Wharfedale Diamonds

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Alymangy
Ist häufiger hier
#1 erstellt: 24. Jan 2005, 07:12
Had a chance to audition the Wharfedale Diamonds over the weekend and I must say I was impressed. Specially since they seem to beat some much priced speakers hollow.

However, I am not so sure on the build quality. Any owners of Wharfedales who can vouch for their build quality?

Also 8.3 vs 8.4 which one is better??
hifigeek
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#2 erstellt: 24. Jan 2005, 12:25
I own a pair of diamond 8.4's.They are very good allrounders.It is very difficult to find better floorstanders at this pricepoint. Very good mids and airy highs. Good attack and decay with demanding Jazz material. Only drawback is the lack of tightness in the bass. But this can be expected at this price point.You need heavily braced cabinets to solve this problem but you cannot expect that level of construction quality at this price point. I reccomend this speaker if you are looking for a good alrounder at this pricepoint. If you are a classical or Jazz fanatic you could go for better quality Bookshelf speakers for the same money.Some names that comes to mind are Quad 12L, Dynaudio audience42 etc...
Manek
Inventar
#3 erstellt: 24. Jan 2005, 12:30
I am pretty partial towards 2 driver, two way systems but I somehow preferred the 8.4 to the 8.3 at the time I auditioned them. What kind of music do you listen to ?

manek.
joy_in_hifi
Ist häufiger hier
#4 erstellt: 24. Jan 2005, 12:33
When I was reviewing the Wharfedales couple of months back, the dealer recommended the 8.3 over the 8.4 since I was planning for a pure stereo setup with a 50W per channel integrated amp. You could go for the 8.4, if you have a high power A/V Receiver or Intergrated amp.

I suggest that you review the Diamond 9 series before deciding. The new Diamonds are more expensive but the quality is apparently even better. Sadly the Blore dealer still does not have it.

Quality wise I think the speakers are fine. Most of the common speakers brands make their speakers in China or Malaysia with the exception of the Danish speaker brands and B&W.

Cheers
Joy
abhi.pani
Inventar
#5 erstellt: 24. Jan 2005, 13:11
That leads to my question. For the last few weeks I have been auditioning speakers (Floorstanders only). Since my budget is not very high (20k to 30k) so I am also looking at Indian speakers like Sonodyne, Torvin and Acoustics Portrait (Local in Bangalore). First of all, all these Indian speaker dealers are always in a mood to heavily underrate their competitors (both Indian and Imported speaker companies). All of them claim that except their products rest all companies get their components from china ( mainly drivers) to build their entry level products and sell at 4 times their Cost price. The Acoustics Portrait guy even said that KEF, Missions, Jamo, Sonodyne all get their entry level products build from cheap chinese products. He mainly abused Sonodyne like anything. He also compared his products to be in line with Cadence and at half the price.
I was so confused but I want to know from you people how much of these are true and what is the problem if some products are not from Europe but from China or Malaysia ? Should I really be so careful ??
Alymangy
Ist häufiger hier
#6 erstellt: 24. Jan 2005, 13:29

I am pretty partial towards 2 driver, two way systems but I somehow preferred the 8.4 to the 8.3 at the time I auditioned them. What kind of music do you listen to ?

manek.


I tried out both the speakers for sometime. The dealer told me that 8.3 is a very good stereo speaker. But even with CD direct mode on a Denon 1604(AVR) the 8.4s seemed to have better detailing and better bass. But thats my opinion.

Used "Best of Lobo", some Indian/Western classical especially percussion and high frequency :-) choir vocals from "Sister Act-OST" to try out the speakers.
Krish
Stammgast
#7 erstellt: 25. Jan 2005, 05:12
Abhi.Pani,
Do not go by what the dealers have to say.Of course they are going to disparage competition.A lot of stuff in being made in China today, including some hi-end HiFi products.

For that matter who would have ever thought that Indian Brands could make a foray into the exclusive world of High end HiFi.But then you have brands like Cadence and Rethm doing just that.

Here is what I'd suggest.
-Take your time don't be in a hurry.
-Trust your own ears, for there is no better way to judge a music system.
- The music you listen to.Not all speakers are designed to reproduce all kinds of music equally well.F'rinstance if your tastes are hard rock or techno then the JBLs would not be a bad bet.
- 30K is not small change.You will get a good pair of speakers for that much.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
Krishnan
Manek
Inventar
#8 erstellt: 25. Jan 2005, 05:41
Abhi.Pani,

this is what I have experienced with most delaers and speaker manufacturers of Indian origin. They think they can only sell products by undermining others ! Little do they realise that they in turn ask for trouble as their competitiors do the same with them.

yes, I have also been told by the corrson person that their speakers also compare with Cadence and are maybe better. I do find that hard to believe though I have not heard corrson yet If he is comparing his products to cadence at half the price then I guess he has fallen into his own trap as the components corrson uses are not as highly regarded as what cadence uses for example the eton mid/bass driver, wbt terminals, wood/concrete composite cabinets, internal vdh wiring, the list goes on etc etc etc. The entry level products corrson makes has vifa drivers made in china which I was told by corrson. If they were so bad why do they make/use them ?

BTW what did you think of the corrson product ?

Kef, mission, jamo make some of their speakers in china but then the world makes their products in china, does that make it bad ? gone are the days when chinese stuff was cheap and lacked quality. Today china also makes high quality products.

The entire quad range is made in china....and why are they so highly regarded in the world today if it was cheap stuff ? This is just sales talk.

Manek.
Prithvi
Stammgast
#9 erstellt: 25. Jan 2005, 06:19
Hi!
This is a piece of advice to all you guys out there. Pls dont make or pass comments on any product under the sun weather indian or imported without having seen or heard them.:L

It is in bad taste to do so. Even with my 15 years of experiene in this field, there are still so many systems that I have not heard till date. Every new system I hear I learn so much.

As Manek says leave it to your ears(they are the best judge), forget where the hell it is made. You like it, buy it. You dont like it then find something you like. Period.

Rgs

Prithvi
Manek
Inventar
#10 erstellt: 25. Jan 2005, 06:34
In todays day and age , a "made in china" label may not necessarily be a bad thing. This is what people need to get over. In the earlier days this china bias had some basis, not anymore.

Manek.
Arj
Inventar
#11 erstellt: 25. Jan 2005, 08:01
What Manek has said above is especially true in Audio

names like Shanling, Xindak, Opera/Consonence, Swan, Usher etc have already made a mark in Western Audio Shows. These are all designed, manufactured And owned by Chin/Taiwan cos

Arcam, Rotel, NAD, Marantz,Vincent, Quad, Mission, Red Rose ALL have china OEMS

Among the INdian cos Cadence sure is Audiophile not sure the rest really come into Audiophile category ..which by itself is pretty subjective

But in the end you should feel comforatble with the speaker and the sound..LIke suggested, the first 15 min is notthe best time for evaluation. you need to have a selection of discs wihch you normally listen to and need to spend at least an hour listening to all ..unless you are comfortable with it and can listen to it for extended periods for time without any fatigue, you are better of with one of the mass market products like Sony/panasonic as that would be money better spent .
Manek
Inventar
#12 erstellt: 25. Jan 2005, 08:58
Yep, spending an hour is important as ARJ says and to my mind spending an hour two times with a 3-4 day gap in between with your own music is critical. You may be swayed by the new sound the first time round so go back and hear the same setup again to confirm your findings.

I'm sure the dealers would not mind at all...but if he does..find another one ! You got to be sure. Your ears "may" play tricks on you the first time round but the second time round you will know for sure whether you want those speakers or not.

Manek.
abhi.pani
Inventar
#13 erstellt: 25. Jan 2005, 09:37
Hi Manek,
Thanks a lot for your opinion. Actually you people have reduced a lot of my hiccups concerning chinese factor.
As far as Acoustics Portrait is concerned, their top of the line series (Monitor series they call it) is has something to look for. It is much better than all of their series downunder. But they quote it at 40k (that sounded too pricey) saying that they will sell it at 50k once they are established. Anyway they also offer the same kit at 30k and ask us to assemble ourselves , that means they can very easily give it at a way below prices than they actually quote. Moreover they don't have any other overheads like the big companies. The product is good but I have to audition it once more with a better amp. Last time they used a flat amp (no bass, no treble controls) which is their product once again. But I want to listen to it with a seasoned 2 channel amp with proper bass and treble controls and also ask for a big bargain if they have to sell it to me. Frankly, its simple, they find that all the comapnies sell their products at 2-3 times of their manufacturing price and people buy them if they like it so they are also employing the same strategy by elevating the price so that their product also will be acclaimed as a top order entry level speaker and they will offer some discounts on top of that to attract customers and then their evergreen strategy to underrate their competitors like anything is always there . But they don't realise that its very difficult to sell local products at international prices just by using tricky words and comparisions. Anyway if I somehow shortlist acoustics portrait finally, they have to give me a very good deal . Moreover the top of the line speaker the MS-301 model uses 2 6.5" Vifa mid bass drivers and one Vifa ferro fluid cooled dome tweeter. Its a 2 way system and has got a good amount of juice in it. The buid quality is solid. I think anyone looking for entry level Towers should take a look at it before making a decission and ofcourse BARGAIN A LOT
SUB_BOSS
Gesperrt
#14 erstellt: 25. Jan 2005, 10:20
ABHI PANI YOU HAVE HIT THE BULLS EYE...YES BARGAIN A LOT..YOU DON'T GET DISCOUNT NO PROBS.MAKE A DEALER FEEL THAT YOU ARE BUYING AFTER LOTSA CONVINCING FROM HIM YOU'LL GET A BETTER DEAL.
Prithvi
Stammgast
#15 erstellt: 25. Jan 2005, 10:59
Hi!
Regarding so many hi-end companies going to china for manufacturing is to bring down costs which are outrageous in UK & USA.

Really wish they all start coming down to India instead of China, imagine what fun, we can get to see, hear, feel etc these beauties.

The new Prima Luna tube amp is getting rave reviews and yes it has been made in China but as per designs by a dutch guy. So you see India can also do the same, if only the damn government would open things up and allow international audio companies to open up..

I forsee a day when we will have most of the companies setting up their own facilities in India, that day is not far.

Rgds

Prithvi
acop
Neuling
#16 erstellt: 25. Jan 2005, 12:24
First our apologies for intervening in a consumer/audiophile discussion. Based on information that we got from some of our well wishers - we happend to visit the site today afternoon; We are completely shocked at the information, which we feel is due to mis-understanding.

We recollect Mr. Abhi-phai - came to our demo room last Friday. Nr. Abhi spent over 1.5 hour in our showroom listening to our products via Arcam FMJ CD23 CD player, Musical Fidelity A3Cr power amp with a DIY Version of a very popular preamp, based on 12AX7, Dact Attenuator and Jensen Aluminium Foil caps (Readers of our news letter might be aware). Also he heard HT via Denon 3801 A/V receiver.

We thank Mr. Abhi for giving good remarks about us, at the same time we think some mis-understanding has been bloated and projected us a just another "dealer" trying to force-sell our products. We apologize to Mr. Abhi incase we had accidentally offended him.

Here are some clarification;
1) We told Mr. Abhi that "MS-301" comes close to the performance of the Cadence Entry level floor stander. But they are voiced differently and the choice is based on personal taste. However, we did mention that on price-to-performance ration, our products would have an edge. At any point in time - we did not specifiy that Cadence speakers are bad, and we do very much respect Cadence for what they have contributed to the Indian audiophile industry.

2) We do NOT like to say other products made in China are bad. However, we would like to explain our business model to customers on few occasions. The rational being -> "Bill-Of-Material" Vs. "Cost-to-Customer" of a particular product. Established brands requires much larger overheard & margins to cover thier org, sales & marketing cost, higher labour cost plus the margins for distributors and dealers.

The margin & overheards totally can contribute to about 60-80% of the product's actual "cost to customer". This makes them very expensive and this is the very basic reason why DIY is fledging abroad.

In India, due to high customs and lack of local high-grade speakers, the Indian audiophiles were long deprived of good speakers and other audio components. Hence our business model was to deliver speakers at almost "Bill-Of-Material" cost; A speaker from an established brand selling for 40K in India will use much cheaper chinese drivers that cannot really match up to VIFA Drivers; hence our speakers will be better than entry & mid level models from many established models (Before you can ask - read on to learn more about quality of other components/cabinets used in products).


3) While Corrson kits come at bill of material cost, the Acoustic Portrait ranges involves
matched drivers/crossover-components. The manufacturing process is very time-consuming & lots of engineering labour is required. This cost of this manufacturing process is very expensive to be ignored. A few components used in the AP range are of higher grade compared to the Corrson kits. These are some reasons why AP products are more expensive.

4)Its not fair to say only Cadence speakers uses high-quality components in India, without seeing or hearing our products. We do use the best possible components. For example, the VIFA D25AG0506 tweeters used by Cadence is much cheaper than the D25AG3506 used in our MS-301 models. We do have our own propritary method of dampening our cabinets; Similarly certain components used by Cadence are more expensive than what we use.

Please reserve all your comments until you have seem or heard our products. This is a humble request from us.

We do not wish to offend any of our competitors by projecting thier product as bad. We are only saying that we provide better price-to-performance ratio - due to our unique business model in India.

For sake of the integrity of this forum, We will not be visiting or responding to mails in this forum; So incase you have any queries, please communicate to us via e-mail.

- Corrson
25/1/2005
CAP05112
Alymangy
Ist häufiger hier
#17 erstellt: 25. Jan 2005, 12:58
WOW!!!

And can you believe that I started this thread to ask about Wharfedale diamond's build quality.

abhi.pani
Inventar
#18 erstellt: 25. Jan 2005, 13:25
Guys, now this Forum goes public ....is it unsafe What is this going on ??? . Should I
Manek
Inventar
#19 erstellt: 25. Jan 2005, 13:33
Alymangy, I'm not surprised one bit...threads, like conversations, take their turns and one ends up discussing topics quite different from what you started out with
Manek.
roshan
Ist häufiger hier
#20 erstellt: 25. Jan 2005, 13:40
JAIL MEIN SURANG!!!!

There is a mole in our midst!!!!

Roshan.
Manek
Inventar
#21 erstellt: 25. Jan 2005, 15:03
Roshan.....you definately are Sherlock Holmes ! How did you know ?
joy_in_hifi
Ist häufiger hier
#22 erstellt: 25. Jan 2005, 17:28
I think its a good sign that the companies are taking their time to respond & review our comments. This is the only way that our local brands can improve. Quality of service and response time is very critical to be competitive.

IMHO amongst the local brands which I am familiar with Sonodyne makes good speakers but have priced themselves as high as the international brands instead of passing on the price benefit to the consumer.

Cheers
Joy
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