Kharma in India !

Now those are some serious Hi-end speakers. Would love to hear those.

From what i know there is more of Kharma to follow

Regards
SNV

This particular model I have not heard.

I have auditioned the Mini & the Midi on 2 different occasions with different electronics & I had liked what I had heard.

I would have liked the Kharma to be partnered with Goldmund. They sould great together. Not with the Kharma ice mono amps.

Do you know what the cables are ? Nordost or Kharma ?
DAC is Remiyo. Transport ?

Somthing that can take the fight home to the Wilsom Alexandria's in India. 4 pairs are sold - so I have been told.

High end is back in action. 1980's and now 2007 onwards.
Lots of more great gear should come in. My fingers are X-ed.

bhagwan69 schrieb:

This particular model I have not heard. I have auditioned the Mini & the Midi on 2 different occasions with different electronics & I had liked what I had heard. I would have liked the Kharma to be partnered with Goldmund. They sould great together. Not with the Kharma ice mono amps. Do you know what the cables are ? Nordost or Kharma ? DAC is Remiyo. Transport ? Somthing that can take the fight home to the Wilsom Alexandria's in India. 4 pairs are sold - so I have been told. High end is back in action. 1980's and now 2007 onwards. Lots of more great gear should come in. My fingers are X-ed.

Dear Bhagwan,

Its good to see the market evolve to hiend audio gear.
I dont know of the configuration yet, cables & transport. I have just heard about Kharma from you know who.
4 Wilson Alexandria's have been sold in India. Thats quite an acheivement. Are these actual figures or bold claims only to
Goldmund & Kharma partnered together, i dont see that as a problem. For all you know thats whats going to happen:L (i need to zip)

Regards
SNV

SNV schrieb:

bhagwan69 schrieb: . Dear Bhagwan, Its good to see the market evolve to hiend audio gear. I dont know of the configuration yet, cables & transport. I have just heard about Kharma from you know who. 4 Wilson Alexandria's have been sold in India. Thats quite an acheivement. Are these actual figures or bold claims only to Goldmund & Kharma partnered together, i dont see that as a problem. For all you know thats whats going to happen:L (i need to zip) Regards SNV

2 WA's I am aware of. Other 2 I cannot varify. Do not know the party.

I sure hope the Kharma amps get thrown out & not replaced with Plinius instead. The Goldmund Telos 2500 power amps & Mimesis 22S (Signature) pre amp. This would be a great set up. Cables from Siltech [Kharma gets its cables made @ Siltech] & the set up will surely be reference grade.
I am sure the room must be 1000 sq. ft. + so only thing will be placement and set up, for that Mr. Martijn Alblas
will fly in to Bangalore and oblige. I am sure that is the least that Kharma will do.

now those are some sweet speakers..

http://www.nadathur.com/index.htm

The speaker that got sold is not what I had mentioned;
I made a mistake.

It is the top of the line - 200 K euro piece.
Mr. Charles @ Kharma has confirmed it.

]http://img104.images...dexpyz9.th.jpg[/IMG][/url]

This is the correct model.

My mistake - first time around. Sorry.

http://www.nadathur.com/our_companies.htm

The Speaker :-

]http://img102.images...rontvt9.th.jpg[/IMG][/url]

The X-Over :-

URL=http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kharmaexqrefxoverboxns4.png][/URL]

I made a mistake in the model;
It is not the Grand, but the next model.
Great none the less.

Cables are Audiance [I believe - no confirmation]
Transport is Oracle
DAC is Reimyo
Pre Amp is 'home made' [DIY]

Any forum member has auditioned this set up ?
Inputs would be appreciated.

This must be one hell of a set up in India. As good as the Wilson Alexandria's [X-2's] that we have here.

Savyasaachi schrieb:

now those are some sweet speakers.. 8)

They are installed in Bangalore, you should try and drop by for a listen; I am sure it would be more than worth it !!!

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Savyasaachi schrieb: now those are some sweet speakers.. 8) They are installed in Bangalore, you should try and drop by for a listen; I am sure it would be more than worth it !!! :)

Installed in Bangalore , but where ? Is it on demo at some shop or is it a personal system...
Nonetheless, could you please give a pointer to how I could take a listen to these....

abhi.pani schrieb:

bhagwan69 schrieb: Savyasaachi schrieb: .. 8) :) Installed in Bangalore , but where ? Is it on demo at some shop or is it a personal system... ....

Shop demo !!! Sir you sure are dreaming......

This set up is is 10 Mill Rs. + & it has to go into somones house. I have put the reference up in my post [who the owner is - i.e.].
I do not know him. Some delaer may know. Ask around, I am sure you will get to him.
All the best !! If you do get the chance to hear it, please do share your experiance on the forum.

All the best !!!

10 million+.....

2 to 3 or maybe 4 mill is what I have heard many a times in India. But, this is a crazy set up. 10 Mill is a lot of money. 1 'S' Class in the HAll !!! Too Much !!

Hey Bhagwan,

Guess what set up i heard.

The TANNOY - WESTMINSTER ROYAL with ASR amplification with seperate power supplys for each channel.

What an experience dude. That speaker will give the competition a run for their money.
Simply beautiful speakers. Very well set up with a lot of pain and effort. Although i just heard a couple of tracks, these speakers amazed me. Always dreamed of owning something from their Prestige Line.
I am planning to buy the Tannoy Glenair for my self (at a later date ofcourse).

Have you had the chance to hear Glenairs.

Regards
SNV

I have heard the SR's 3 years back with Triangle - Megaline.
The Tannoys I heard are :-

]http://img510.images...uguszc1.th.jpg[/IMG]

I am sure the set up in SUrat must have been great !
I too have that visit pending.

What was the CD Player & Cables ?

Room treatment ?

One more I auditioned in Taipei - 2005 I think.

http://img506.images...rprepowertud8.th.jpg

This too was nice.
Well set up.

One more I auditioned in Taipei - 2005 I think.



This too was nice.
Well set up.

bhagwan69 schrieb:

I have heard the SR's 3 years back with Triangle - Megaline. The Tannoys I heard are :- ]http://img510.images...uguszc1.th.jpg[/IMG] I am sure the set up in SUrat must have been great ! I too have that visit pending. What was the CD Player & Cables ? Room treatment ?

Hey Bhagwan,

The cd player and cables are due for an upgrade will let you know when and what they will be upgraded to. Neverthless, it was an ethereal experience.

What do you think of the Glenair. (chota aadmi hoon, WR nahi kharid sakta)
Glenair is also a long shot, will take some time for me to buy those.
Wish i could hear them somewhere.

Regards
SNV

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
PERFORMANCE
Frequency response (-6dB) 32 Hz - 25 kHz
Recommended amplifier power 50 to 225 watt per channel
Power Rating 135 watt RMS, 550 watt peak
Maximum SPL 116.5 dB at 1 metre for 135 watt RMS, 122.5 dB at 1 metre for 550 watt peak
Total harmonic distortion Less than 1.25% at 135 watt RMS (50Hz to 20kHz)
Sensitivity 95 dB for 2.83 volt at 1 metre, half space
Nominal impedance 8 ohm
Minimum Impedance 5.5 ohm
Phase response System behaves substantially as a frequency independent time delay
CROSSOVER
Crossover frequency 1.1 kHz
Crossover type 2nd order LF, 1st order HF. Bi-Wired, Hard-Wired passive, low loss.
DRIVE UNIT
Driver Type LF 380 mm (15”) Dual Concentric, treated paper Cone, twin roll fabric surround
Dispersion 90 degree conical
CONSTRUCTION
Enclosure Type Twin reflex
Cabinet construction High density birch ply. Internally cross braced and heavily damped
Weight 45 kg (99 lbs)
Cabinet dimensions (H x W x D) 1050 x 460 x 448 mm (41 1/3 x 18 1/8 x 17 5/8”)
Cabinet volume 115 litre (4.0 cu.ft.)


I have not auditioned these;

However, they must be a great speaker.



Go for it !

Nice with Cyrus.

TannoyIndia will give it to you @ a great price - demo purpose in Pune.

Ten million Rs………….that is a crore right ?
I wonder what home made pre this gentleman has opted for ?
Will dig around for info.

square_wave schrieb:

Ten million Rs………….that is a crore right ? I wonder what home made pre this gentleman has opted for ? Will dig around for info.

Yes sir !
As I mentioned 1 'S' Class Merc in the Hall.
Not to forget the cables - Audiance -
Pre amp - I too would love to know & take it home for a demo. I am sure it must be great.

bhagwan69 schrieb:

I have put the reference up in my post [who the owner is - i.e.]. I do not know him. All the best !!!

Nadathur Investments was founded by N S Raghavan - co-founder of Infosys - now you know why the loudspeakers went there :-). Somebody in the family must be a big time audiophile. I do not know the man personally but I worked for a start up that was partly funded by them at one point of time. Will try to dig around and get some info if possible.

Regards,
- Nagaraj

"When money talks ....

.... everybody listens !!!"

At that kind of insane cost is it worth it?
I wonder....

Kamal schrieb:

At that kind of insane cost is it worth it? I wonder....

I would love to get the opportunity to listen before I could form an opinion.

Have auditioned Kharma several times - in different places, but not this particular set up in Bangalore. I would love to take a day trip for an audition. Fly in - listen - do lunch - listen again - fly out.
I sure hope it gets possible some day !!!

Fingers are X-ed.

bhagwan69 schrieb:

I would love to take a day trip for an audition. Fly in - listen - do lunch - listen again - fly out.

Sir. you live up to your name ("Bhagwan"..not the No. ) in your passion for audio equipment.
cheers.

Thank you sir, if that is a compliment !!

I too would have prferred 'bhagwan' in place of 'bhagwan69'
but, it was not available. Hence the 69 part had to be added on.

But, what I said

I would love to take a day trip for an audition. Fly in - listen - do lunch - listen again - fly out

I really stand by it. 2nd session post lunch too is very important. Always come back to a set up after a break. It will give you a fresh prespective to what you have auditioned and what more you want to list out for.

These 'super set ups' and always a pleasure to listen to, that to in a 'controlled environment'.
Most of the times I have heard them @ Audio Shows, where the set up is not maximised. Here, time has been spent in tweaking the set up, so it is more relaxed and not stressed on the time front.

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Thank you sir, if that is a compliment !!

very much so.. passion and interest in activities other than for material gains is always very nice to see ! makes life so much more enjoyable..

Would love to read the review, whenever it materialises.

This is great stuff, I too would be delighted to hear this setup though I was never impressed by the kharmas but Im sure this gentleman knows what hes doing as hes gone through a fair amount of speakers before buying these speakers (Thats what I have heard.). I too wonder what DIY pre-amp is there in the chain

So bhagwan you agree buying a "HIGH-END" is a function of money

I would love to be someday this fortunate to buy a setup of this price-point!!


Regards,

Satyam Bachani.

So bhagwan you agree buying a "HIGH-END" is a function of money

This is a topic I always wanted to write about but kept postponing....
On one hand as Bhagwan says, its true that buying a good hifi (read expensive) is largely a function of heart. Its always not about affordability. I have met multiple audiophiles who could comfortably afford a system multiple times the price of their current system...but still dont have the heart to go for it. That doesnt mean their current setup is bad, infact they are much better than what we middle class people own but still I knew that if I were in their position I would have gone for something much higher-end.
It also doesnt mean they are not crazy about hifi, they are just as crazy about hifi as most of us here are but still they just dont have the "heart" to go for something bigger.
Thats one part of the story (basically supporting Bhagwan's views on affording hifi).

Then there is the real thing called "AFFORDABILITY". Everyone cannot afford everything.
A decent and affordable system to me could be real high-end and unaffordable to someone else. I remember Bhagwan saying once, that instead of putting your money into a Car (which is going to stand outside in the dust all day) why cant one buy a good setup for the same money which is going to entertain you in your living room and be your personal possession.
To me though it looks logical but I dont find it practical. How many audiophiles do we come across who have a system worth 5 Lakh+ but still dont have a car (because they couldnt afford it) ??? I have met none. The reason is simple....a Car is a basic necessity which one needs to move around. In India its still a luxury, but for those who can afford it, its a necessary gadget/equipment just like a Refrigerator or a Mixer-Grinder. These things cannot replace a hifi in the normal course of life. So, only passion is not enough to buy a good hifi...but then its a mixture of both (passion and money) which enables one to decide how much he would spare into his hobby (hifi).

Good point, abhi.pani.
Honestly i think its all about ones own prirorities in life, ofcourse keeping in mind the Affordibility and Passion factor.
I feel everyone spends more money on things they are passionate about.
Be it cars, hifi gear, watches, wines, etc. Some spent to flaunt and some only if its worthwhile.
Just one thing though, if i can afford to buy a better set up then i think i will have the heart to go for it, simply because i am passionate about it.

Regards
SNV

Just one thing though, if i can afford to buy a better set up then i think i will have the heart to go for it, simply because i am passionate about it.

Hi SNV,
It could be true in your case but its not a generic fact.
It looks simple, its actually not that straight forward IMO. You may be passionate about music and hifi, but when it comes to spending money, you tend to look at many other things apart from your passion.
Some of the thoughts that may hijack your passionate mind:

1. Is it worth the money ?? What would be the manufacturing cost, and how much more I am paying (a typical business man's mind) ?

2. What other things could I buy with the same money ? Instead of a Corolla I could buy a C class...which would take my social image to another level.

3. Just because I can buy it, should I plunge that kind of a money into something which doesnt have a re-sale value(basically financial returns)..couldnt I invest it on something which could have given me positive returns ? Its all about profit-loss

There could be many other thoughts like these which will ultimately make you weak at heart to spend that kind of a money on audio even though you are passionate about audio. Its just that you are not able to spend that money with EASE so you keep distance from such a thought and find excuses for not spending on it.

abhi.pani schrieb:

Just one thing though, if i can afford to buy a better set up then i think i will have the heart to go for it, simply because i am passionate about it. Hi SNV, It could be true in your case but its not a generic fact. It looks simple, its actually not that straight forward IMO. You may be passionate about music and hifi, but when it comes to spending money, you tend to look at many other things apart from your passion. Some of the thoughts that may hijack your passionate mind: 1. Is it worth the money ?? What would be the manufacturing cost, and how much more I am paying (a typical business man's mind) ? 2. What other things could I buy with the same money ? Instead of a Corolla I could buy a C class...which would take my social image to another level. 3. Just because I can buy it, should I plunge that kind of a money into something which doesnt have a re-sale value(basically financial returns)..couldnt I invest it on something which could have given me positive returns ? Its all about profit-loss There could be many other thoughts like these which will ultimately make you weak at heart to spend that kind of a money on audio even though you are passionate about audio. Its just that you are not able to spend that money with EASE so you keep distance from such a thought and find excuses for not spending on it. :)

Dear abhi.pani,

As i said, it is all about ones PRIORITIES.
Agreed, whats applicable to me is definitely not generic besides that was about me.
Ofcourse the first stage is to decide what i am going to upgrade to and if the same is value for money. Only once i am convinced will i have the heart to go for it.

Upgrade from a Corolla to a C class or upgrade my hifi gear is again ones own PRIORITY. (i would prefer bmw & audi to the merc ;))

Sir, not everything in life is about profit & loss. Things one is passionate about, one tends to overlook certain aspects.

It never is EASY to spend money. Just a tad little easier on things one is really passionate about.

Regards
SNV

abhi.pani schrieb:

1. Is it worth the money ?? What would be the manufacturing cost, and how much more I am paying (a typical business man's mind) ?

well but again some of the many successful business men are successful since instead of looking at the manufacturing cost they looked at " what is the value it will give me" and then look at the price ou pay for that value

value is so different for different folks that one mans value is another mans waste.

sbfx schrieb:

So bhagwan you agree buying a "HIGH-END" is a function of money

Hi sbfx,
How have you been lately? Long time no hear. Hope that all is well w/ you & that your system continues to delight you.

Just a comment on the above statement: How does one define "HIGH-END"?
what I've learnt over the years is that "HIGH END" audio equipment </> "HIGH END" sound at all times!
Sometimes, HIGH-END audio gear (which is very pricey) DOES re-produce HIGH-END sound. However, so far, I can probably count those instances on 1 hand.
A person can spend a lot of money & buy a very nice piece of audio eye-candy but the sound might not measure up to the price & maybe even the looks. The market is rife with such audio equipment.
So, my ASSUMPTION is that you are referring to buying HIGH-END audio gear (that might or might not sound HIGH-END).
Or, did I misinterpret you? Thanks!

abhi.pani schrieb:

That doesnt mean their current setup is bad, infact they are much better than what we middle class people own but still I knew that if I were in their position I would have gone for something much higher-end.

why would you have gone "for something much higher-end.?" is it because you equate higher-end audio gear with higher-end re-produced sound?
If you do, it would be a mistake!
There are many pieces of audio gear that cost reasonably that will deliver hi-end sound & even look very pleasing to the eye (not as pleasing as some very expensive audio gear, of course).

abhi.pani schrieb:

These things cannot replace a hifi in the normal course of life. So, only passion is not enough to buy a good hifi...but then its a mixture of both (passion and money) which enables one to decide how much he would spare into his hobby (hifi).

agree! even in western countries where people seem to have more disposable income, hi-end audio (both gear & sound) still remain a luxury item. It is more affordable to the monied.

abhi.pani schrieb:

Instead of a Corolla I could buy a C class...which would take my social image to another level.

spoken like a true Indian!!
<< the Chinese & Hong Kong natives are even worse when it comes to image! >>
this statement reminds me of the TV ad for Canon's EOS Rebel SLR camera that Andre Agassi did when he was on tour. The catch phrase was "Image is Everything!"

abhi.pani schrieb:

Its all about profit-loss

i'm afraid that I do not agree. Just reading that whole post of yours, you seem to have a shopwalla mentality towards audio!

SNV schrieb:

It never is EASY to spend money.

somehow, it has never been an issue with me!!
I could use some lessons on financial restraint!

Arj schrieb:

well but again some of the many successful business men are successful since instead of looking at the manufacturing cost they looked at " what is the value it will give me" and then look at the price ou pay for that value

well said, Arj!
that is precisely what Mr Amar Bose has been/is doing his entire business life just to name 1 audio personality.
In fact, in the western world, this is the way I see hi-end audio: if it has some value/importance to a few select people, then, milk them.
These days there is a raging debate on the quality of fuses used in audio gear!
So, this has come to some "hi-end" fuse manuf's attention & one can buy slo & fast blow fuses for some 10s of dollars! It seems to make a diff to those people who spent the money on it! An ordinary fuse in an electrical shop is a few cents BUT, oh no! that does not sound good (how could it? it's not hi-end!).
So, what's the value of a hi-end fuse to you? A lot? OK, then it's $10 per fuse for you, please!!
The (stupid) market here is bearing that price!

So, this has come to some "hi-end" fuse manuf's attention & one can buy slo & fast blow fuses for some 10s of dollars! It seems to make a diff to those people who spent the money on it! An ordinary fuse in an electrical shop is a few cents BUT, oh no! that does not sound good (how could it? it's not hi-end!). So, what's the value of a hi-end fuse to you? A lot? OK, then it's $10 per fuse for you, please!! The (stupid) market here is bearing that price!

Please do not trivialise fuses.

About a decade ago, I sold Space Qualified fuses. Their role is quite demanding... when you look at it, even for audio applications.

On a more 'down to earth' application, when I had built a 200 Watt SS amp... based on the Elector Cresendo, I noticed a bit of High freq hash, at high power levels, and high freq... a capacitor accross the fuse socket cured it.

An even better cure was to solder the fuse instead of keeping it in spring clamps....

abhi.pani wrote:

Its all about profit-loss

SNV Wrote:

Sir, not everything in life is about profit & loss. Things one is passionate about, one tends to overlook certain aspects.

Bombaywalla wrote:

i'm afraid that I do not agree. Just reading that whole post of yours, you seem to have a shopwalla mentality towards audio!

Looks like both of you gentlemen have got me grossly wrong.
The three points I have mentioned in my earlier post which I said could hijack a passionate mind....are NOT my views towards hifi (as Bombaywalla inferred) nor did I mean that its your views towards hifi (as SNV inferred)....all I wanted to stress is, these could be typically some of the thoughts that could disallow a passionate audiophile from spending higher on an audio equipment(even if he likes the equipment and can afford it), there could be many more scenarios like these....the point I have already brought in focus and would like to write again is

I have met multiple audiophiles who could comfortably afford a system multiple times the price of their current system...but still dont have the heart to go for it.

Initially I didnt know what stopped them to go for something better (which they admired and could afford), but as the conversation went on, I could somewhat make out that they didnt have the heart to spend more on audio equipment (they were already drooling over the amount they have spent on audio). I cant say if they were less passionate because the way they spoke all about audio and there love for hifi music reproduction...I thought they are just as passionate as most of us are. But still they just cant think of spending more.

abhi.pani wrote:

That doesnt mean their current setup is bad, infact they are much better than what we middle class people own but still I knew that if I were in their position I would have gone for something much higher-end.

Bombaywalla wrote:

why would you have gone "for something much higher-end.?" is it because you equate higher-end audio gear with higher-end re-produced sound? If you do, it would be a mistake! There are many pieces of audio gear that cost reasonably that will deliver hi-end sound & even look very pleasing to the eye (not as pleasing as some very expensive audio gear, of course).

I know there are many such audio gears whose sound beat their prices easily, and I really dont mean higher-price = higher-end = better sound...
All I wanted to say is, if I had that kind of money and I admired a piece of audio gear (because of its sonic qualities) which I could also afford, I would have gone for it. But thats not the case with everyone.

abhi.pani wrote:

Instead of a Corolla I could buy a C class...which would take my social image to another level.

Bombaywalla wrote:

spoken like a true Indian!!

Its a general trend in our forum to give a automobile analogy of situations to make things simpler to understand.
Again these are not my views towards hifi, but a general thought process that I have come across first hand. As SNV said, it could be matter of priorities but somewhere in the back of my mind I feel its more about heart. If a guy can buy a C class, he can as well upgrade his audio gears (that is if he has a better product in mind (which he wants to own) which could be more expensive but still affordable) but I dont see it happen that way many a times. So whats lacking ?

Sometimes I feel we are deviating from the topic. Its not about how much is high-end or if high-end justifies its price tag etc etc...
The question is like this, in general a good hifi setup costs somewhere in the range of 7-10 lacs, can most of us afford that kind of a setup ? According to Bhagwan, YES we can. Instead of buying a good car and parking it outside, put that money into hifi and things like that. Now is this practical ????
The originator of this topic Mr.Bhagwan69 is nowhere to be seen.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Please do not trivialise fuses.

looks like I just did, didn't I??!!!

Amp_Nut schrieb:

On a more 'down to earth' application, when I had built a 200 Watt SS amp... based on the Elector Cresendo, I noticed a bit of High freq hash, at high power levels, and high freq... a capacitor accross the fuse socket cured it. An even better cure was to solder the fuse instead of keeping it in spring clamps....

very interesting! this is some 1st-hand data for me. I suppose I that I need to try it out for myself. It might just end up being like the "electrical outlets do not make any difference" case for me (where I eventually learnt otherwise!). I just might have to eat my words when I find out the effect of fuses.........

abhi.pani schrieb:

abhi.pani wrote: Looks like both of you gentlemen have got me grossly wrong. The three points I have mentioned in my earlier post which I said could hijack a passionate mind....are NOT my views towards hifi (as Bombaywalla inferred)

Hi Abhi.pani,
OK, thanx for the clarification. Looks like we did misinterpret you.
However, I'd like to say: try not to espouse views on in a discussion that are not yours. I've found that it eventually lands you in trouble when you have to defend those views & when contradictions appear in your defense of those views.
If you are going to write something that is not your view, try to make it very clear that you are writing something hypothetical OR some 2nd-hand data. it will save you some grief.

abhi.pani schrieb:

Again these are not my views towards hifi, but a general thought process that I have come across first hand. As SNV said, it could be matter of priorities but somewhere in the back of my mind I feel its more about heart. If a guy can buy a C class, he can as well upgrade his audio gears (that is if he has a better product in mind (which he wants to own) which could be more expensive but still affordable) but I dont see it happen that way many a times. So whats lacking ?

I don't know what's lacking (in terms of spending more on audio when the person is capable of).
I seem to think that this is happening locally to India where hi-end is a brand new market. People in India have NEVER spent 1-10 lakhs of money on good sound! So, they could be rationalizing to themselves that it's "madness" that they already have so much money on good sound hence cannot find it in themselves to spend anymore. Somewhat like buyer's remorse.
I certainly do not see it in the USA - hell, the number of pieces of new & used gear selling on Audiogon on a daily basis is very high! Lots of people buying/churning equipment. Those that have the money indulge their itch (as expected) but they are a number of not-so-rich that are also on the buy-sell equipment bandwagon here! Not much seems to be stopping them from upgrading all the time!

However, I'd like to say: try not to espouse views on in a discussion that are not yours. I've found that it eventually lands you in trouble when you have to defend those views & when contradictions appear in your defense of those views. If you are going to write something that is not your view, try to make it very clear that you are writing something hypothetical OR some 2nd-hand data. it will save you some grief.

hmmmm...may be the way I represented my post earlier was not all that refined with appropriate disclaimers....Thanks for letting me know...I would take care.

I seem to think that this is happening locally to India where hi-end is a brand new market. People in India have NEVER spent 1-10 lakhs of money on good sound! So, they could be rationalizing to themselves that it's "madness" that they already have so much money on good sound hence cannot find it in themselves to spend anymore. Somewhat like buyer's remorse.

Thats I exactly what I meant when I mentioned about "Having the heart".

Somewhat off topic on this thread, but let me put a few pointers on a good fuse.

1. The Fuse Wire:
The fuse wire cycles a Zillion times between room temperature and close to its evaporating point ! ( even more true in an audio power amp than in most other appliances, because the current thru the fuse fluctuates Wildly when the amp is doing duty )

If there is air ( oxygen ) around it, it will oxidise... initially on the surface, but with thermal cycling, the oxidation can penetrate deep into the wire, changing its electrical and material characteristics..

2. THE FUSE SEAL
The fuse MUST have a hermetic ( gas tight ) seal. The fuse body should be filled with an inert gas such as nitrogen or Argon, and then SEALED.

Getting a hermetic seal between the glass tube and the metal caps ( Glass-metal ) seal is not cheap.

If the seal is not perfect, all the problems with the fuse wire indicated above ( in 1 ) will occur.

3. The Contacts: Though the fuse end caps are often coated with non oxidising coating, by far the best is when the fuse is supplied with FACTORY FITTED wires for soldering.

Applying a hot soldering iron directly on the fuse caps and possibly over heating it can break the seal, or create a loose / dry solder inside the fuse between the fuse wire and the metal cap...

To summarise, if 2 & 3 are taken care of, 1 should take care of itself .

Just my 2cents ...

I have the heart to spend it , Give me the money!!!

Satyam.

Hi Bombaywalla,

I'm doing good been fairly busy lately, how are things on your end??, with regards to high-end no I dint mean to say anything with regards to the setup but the sheer price of the product the product in question is being the Kharma is a super expensive speaker that I'm personally not very fond of at all but still to own it is a function of money.

Most super-priced high-end setups have failed to impress but some few select have been very special. The point being I would love to own a SUPER-Expensive HIGH-END setup but in the end its a function of money ALWAYS. Passion has to be there otherwise we wouldn't be here chatting about it


Best Regards,

Satyam.

sbfx schrieb:

I have the heart to spend it , Give me the money!!! Satyam.

Nice one Sir !
This sure makes my day;

Dearest, it is always a function of the mind; If you can justify it, you will find a way to get to it. Conversly, all the money in the world, no idea, no passion, no purchase ! Simple.

Money is surely important, but where in your list of priorities it gets placed is a function of the mind.

You cannot expect a 'marginalised existance' person to dream of 'high end'. He sure can be a 'music lover'.
But a 'reasonable placed' person can and could purchase a nice set up - not worth 10 mill, but 1 mill is a possible option. 1 regular car in your living room is not that bad !!!

sbfx schrieb:

Most super-priced high-end setups have failed to impress but some few select have been very special. The point being I would love to own a SUPER-Expensive HIGH-END setup but in the end its a function of money ALWAYS.

Sir, where would you place the 'Trident' ?
Expensive or Super Expensive ?
LumenWHite ? E or SE ?
Both these you had liked [if my menory serves me correct] !!!!

Good things just happen to cost a lot, what can we do ? Make good products & try to make them cheap, and that is a very very difficult task.

I would be the happiest person if the Trident had a list of 20 K US in place of 90 K. How that speaker played !!!! Alas.........

Kamal schrieb:

Would love to read the review, whenever it materialises.

No reading sir.
You must hear it, form an opinion for your self.
That is the only way to proceed.
I am tired of these audio magazine reviews and the politics of commercian press etc.

Listen / Evaluate and Judge.

Simple and straight.

abhi.pani schrieb:

Thats one part of the story (basically supporting Bhagwan's views on affording hifi). Then there is the real thing called "AFFORDABILITY". Everyone cannot afford everything. (hifi).images/smilies/insane.gif

Sir, this holds true for each and every person under the sun. There will always be somthing in the world that some one cannot afford.
I cannot afford the things that I may want, you may be constrained by budgets at your end, well even our friend 'Mr. Kharma' may have a budget constraint, could not buy the 'top of the line' from Kharma & purchased the 2nd model. Maybe the Rockport Technology was out of his budget ??? That is not important, what matters is that every person 'buys' what he likes and wants to believe he can afford. Simple.
More often than not, money is there, but the will to spend it is not there.

abhi.pani schrieb:

I remember Bhagwan saying once, that instead of putting your money into a Car (which is going to stand outside in the dust all day) why cant one buy a good setup for the same money which is going to entertain you in your living room and be your personal possession. To me though it looks logical but I dont find it practical. How many audiophiles do we come across who have a system worth 5 Lakh+ but still dont have a car (because they couldnt afford it) ??? I have met none. The reason is simple....a Car is a basic necessity which one needs to move around. (hifi).images/smilies/insane.gif

I could put myself in that category.
All the cars I have, if totalled in value, would not cost more than my set up. Besides, my room is of a lower value than my set up !!! [i.e. even at current prices of real estate - mad prices].

Cars are basic - one does need them to move around, sure. But audio gives me more pleasure than cars give to me.
Ferrari for a day or Avalon ISIS for a day [just to listen to in some one elses house] & I will take the 2nd option.

I love Ferrari's [Actually Lamborghini's I prefer] please do let me emphasise, but the ISIS, I am very very anxious to listen to..........

bhagwan69 schrieb:

sbfx schrieb: Most super-priced high-end setups have failed to impress but some few select have been very special. The point being I would love to own a SUPER-Expensive HIGH-END setup but in the end its a function of money ALWAYS. Sir, where would you place the 'Trident' ? Expensive or Super Expensive ? LumenWHite ? E or SE ? Both these you had liked [if my menory serves me correct] !!!! Good things just happen to cost a lot, what can we do ? Make good products & try to make them cheap, and that is a very very difficult task. I would be the happiest person if the Trident had a list of 20 K US in place of 90 K. How that speaker played !!!! Alas......... :{

I put the Trident in the Super League as for the Lumen white was in the lower order along with the fantastic Belgium guy I forget the name of the co at the moment (What a sound!!!) but if I had the money and the room the Trident is a no-barrier!!


Best Regards,

Satyam.