Expensive Audio CD player - what difference does it make?

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jayashree
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#1 erstellt: 18. Okt 2008, 14:59
Hi,

When I go through the various AV Magazines or browse through the shelves of AV shops I find dedicated CD players ranging between 5000k to 1lakh.I want to know how does a CD player differ from each other?Is it the lens for which the cost differs?Do we get a better audio output the more we invest in a CD player.Its the amplifier which makes the difference in sound output.But does the CD player also has a role to play?Please enlighten.
jayashree
Schaut ab und zu mal vorbei
#2 erstellt: 19. Okt 2008, 14:22
No replies?!
bhagwan69
Inventar
#3 erstellt: 20. Okt 2008, 03:32

jayashree schrieb:
I find dedicated CD players ranging between 5000k to 1lakh.


I have never come across a 5000 K CD Player in my life.
The 'most expensive' CD Player I have ever heard was @ US $'s 70/- K or Rs. 35 lac or 3500 K. The Teac 7 box - P 0 & D 0 combination. Maybe the dcS Scarleti too is @ simmilar price point [SNV kindly confirm].

Have you [or anyone] ever come across a 5000 K CD Player ?
If so, please do let me know.

In India - the 'most expensive' CD Player I have heard have all been in the US $'s 15/- K to US $'s 25/- K range. These being - dcS Elgar & its 'partners' / EMM Labs / Meridian / Teac Esoteric P 3 & D 3 [combinations included] / Bow Tech ZZ Eight etc. etc.

But to try and address the 'fundamental part of your question -

Its the amplifier which makes the difference in sound output.But does the CD player also has a role to play


In my books - the 'source' is the most important.
The maximum differance a good cd player can make......

sivat
Stammgast
#4 erstellt: 20. Okt 2008, 05:17

jayashree schrieb:
Hi,

When I go through the various AV Magazines or browse through the shelves of AV shops I find dedicated CD players ranging between 5000k to 1lakh.I want to know how does a CD player differ from each other?Is it the lens for which the cost differs?Do we get a better audio output the more we invest in a CD player.Its the amplifier which makes the difference in sound output.But does the CD player also has a role to play?Please enlighten.


Jayashree,

Fair Question. A CD player typically consists of four major parts

-> 1.0 The transport - that picks up the signal from CD
-> 1.1 Interface between transport and DAC module (with filters, upsamplers, oversamplers...and what not)

-> 2.0 DAC
-> 2.1 Misc circuits like IV, filter, etc.,

-> 3.0 Output Stage

-> 4.0 Various power supply

Infact many people only take into consideration 1.1 and 2.0 as the reference parameters for a DAC. But the key is that all the four stages are equally important. In particular the output stage, i found to be very very critical ....not only for its sonic signature, but also equally important on how it fares in interfacing with preamp/amplifier.

As you fix one problem after another, you will end up spending a lot of "high" quality components that are definte to a burn a hole in your pocket..

All said and done. You will never know the difference till you hear it....knock on the doors of SNV.

Regards
Siva.
G_S_Madhav
Stammgast
#5 erstellt: 20. Okt 2008, 05:34
Siva you might want to add the chassis / Enclosure also to the list!
sivat
Stammgast
#6 erstellt: 20. Okt 2008, 05:46

G_S_Madhav schrieb:
Siva you might want to add the chassis / Enclosure also to the list!


-> 1.2 Chassis / Dampening (this is transport related)
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#7 erstellt: 20. Okt 2008, 07:41
jayashree ... remember Auto ads that give the "Miles per Gallon" ... which says in the fine print " Your Milage May Vary"

The same holds for Audio Systems.

Expensive equipment needs similar grade ( expense ) partnering equipment, to bring out / make apparent the improvements.

An entry level system, will probably not reveal ANY sound quality difference between a Rs 30K CD player and a Rs 200 K CD Player.

The audiophile too, needs to be able to identify the subtle difference.... much like Gourmet food...
bhagwan69
Inventar
#8 erstellt: 20. Okt 2008, 07:50

Amp_Nut schrieb:
The audiophile too, needs to be able to identify the subtle difference.... much like Gourmet food... :)


Well said;

SNV
Stammgast
#9 erstellt: 20. Okt 2008, 09:27

bhagwan69 schrieb:


I have never come across a 5000 K CD Player in my life.
The 'most expensive' CD Player I have ever heard was @ US $'s 70/- K or Rs. 35 lac or 3500 K. The Teac 7 box - P 0 & D 0 combination. Maybe the dcS Scarleti too is @ simmilar price point [SNV kindly confirm].


Its the amplifier which makes the difference in sound output.But does the CD player also has a role to play


In my books - the 'source' is the most important.
The maximum differance a good cd player can make......



Dear Bhagwan,

The dCS Scarlatti system now consists of the - Transport, Dac, Upsampler & Clock.

The system costs a little over USD 80,000/-. Maybe, it is also the most expensive cd player in the world, maybe.

Regards
SNV
abhi.pani
Inventar
#10 erstellt: 20. Okt 2008, 09:47

When I go through the various AV Magazines or browse through the shelves of AV shops I find dedicated CD players ranging between 5000k to 1lakh.


Guys, I think we need to auto-correct...I am sure he meant 5k to 1 Lakh .


An entry level system, will probably not reveal ANY sound quality difference between a Rs 30K CD player and a Rs 200 K CD Player.

The audiophile too, needs to be able to identify the subtle difference.... much like Gourmet food...


Nope....The differences are not subtle when you go from a 30k CDP to a 200k CDP. Its huge and easily identified provided one listens to them within the same setup and room.
Arj
Inventar
#11 erstellt: 20. Okt 2008, 09:56

jayashree schrieb:
Hi,

When I go through the various AV Magazines or browse through the shelves of AV shops I find dedicated CD players ranging between 5000k to 1lakh.I want to know how does a CD player differ from each other?Is it the lens for which the cost differs?Do we get a better audio output the more we invest in a CD player.Its the amplifier which makes the difference in sound output.But does the CD player also has a role to play?Please enlighten.


For sound you have the following components (Highly Summarized) ..some you can change and some you can only wish you can change..the below will make more than 90% difference in sound

Each is important as in the end it is a system with all their synergy which makes music. at any point anything can be a bottleneck...only thing which stops you as how far are you willing to go ($$$$) for perfection

1. Media : CDs/LPs etc etc we are more or less helpless on the quality available but knowledgable folks know which pressing is better..

2. Source: Very important as this is the beginning of the system signal. try to get the best out of here for your budget

3: Amplification: needs to be clean and without distortion. ideally a 'straight wire with gain" but has to have a lot of synergy with the speakers..that is very important

4. Speakers: This is the component where the sound varies the most ..many speaker which have differen sound can all be " correct " as there is no absolute in audio. a lot depends on the Amplification, the Room and the ear of the listener

5: Room: the biggest contributor to changes in sound - the the most expensive Component (Yes it can be called that) speaker placement is an art and the chepest tweak in terms ofcost but the most expensive in the terms of time.

6. the Ear + Brain: Not really a component and we are stuck with ours. but each ear is different and has a different response curve so twop people sitting in the same place can percieve the same sound as different.

the rest of the 10% in sound can be summarized by vibration control, power and cables. of course i am assumion tha all ththese are "Decent quality"in the 90%. eg a really bad cable or very dirty power can cause really bad sound in the best and worst of systems.


[Beitrag von Arj am 20. Okt 2008, 13:04 bearbeitet]
maxcoutinho
Ist häufiger hier
#12 erstellt: 20. Okt 2008, 12:26

jayashree schrieb:
No replies?!

Here is my take on this:

Each and every component is important in the HiFi chain, however the CD player by the sheer fact that it is the first link is the most critical one.

Any data lost at this stage can never be retrieved at later stages what ever the cost and quality of the the other supporting equipment may be.

It does pay to have high Quality Equipment so that the true attributes of the CD player and sound can be appreciated but the CD Player should not be a compromise.

Max
SNV
Stammgast
#13 erstellt: 20. Okt 2008, 14:23

maxcoutinho schrieb:

jayashree schrieb:
No replies?!

Here is my take on this:

Each and every component is important in the HiFi chain, however the CD player by the sheer fact that it is the first link is the most critical one.

Any data lost at this stage can never be retrieved at later stages what ever the cost and quality of the the other supporting equipment may be.

It does pay to have high Quality Equipment so that the true attributes of the CD player and sound can be appreciated but the CD Player should not be a compromise.

Max


I second that.

Regards
SNV
jayashree
Schaut ab und zu mal vorbei
#14 erstellt: 20. Okt 2008, 18:37
[/quote]

Guys, I think we need to auto-correct...I am sure he meant 5k to 1 Lakh .

[quote]
Correct.It was a misquote.
jayashree
Schaut ab und zu mal vorbei
#15 erstellt: 20. Okt 2008, 18:39
Thanks for all the inputs dear friends.Will revert if any further clarifications are required.
bhagwan69
Inventar
#16 erstellt: 21. Okt 2008, 02:09

jayashree schrieb:


Guys, I think we need to auto-correct...I am sure he meant 5k to 1 Lakh .



Correct.It was a misquote.


Ok.

The differance between a 5K & a 20K CD Player itself are 'huge' & then as one goes up the ladder [of price] the differance do exist but the visibility of it gets 'reduced'
Basically, if you put a 'cheaper' CD Player in a 'mid fi' to 'hi fi' set up then its presence would be felt [heard] in a second.
To 'test' the performance of a CD Player it always has to be heard 'side by side' next to another CD player in the same set up !
deaf
Stammgast
#17 erstellt: 21. Okt 2008, 03:40
Well guys,the fundamental aspect of any CD player regardless of cost is to sound like music, which is difficult for digital equipment to do. Beyond a point, price is a matter of mine is bigger than yours. Many a times certain sources do not shine in a given chain, while they may outstrip another player several times its price in a differnt chain. The real magic is what a talented dealer can get out of a machine during a demo. I have heard several multi boxed devices costing several thousand USDs,sound hi-fi fantastic but still not muciscally convincing and vice versa.As far as a 1 lakh player goes, I believe I have one of the best in the market if not the best.
Deaf.
Arj
Inventar
#18 erstellt: 21. Okt 2008, 03:57

deaf schrieb:
...As far as a 1 lakh player goes, I believe I have one of the best in the market if not the best.
Deaf.



deaf, which one is that ? do let us know..unless it classes with the commercial member rules (you can alsways PM me then )
particleman
Stammgast
#19 erstellt: 21. Okt 2008, 07:47

deaf schrieb:
As far as a 1 lakh player goes, I believe I have one of the best in the market if not the best.
Deaf.


Not the new Arcam CD37 by any chance? Finally a decent SACD spinner under 1 lakh!
SNV
Stammgast
#20 erstellt: 21. Okt 2008, 08:18

deaf schrieb:
.As far as a 1 lakh player goes, I believe I have one of the best in the market if not the best.
Deaf.


Hi Deaf,

That makes two of us now.
I believe I too have one of the best cd players under a lac - CYRUS CD6SE.
One has to hear it to believe it.

Regards
SNV
sound56
Hat sich gelöscht
#21 erstellt: 21. Okt 2008, 08:36
Hi

Most CD players, even very expenive ones, deliver only datas - no music.

For my ears, I only can stand WADIA for long time listening. Even the old one´s are better than all the NEW stuff.

I listened for almost 12 years a WADIA X32 DAC and this one is still better than the most new CD players.

So, go and listen a WADIA and hear the difference

Regards
sivat
Stammgast
#22 erstellt: 21. Okt 2008, 08:45
My CD player is also the best
G_S_Madhav
Stammgast
#23 erstellt: 21. Okt 2008, 08:55
Forget all that , my Pioneer DVDP S386 is above all, always at the TOP!!!!!
Arj
Inventar
#24 erstellt: 21. Okt 2008, 09:16

sound56 schrieb:
Hi


I listened for almost 12 years a WADIA X32 DAC and this one is still better than the most new CD players.



i have heard the X32 and the X64 digmaster (?) as well and owned a waidia 12 too. the older Wadias really were very good in the sound department. solid & dependable to boot.
deaf
Stammgast
#25 erstellt: 21. Okt 2008, 10:11
Okay Arj,lets junk the rules, it is the Holfi Xenia.
Deaf.
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#26 erstellt: 21. Okt 2008, 11:40


Holfi Xenia.


Sold In Idia ? By Who ?

What price ? ( Its US $ 350 List ... ? )
deaf
Stammgast
#27 erstellt: 21. Okt 2008, 14:21

Amp_Nut schrieb:


Holfi Xenia.


Sold In Idia ? By Who ?

What price ? ( Its US $ 350 List ... ? )


Can't answer you as my post was moderated. :D. Retail price is Euro:1600/-list,and the only reason I write this to inform everybody is that it is not USD 350/- List.
Deaf.


[Beitrag von deaf am 21. Okt 2008, 14:21 bearbeitet]
bhagwan69
Inventar
#28 erstellt: 21. Okt 2008, 18:06
http://www.holfi.com...7e-a2ab-89529b3cc931

Is this the player you talking about ?
Never heard it;
Is it good ?

With regards to Wadia - Good CD Player;
Owned the 861 but was very easily superseaded by several other machines.
Well built, but not any where close to what the top end cd players of the day can do [sorry sound56 !!].......

In fact MSB [from our forum] just sold a wadia cd player that he owned to some one in Netherland - I think. Purchased a Cary CD / SACD 306 Professional in its place - seems to be reasonably happy with it....so I have been told;;;

Holfi in India :-
http://www.holfi.com...f6-8ca7-ed93b536458c

INDIA Nexus Audio Video
Sea-Lord-A, No171.
Cuffee Parade
400005 Mumbai
Phon: +91 98 197 270 55
kjaudio@yahoo.com
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#29 erstellt: 22. Okt 2008, 02:32


In fact MSB [from our forum] just sold a wadia cd player that he owned to some one in Netherland - I think. Purchased a Cary CD / SACD 306 Professional in its place - seems to be reasonably happy with it....so I have been told;


Great decision, MSB.

I heard the CARY 306 in my setup. GREAT player... Super price.

The strong Bass foundation should complement yr speakers very well.

ENJOY !
msb1
Stammgast
#30 erstellt: 05. Nov 2008, 08:28

Amp_Nut schrieb:


In fact MSB [from our forum] just sold a wadia cd player that he owned to some one in Netherland - I think. Purchased a Cary CD / SACD 306 Professional in its place - seems to be reasonably happy with it....so I have been told;


Great decision, MSB.

I heard the CARY 306 in my setup. GREAT player... Super price.

The strong Bass foundation should complement yr speakers very well.

ENJOY !


Hi,
The Cary 306 SACD Pro is indeed a superb player. Best I have owned. Upgraded from the Wadia 861 which it outclasses in every way possible. I actually did a blind A/B with a player costing 2x the price and personally preferred the Cary. Sounding excellent in my setup.


[Beitrag von msb1 am 05. Nov 2008, 08:29 bearbeitet]
bhagwan69
Inventar
#31 erstellt: 06. Nov 2008, 03:18
Hello MSB1 !


The Cary 306 SACD Pro is indeed a superb player. Best I have owned. Upgraded from the Wadia 861 which it outclasses in every way possible. I actually did a blind A/B with a player costing 2x the price and personally preferred the Cary. Sounding excellent in my setup.


Nice choice !
I too loved the player. Mr. Billy Wright and his company had done a superb job with it.
The player & Cary Audio products are available in Atria Mall.
All forum members from Mumbai should call and drop by for a listen. This same 306 CD / SACD Professional too is available there.

Now you need to build a Audio / Music Server.
This will connect to your CARY through its digital input.
Perfect solution for you.
Buy an HTPC Case + Lynx L 22 sound card & build your own music server.

P.S. I too preferred this Cary over the Meridian [sometimes] but it was not 'convincing'
All said, this Cary is a 'free deal' player !! Enjoy it.

p.s. Just change the format [CD to SACD] a little slowly - handle with care and respect. Needs some time. DO not rush it......
msb1
Stammgast
#32 erstellt: 06. Nov 2008, 09:21
Where can I get an HTPC case in India?
Ideal setup would be to have a touchscreen to control everything from. Anyone tried this?
bhagwan69
Inventar
#33 erstellt: 06. Nov 2008, 10:02

msb1 schrieb:
Where can I get an HTPC case in India?


This is the main problem;
I am hunting for 1 high and low.

http://www.primeabgb...virtuemart&Itemid=28
Does any forum member have any idea ?
Please do suggest;

Thanks,
Suche:
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