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THE 'SOUND' OF FUSES

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Autor
Beitrag
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#1 erstellt: 19. Feb 2010, 14:16
For a long time now, I have been reading reports that fuses also contribute to sound quality.

While the jury is still out on why / how / Really ? ( ) a 2 meter mains cord can change the sound, the fuse takes that argument to a different level, since now, just 1 centimeter of wire is attributed to changing the sound of an audio product.

A good friend who lives abroad wrote to me that he recently popped a couple of 'Audiophile' fuses into his 300B Class A Valve mono-blocs and they made a HUGE difference to the sound.

The same put into his CD player made ZERO difference !

( The Fusues are Euros 20 each, and were loaned to him by a 'believer.'

Anyone here have any experience with using 'Audiophile' fuses ?

Do post your experiences, .... or even your thoughts.

Thanks
msb1
Stammgast
#2 erstellt: 19. Feb 2010, 20:11
Hi AN,

Haven't tried 'audiophile' power fuses, but bypassing the tweeter protection fuses on my Maggies made them sound many fold better.

I have tried some pretty weird things like Mpgino Discs, Quartz Resonators, Schumann Resonators, etc. I initialy thought they made a difference and now think they really don't.
Manek
Inventar
#3 erstellt: 20. Feb 2010, 07:04
Ampnut.

These audiophile fuses, are they made from oxygen free or occ copper ? :-)


On a serious note, I wonder if the "audiophile" fuses are true to their rating ? or.
Is it just thicker wire ? Or is it that sinngle strand of good quality copper ?
I would assume they are primarily built for low resistance and max current delivery ?

Actually I have read about a few people who solder their fuses to the fuse holders for better contact and they claim big benifits.


[Beitrag von Manek am 20. Feb 2010, 07:06 bearbeitet]
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#4 erstellt: 20. Feb 2010, 08:29
Hi Manek,

Check out the Audiophile fuses available from FURUTECH

They are sold in a range of ratings, so I guess that they DO take the ratings seriously.

Yes, I can vouch that Soldering Fuses DOES make a MEASURABLE difference.

I recall testing a 200 Watt RMS per channel MOSFET amplifier. ( Elector Crescendo based). At 200 KHz and 200 Watts per channel ( this would kill Most Bipolar amps for sure), there was HF Oscillation, which cleared up when the Fuses in the DC power buses were soldered.

A bypass capacitor across the fuses also killed about 80% of the hash, but soldering was Best !


Incidentally, years ago, I also sold Military and Space qualified fuses to BEL & ISRO So the 'humble' fuse is not so Humble after all.
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#5 erstellt: 20. Feb 2010, 08:30
Bhagwan69 (or anyone else) Know anyone that sells FURUTECH Fuses in India ?
Arj
Inventar
#6 erstellt: 20. Feb 2010, 08:47
best place do buy might be from Chris Venhaus

while you are at it you can buy some receptacles/plugs/solder et al..
Arj
Inventar
#7 erstellt: 20. Feb 2010, 08:50
AN, while you are at it..would you know as to whats the difference between a fast burn and slow burn fuse and how is the applicability defined ie for amps/cdps etc etc ?
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#8 erstellt: 20. Feb 2010, 10:22
Arj, Glass Cartridge fuses (they are typically used in all HiFi ) are available as Fast Blow or Slow Blow.

FAST BLOW FUSES
You can visualy idebtify these as they have a single straight wire in them, that can be seen thru the transparent glass cartridge.

NOTE:
All fuses are supposed to withstand their rated current indefinitely. Hence you can pass 1 Ampere (or less ) thru ANY fuse for an indefinite period, without the fuse rupturing / blowing.

A Fast blow fuse will blow quickly beyond its rated current. The greater the excess current, the quicker it will blow.

As an illustrative example, a 1 Ampere Fast Blow fuse may :

Blow in 0.5 second if the current thru it is 2 Amperes,
but
Blow in 0.1 second if the current thru it is 10 Amperes.

A fast blow fuse is used in a circuit where there are no significant current surges, for example, feeding a CD Player's circuits AFTER the Power Supply.



A SLOW BLOW FUSE
is designed to allow brief current surges, such as the brief inrush current, when a transformer in a Power Amplifier is switched on.

These fuses can be identified visually, by a 'coil' of wire in the fuse:

http://en.wikipedia....-ccbysawikipedia.jpg

As an illustrative example, a 1 Ampere Slow Blow fuse may :

Will sustain for 1 second even if 2Amperes Flows thru it
and maybe
sustain for 0.1 second even if 5 Amperes Flows thru it.

The characteristics of current vs time are published by the fuse manufacturer, in the fuse data sheet.


Use of the correct fuse is critical to ensure that the fuse atleast tries to protect the components after it, but often, 'semiconductors protect the fuse' and you will have a blown IC or transistor, with the fuse intact !


Some transformers such as a Torroid have a higher InRush current (on switch on) than a conventional ( E I ) transformer, and Slow Blow fuses are best used BEFORE the Toroid transformer, EVEN IF ITS A CD Player.

The general perception however to use a Fast blow fuse in low powered equipment ( CD Player, Pre Amps tc) and Slow Blow Fuses in High Powered stuff like power amps or integrated amps. This perception is ... as explained above, not necessarily correct.

Best to replace a fuse with what the manufacturer suggests or with the same rating of the fuse that has blown... IF its the original fuse


[Beitrag von Amp_Nut am 20. Feb 2010, 10:32 bearbeitet]
Arj
Inventar
#9 erstellt: 20. Feb 2010, 10:37

Thanks Sir !
Manek
Inventar
#10 erstellt: 20. Feb 2010, 12:05
Ampnut some more on those bypass caps on fuse holders...


Manek
abhi.pani
Inventar
#11 erstellt: 20. Feb 2010, 15:00
WOW !!
What a coincidence !
Just a couple of days I started some research on this very topic. I was looking for some Furutech connectors for my power cord and I stumbled upon their "FUSES".
The more I read, the more I was intrigued by the responses of people who have used them.
Here is an extract of what Steve McCormack has to say about it:


As a high-end audio designer, I am always on the lookout for new ways to improve the performance of my electronics. It has been clear to me for a long time that anything done to improve the quality of my power supplies has a direct beneficial effect on the sound of my equipment. What has been surprising (and not a little frustrating) is how important the “little details” have become - the AC power cords, AC inlets, internal wiring, and now the fuses themselves. Like most audiophiles, I was skeptical at first - the truth is that I didn’t "want" fuses to make any difference and become yet another detail to worry about. And yet when “audiophile grade” fuses first appeared, I knew I had to try them - the quality of the AC power path is simply too important to ignore.

So I tried the fuses from HiFi-Tuning and Isoclean, and was impressed by both. Here was a simple tweak that made a larger legitimate sonic improvement than many absurdly-high-priced cables I had tried, and cost a LOT less! Being happy with the HiFi-Tuning fuses, I did not immediately jump on the Furutech fuses when they first appeared, but I kept them in mind. Since I use a number of other Furutech products in my equipment designs and upgrades, I finally gave in and ordered some fuses.

Holy Smoke! To say I was impressed is an understatement! I was very surprised to hear that the Furutech fuses were outperforming the HiFi-Tuning fuses in every respect, and installing them throughout my system brought it up to a new level of performance. The Furutech fuses have quickly become my most highly recommended tweak, and one of my all-time favorites. I urge you to try them in your own system. Check the value and size of the main AC line fuses in your gear and order some Furutechs for at least your amp and preamp. As always, your mileage may vary, but I suspect you will be impressed and pleased with the improvement in clarity, dynamics, and engagement. Enjoy!"
Steve McCormack · Designer · SMcAudio.com · Vista, CA


I believe this guy a lot more than most reviewers. I have followed his post on AA and he is pretty honest.
In fact once, I had asked for a comparison between a Plinius model that I owned to a McCormack model that I wanted to upgrade to...To my surprise Steve himself took the initiative to clarify that Plinius is a lot superior and the upgrade would be too much of a surprise for him.
I was amazed by his "confession" which was not really required at that time.
Anyway, I just wanted to say that it looks like a good tweak and I am game for it...except that my amp needs 4 fuses to start with, which is turning out to be rather expensive .
bhagwan69
Inventar
#12 erstellt: 22. Feb 2010, 16:53

Amp_Nut schrieb:
Bhagwan69 (or anyone else) Know anyone that sells FURUTECH Fuses in India ?


Sir,

I do not think Furutech is in India.
I am keen to try one of their new power cords myself. Am not getting a good lead.

On the Fuse front - I have never tried to change them, so I have no idea or any opinion on it.
Sorry !
square_wave
Inventar
#13 erstellt: 24. Feb 2010, 16:07
My two cents.

Right from the power plug point to the cone of the driver, it is a long chain. If two different makes of electronic components having the same spec can make different sounds, then all connectors, fuses that come in the chain will affect the sound in varying degrees.

But what is important for an audiophile depends on where he is in the food chain. For someone having to deal with off the shelf finished products, investing in better fuses, connectors can be very important.

For a DIY / Modding wizard, the money can and will be appropriately spent elsewhere.
Savyasaachi
Inventar
#14 erstellt: 27. Feb 2010, 01:53
^^ agree with you there SW...for a DIYer..all this comes secondary.

Btw, best time to stock up on such bits and pieces is when parts connexion or soniccraft hold their special offers (usually around 20% discount).
bapp
Inventar
#15 erstellt: 28. Mrz 2012, 16:31

Is it just thicker wire ? Or is it that sinngle strand of good quality copper ?
I would assume they are primarily built for low resistance and max current delivery ?

Impossible!
A 10A fuse for example has a certain resistance. If you increased it, it would no longer be a 10A fuse.
Generally, fuses, especially those not part of the signal path, do never change anything, as long as they don't replace a defective one.

bapp
AndreasHelke
Stammgast
#16 erstellt: 18. Okt 2012, 23:20
Hearing has two parts. The one is the function of the ears and the creation of the nerve impulses by the sensory cells in your ears. And then the processing of those signals in the hearing center of your brain. It is almost impossible to change the actual raw sound impression created by your brain by changing anything in the electronics of your hifi system. But the sound perception you have is a perception and not a faithful reproduction of the signals from your hearing nerves and processing centers in the brain.

This perception is definitely influenced by anything you believe in. Even by perfecftly ridiculous tuning methods like painting the outside edge of your CDs green.

So if you believe that the Fuse sounds better it actually does sounds better for you. At least al long as you don´t do a properly designed blind tests where your believes whatever they are are no longer able to influence your conscious perception of the sound you actually hear.

For me the idea that a fuse can influence the sound is almost but not quite as ridiculous as believing in green paint on CDs. So for me those tuning methods will not change my sound perception.


[Beitrag von AndreasHelke am 18. Okt 2012, 23:26 bearbeitet]
Mimamau
Inventar
#17 erstellt: 13. Nov 2012, 06:10
Don't know if it changed something, just out of curiosity I exchanged the fuses of my NAD C541i with fuses from AHP.
It just 'feels' better.

I'm going to replace the fuses in the signal path of my amp with a thick wire. There's a speaker protection circuit after the amp, so I'm not afraid of destroying my speakers. As it's running for quite some time perfectly, I don't think anything will blow soon.
Sumpfkraut
Ist häufiger hier
#18 erstellt: 10. Jan 2013, 00:17

Amp_Nut schrieb:
Incidentally, years ago, I also sold Military and Space qualified fuses to BEL & ISRO So the 'humble' fuse is not so Humble after all.

So let me get this straight. First you open a thread where you appear to ask for information on a certain topic, trying to jumpstart a discussion about it, and then just a handful of posts later, it turns out that you have a vested economical interest in the sales of "high-quality" fuses, simultaneously suggesting that there's more to their sound -as opposed to just their sturdiness in various exceptional environmental or different electronic conditions- than meets the eye?

Honi soit qui mal y pense.


[Beitrag von Sumpfkraut am 10. Jan 2013, 00:19 bearbeitet]
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