about this approach ?

abhi.pani schrieb:

When we are on this topic, here is something interesting: http://lampizator.eu...tor%20transport.html What do you guys think about this approach ?

this is actually the kind o product I am looking for (if it claims to be as good as they say it is) but is at 3X the cost I am willing to pay

Arj schrieb:

abhi.pani schrieb: When we are on this topic, here is something interesting: http://lampizator.eu...tor%20transport.html What do you guys think about this approach ? this is actually the kind o product I am looking for (if it claims to be as good as they say it is) but is at 3X the cost I am willing to pay :(

Do you know of other similar products ?

Abhi, others that i know of are the
-Transporter: built in dac but not yet "there"
-Sooloos : too $$
-Sonos: soundquality not good enough
-Bolder Modded Squeezebox + PSU: this seems like the best option for the time being..although not convinced on how good it is.

i want something which will take out the USB/Firewire out of the equation and use something like TCPIP so the computer can be kept really away from the music system.

abhi.pani schrieb:

When we are on this topic, here is something interesting: http://lampizator.eu...tor%20transport.html What do you guys think about this approach ?

Abhi, aren't you missing the point?
Amp_Nut's asked for a high quality DAC for his HDD system & you are suggesting a HDD-to-SPDIF converter box THAT NEEDS A DAC ANYWAY TO PLAYBACK MUSIC!!

What you are suggesting is a separate topic - what is the best method to convert music files from one's HDD?? Does one convert to SPDIF? or to BNC? or to optical? or to XLR? or I2S? or something totally different?
This is another (potentially heated) discussion SEPARATE from Amp_Nut's "which high quality DAC do I buy?".


The Lampizator box looks half-way decent but the inards looks like a 5-yr old did the soldering job. Bleeder resistors hanging off the power cap, filtering caps on the xformer leads, fly wires directly on the PCB tapping of CLK, DATA signals. Man, what a mess!! looks like a high school lab/DIY project.....

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Though its not turned into an obsession (yet ), I am seriously considering purchase of a good DAC for Music Playout from a Hard Disk Drive (HDD). Would appreciate pointers on what I should consider, for the DAC and the rest of the system. Thanks !

Ha, ha, ha!! this means that it HAS become an obsession & you are in denial so far.......
welcome to the HDD playback club!

First, have you decided on the architecture of the DAC - oversampling DAC or non-oversampling DAC?
Second, do need a USB DAC or a Firewire DAC? Or, are you going wireless & feeding the signal into a Lampizator-like piece of equipment?
(looks like the Lampizator streamer is capable upto 24/96 only. does this make it a deal-breaker for you since you might want 24/192??)

There are sooooooo many choices today - if you ask 5 audiophiles you'll get 6 or more suggestions!
Do any of the HDD DACs in BOM with other audio members float your boat?
So, a few questions to answer for yourself (& maybe share) before you can point yourself towards the correct type of DAC. IMHO. FWIW.

bombaywalla schrieb:

abhi.pani schrieb: When we are on this topic, here is something interesting: http://lampizator.eu...tor%20transport.html What do you guys think about this approach ? Abhi, aren't you missing the point? Amp_Nut's asked for a high quality DAC for his HDD system & you are suggesting a HDD-to-SPDIF converter box THAT NEEDS A DAC ANYWAY TO PLAYBACK MUSIC!! What you are suggesting is a separate topic - what is the best method to convert music files from one's HDD?? Does one convert to SPDIF? or to BNC? or to optical? or to XLR? or I2S? or something totally different? This is another (potentially heated) discussion SEPARATE from Amp_Nut's "which high quality DAC do I buy?". The Lampizator box looks half-way decent but the inards looks like a 5-yr old did the soldering job. Bleeder resistors hanging off the power cap, filtering caps on the xformer leads, fly wires directly on the PCB tapping of CLK, DATA signals. Man, what a mess!! looks like a high school lab/DIY project.....

I was not really suggesting anything to AN. Since we were on the topic of HDD based playback and I came across this interesting project (high school ?) I just thought of adding it to the discussion. This may indeed give AN some food for thought about how he wants his HDD to be played back, who knows. Regarding the DAC, I dont have anything exclusive to suggest apart from the usual suspects. I still believe that the best DACs made today support only the traditional inputs (SPDIF, AES/EBU, BNC) in some cases with an USB thrown in as a value add. Most dedicated USB dacs are average stuff except for a couple (like the Bow Tech). So AN's case is simple IMO. He just needs a great DAC. AN, please feel free to correct me.

abhi.pani schrieb:

bombaywalla schrieb: abhi.pani schrieb: When we are on this topic, here is something interesting: http://lampizator.eu...tor%20transport.html What do you guys think about this approach ? Abhi, aren't you missing the point? Amp_Nut's asked for a high quality DAC for his HDD system & you are suggesting a HDD-to-SPDIF converter box THAT NEEDS A DAC ANYWAY TO PLAYBACK MUSIC!! What you are suggesting is a separate topic - what is the best method to convert music files from one's HDD?? Does one convert to SPDIF? or to BNC? or to optical? or to XLR? or I2S? or something totally different? This is another (potentially heated) discussion SEPARATE from Amp_Nut's "which high quality DAC do I buy?". The Lampizator box looks half-way decent but the inards looks like a 5-yr old did the soldering job. Bleeder resistors hanging off the power cap, filtering caps on the xformer leads, fly wires directly on the PCB tapping of CLK, DATA signals. Man, what a mess!! looks like a high school lab/DIY project..... I was not really suggesting anything to AN. Since we were on the topic of HDD based playback and I came across this interesting project (high school ?) I just thought of adding it to the discussion. This may indeed give AN some food for thought about how he wants his HDD to be played back, who knows. Regarding the DAC, I dont have anything exclusive to suggest apart from the usual suspects. I still believe that the best DACs made today support only the traditional inputs (SPDIF, AES/EBU, BNC) in some cases with an USB thrown in as a value add. Most dedicated USB dacs are average stuff except for a couple (like the Bow Tech). So AN's case is simple IMO. He just needs a great DAC. AN, please feel free to correct me.

Abhi, thanks for the clarification.

Abhi,

From what I understand, all dedicated usb dacs have a usb to spdif or a usb to i2s converter(are there many more converters ?) inside the box. Apart from this, there is no other difference! How did you come to the conclusion that all dedicated usb dacs are just average?


I am new to dacs, hence the question.

This means that if you buy a dedicated usb to spdif or i2s converter (there are many extremely good one available now), you get a two-piece “usb dac” in your hands ! Is there anything more to all this ?

. I still believe that the best DACs made today support only the traditional inputs (SPDIF, AES/EBU, BNC) in some cases with an USB thrown in as a value add. Most dedicated USB dacs are average stuff except for a couple (like the Bow Tech).

square_wave schrieb:

Abhi, From what I understand, all dedicated usb dacs have a usb to spdif or a usb to i2s converter(are there many more converters ?) inside the box. Apart from this, there is no other difference! How did you come to the conclusion that all dedicated usb dacs are just average?

yeah, Abhi, please share your motivation for making this statement. thanks.

square_wave schrieb:

Abhi, From what I understand, all dedicated usb dacs have a usb to spdif or a usb to i2s converter(are there many more converters ?) inside the box. Apart from this, there is no other difference! How did you come to the conclusion that all dedicated usb dacs are just average? I am new to dacs, hence the question. This means that if you buy a dedicated usb to spdif or i2s converter (there are many extremely good one available now), you get a two-piece “usb dac” in your hands ! Is there anything more to all this ?

i think most good USB/Firewire dacs Do not do an SPDIF conversion..they do a DA without SPDIF ( i think Mostly I2S..dont know of any other format)
SPDIF is actually , from what i have learnt, not the best format it is the only proper standard for transmission over distance.

the problem with USB dacs is you need to be very sure of what you are getting into..there are too many options and very little credible information. additionally most folks just want to milk the nascent market

I still plan to write my "software" into CDs and play them via transport

Ampnut,

Was reading a review on the new Rega dac. Somewhere the reviewer says it beats a DCS dac.

Now, since dcs is distributed out of Pune and Rega too has its india distribution based out of Pune, I guess you should give both a listen :-)

Manek

Hi Everyone,

Thanks a TON for the huge response and all your replies. There is a WEALTH of info & views that you have shared.

Sorry for being mute for the past several days.

I am penning down some of my thoughts & replies to your queries / suggestions:

Square wave said:

http://www.usbdacs.com/Products/Products.html

Yes, he is the father of the async USB config, hence I would approach these products with respect. However, I have not had the opp to listen to any of his (rather expensive) products. To me they also LOOK primitive, with no thought given to having these products gel with the rest of the stereo system. VERY, VERY Ugly products - IMHO Also, these DACs sound quite different, model to model, with not much of a 'family sound' accourding to the reviews I have read. Hence I think its essential to listen to the product before buying it.... ( as always ! )

SQ Wave said:

http://www.ayre.com/qb9.htm

The USB software is by Rankin of wavelngth Audio.

I did not like this DAC. Too bland for my taste. Heard it in Spore... though, not in my own system.

SNV Said :

http://dcsltd.co.uk/product/debussy-dac

Yes SIR ! I would LOVE it, but US $ 10K is more than I am willing to spend...

I am Certainly open if there is a demo unit at a good price

Its probably close to my ideal DAC ( see later) though would need a brief home demo, before a final commitment.

Arj Said:

rather than just buying a separate dac why dont you go for a CD player with a USB/Firewire in ?

100% Agree ! Now if my CD Player had an external Digital input, ....

Sadly, hardly any products of this nature available.

Frankly, my BEST choice would be something with a DVD & SACD player, so that true Hi res material can be used as source.

The Playback Design MPS-5 CD / SACD / DAC is an almost ideal choice, but lacks a built in Volume control... and the price !

Arj said:

-Transporter: built in DAC but not yet "there" -Sooloos : too $$

I did not like the Transporter's sound. Too analytical, no soul.

Sooloos, a LOVELY interface, but not upgradeable. Have to buy ( and later dump ) the entire package.


Arj said:

i think most good USB/Firewire dacs Do not do an SPDIF conversion..they do a DA without SPDIF ( i think Mostly I2S..dont know of any other format) SPDIF is actually , from what i have learnt, not the best format it is the only proper standard for transmission over distance.

I agree, 100%.

Manek said:

Was reading a review on the new Rega dac. Somewhere the reviewer says it beats a DCS dac. Now, since dcs is distributed out of Pune and Rega too has its india distribution based out of Pune, I guess you should give both a listen :-)

Yes, Manek, I too have heard Good things said about the Rega DAC, and its VERY well priced.

Manek, I did not know that its sold in Pune. can you give me the contact details ?

Bombaywalla Said:

Ha, ha, ha!! this means that it HAS become an obsession & you are in denial so far....... welcome to the HDD playback club! First, have you decided on the architecture of the DAC - oversampling DAC or non-oversampling DAC? Second, do need a USB DAC or a Firewire DAC? Or, are you going wireless & feeding the signal into a Lampizator-like piece of equipment? (looks like the Lampizator streamer is capable upto 24/96 only. does this make it a deal-breaker for you since you might want 24/192??) There are sooooooo many choices today - if you ask 5 audiophiles you'll get 6 or more suggestions! Do any of the HDD DACs in BOM with other audio members float your boat? So, a few questions to answer for yourself (& maybe share) before you can point yourself towards the correct type of DAC. IMHO. FWIW.

Words or WISDOM ! well said

My thoughts on an ideal DAC for me :

1. Should Sound GOOD ! LOL I guess that means it should better my current CD player, on all counts, not just in one or 2 areas...

2. Should be capable of playing back Hi Res ( atleast 24/192) music files.

3. Upsampling / oversampling - Irrelevant. Point 1 above is the yardstick.

4. Should preferably have a CD + SACD / DVD-A drive.

5. Must have SPDIF & Preferably Async USB.

(the Weiss Firewire DAC did not impress me in Sound Quality, but that could well be a function of the sound of the DAC rather than the interface).

6. I would LOVE the DAC to have an Ethernet connection, for directly connecting to a NAS.

7. A built in volume control would help be sell my Pre amp and allocate the funds to a better DAC. ( I currently use a US $ 5K AR LS-26 pre ). Even if I got 50% of list, it would boost my DAC budget substantially).

8. Should have balance Analog out. The rest of my system runs balanced, and i love my Argento Balanced Interconnects.

9. MUST have a remote control, ATLEAST for volume control. Pref for Track selection too... though would be happy to use an external interface such as an iPad for Music search and selection and Volume Control.

10. US $ 5K budget.... maybe stretchable to US $ 6K.

A forum member has bought a Wyred4Sound DAC and I am looking forward to hearing it soon....

Guys, yr thoughts / contradictions / debate welcome.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Arj Said: rather than just buying a separate dac why dont you go for a CD player with a USB/Firewire in ? 100% Agree ! Now if my CD Player had an external Digital input, .... Sadly, hardly any products of this nature available. Frankly, my BEST choice would be something with a DVD & SACD player, so that true Hi res material can be used as source.

I believe the following have an USB input in an already good player and are below the 10K price
-AMR CD77
-Esoteric A series
-Audio aero

if you are serious about HDD audio an SPDIF converter-Dac combination will only be a compromise somewhere.

Arj,

I find the Esoteric Sound too lean and analytical. The Audio Aero is at the other end... too lush and a beautiful haze ..

The AMR I have not heard. Any pointer as to where the AMR Sound stands ? ( Lush vs analytical ).

if you are serious about HDD audio an SPDIF converter-Dac combination will only be a compromise somewhere.

I agree... but no choice.... Almost no one gives a I2S input for the DAC section (Ayon, but a BITCH of a problem to get it to work. A forum member went round the bend, only to finally realise that Ayon itself had got it wrong ! )

Also no HDD playback system will provide an I2S output, except if its by the DAC maker themselves, so then what you are really buying is a 2 box CD player, with an external I2S loop ( often with Propriety connectors)

That is why I am also keen on an Ethernet interface, such as a Linn.... Any thoughts on this ? (Ethernet)

AN.. i too thought it was analytical untill i heard it at someones house using SET/Single driver.. it sounded anything but analytical !

in fact bad recordings were also really good to listen to.

Ah ! The Joys of SET Sound

I agree it would perfectly complement a lean source.

In fact I heard the most AWESOME SET mono blocks, driven by a Puccinni + U Clock.

The sound was BEAUTIFULLY balanced and musical... far better than what the Puccinni sounded at my place.

[quote="Arj"]AN.. i too thought it was analytical untill i heard it at someones house using SET/Single driver.. it sounded anything but analytical !

in fact bad recordings were also really good to listen to.[/quote]


[quote="Amp_Nut"]Ah ! The Joys of SET Sound

I agree it would perfectly complement a lean source.

In fact I heard the most AWESOME SET mono blocks, driven by a Puccinni + U Clock.

The sound was BEAUTIFULLY balanced and musical... far better than what the Puccinni sounded at my place. [/quote]

looks like 2 wrongs making 1 right?

@Ampnut,

I would love to hear your opinions on the wyred4sound dac. They are made by cullen circuits who used to be the OEM for ps audio. Their pricing is a bit low due to their OEM stature and business model. The DAC and Preamp received a great review on six moons. Some awards too if I remember right. I love to hear your opinion.

Arj schrieb:

Amp_Nut schrieb: Arj Said: rather than just buying a separate dac why dont you go for a CD player with a USB/Firewire in ? 100% Agree ! Now if my CD Player had an external Digital input, .... Sadly, hardly any products of this nature available. Frankly, my BEST choice would be something with a DVD & SACD player, so that true Hi res material can be used as source. I believe the following have an USB input in an already good player and are below the 10K price -AMR CD77 -Esoteric A series -Audio aero if you are serious about HDD audio an SPDIF converter-Dac combination will only be a compromise somewhere.

hey guys, we might be forgetting about the M2Tech HiFace Evo product that our own MSB1 is using. this HiFace Evo provides an I2S output to the DAC on its rear panel. Do take a look @ their website:
http://www.m2tech.biz/evo.html
you can click on the manual (in PDF) which clearly shows the front & rear panels. This is a 24/192 product.
they offer the "Young" which is a 32/384 product!
Amp_Nut should be able to get plenty of info from MSB1 re. the HiFace Evo (atleast so I think!)
this product apparently nulls the compromise when converting to SPDIF....

To confuse you even further, here is another not so expensive DAC from M2Tech.

M2Tech young:
http://www.m2tech.biz/young.html

Add this power supply to it.

http://teddypardo.co...eddyYoungDAC-PS.html

These guys make power supplies for Naim.

Amp_Nut said:

My thoughts on an ideal DAC for me : 1. Should Sound GOOD ! LOL I guess that means it should better my current CD player, on all counts, not just in one or 2 areas... 2. Should be capable of playing back Hi Res ( atleast 24/192) music files. 3. Upsampling / oversampling - Irrelevant. Point 1 above is the yardstick. 4. Should preferably have a CD + SACD / DVD-A drive. 5. Must have SPDIF & Preferably Async USB. (the Weiss Firewire DAC did not impress me in Sound Quality, but that could well be a function of the sound of the DAC rather than the interface). 6. I would LOVE the DAC to have an Ethernet connection, for directly connecting to a NAS. 7. A built in volume control would help be sell my Pre amp and allocate the funds to a better DAC. ( I currently use a US $ 5K AR LS-26 pre ). Even if I got 50% of list, it would boost my DAC budget substantially). 8. Should have balance Analog out. The rest of my system runs balanced, and i love my Argento Balanced Interconnects. 9. MUST have a remote control, ATLEAST for volume control. Pref for Track selection too... though would be happy to use an external interface such as an iPad for Music search and selection and Volume Control. 10. US $ 5K budget.... maybe stretchable to US $ 6K.

Amp_Nut, since over/upsampling is irrelevant Then I'm thinking that you are also open to non-oversampling DACs (altho' I do not know if any 24/192 non-os DACs exist out there? Maybe from Audio Note UK?).

2ndly, did you look @ the offerings from Chord electronics (the folks who made the DAC64)?

3rdly, here is a DAC with a digital volume control that is very popular in this hemisphere & it has XLR outputs:
http://www.lavryengineering.com/productspage_pro_da11.html
The DA10 (older model) was very well received & it looks like the DA11 is following suit.
FWIW.

@Bombaywalla,

From what I hear from various forums, the M2tech Young with the power supply upgrade is walking all over the likes of Lavry and Benchmark. Just an observation.

These M2Tech guys are onto something good. Just like how the HiFace device changed everything.

Ampnut

The Rega distributor details are on the Rega website.

Don't have access to pc for a few days and the site doesn't open on handphone properly.

Btw, do electrocompaniet make a Dac ?

Regards

Manek

bombaywalla schrieb:

hey guys, we might be forgetting about the M2Tech HiFace Evo product that our own MSB1 is using. this HiFace Evo provides an I2S output to the DAC on its rear panel. Do take a look @ their website: http://www.m2tech.biz/evo.html you can click on the manual (in PDF) which clearly shows the front & rear panels. This is a 24/192 product. they offer the "Young" which is a 32/384 product! Amp_Nut should be able to get plenty of info from MSB1 re. the HiFace Evo (atleast so I think!) this product apparently nulls the compromise when converting to SPDIF....

i remember reading that msb has moved to the playback design system cdp ???

bombaywalla schrieb:

looks like 2 wrongs making 1 right? :Y

really not sure if the esoteric is really that lean. Abhi.pani now has an audio aero reference CDP on his ATC+Symphonic line and i do not find it lush at all especially since the amp combo can only be called revealing.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

The AMR I have not heard. Any pointer as to where the AMR Sound stands ? ( Lush vs analytical ).

Hi AN, my only knowledge of AMR is from reviews so my opinion needs to be taken with the proverbial salt it is not a detailed cdp and apparently leans more towards "Musicality". that is a word i treat with suspicion when coming in reviews so will put in into the audio aero/CEC "organic" sound rather than the esoteric/wadia etc camp of detailed presentation.

BTW the cdp weighs 20+ KGS !!

Arj wrote:

really not sure if the esoteric is really that lean. Abhi.pani now has an audio aero reference CDP on his ATC+Symphonic line and i do not find it lush at all especially since the amp combo can only be called revealing.

I once heard an AudioAero Prestige CDP at a fellow audiophile's house driving a Cary SLP-98 preamp in Ferrari red ( :prost) and Cary/AES mono blocks. The sonics were very pleasing & organic (like you wrote). A nice hiatus for me but I would not want that sound all the time ('cuz Blues music just did not have that bite & roughness that I wanted). Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Does Abhi have the Capitole Classic or Capitole Reference or something else (like the La Source)? Thanks.

I think it is the reference of AA version.. I have not really missed any detail in that. the usual small cues of a clap here or the slight sound of the double bass are all there.
compared to it the Esoteric (as a transport) seems to give due weightage to each instrument while the audio aero seems to give music as a whole weightage.

bot presentations being engaging.

the DAC section of the audio aero was perhaps the killer section at least when i heard it, not just detailed but highly involving

Manek said:

Btw, do electrocompaniet make a Dac ?

Yes they Do ! and I still Love the sound of my Electrocompaniet CD-1 UP**. Would be GREAT to get that sound from a DAC.

Unfortunately, the EC DAC is not ( I suspect) on par with theat of my CD player... which is their Top of the line

The DAC is positioned 1 rung lower, and that level, slips significantly below what I want.

** My EC CD Player, has a slightly aggressive mid range, which nicely compensates the overtly polite sound of my Revel Salon Speakers ( Revel = Mark Levinson = 'Dark' Levinson )

Yes Bombaywalla, once again, 2 wrongs approaching a 'Right.' But then, I do not know of ANY Hi Fi Component that is 100% right ..

For the life of me I can't remember the article or the brand which spoke of a top notch multi source preamp with a built in top notch dac with usb and all.

Wouldn't that be ideal for you.

Manek

Arj schrieb:

I think it is the reference of AA version.. the DAC section of the audio aero was perhaps the killer section at least when i heard it, not just detailed but highly involving

Yes Arj, it is the Capitole Reference. And yes I too agree that it has an outstanding DAC.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

The Audio Aero is at the other end... too lush and a beautiful haze ..

Hi AN, Audio Aero did have the reputation of being warm, mellow and may be fuzzy. But that was about 5-6 years back. They have come a long way in rectifying those things in their current players. The current players are very dynamic and transparent. However they still sound very fluidity and musical.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

My thoughts on an ideal DAC for me : 1. Should Sound GOOD ! LOL I guess that means it should better my current CD player, on all counts, not just in one or 2 areas... 2. Should be capable of playing back Hi Res ( atleast 24/192) music files. 3. Upsampling / oversampling - Irrelevant. Point 1 above is the yardstick. 4. Should preferably have a CD + SACD / DVD-A drive. 5. Must have SPDIF & Preferably Async USB. (the Weiss Firewire DAC did not impress me in Sound Quality, but that could well be a function of the sound of the DAC rather than the interface). 6. I would LOVE the DAC to have an Ethernet connection, for directly connecting to a NAS. 7. A built in volume control would help be sell my Pre amp and allocate the funds to a better DAC. ( I currently use a US $ 5K AR LS-26 pre ). Even if I got 50% of list, it would boost my DAC budget substantially). 8. Should have balance Analog out. The rest of my system runs balanced, and i love my Argento Balanced Interconnects. 9. MUST have a remote control, ATLEAST for volume control. Pref for Track selection too... though would be happy to use an external interface such as an iPad for Music search and selection and Volume Control. 10. US $ 5K budget.... maybe stretchable to US $ 6K. Guys, yr thoughts / contradictions / debate welcome.

Dear Amp_Nut,

1. The dCS obviously is one of the best products out there.

2. The new Debussy supports high res files (24/192) on usb.

3. It has spdif and async usb

4. Its equipped with a built in digital volume control. No need for a preamp, You may connect directly to your power amps. Choose between 2v or 6v.

5. Balance and unbalanced outs.

6. Comes with a remote control.

7. Price is USD 11,000/- and now with native 24/192 support.

8. Oversamples to DSD resolution.

Call me when convenient.

Regards
SNV

Curious

Does anyone sell lavry in india ?

Manek

Thanks, SNV.

Will call. & Yes, I agree with you, the Debussy offers practically everything I want ( except an Ethernet connection )

Manek said :

For the life of me I can't remember the article or the brand which spoke of a top notch multi source preamp with a built in top notch dac with usb and all.

Many contenders now...

Naim, Theta (without USB), dCS Debussy, and Jeff Rowland's AERIS DAC which I'm told will be on Demo shortly in Mumbai.

Audio research DAC8 also has USB along with other digital

Yes, Arj. But the Audio Research DAC does not include a Volume Control, hence requiring an additional Pre Amp in the system. The Pre Costs as much as the DAC ...

Incidentally, I may be offered a AR DAC-8 at an attractive price, later this month ( if the owner decides to upgrade )

Arj Said:

I have not really missed any detail in that. the usual small cues of a clap here or the slight sound of the double bass are all there.

On a slightly lateral note... WE often feel that one piece of HiFi reveals some nuance that we had not heard before.

Actually, I have observed that when I go back to the older equipment that had not 'reveaqled' a particular nuance, it actually IS there ! The new equipment simply made if more noticibale...

Other's thoughts / experiences on this please ?

AN, from what I have been hearing about integerated preamps as well as my own experience , it is better to have a separate preamp !

i really think a preamp is better suited in a power amp than in the source !

am adding the IMHO etc etc as the disclaimer but this is something i feel much more strongly about this than Int amp vs power amp or passive Vs Active Pre )

so please do examine this thoroughly before you decide. the only Source+ preamps i have heard about that work really well are by dCS and Wadia (Wadia is a bit tentative but some benefit of doubt is there )

regarding your point on nuances, you are right as even frequent switching for a A/B can be confusing as the presentation is pretty different...but i have always backed thayt first "intuitive" feeling on gets when on hears something new, when the mind is open and ideally without pre-concieved notionsa and the more I get scientific the more chances of error

Of course some aspects like Slam/treble extension are the more obvious changes which can be looked in isoation..but this "Nuance" is the tricky part

Arj said:

AN, from what I have been hearing about integerated preamps as well as my own experience , it is better to have a separate preamp ! i really think a preamp is better suited in a power amp than in the source ! am adding the IMHO etc etc as the disclaimer but this is something i feel much more strongly about this than Int amp vs power amp or passive Vs Active Pre ) so please do examine this thoroughly before you decide. the only Source+ preamps i have heard about that work really well are by dCS and Wadia (Wadia is a bit tentative but some benefit of doubt is there )

In MOST of the cases I Totally agree with you. The Pre Amp DOES bring something to the table.

However, there are some (rare ? ) pieces of equipment ( eg dCS) that have a built in Volume control & provide their signature sound best without a Pre amp. If one likes that signature sound, then its (saving the cost of a Pre amp) a great deal.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Yes, Arj. But the Audio Research DAC does not include a Volume Control, hence requiring an additional Pre Amp in the system. The Pre Costs as much as the DAC ...

What an irony Amp_Nut, I am in an exactly opposite situation. I desperately want to avoid the volume control that my CDP has. I anyway need an active preamp since my power amp clearly favors active over passive preamp. Even the manufacturer of my power amp strongly suggested against a passive preamp with his design. So I have this trouble of having dual attenuators . Keeping my CDP at full volume is a solution but that way the gain is too high hence I can use only the first two notches on my active preamp. Not an easy situation to be in.

abhi.pani schrieb:

Amp_Nut schrieb: Yes, Arj. But the Audio Research DAC does not include a Volume Control, hence requiring an additional Pre Amp in the system. The Pre Costs as much as the DAC ... What an irony Amp_Nut, I am in an exactly opposite situation. I desperately want to avoid the volume control that my CDP has. I anyway need an active preamp since my power amp clearly favors active over passive preamp. Even the manufacturer of my power amp strongly suggested against a passive preamp with his design. So I have this trouble of having dual attenuators . Keeping my CDP at full volume is a solution but that way the gain is too high hence I can use only the first two notches on my active preamp. Not an easy situation to be in.

I see! yes, the AA Capitole Ref does have a built-in volume control. So, now you have 2 voltage control knobs & (no surprise!) too much gain.
So, AP, did you not audition the Capitole Ref in your system before buying? I'm assuming that you bought it from someone in India & not off A'gon (might be a bad assumption on my part? if you bought it off A'gon I can see why you did not already know that the 2 volume controls would be an issue for you).
if you have already struggled a lot w/ this situation, why not sell the Capitole Ref & get the Capitole Classic which does not have the internal vol control?

AP, since you like te sound and versality of the CDP with Digital i/p & o/ps, why not consider another Pre amp ?

bombaywalla schrieb:

abhi.pani schrieb: Amp_Nut schrieb: Yes, Arj. But the Audio Research DAC does not include a Volume Control, hence requiring an additional Pre Amp in the system. The Pre Costs as much as the DAC ... What an irony Amp_Nut, I am in an exactly opposite situation. I desperately want to avoid the volume control that my CDP has. I anyway need an active preamp since my power amp clearly favors active over passive preamp. Even the manufacturer of my power amp strongly suggested against a passive preamp with his design. So I have this trouble of having dual attenuators . Keeping my CDP at full volume is a solution but that way the gain is too high hence I can use only the first two notches on my active preamp. Not an easy situation to be in. I see! yes, the AA Capitole Ref does have a built-in volume control. So, now you have 2 voltage control knobs & (no surprise!) too much gain. So, AP, did you not audition the Capitole Ref in your system before buying? I'm assuming that you bought it from someone in India & not off A'gon (might be a bad assumption on my part? if you bought it off A'gon I can see why you did not already know that the 2 volume controls would be an issue for you). if you have already struggled a lot w/ this situation, why not sell the Capitole Ref & get the Capitole Classic which does not have the internal vol control?

AP, since you like te sound and versality of the CDP with Digital i/p & o/ps, why not consider another Pre amp ?

I have been juggling between these two options myself. Going to a AA Capitole Classic looks easy because it will save me from investing more. However it is not easy to find a Classic within India. Buying from abroad is a lot of hassle including the risk of shipping damage (I have already met with such incidents twice in the last two years). OTOH, buying another preamp is an option but it will mean further investment and also finding another good tube preamp (after living with a tube preamp it is difficult to go SS). I dont know which way I will go. I will start somewhere soon though.

Has anyone heard a Lavry Gold DA924 DAC ? Supposedly it is special, any comments are welcome.

abhi.pani schrieb:

Has anyone heard a Lavry Gold DA924 DAC ? Supposedly it is special, any comments are welcome.

you'll find plenty of commentary on Rommie The Cat's website. Use your favourite search engine to find out some more info. Rommie owns one himself for a long time now.....

There is one for sale on audiogon Abhi for around 6000 $.

This is supposed to be one of the best non oversampling dacs in the market currently.

@bombaywalla,

Thanks for the intro to rommie the cat's site. Wealth of info there.