BMC - A new HighEnd Audio Manufacturer from Germany

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goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht
#1 erstellt: 07. Apr 2010, 07:59
Hi Folks,

I want to draw your attention on a new HighEnd Audio manufacturer from Germany.
BMC (Balanced Music Circuit) http://www.bmc-audio.de/en/ has been established in January 2009 and since then has caused furore in the HighEnd Circles over there because of their extremely well designed fully balanced equipment who’s sound quality will be hard to beat at the prices offered by BMC. BMC is a real attack on all established HighEnd Audio Companies.

As of now their product range contains

-CD - Player
-CD - Transport
-DAC with fixed output
-DAC with Preamp
-MC - Phonostage

Other equipment which will be introduced shortly

- Integrated Amplifier
-Current Injection (CI) Stereo Amplifier
-Current Injection (CI) Mono Amplifier
(CI = no need of a Pre Amp in combination with the BMC - DAC)

Unique features which have been invented by the designer Carlos Candeias and which are used in BMC equipment

-Belt Drive (one of the best drives ever made) for CD-Player and CD-Transport
-Superlink via four 75 Ohm digital cables with BNC-connectors for CD-Transport and DAC
-Current Injection Technolgy (CI) for DAC and Amplifiers
-Load Effect Free (LEF) Circuitry
-Lossless Volume Control (DIGM – Digital Intellegent Gain Managemant) via Opto Couplers between the DAC or Phonostage and BMC Power Amp
For further indepth information about Current Injection Technology, Load Effect Free Circuirty and Digital Intelligent Gain Management I will be pleased to give further information. For price enquiries please contact me.

Regards,
Jochen
goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht
#2 erstellt: 07. Apr 2010, 08:06
Just giving the links for in-depth information about the different unique technolgies used:

LEF: http://www.candeias.com/english/lef.htm
CI: http://www.candeias.com/english/current.htm
DIGM: http://www.candeias.com/english/dapc.htm

Jochen


[Beitrag von goolimangala am 07. Apr 2010, 09:48 bearbeitet]
jai1611
Neuling
#3 erstellt: 07. Apr 2010, 08:11
Seems very interesting. Some commonalities with CEC in approach - belt drives and LEF circuits are something they also use.
goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht
#4 erstellt: 07. Apr 2010, 08:23

jai1611 schrieb:
Seems very interesting. Some commonalities with CEC in approach - belt drives and LEF circuits are something they also use.


Correct! Carlos Candeias has also designed all the recent (let's say past 15 years or so) CEC equipment.

Regards,
Jochen


[Beitrag von goolimangala am 07. Apr 2010, 09:16 bearbeitet]
bhagwan69
Inventar
#5 erstellt: 07. Apr 2010, 10:17
Hello !

Nice;

Any idea about the prices ?

Will they be available in India ?

Would love to hear it, I am sure they will be present in Munich - MOC this May - however, I will not be attending the show this year...
goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht
#6 erstellt: 07. Apr 2010, 10:39

bhagwan69 schrieb:
Hello !

Nice;

Any idea about the prices ?

Will they be available in India ?

Would love to hear it, I am sure they will be present in Munich - MOC this May - however, I will not be attending the show this year... :cut


Hi bhagwan,

Yes I will import all BMC equipment on order. I've send you a PM with the prices.
BMC will of course be present on the Munich fair.

Regards,
Jochen
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#7 erstellt: 07. Apr 2010, 11:14
jai1611 said:



Seems very interesting...... Some commonalities with CEC in approach - belt drives and LEF circuits are something they also use.


What they call LEF.... I think is an ESSENTIAL part of (almost?) ALL Audio Solid State Power Amps.

Or am I missing something ??
sivat
Stammgast
#8 erstellt: 07. Apr 2010, 12:52
After a long time, i'm seeing a website (Candeias) that talks sense rather than mumbo-jumbo...

But i do not agree these technologies are unique...probably the 'terms' (LEF, CI, DIGM) are . The approach or particular solution (by Candeias) might be unique...the the problems themselfs are quite known amoung engineering folks..

Amp_Nut,

LEF - i think they are referring to o/p stages on DAC and other equipment on the front end. Most manufacturer do not even talk about it...which is sad, because this is probably one of most important aspect in a DAC and something that we regularly struggle with !!

A similar parameter of a power amp - would be the damping factor..which is slightly different from this.
sivat
Stammgast
#9 erstellt: 07. Apr 2010, 13:02
Instead of reading the link from above, i was reading something else on the website. I'm sorry, LFE means something different in this context

They are talking about power amp!!!

But what is being spoken about LFE is even above just damping factor...this is quite unique. I think the idea is to isolate the power transistors from being directly subject to the load of a speaker. I've not read about this technique before.....however, i 'm not fully convinced it is a better than the traditional approach. We do have to worry about other forms of distortions that additional circuits (assistants as they call it) can induce...but hopefully they are taken care.
sivat
Stammgast
#10 erstellt: 07. Apr 2010, 13:02
well..in tubes we do use the transformers for o/p
goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht
#11 erstellt: 07. Apr 2010, 13:19

Amp_Nut schrieb:

What they call LEF.... I think is an ESSENTIAL part of (almost?) ALL Audio Solid State Power Amps.



I don't think that it's part of all SS Power Amps because as far as I know all these inventions by Carlos Candeias are patented.

Regards,
Jochen
goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht
#12 erstellt: 07. Apr 2010, 13:22

sivat schrieb:

the problems themselfs are quite known amoung engineering folks..



The problems are known, of course. But nobody has found solution like Candeias to address them

Regards,
Jochen
goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht
#13 erstellt: 07. Apr 2010, 14:46
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#14 erstellt: 08. Apr 2010, 08:21
The BMC products look ABSOLUTELY FABULOUS (outside and inside) !

sivat said:


But what is being spoken about LFE is even above just damping factor...this is quite unique. I think the idea is to isolate the power transistors from being directly subject to the load of a speaker. I've not read about this technique before.....however, i 'm not fully convinced it is a better than the traditional approach. We do have to worry about other forms of distortions that additional circuits (assistants as they call it) can induce...but hopefully they are taken care.


Apparently, the Candeias' LFE is not related to the damping factor at all ( which is dependent on the Output stage's output impedance and the overall negative feedback applied) but adding active buffers - "assistants" between the Voltage gain stage and the output stage. ( Not between the Output stage and speakers)

From LEF: http://www.candeias.com/english/lef.htm


LEF means “Load Effect Free". This means: The signal transistor is not loaded by the speaker's current request, because he has strong current handling "assistants" - thus no sound degradation effects due to the load happens.


To me, this practice is as Old as the hills in SS Power amp design, which ALWAYS use active buffers in the form of Emitter followers / Darlington Pair, Darlington Triples or the QUAD Triples... all implemented for more than 25 years, now !

Jochen said:


I don't think that it's part of all SS Power Amps because as far as I know all these inventions by Carlos Candeias are patented.


Jochen - as you say, Candeias' LFE has been granted a patent, and is therefore unique. I have no doubt about this, but the excessive simplification in the explanation, does not provide a clue of how / what Candeias is doing anything different. This may have been driven by commercial interests, but if the circuit is patented, its available in the public domain for study.... Usually circuits are kept under wraps, only when not patented.




well..in tubes we do use the transformers for o/p sivat


That is Exactly why I did not include Tubes in my statement. Most tube amps do Not deploy an active buffer "assistants" between the voltage gain stage and the output stage. Transformer or capacitor coupling draws ALL the juice required by the output stage, from the voltage gain stage.

To use Candeias' language, for Valve Power amps, there are (usually) no "assistants !"


[Beitrag von Amp_Nut am 08. Apr 2010, 08:54 bearbeitet]
sivat
Stammgast
#15 erstellt: 08. Apr 2010, 10:00

Amp_Nut schrieb:


sivat said:


But what is being spoken about LFE is even above just damping factor...this is quite unique. I think the idea is to isolate the power transistors from being directly subject to the load of a speaker. I've not read about this technique before.....however, i 'm not fully convinced it is a better than the traditional approach. We do have to worry about other forms of distortions that additional circuits (assistants as they call it) can induce...but hopefully they are taken care.


Apparently, the Candeias' LFE is not related to the damping factor at all ( which is dependent on the Output stage's output impedance and the overall negative feedback applied) but adding active buffers - "assistants" between the Voltage gain stage and the output stage. ( Not between the Output stage and speakers)



Any difference between the two of our statements
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#16 erstellt: 08. Apr 2010, 11:02
Yup.

From your post I gathered that you said:


I think the idea (by Candeias) is to isolate the power transistors from being directly subject to the load of a speaker.


However, from the LFE link on Candeias' site, it says :


LEF means “Load Effect Free". This means: The signal transistor is not loaded by the speaker's current request, because he has strong current handling "assistants" - thus no sound degradation effects due to the load happens.


The central issue, is WHICH transistor - Signal ie Voltage Gain (usually the 2nd stage) or Load/output (Usually the Last stage) is operated LEF.

... and my post pointed out that in almost all Solid State Power Amplifier designs, ( Not in Most Tube Designs) the Power Transistors are anyways isolated from the Signal (voltage amplification) transistor.... so I was not clear as to what was new / unique to the Candeias design
sivat
Stammgast
#17 erstellt: 08. Apr 2010, 12:03
Sorry..my mistake. I missed the "power" even when re-reading it. Not very patient today.

As already discussed these problems are not new. The attempts to address these issues are not new either....

But the challenge would in designing these "assistants" in a way that will not affect the sound.

I remember Jacob of rethm telling me...about a solid state power amp with a transformer o/p. Do not remember the designer name.....
sivat
Stammgast
#18 erstellt: 09. Apr 2010, 06:48

Amp_Nut schrieb:


The central issue, is WHICH transistor - Signal ie Voltage Gain (usually the 2nd stage) or Load/output (Usually the Last stage) is operated LEF.

... and my post pointed out that in almost all Solid State Power Amplifier designs, ( Not in Most Tube Designs) the Power Transistors are anyways isolated from the Signal (voltage amplification) transistor.... so I was not clear as to what was new / unique to the Candeias design :?


Amp_Nut,

Without the use of active buffers like what you have mentioned, there will be so much distortion, i think it will not be feasible to make commercial products. I assume this will be common knowledge ..even for this organization.

However, the website is not indicating complete details of the alternative technology. But I would assume they have some unique means to achieve this ...primarily without having any tonal signature. It would not be possible for a patent otherwise...

I tried reading a bit more carefully today...

Regards
Siva.


[Beitrag von sivat am 09. Apr 2010, 09:32 bearbeitet]
goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht
#19 erstellt: 09. Apr 2010, 10:48
Just got a better shot of the amp inside. Please note that this is a prototype only. In production all the cableing will be done more neat, I promise.
The big red LEF modules are now also nicely visible.

http://s10.directupload.net/file/d/2124/25twf2g7_jpg.htm

Regards,
Jochen
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#20 erstellt: 09. Apr 2010, 11:03
Thanks ! The product is visually stunning.

The LEF is potted... therefore its circuit probably a secret...
goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht
#21 erstellt: 09. Apr 2010, 11:14

Amp_Nut schrieb:

The LEF is potted... therefore its circuit probably a secret...


It's definetely a secret

Regards,
Jochen
jai1611
Neuling
#22 erstellt: 09. Apr 2010, 13:49
The flagship CEC (AMP6300) seems to use some of the same ideas but in what seems to be a more compromised implementation:

http://www.panolux.com/CEC/6300/AMP6300.htm
http://www.cec-international.de/PAGES/s64.html

Jochen, any idea on pricing on the BMC amps?
goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht
#23 erstellt: 09. Apr 2010, 14:06

jai1611 schrieb:
The flagship CEC (AMP6300) seems to use some of the same ideas but in what seems to be a more compromised implementation:

http://www.panolux.com/CEC/6300/AMP6300.htm
http://www.cec-international.de/PAGES/s64.html

Jochen, any idea on pricing on the BMC amps?


Yes, Carlos Candeias has developed all CEC equipment with his technologies, but CEC is not so consequently designed like BMC probably because it had to fit into certain price categories.
They say the price of the BMC-amp will be around 3000 Euro in Germany which is a steal for such an amp. But it's not a confirmed price yet.

Regards,
Jochen
bombaywalla
Stammgast
#24 erstellt: 13. Apr 2010, 16:27

goolimangala schrieb:
Just got a better shot of the amp inside. Please note that this is a prototype only. In production all the cableing will be done more neat, I promise.
The big red LEF modules are now also nicely visible.

http://s10.directupload.net/file/d/2124/25twf2g7_jpg.htm

Regards,
Jochen



Jochen, thanx for the pix. Can you tell us how big that xformer is? i.e. how many VA? thanx.
bombaywalla
Stammgast
#25 erstellt: 13. Apr 2010, 16:30

sivat schrieb:
After a long time, i'm seeing a website (Candeias) that talks sense rather than mumbo-jumbo...



Agree that the Candeias website does talk about the issues in power amps (I only read the LEF section & not the others) but the whole page on LEF turned me off as he went round & round in circles w/o explaining what he was doing to address the issue. I KNOW that this is Candeias' proprietary circuit & I do NOT want him to disclosure his secret but still there is a way to let people reading his website know what he did to address the issue. Maybe he did in German & the English website is a poor xlation??
goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht
#26 erstellt: 13. Apr 2010, 16:40

bombaywalla schrieb:

goolimangala schrieb:
Just got a better shot of the amp inside. Please note that this is a prototype only. In production all the cableing will be done more neat, I promise.
The big red LEF modules are now also nicely visible.

http://s10.directupload.net/file/d/2124/25twf2g7_jpg.htm

Regards,
Jochen



Jochen, thanx for the pix. Can you tell us how big that xformer is? i.e. how many VA? thanx.


No idea. It's a prototype and no specs are available yet. It will be exhibited for the first time on the Munich fair. Perhaps on this fair some more information will be available.
Regards,
Jochen
goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht
#27 erstellt: 13. Apr 2010, 16:43

bombaywalla schrieb:

sivat schrieb:
After a long time, i'm seeing a website (Candeias) that talks sense rather than mumbo-jumbo...



Agree that the Candeias website does talk about the issues in power amps (I only read the LEF section & not the others) but the whole page on LEF turned me off as he went round & round in circles w/o explaining what he was doing to address the issue. I KNOW that this is Candeias' proprietary circuit & I do NOT want him to disclosure his secret but still there is a way to let people reading his website know what he did to address the issue. Maybe he did in German & the English website is a poor xlation??


Hi bombaywalla,

just contact Candeias directly. Perhaps he will disclose some secrets

Regards,
Jochen
bombaywalla
Stammgast
#28 erstellt: 13. Apr 2010, 17:54

sivat schrieb:
well..in tubes we do use the transformers for o/p


Amp_Nut, Siva,
besides Siva's above statement, several McIntosh s.s. amps use autoformers in their output stage to isolate the power transistors from the speaker load. I believe that several of their yester year s.s amps have met w/ success....
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#29 erstellt: 13. Apr 2010, 20:07
Huh ???

Did I say anything about transformers in this thread ???
bombaywalla
Stammgast
#30 erstellt: 13. Apr 2010, 21:24

Amp_Nut schrieb:
Huh ???

Did I say anything about transformers in this thread ??? :?


I think so - fleeting comment


Amp_Nut schrieb:

That is Exactly why I did not include Tubes in my statement. Most tube amps do Not deploy an active buffer "assistants" between the voltage gain stage and the output stage. Transformer or capacitor coupling draws ALL the juice required by the output stage, from the voltage gain stage.

To use Candeias' language, for Valve Power amps, there are (usually) no "assistants !"



Anyway, my intention was to merely comment that the output transistors in a s.s. amp can be isolated from the (varying) speaker load in a # of ways. Two such ways have been traditionally used: autoformers & some sort of buffer stage in between the gain stage & the (final) output stage.
So, Amp_Nut, I seem to agree with you that this concept is very old & already addressed in s.s. power amps & that Candeias's circuit must be a different/patented approach to solve this known issue.
When I was reading his website - the English xlation is very bad & whatever little could be deciphered is even harder now - I read references to some circuit techniques that gave me some ideas:


The breakthrough of LEF circuit is: The signal transistor does neither pass through its voltage characteristic Vce nor the current characteristic Ic.

Passing the voltage characteristic is avoidable by using floating cascode circuit. This method is known, but causes losses in efficiency and power when using traditional circuitry.

OK, so a transistor will not pass on its characteristics IF it's not used in the signal path. So, these "assistants" must be bias &/or bias compensation only transistors. If you read on further, Candeias seems to ratify this.
Also, the above quote seems to suggest that if you could use "non-traditional" circuitry (such as an innovative circuit that Candeias must have come up with) then you possibly could use cascode circuits & avoid the losses in efficiency. The reason I suggest this is the following quote:

The signal transistor does not pass through his current characteristic Ic. The load, usually the speaker, “sees” only the signal transistor, but no “current assistants”. This is due to the signal transistor’s very low output impedance, combined with the very high output impedance of the “current assistants”.

The current assistants have high output impedance. one way to achieve high output impedance from a bias transistor is to use a cascode configuration.

Anyway, it looks to me that the Candeias website is using the usual marketing as a selling point - nothing wrong with that - and seeming to inform us that the Candeias amp is the only one (or one of the few) that has zero influence from the load/speaker. Candeias seems to have a new solution to an old problem - this is appreciated - but it remains to be seen if his new amp is better than those in the market - a side-side comparison with other zero global NFB amps would have to be done by the listener/group of listeners to see which one they like better & for which reason.


(There are already amplifiers without NFB on the market, but with sound influencing distortions.)

bold statement indeed!! I'd like to know (offline, ofcourse) which zero NFB amps in the market have sound influencing distortions.
And, of course, the Candeias must be equating NFB to global NFB. I'm assuming that he knows that all electronics works with local NFB & that it simply cannot work without local NFB. The local NFB loop can be as small as to influence only a single device OR it can be larger to influence groups of devices or a single stage, etc. Of course, the more # of devices the NFB loop encompasses, the more the NFB loop approaches global NFB.
goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht
#31 erstellt: 14. Apr 2010, 07:22
Here is the link to the data sheet of the CC80 LEF module which is used in the Preamp module of the DAC: http://www.candeias.com/file/CC80-Datasheet.pdf

A photo of the preamp module: http://s10.directupload.net/file/d/2129/yfqk8hsx_jpg.htm

Regards,
Jochen
bombaywalla
Stammgast
#32 erstellt: 14. Apr 2010, 15:36

goolimangala schrieb:
Here is the link to the data sheet of the CC80 LEF module which is used in the Preamp module of the DAC: http://www.candeias.com/file/CC80-Datasheet.pdf

A photo of the preamp module: http://s10.directupload.net/file/d/2129/yfqk8hsx_jpg.htm

Regards,
Jochen


Jochen, thanx for the CC80 "spec" sheet. I realized this earlier but forgot to mention it: Carlos Candeias seems to be using current converyors (which are current mode amplifiers) in his DAC & power amp circuits. This makes the interface to the DAC much more seemless since the DAC is outputting a current already. Plus, current conveyor ckts have known to be wide bandwidth. all the transistors in the circuit are voltage biased separately and only the signal/AC current flows from input to output getting current amplified (rather than the traditional voltage amplification in an opamp).
not many people use this current conveyor in audio ckts so I can see why Carlos Candeias is excited about embarking on this new journey....
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#33 erstellt: 15. Apr 2010, 10:01
bombaywalla said:




Anyway, my intention was to merely comment that the output transistors in a s.s. amp can be isolated from the (varying) speaker load in a # of ways. Two such ways have been traditionally used: autoformers & some sort of buffer stage in between the gain stage & the (final) output stage.



Transformers Do Not isolate... they COUPLE... ie they take power from one circuit and pass it on to the next.


The transformers could be "Interstage Transformers" for eg between the siganl voltage gain stage & the output stage
or
an Output Transformer or auto-transformer between the output stage and the speaker.

The only "Isolation" transformers provide ......is blocking the DC (bias) of 1 stage from going to the next.

Transformers are VERY different from active buffers, that Candeias is referring to.

That brings me bak to my original comment that Valve amps often do not employ active buffers between the signal gain stage and the output stage, where Candeias has deployed his 'assistants'.


[Beitrag von Amp_Nut am 15. Apr 2010, 10:01 bearbeitet]
bombaywalla
Stammgast
#34 erstellt: 15. Apr 2010, 14:53

Amp_Nut schrieb:
bombaywalla said:




Anyway, my intention was to merely comment that the output transistors in a s.s. amp can be isolated from the (varying) speaker load in a # of ways. Two such ways have been traditionally used: autoformers & some sort of buffer stage in between the gain stage & the (final) output stage.



Transformers Do Not isolate... they COUPLE... ie they take power from one circuit and pass it on to the next.


The transformers could be "Interstage Transformers" for eg between the siganl voltage gain stage & the output stage
or
an Output Transformer or auto-transformer between the output stage and the speaker.

The only "Isolation" transformers provide ......is blocking the DC (bias) of 1 stage from going to the next.

Transformers are VERY different from active buffers, that Candeias is referring to.

That brings me bak to my original comment that Valve amps often do not employ active buffers between the signal gain stage and the output stage, where Candeias has deployed his 'assistants'.


Don't get nasty with me, Amp_Nut - I can return the favour in equal measure. I do not like your condescending post.

It is correct to say that xformers & autoformers block the DC. Xformers & Autoformers also isolate the driving circuit from impedance changes of the load (or the following stage). And, that is what I was referring to. Candeias is using a current conveyor circuit to isolate the amp output stage from the speaker's impedance variations.
We are not talking power isolation here - we're talking impedance isolation.
goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht
#35 erstellt: 15. Apr 2010, 15:29

bombaywalla schrieb:

Jochen, thanx for the CC80 "spec" sheet. I realized this earlier but forgot to mention it: Carlos Candeias seems to be using current converyors (which are current mode amplifiers) in his DAC & power amp circuits. This makes the interface to the DAC much more seemless since the DAC is outputting a current already. Plus, current conveyor ckts have known to be wide bandwidth. all the transistors in the circuit are voltage biased separately and only the signal/AC current flows from input to output getting current amplified (rather than the traditional voltage amplification in an opamp).
not many people use this current conveyor in audio ckts so I can see why Carlos Candeias is excited about embarking on this new journey....


Whatever it is, Candeias' ckts seem to be really innovative. The first time that I came to know about BMC and that CC is involved was on a German forum made by professionals for professionals (designer engineers, journalists, distributors, dealers etc.) and other audiophiles as well. Most prominent members, who would perhaps be known by the members of the HiFi forum also, is the designer of the ASR "Emitter" amp (who has started that forum which is called open-end-music-professional) and Chris Feikert of "Dr. Feikert Analogue". And whoever wrote something about BMC is only raving about this equipment, it's technology and sonic performance. And after I was able to audition the BMC transport and dac myself, I can only agree with these guys from the forum that this is something very special and a real gift to the audiophile's world.

Regards,
Jochen
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#36 erstellt: 16. Apr 2010, 04:46


Don't get nasty with me, Amp_Nut - I can return the favour in equal measure. I do not like your condescending post.


Wow Bombaywalla ! Thats a New low from you... an Outright threat to be nasty is you are contradicted, though you prefer to contradict one and all, apparently just for the sake of contradicting, in practically All your posts on this forum...

Then you make a statement, which I believe is again incorrect :

bobbaywallla said :


Xformers & Autoformers also isolate the driving circuit from impedance changes of the load (or the following stage). And, that is what I was referring to.



As an Engineer, you will have been taught that Impedance on Any winding of the transformer / autotransformer are immediately and accurately reflected on the other winding.

Impedance changes are Not Isolated... they are in fact COMMUNICATED !

Transformers do not isolate, they are coupling devices...

On looking back at this post, I am surprised how you dragged me into your contrived postings regarding transformers, when I was referring to transistors and ACTIVE buffers, which is what the Candeias amp is doing. Transformers are irrelevant to this topic, as i see it.

Given your aggressive mood, I will not revisit this thread again, nor respond to Any of your posts on Any Other thread. You are free to pontificate "truth" as you see it, without fear of contradiction from me, henceforth
bombaywalla
Stammgast
#37 erstellt: 16. Apr 2010, 06:53

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Wow Bombaywalla ! Thats a New low from you... an Outright threat to be nasty is you are contradicted, though you prefer to contradict one and all, apparently just for the sake of contradicting, in practically All your posts on this forum...

Amp_Nut, I do not mind being contradicted (as has been done several times before) & am usually open to discussion. if I'm wrong, I'll happily write that I stand corrected.
But your condescending post rubbed me the wrong way - I did not need you to play teacher.

And, FYI, I was NOT trying to drag you into any transformer discussion thru any contrived posts. I clearly mentioned that you made a "fleeting comment" to transformers.
goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht
#38 erstellt: 16. Apr 2010, 07:09
I am sad to see that my thread has caused a fight between two esteemed members of this forum.
Like I was trying to hint at with my previous post there have never been such fights and/or misunderstandings about Candeias' technology on the German forum among the experts over there.
Perhaps it's really because of poor translation of a German text into English that there are doubts and misconceptions about this technology. Though I find that the english used on both websites (BMC and Candeias) is not so bad.
Therefore I want to really recommend that you guys contact Carlos Candeias and get his technology explained by him before you continue fighting here. Candeias' eMail-ID and phone number is known to me. Please PM me if you want to get it.

Regards,
Jochen
bombaywalla
Stammgast
#39 erstellt: 16. Apr 2010, 07:42

Amp_Nut schrieb:


As an Engineer, you will have been taught that Impedance on Any winding of the transformer / autotransformer are immediately and accurately reflected on the other winding.

Amp_Nut, w/o honestly trying to be argumentative, I believe that you might want to brush up on transformers. What you have written above is precisely wrong. Here's a cut & paste from Wikipedia:

Audio transformers:
.........
A particularly critical component is the output transformer of an audio power amplifier. Valve circuits for quality reproduction have long been produced with no other (inter-stage) audio transformers, but an output transformer is needed to couple the relatively high impedance (up to a few hundred ohms depending upon configuration) of the output valve(s) to the low impedance of a loudspeaker. (The valves can deliver a low current at a high voltage; the speakers require high current at low voltage.) Most solid-state power amplifiers need no output transformer at all.
................
Early transistor audio power amplifiers often had output transformers, but they were eliminated as designers discovered how to design amplifiers without them.


You will see the word "couple" above & before you jump on me thinking I'm an idiot for not reading your previous post here is the definition of "couple" from Wikipedia:

Coupling is also the transfer of power from one circuit segment to another, e.g., an alternating voltage may be transferred to a segment at a different direct voltage by use of a capacitor or transformer; power may be efficiently transferred to a segment with different impedance by use of a transformer


here's a link to the full article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer_types#Audio_transformers
please read.


Amp_Nut schrieb:

Impedance changes are Not Isolated... they are in fact COMMUNICATED !

Hmmmmm...........
If you use a transformer between speaker & amp & the speaker impedance wiggles, will this wiggle be communicated back to the amplifier thru the transformer???



Amp_Nut schrieb:

Transformers do not isolate, they are coupling devices...

If you are talking AC power from input to output, you are absolutely correct.
And, I agreed with you on this account.


Anyway, Candeias proprietary circuit CC80 is a discrete version of a current conveyor (also known as a current amplifier) circuit that is usually available in the marketplace in an IC form. I can see why he used a discrete version of this circuit - it's very likely that an IC form of a CC would not be able to handle to amp's output power. What the CC80 circuit does is provide good impedance matching between the varying speaker load & the amplifier output stage.
You can also do this using a transformer - an autoformer to be precise - as McIntosh has showed us for the last 30+ yrs.
Herein lies the connection between transformers & the Candeias CC80 circuit - optimizing the impedance matching.
Hopefully, it's clearer now where I was coming from.....
bombaywalla
Stammgast
#40 erstellt: 16. Apr 2010, 07:47

goolimangala schrieb:
I am sad to see that my thread has caused a fight between two esteemed members of this forum.

Regards,
Jochen


Apologies for the fight - it seems that Amp_Nut & I have rubbed each other the wrong way. Hopefully, Amp_Nut is not as heated as purports to be (& I am also doing the same) & that he'll go offline, fume & be back sooner than later. One can hope.....
Discussions with him are good & enlightening but we sometimes have differences - to be expected in discussions.

I'll email you offline for Candeias' email address. Thanx for the offer.
bombaywalla
Stammgast
#41 erstellt: 19. Apr 2010, 21:48
FWIW, thanx to goolimangala, I've emailed Carlos Candeias a few questions re. his LEF implementation in this BMC 200W/ch amp. I've very clearly stated in my email that I do not want to know any of his trade secrets pertaining to the implementation & that I was seeking clarification over & above his website info for my better understanding. I'll post any details that he shares with me (w/ his permission, of course).
Let's see if he replies (no reply so far)........
goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht
#42 erstellt: 23. Apr 2010, 12:49
Here another inside view of the upcoming amp:

http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/2138/ek5xgeeq_png.htm

Really nicely built

Jochen
goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht
#43 erstellt: 23. Apr 2010, 13:54
And here is a picture of the mono amplifier:

http://s10.directupload.net/file/d/2138/6yfvxpl6_png.htm

Regards,
Jochen
goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht
#44 erstellt: 30. Apr 2010, 05:42
some basic specs of the amps are now available:

Integrated & Stereo Amplifier

2 x 200 Watt @ 8 ohm ; 2 x 350 watt @ 4 Ohm
Power Supply: 2000 watts
Weight: 40 kgs


Mono Amplifier
200 Watt @ 8 ohm ; 350 watt @ 4 Ohm
Transformer: 2000 watts
Weight: 40 kgs


Regards,
Jochen
bhagwan69
Inventar
#45 erstellt: 08. Mai 2010, 14:53
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8928/bmcampmoc.jpg

@ German Show - I think...

<script src='http://img694.imageshack.us/shareable/?i=bmcampmoc.jpg&p=tl' type='text/javascript'></script><noscript>http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8928/bmcampmoc.jpg</noscript>


[Beitrag von bhagwan69 am 08. Mai 2010, 14:55 bearbeitet]
Savyasaachi
Inventar
#46 erstellt: 19. Mai 2010, 07:09
That DAC looks scrumptuous..would love to hear that.
bombaywalla
Stammgast
#47 erstellt: 20. Mai 2010, 00:38

Savyasaachi schrieb:
That DAC looks scrumptuous..would love to hear that. :)


Savya, you might have posted this comment in the wrong thread perhaps??
Bhagwan69 posted pix of the BMC amplifier & not a DAC.
Savyasaachi
Inventar
#48 erstellt: 20. Mai 2010, 01:27
yeah..the amp looks quite amazing too..but i saw a pic of their DAC as well..just looks fabulous..oh btw, picked up a Bel Canto DAC 2. once agian..want to try it against my reference DAC and see what's what..i know I will end up selling the Bel Canto knowing how it sounds since i had Abhi's previously for a bit.
bombaywalla
Stammgast
#49 erstellt: 20. Mai 2010, 14:37

Savyasaachi schrieb:
yeah..the amp looks quite amazing too..but i saw a pic of their DAC as well..just looks fabulous..oh btw, picked up a Bel Canto DAC 2. once agian..want to try it against my reference DAC and see what's what..i know I will end up selling the Bel Canto knowing how it sounds since i had Abhi's previously for a bit.


So is this a mindless exercise to make yourself feel good esp. when you have pre-judged the results??
Savyasaachi
Inventar
#50 erstellt: 20. Mai 2010, 19:11
I didn't give the Bel Canto a fair chance when i last had it....and yeah, kinda to feel good as well to see my DAC kill the DAC2.
Savyasaachi
Inventar
#51 erstellt: 20. Mai 2010, 22:23
I am actually on the lookout for an Assemblage DAC 3.0, 3.1 or a Sonic Frontiers SFD-MK2. Mainly cause I am thinking of going for a balanced setup here.

Of course I might just end up building a Buffalo 2 as those DACs i listed above are rare as they come.
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