Help me . .find replacement - upgrade for Wadi 581i

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reignofchaos
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#101 erstellt: 23. Jun 2010, 16:34

bombaywalla schrieb:

reignofchaos schrieb:

TAS1020B is limited to 24/96. It can't do 24/192 which the M2Tech Hiface which msb referred to earlier can do asynchronously.

yes, correct, the TAS1020B is maxxed out at 24/96.
The M2Tech product looks nice. They cheaped out by providing it w/ a RCA output jack in its default configuration. After all the work they did to reduce the jitter in their hardware, write custom drivers for a plethora of MS OSs & now even for Mac, they come to the output terminal & provide a piss-poor RCA! The output impedance will be a far cry from 75 Ohms & you'll get a lot of reflected power & voila, there goes your low jitter - flushed down the toilet!

You paid $150 for jack-s$$$! It should have been only BNC output, IMO.

For 15 euro more, they offer BNC. You can buy the version you want.

msb1
Stammgast

#102 erstellt: 23. Jun 2010, 16:58

reignofchaos schrieb:

For 15 euro more, they offer BNC. You can buy the version you want.

Yes, but your DAC should have a BNC connector too else its pointless.

reignofchaos
Stammgast

#103 erstellt: 24. Jun 2010, 09:50

msb1 schrieb:

reignofchaos schrieb:

For 15 euro more, they offer BNC. You can buy the version you want.

Yes, but your DAC should have a BNC connector too else its pointless.

Yup else you can't even connect it!

Amp_Nut
Inventar

#104 erstellt: 26. Jun 2010, 06:53

Yesterday evening, got myself the June 2010 issue of STEREOPHILE. ( Actually my subscription copy has not yet arrived, so I bought one from the roadside ).

It got reviews of 2 interesting DACs, avaiable a budget prices:

YBA Design WD202 D/A headphone amplifier

CEntrance DACport USB headphone amplifier

While reading the DACport review, I can across text from the STEREOPHILE Editor that says that

EMPIRICAL Audio USB solution is NOT Async USB ???

I quote :

The dCS combo goes back to the distributor a week or so after this issue goes to press, but I have very much appreciated its performance. The U-Clock operates the USB interface in what is called "asynchronous mode," which allows the DAC to act as the master system clock and control the flow of data from the PC, which very much reduces any potential for the introduction of timing uncertainty in the conversion of the data to analog. These timing variations in the datastream, called jitter, result in increased analog noise and reduced resolution in the reconstructed audio signal. (Once jitter has been introduced, you can never completely remove it, only filter it.) However, other than a very few products currently available from Ayre Acoustics, Wavelength, and dCS, all other USB audio devices function in "isochronous adaptive" mode, in which the host computer controls the data flow.

He then goes on to say :

There are strategies for reducing jitter with a USB connection operated in adaptive mode, and leading the development of such technology is CEntrance, a Chicago-based company that has licensed its USB technology to Benchmark, Lavry, Bel Canto, Empirical Audio, and PS Audio, among others.

I always thought that Empirical deployed async USB.

The DACport uses CEntrance's AdaptiWave USB technology, running on a Texas Instruments TAS1020B chip; although the interface operates in USB's adaptive mode, CEntrance uses their proprietary, two-stage JitterGuard clock-management system, based on a "military-spec. clock oscillator with 10ppm [parts per million] precision."

MSB1 and any one else, can you please clarify ??

[Beitrag von Amp_Nut am 26. Jun 2010, 06:55 bearbeitet]

msb1
Stammgast

#105 erstellt: 26. Jun 2010, 07:29

Amp_Nut schrieb:

MSB1 and any one else, can you please clarify ?? :?

Hi,

Only the Empirical Pace Car Reclocker is Async. The Off Ramp USB Converter and the Overdrive DAC are not.

From the Empirical Site:
"Even though our USB interfaces are Adaptive and not Asynchronous, they still outperform all other USB interfaces on the market, Asynch or Adaptive."

On the Pace Car Reclocker Page:
"The Pace-Car USB has an asynchronous USB input that supports sample-rates up to 24/192 max. Asynchronous USB means that the clock in the computer is a slave to the clock inside the Pace-Car. Slaving the computer enables the lowest jitter result."

The M2Tech hiface is stated as being async.

Async/Adaptive, etc. etc. are all technical jargon. Bottom line is that they dont mean that the sound is going to be better or worse. It's like when CD players first emerged, the thinking was that this was it and nothing could further improve on the sound of a CD player.

Presently, async is however needed for hi-rez playback I think.

As I said earlier, it's too early to know which direction digital will go. Async/Adaptive and even USB (for audio) may be short lived. The only way to move forward is to listen and go with what you like!!

Amp_Nut
Inventar

#106 erstellt: 26. Jun 2010, 07:35

bombaywalla
Stammgast

#107 erstellt: 01. Jul 2010, 16:57

msb1 schrieb:

IMO that is the currently the 'better' way to do it of the 2. All this may change very soon since digital playback is in a nascent stage and rapidly developing. I think HDMI is a better interface but dont know off any 'audiophile' grade HDMI DAC's.

Hi All,
An avid HT friend of mine sent me this article that speaks of a move by several large media houses "conspiring" to kill the HDMI format.

article citing "conspiracy" against HDMI format & the move to kill this format

anyone else seen/read/heard similar news???

Amp_Nut
Inventar

#108 erstellt: 01. Jul 2010, 17:59

The HDMI Connector has 19 pins. There is also the outer shroud, that could be used ( ? ) for Shielding / ground ? That would be the 20th Electrical connection on HDMI.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HDMI_Connector_Pinout.svg

Ethernet Cable ( Cat-5 etc ) & Ethernet connectors have only 4 pairs of unshielded, single strand cable. A total of 8 wires, and no shield....

Wonder how Ethernet can match upto HDMI

Amp_Nut
Inventar

#109 erstellt: 01. Jul 2010, 18:04

Wadia will be offering Retro-fit USB modules for most of their CD players ...

The series u Upgrade has 2 versions. The first version is for the Wadia 381i, 581i, 781i, 860x and 861 (available now). The second version is for the Wadia 521, 27ix and 931 adds our Clocklinked USB input to our decoding computers (available late 2010).

These upgrades can be purchased through your local Wadia dealer or distributor. OR you can contact Wadia directly by submitting the online Service Request Form, and we will coordinate your upgrade for you.

The U Series products are USB fitted ... U(SB) Series.

[Beitrag von Amp_Nut am 01. Jul 2010, 18:05 bearbeitet]

bhagwan69
Inventar

#110 erstellt: 02. Jul 2010, 03:50

I always wondered why was it that no audio manufacturer ever made a DAC with an HDMI input ?
I am sure it can do hi-rez audio...
So digital out from a transport - say a dvd player - into a DAC to do the conversion...
Has any one come across such a DAC ?
Kindly share your findings...

Amp_Nut
Inventar

#111 erstellt: 02. Jul 2010, 05:35

The high Bandwidth, multi-wire HDMI solution would be ideal for I2S connectivity, over distances prevalent in Audioophile systems.

The main reason ?? ) why Audiophile manufacturers dont use it, is that besides the 4 cents per connector royalty, there is a US $ 10,000 Licence Fee, to be paid ANNUALLY !

I do remember that the PS Audio DAC used HDMI as an I2S interface, some years ago. I remember wowing the idea, and wondering "why did others not think of it earlier."

Reports are that Wyred4Sound also uses the HDMI interface for I2S connectivity.

IMHO HDMI would be an overkill to replace SPDIF for standard res Audio, except where the SPDIF runs out of steam for high res audio connectivity.

But with the luxury of 19 wires that the HDMI offers, why use only 2 to implement an inherently compromised SPDIF interface instead of I2S ?

Guys if you know of other audio DACs using HDMI, do post. Would be interesting.

[Beitrag von Amp_Nut am 02. Jul 2010, 05:36 bearbeitet]

bombaywalla
Stammgast

#112 erstellt: 02. Jul 2010, 19:33

Amp_Nut schrieb:

The HDMI Connector has 19 pins. There is also the outer shroud, that could be used ( ? ) for Shielding / ground ? That would be the 20th Electrical connection on HDMI.

Amp_Nut,
just because HDMI has 19 pins does not mean that all 19 pins will be used to transmit the audio signal.
If you read the HDMI standard, you'll see that HDMI is setup for relaying 8 channels of data with each channel using 1 pair of wires. So, this accounts for 16 of the 19 wires. The other wires are supply & ground & one wire is for device-device signalling.
So, when the audio signal is being broadcast over HDMI it will use just 1 pair (i.e. just 2 wires). The other channels will sit idle.
In the CAT5/CAT5e cable, there are 4 pairs of wires - all unshielded but relying on being twisted to overcome interference - that are all used to transmit the signal to its destination.
Re. the signalling scheme - CAT5/CAT5e cables usually transmit data using the Manchester coding scheme while the HDMI cables use the TDMS signalling scheme.
BUT.......what's preventing CAT5/CAT5e from using any other signalling scheme for transmitting audio/video??
So, I think that the signalling scheme is a non-issue.
The max length for CAT5 cables is 100m (i.e. some 330 ft) which should be sufficient for most in-home wiring.
I do not know the max length for HDMI cable routing. Anyone?

After reading a bit on HDMI & CAT5/CAT5e I think that the total number of wires in HDMI seems to have misled you into thinking that all 18 or 19 wires are being used to transmit just 1 audio/video signal channel. I believe that's just not the case.
Anyone else who has done more research on HDMI & CAT5/CAT5e do let us know if I'm off-base stating what I did above. Thanks.