What can we do to make the dubious dealers accountable?

To set the ball rolling, here is a dealer who claims to be an authorized dealer for everyting on the earth. Can we demand the information I have suggested in the main post?

http://www.hifivisio...phase-bangalore.html

You find the adresses of the dealers in this Forum in their "details"... just click on the Name!

Every Dealer her, who has a Online Shop has a link to this, would be a bad idea to leave this chance...

In Germany you have to have a "Impressum" and the "AGBs"
There you find all Data you need.

If you're too scary of trading online, check your local dealer - would be the best idea!

Greetings from here

Can I invite people like Arj and Amp_Nut to sign up for the campaign

Nope. Not me, because ... as you say :

Let us discuss about what we can do to fight the dubious dealers.

The dealers may also want to

' Let us discuss about what we can do to fight the dubious CUSTOMERS ( those who have not bought anything but claim vaguely to have, and received shoddy after sales service, so that they can muddy the water ).'

I am OUT of this.

I am looking forward to an enjoyable weekend, and after...



P.S:
I guess I am only doing what I have said in my sign off line :

Experience runs a tough school, and the stupid will learn only after entrance. Benjamin Franklin

I dont want to be Stupid, AGAIN

If you want to know, if a dealer is authorized to sell products from a special brand, you wont get the authorization from the dealer.. ask the Brand!

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Nope. Not me, because ... as you say :

I knew you would chicken out and escape like last time. You met expectations.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

The dealers may also want to ' Let us discuss about what we can do to fight the dubious CUSTOMERS ( those who have not bought anything but claim vaguely to have, and received shoddy after sales service, so that they can muddy the water ).'

That's upto the dealers to choose if they want a list of customers. What I have mentioned are the information all authentic (not dubious) dealers should openly share.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

I am OUT of this.

You don't have a choice I guess after the face saving exit the last time. One bitten twice shy. Intelligent decision.

derboxenmann schrieb:

If you want to know, if a dealer is authorized to sell products from a special brand, you wont get the authorization from the dealer.. ask the Brand!

What about the rest of the details like the after sales support, etc?

This thread IMHO is on the right vein and actually useful. something we can make as a FAQ on what to expect and what to demand when we make a purchase. (very specific to audio..but general pribciples can be applied to anything!)

And believe me the outlook/Outcome with this matureoutlook could actually be productive rather than counterproductive like the other one. It is not what we do but HOW we do it that matters.

to me when I go to a dealer

A. What I can expect from him/them

1. Fair Price (Who decides it..? I do based of points in B. below)
2. Time and effort to understand what I want and to demo it to me
3. Clear understanding of Warranty/Implications.
if he does not have a service center I want an assurance from him on alternatives and as to how he will take care of something in case of a problem. this should be something admissable in a consumer court if I choose to. THis is very important for me
4.Clear invoice with all Sales tax etc etc. (If you dont ask that to reduce the price..do it at your own risk, but dont cry later)


B. What I will definitely do as my due diligence

1. Have an idea of the selling price internationally
2. Check out on failure rate (From AA or any forum)
3. Find out any company warranty/terms etc and check out who the authorised dealer is from the website
4. Check out the price in case I were to buy it used/new from Audiogon/ebay along with any duty etc etc. or cost at Singapore or HK. and the grey market price

based on the above..there is no clear rule but i guess the cost/benefit and risk would be very clear to me to decide.

I have been interacting with a lot of dealer in Singapore and here in paris.. expecting something on the lines of spares, etc for slow and very slow moving goods to me does not make sense..


I do not care about anything else. In fact If I were buying something like a Krell or a Wadia in India I would not even realistically expect for him to have a "trained expert" as with 1 or two pieces in a year I do not expect him to have any practical experience realisticallY sopeaking in reapiring !

But Yes I will very clearly want to know as to who will bear the cost of transport to an authorised service center !

regarding showroom, to me it honestly does not matter.. but i guess different people have different expectations hence it is very personal

In the end the Price is something based on value. If I get a better value elsewhere i will go there to buy it ! and If I do not get warranty i will prefer buying it off the net unless i get a price which i feel is worth that risk.. the decision will always be mine!

This way if I am ever cheated.. i know I can bring down the law..

might have missed some points above and if anyone can add on it shold be good

Arj schrieb:

This thread IMHO is on the right vein and actually useful. something we can make as a FAQ on what to expect and what to demand when we make a purchase. (very specific to audio..but general pribciples can be applied to anything!) And believe me the outlook/Outcome with this matureoutlook could actually be productive rather than counterproductive like the other one. It is not what we do but HOW we do it that matters. to me when I go to a dealer A. What I can expect from him/them 1. Fair Price (Who decides it..? I do based of points in B. below) 2. Time and effort to understand what I want and to demo it to me 3. Clear understanding of Warranty/Implications. if he does not have a service center I want an assurance from him on alternatives and as to how he will take care of something in case of a problem. this should be something admissable in a consumer court if I choose to. THis is very important for me 4.Clear invoice with all Sales tax etc etc. (If you dont ask that to reduce the price..do it at your own risk, but dont cry later) B. What I will definitely do as my due diligence 1. Have an idea of the selling price internationally 2. Check out on failure rate (From AA or any forum) 3. Find out any company warranty/terms etc and check out who the authorised dealer is from the website 4. Check out the price in case I were to buy it used/new from Audiogon/ebay along with any duty etc etc. or cost at Singapore or HK. and the grey market price based on the above..there is no clear rule but i guess the cost/benefit and risk would be very clear to me to decide. I have been interacting with a lot of dealer in Singapore and here in paris.. expecting something on the lines of spares, etc for slow and very slow moving goods to me does not make sense.. I do not care about anything else. In fact If I were buying something like a Krell or a Wadia in India I would not even realistically expect for him to have a "trained expert" as with 1 or two pieces in a year I do not expect him to have any practical experience realisticallY sopeaking in reapiring ! But Yes I will very clearly want to know as to who will bear the cost of transport to an authorised service center ! regarding showroom, to me it honestly does not matter.. but i guess different people have different expectations hence it is very personal In the end the Price is something based on value. If I get a better value elsewhere i will go there to buy it ! and If I do not get warranty i will prefer buying it off the net unless i get a price which i feel is worth that risk.. the decision will always be mine! This way if I am ever cheated.. i know I can bring down the law.. might have missed some points above and if anyone can add on it shold be good :)

So, can we start asking for such information from the dealers who are members of this forum? If such information can be asked as rightful information by individual cuatomers from a dealer, why can't they be shared by the dealer in this forum?

In fact If I were buying something like a Krell or a Wadia in India I would not even realistically expect for him to have a "trained expert" as with 1 or two pieces in a year I do not expect him to have any practical experience realisticallY sopeaking in reapiring !

Makes sense.

regarding showroom, to me it honestly does not matter.. but i guess different people have different expectations hence it is very personal

IMO it matters...infact a lot. It gives a different kind of confidence and satisfaction, something that we normally get when we buy a branded product.

Here in Germany we do not have too much problems...

as aDealer yo HAVE TO:

...give warranty (at least 6Months)
...give payback-guarantee (if you send it back in the next 14days / only on Online-Shops)

If you want best technical support help your REAL DEALER, don't buy on the internet, only because of the price... the real dealers will exstinct, so you wont have any help in the future from real pros...


so the problems, you seem to have aren't so big in germany - you only have problems with small shops, which disappear in the near future, like e*ay-shops and such things.
So don't buy on e*ay - have a contact to the dealer, phone him or talk to him personally.
I, for example, do the service via ICQ, if you want - this ist up-to-date, i think - and i don't have another option by now, because it's just an onlineshop... it will change in the near future, but by now, i can't offer service in a shop.

abhi.pani schrieb:

Makes sense.

In that case, I would expcet the dealer to bear the shipping expenses everytime the product has to be shipped, even after warranty.

derboxenmann schrieb:

Here in Germany we do not have too much problems... as aDealer yo HAVE TO: ...give warranty (at least 6Months) ...give payback-guarantee (if you send it back in the next 14days / only on Online-Shops) If you want best technical support help your REAL DEALER, don't buy on the internet, only because of the price... the real dealers will exstinct, so you wont have any help in the future from real pros... so the problems, you seem to have aren't so big in germany - you only have problems with small shops, which disappear in the near future, like e*ay-shops and such things. So don't buy on e*ay - have a contact to the dealer, phone him or talk to him personally. I, for example, do the service via ICQ, if you want - this ist up-to-date, i think - and i don't have another option by now, because it's just an onlineshop... it will change in the near future, but by now, i can't offer service in a shop.

We do not get any support from the dealers here. We don't
even get to audition the products at home, forget about 14-day moneyback.

As an example, see this link http://www.hifivisio...phase-bangalore.html

This dealer does not even have a showroom or a service center but claims to be a dealer for all the products listed. But the dealer charges the same price for the products as in US and Europe. There is absolutely nil after sales and warranty support. Do you consider such shops as small shops which disappear in no time in Germany?

Dare_Devil schrieb:

abhi.pani schrieb: Makes sense. In that case, I would expcet the dealer to bear the shipping expenses everytime the product has to be shipped, even after warranty.

Makes sense...

yes And if he does not agree.. i want a benefit in the Price ! else i do not want to buy it.

Arj schrieb:

yes And if he does not agree.. i want a benefit in the Price ! else i do not want to buy it.

Approximately how much?

there's no need for the shop to have a showroom or a service-center...
i don't have that either.

In fact the dealer has to pay all the shipping cost to the repair service if there's anything with the warranty

Example:

you by a product from me in Germany, which i get from NewZealand...
If there's anything wrong in the first 6months, and i have to send it to NZ, it's my problem, if i can't pay the shipping...
You only have to bring it to me!

In Germany you have another kind of warranty, too... after the 6months the product dies because of bad construction... you have to proof it wasn't your fault und you will get the product repaired...

In fact you have 24month warranty in Germany, in the first 6months, i have to proof, that it was your fault, if i don't want to repair it...
in the last 18months you have to proof it was bad construction!

derboxenmann schrieb:

there's no need for the shop to have a showroom or a service-center... i don't have that either. In fact the dealer has to pay all the shipping cost to the repair service if there's anything with the warranty Example: you by a product from me in Germany, which i get from NewZealand... If there's anything wrong in the first 6months, and i have to send it to NZ, it's my problem, if i can't pay the shipping... You only have to bring it to me! In Germany you have another kind of warranty, too... after the 6months the product dies because of bad construction... you have to proof it wasn't your fault und you will get the product repaired... In fact you have 24month warranty in Germany, in the first 6months, i have to proof, that it was your fault, if i don't want to repair it... in the last 18months you have to proof it was bad construction!

Even such things are not spelt out here. As I said before, there is no after sales service at all that is explicitly called out to the customers.

we have rules in germany for things like that.. in fact we have rules here for everything...
it's very often very stupid...

but for many things, it's just a good idea to have them.
If you don't have any after-service, it's a hard thing to check out who's good and who's bad.

Dare_Devil schrieb:

Arj schrieb: yes And if he does not agree.. i want a benefit in the Price ! else i do not want to buy it. Approximately how much?

i would begin with assuming it gets shipped twice during the warranty period..hence work it out.

It is a very much personal thing like insurance..what matters is how you bargain and how interested you are in owning it.. very similiar to what you would do for a refridgerator or a washing machine..of course options are much more there

derboxenmann schrieb:

we have rules in germany for things like that.. in fact we have rules here for everything... it's very often very stupid... but for many things, it's just a good idea to have them. If you don't have any after-service, it's a hard thing to check out who's good and who's bad. :(

well.. but believe me you have more options there. The simple equation of Demand + Supply makes things more consumer friendly. here in India the demand is only growing in the past 2-3 years so demand is just picking up and the supply is still in the "old ways"..
just a matter of time though.

I guess it is local products , if of good enough quality which might improve tihngs. if one notices local products of the same quality and lower price also providing for warranty..then the others will be forced to do it as well.


In the end everything follows demand.

derboxenmann schrieb:

we have rules in germany for things like that.. in fact we have rules here for everything... it's very often very stupid... but for many things, it's just a good idea to have them. If you don't have any after-service, it's a hard thing to check out who's good and who's bad. :(

Let me ask you a question. Would you share information openly with the customers if they asked you what kind of after sales service and warranty support will they get from you or would you have any reservation answering this question? Do you think it is the right of the customers to know what kind of after sales service and warranty they will get before buying a product?

Let me ask you a question. Would you share information openly with the customers if they asked you what kind of after sales service and warranty support will they get from you or would you have any reservation answering this question? Do you think it is the right of the customers to know what kind of after sales service and warranty they will get before buying a product?

You have to say it.
It'S all in the AGBs... there you find everything you need to know as a customer.
If you have questions the dealer will tell you, because he wants to sell smth

Arj schrieb:

well.. but believe me you have more options there. The simple equation of Demand + Supply makes things more consumer friendly. here in India the demand is only growing in the past 2-3 years so demand is just picking up and the supply is still in the "old ways".. just a matter of time though. I guess it is local products , if of good enough quality which might improve tihngs. if one notices local products of the same quality and lower price also providing for warranty..then the others will be forced to do it as well. In the end everything follows demand.

However, the pricing strategy of the dealers seems to be very different here. Let's take the example of Plinius in Absolute Phase. The SA-Reference is priced at Rs 800,000/-. The US or European price of the same when converted to INR would be even lesser than that (let's take $15000 at 45, which comes to Rs 675,000/-). The dealers are prompt enough to cite the US or European prices (whichever is higher) when asked about the exorbitant pricing and mark-up. But they are not willing to respond about the comparision of the infrastructure and the after sales & warranty support available in US and Europe. So the inference is very obvious - price the products even higher than the price in US or Europe without any commitment to after sales service and warranty. In such a case, how much can be negotiated? Let's say for SA-ref, the negotiated price is one lakh lesser. It still is higher than the US or Europe price but without any after sales support. This is ridiculous.

The Plinius Parts come from NewZealand...
Ask for your Price including shipping costs there

The prices aren't the same for everyone... so the problem is, that maybe Plinius doesn't sell to india... so the Dealer in India has got to by it in another country...
and he want's to earn some money, too...

derboxenmann schrieb:

You have to say it. It'S all in the AGBs... there you find everything you need to know as a customer. If you have questions the dealer will tell you, because he wants to sell smth ;)

What is AGB by the way?

Regarding the dealer telling us openly about the after sales, well, it does not happen here.

If you would have noticed, Absolute Phase as a dealer is extremely prompt in posting all new arrivals and products for sale. But when it comes to posts like this, where transparency is sought about the quality of the after sales service and warranty support, there is no response. Simply because there is no such thing as after sales service and warranty support that's assured by the dealer; it does not exist. But it is unsaid. The customer is under the impression that the product s/he is buying is authentic and is covered by under after sales warranty. but later wakes up to the rude reality of non-existence of after sales support. To add to the misery, the customer would have paid 300-350% more on the distributor price and could have purchased the product much cheaper in the grey market. Either way, there is no after sales support. So why pay more?

Maybe you should find a good Dealer in Germany... if you buy the regular way you have the same position like a german buyer.

If you need warranty you just need to send it to here...

BUT: what do, if the dealer rips you off? I don't know... so you need to find a good one!

AGB stands for "Allgemeine Geschäfts Bedingungen"
It means: terms and conditions of business
There are rules for it... you can't write in the what you want!

derboxenmann schrieb:

The Plinius Parts come from NewZealand... Ask for your Price including shipping costs there The prices aren't the same for everyone... so the problem is, that maybe Plinius doesn't sell to india... so the Dealer in India has got to by it in another country... and he want's to earn some money, too...

The dealer (Absolute Phase) isn't ready to share the details of the exorbitant pricing. It has been observed that what costs x to the dealer will cost about 2x as the retail price including shipping, duties and the dealer's margin. But the dealer sells the same for 4x without any after sales service and warranty.

ouch...
so... don't buy!

derboxenmann schrieb:

BUT: what do, if the dealer rips you off? I don't know... so you need to find a good one!

Absolute Phase claims to be the only authorized dealer in India for Plinius. But we are not even getting the transparency for a supposedly authorized dealer - no after sales terms and conditions, no pricing and shipping details, etc. It is just a black box.

derboxenmann schrieb:

AGB stands for "Allgemeine Geschäfts Bedingungen" It means: terms and conditions of business There are rules for it... you can't write in the what you want!

Are these standard for all dealers? Who sets these?
All dealers in India have their own rules. And all rules are for the benefit of the dealer; no benefit for the customer.

derboxenmann schrieb:

ouch... so... don't buy!

You may want to check my post named "Prices of Plinius products 300% more than the distributor price " under other hi-fi to get an idea how the Plinius dealer in India (Absolute Phase) is ripping its customers apart.

Who sets the rules?
Let's say so:
If you don't play after the rules... maybe you go to jail or pay high fees"

If you're selling Product for too high prices it's "Wucher", yes, we have a word for that... (it's usury in english)

derboxenmann schrieb:

Who sets the rules? Let's say so: If you don't play after the rules... maybe you go to jail or pay high fees" If you're selling Product for too high prices it's "Wucher", yes, we have a word for that... (it's usury in english)

It appears that the rules are centrally controlled by the government and the dealers can't manipulate them. The same isn't the case in India. The dealers manipulate the customers as per their whims and fancies like I mentioned about the pricing of Plinius products by Absolute Phase.

centrally controlled by the government
Yes, nice phrase.. may english is a bit rusty, you know...

We have other problems with dealers in germany...
there are many who sell 500000W amplifier with less than 100w RMS...
And there's nothing you can do about.
If you don't know too much about electronics you're lost!

derboxenmann schrieb:

ouch... so... don't buy!

exqctly. if no one buys the price will come down. even if one person buys then forget it and get another brand as to a dealer 1 person buying at 3 times his price is better than 6 people buying at a 'good price'.

and I doubt if there are 6 buyers in one city for it in the Indian market !

Guys, if someone wants to buy a Plinius or a Wadia, then I am sure that person can buy a same day return ticket to Singapore and buy the same from there if the after sales service and pricing in India is not upto the mark. This way the dealer will be forced to cut the margins and also the product could be bought at an extra cost of Rs 10,000.
What do you say Dare Devil?

panditr schrieb:

Guys, if someone wants to buy a Plinius or a Wadia, then I am sure that person can buy a same day return ticket to Singapore and buy the same from there if the after sales service and pricing in India is not upto the mark. This way the dealer will be forced to cut the margins and also the product could be bought at an extra cost of Rs 10,000. What do you say Dare Devil?

Certainly an option.

Dare_Devil schrieb:

panditr schrieb: Guys, if someone wants to buy a Plinius or a Wadia, then I am sure that person can buy a same day return ticket to Singapore and buy the same from there if the after sales service and pricing in India is not upto the mark. This way the dealer will be forced to cut the margins and also the product could be bought at an extra cost of Rs 10,000. What do you say Dare Devil? Certainly an option.

But not the solution..

Arjun wrote:

exqctly. if no one buys the price will come down. even if one person buys then forget it and get another brand as to a dealer 1 person buying at 3 times his price is better than 6 people buying at a 'good price'. and I doubt if there are 6 buyers in one city for it in the Indian market !

Talking of Plinius and Primare

How many Primare CD31, A30 or A32 have been sold in India?

Plinius, how many equips were brought to India for Demo and how many sold ?

I think we should encourage these dealers to least get more such gear for demo even though their bean counters may not be happy

I dont think that anyone buying hi value gear will pay 3 times the US or UK price and such transactions are taking place. The high price quoted may be for increasing the snob value of the brand. A person buying hifi worth over Rs.500k will look at all the options such as getting it from abroad with the same old service issue still there. Eventually if a local dealer can offer the same product at about 15% to 20% discount over US/UK price he will be happy without any after sales service.

Why?

What other option does he have?

Why should the buyer be concerned about the dealers margin?

Didnt the buyer got the gear he wanted at a price lower than that he would have paid abroad?

Indian market is so small for Hifi and cannot be considerd worth a business, the AV market is one which can bring in the daily bread for the dealers and most of them are doing a good job too.

In my experience "you will get what you want if you ask for it" you try to outsmart him he will try to do the same! the smarter guy wins

ani schrieb:

I think we should encourage these dealers to least get more such gear for demo even though their bean counters may not be happy :)

How?

ani schrieb:

I dont think that anyone buying hi value gear will pay 3 times the US or UK price and such transactions are taking place. The high price quoted may be for increasing the snob value of the brand. A person buying hifi worth over Rs.500k will look at all the options such as getting it from abroad with the same old service issue still there. Eventually if a local dealer can offer the same product at about 15% to 20% discount over US/UK price he will be happy without any after sales service.

Does not happen though. The prices are even higher than the US and Europe retail.

ani schrieb:

Why? What other option does he have? Why should the buyer be concerned about the dealers margin? Didnt the buyer got the gear he wanted at a price lower than that he would have paid abroad?

What do these questions mean?

ani schrieb:

In my experience "you will get what you want if you ask for it" you try to outsmart him he will try to do the same! the smarter guy wins :(

Only if we educate the customers about a non-existent after sales that the dealers promise. And also the room available for negotiation in pricing.

well asking about after sales warranty for regular goods I guess may need to be an education for many people.

But I would expect someone buying a serious product like the above brands and paying serious money for it to know/think about what they are getting into !
I mean how many of us would plonk down 1 Lakh plus on the table and buy a product without understanding and thinking enough of how factors like warranty, after sales, dealer support etc !

And this is true not just for Audio..there are enough people getting ripped off on Land deals due to the same lack of "due diligence"

Dear Dare devil,


Why? -> Why shouldnt the buyer be not happy?

What is the other option the buyer has in getting his gear at a cheaper rate?

Last 2 question are clear enough.

Only if we educate the customers about a non-existent after sales that the dealers promise. And also the room available for negotiation in pricing.

Very valid point which needs to be brought to notice of all.

Arj has rightly pointed out about land deals and people getting ripped off, sadest part is that the poorest section gets ripped off. Same is the case with hifi and av gear the average buyer is having the greatest probability of getting cheated.

Arj schrieb:

well asking about after sales warranty for regular goods I guess may need to be an education for many people. But I would expect someone buying a serious product like the above brands and paying serious money for it to know/think about what they are getting into ! I mean how many of us would plonk down 1 Lakh plus on the table and buy a product without understanding and thinking enough of how factors like warranty, after sales, dealer support etc ! And this is true not just for Audio..there are enough people getting ripped off on Land deals due to the same lack of "due diligence"

Land deals are understandable. So is the caution while buying from grey market, etc. But how on earth a customer would think of being duped by authorized dealers?? The primary reason for going to the authorized dealer is to get after sales warranty and support. That's implicit. And because of that the customer is willing to pay the extra money to buy from the dealer. Then why again ask about these basic things which should come with the dealership anyway?

since we pay the money..it makes sense that we are more careful !

If one makes sure of all aspects before the deal and you have papers to prove it,you will always have a way of recourse.

trusting is important, but Blind trusting on "spoken word" which cannot be proved in any court/forum is IMHO slightly silly.. so if you get into a business deal without proof , based only on trust, then one must be prepared for its implications.

Again, I am not saying that people should not be trusted, but in financial deals especially large sales, does it not make sense to get into int where everything is clear to everyone ?.

Dont we always ask for a warranty card etc when we buy a Washing machine or even a sony compo stereo from a regular white goods dealer ! why dont we do the same with a Hi Fi dealer ?

Arj schrieb:

since we pay the money..it makes sense that we are more careful ! If one makes sure of all aspects before the deal and you have papers to prove it,you will always have a way of recourse. trusting is important, but Blind trusting on "spoken word" which cannot be proved in any court/forum is IMHO slightly silly.. so if you get into a business deal without proof , based only on trust, then one must be prepared for its implications. Again, I am not saying that people should not be trusted, but in financial deals especially large sales, does it not make sense to get into int where everything is clear to everyone ?. Dont we always ask for a warranty card etc when we buy a Washing machine or even a sony compo stereo from a regular white goods dealer ! why dont we do the same with a Hi Fi dealer ?

So like you suggested in your earlier post in this thread, will it make sense to have checklist for ensuring we do not get a raw deal?

Hi,
Maybe some one needs to put in a kind word for the decent dealer in India too. I bought my Shure cartidge from the official delhi Dealer, it turned out that the tip was damaged. I wrote to them, they took a fortnight, but I recieved a new cartridge, no problems. Elsewhere I had a home audition of a CD player (sent from bombay to Jaipur). I did not like it and had it sent back to Bombay but at my cost. I bought some equipment in Dubai. To my chagrin I found that it was available for much the same price in India after duty. Yes I know there are some dealers who charge outrageous prices, for instance the dealer for Jamo speakers, but lets not paint everyone with the same brush.

We do need to encourage the good ones, for as we all know, most of us visit or check out ten places before picking up something. I suspect that some level the dealer too is in this business for the love of it as much as for profit. So we need to help the members become aware of the better dealers, at the same time as alerting them of the rapacious ones.

Purnendu

purnendu schrieb:

Hi, Maybe some one needs to put in a kind word for the decent dealer in India too. I bought my Shure cartidge from the official delhi Dealer, it turned out that the tip was damaged. I wrote to them, they took a fortnight, but I recieved a new cartridge, no problems. Elsewhere I had a home audition of a CD player (sent from bombay to Jaipur). I did not like it and had it sent back to Bombay but at my cost. I bought some equipment in Dubai. To my chagrin I found that it was available for much the same price in India after duty. Yes I know there are some dealers who charge outrageous prices, for instance the dealer for Jamo speakers, but lets not paint everyone with the same brush. We do need to encourage the good ones, for as we all know, most of us visit or check out ten places before picking up something. I suspect that some level the dealer too is in this business for the love of it as much as for profit. So we need to help the members become aware of the better dealers, at the same time as alerting them of the rapacious ones. Purnendu

I agree. In fact, it should be both. We should encourage good dealers and mention what they do to ensure good customer service. On the other hand, we should also bring out the bad practices of the dealers and mention what they do not do but are supposed to do for customers.
Surprisingly enough, I find that the bad practices posted in this forum are not taken in the right spirit and there are effort to discourage such posts, prevent the truth from coming out and no effort to address the concerns posted. Some menbers like Amp_Nut also resort to personal attacks instead of focusing on the issues to divert the forum members.

removed

Arj schrieb:

Thts a very unfair and unwarranted statement. he is one of the most helpful and knowledgeable posters in this forum..and he has an equal right to post his views as you have. If you want to make this forum a personal vendatta its your problem as all you have posted in this forum is on one topic.

I have not posted a single unprovoked comment. Please refer to the words used by Amp_Nut to my posts without any rhyme or reason. I have not questioned anybody's knowledge or helpfulness here. Given Amp_Nut's experience, I would not expect him to start personal attacks by using words like "coward", etc.
As I have mentioned earlier, I do not have any personal vendetta and would like to be cited an instance where I have not mentioned about an issue. Rather, I have been attacked for raising and discussing an issue openly in the forum.
The topics I chhose to post on are my personal choice, whether one or many. By the way, I have talked about

1) excessive pricing by dealers
2) lack of transparency into after sales service warranty by dealers
3) suggestion about what we can do to make dealers accountable

These are three different topics in my opinion. It is a different matter that all my experience have been with a single dealer - Absolute Phase in this case. Why is this drive to call for my head if I mention anything against a dealer or a forum member for a wrong doing? Is this forum only for exchanging pleasantries? Why was Amp_Nut not questioned for making personal attacks? And I am not liked because I am speaking the facts and on the face?

forget it buddy.. ...I guess we will start on the same lines as before hence I withdraw my post