A nice afternoon spent with Jochen Semler (Cadence)

Autor

Beitrag

abhi.pani
Inventar

#1 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 08:29

Hello Everyone,
Looks like the Forum is a bit dull for the last 1-2 days.
Let me take this opportunity to describe an eventful weekend afternoon with Jochen Semler. He is well known in the Cadence community. Currently he runs the listening room for Cadence at Bangalore. Went there on Manek's recommendation. Somewhere in his 40s (my guess) Jochen is a German settled in India..an avid audiophile and a great guy to interact with. He owns a Cadence Diva (bought in 1996 I suppose) and a Cadence Class A Tube Amp (23 watts per channel). Apart from that he had a Cadence Arita and a Cadence Avita for demo.
He was using his class A tube amp and a high-end Pioneer CDP for amplification and source respectively.
Cables and interconnects were Siltech (entry level)

This was my very first listen to Cadence. I was always excited about it....heard a lot about them but could never hear them.
Jochen first connected the Aritas (on the awesome Cadence Stands). We started with some Eagles stuff (as usual) moved a ahead with DS, some instrumentals etc. All the while I was admiring how balanced the sound was. There was hardly any hint of any frequency being dominated. Though I would agree that the 23 watter couldnt bring out the raw dynamics out of the box...but hearing a tube amp for the first time I found them to be ultra smooooooooooth. Not a single grain in the sound. No doubt tube guys would find it hard to come to terms with Solid State. But so is true for a hard core solid state fan...cant imagine a tube amp playing metal

.
Coming back to the speakers, the Aritas are just so well built, one can just feel proud of. Weighing around 15kg each, those Standmounts were like a piece of rock. Sound was almost free from any coloration...WHOA

But as I said they require a lot more drive to shine.

Then he connected the Avitas...Man these speakers were in a different league all together. Those electrostats were so rich in their mids...imaging was pin-perfect. The speakers dissapeared instantly with a wide stage behind. The highs extending to infinity...(then I read it could actually go upto 40khz). The amp was satin smooth..but again I would have liked atleast 50% more power. Once the Avitas were on..we stuck to it for the next 2.5 hours. Listening to various genres from Jazz, Pop, Rock (not hard)..some selected test tracks that Jochen recommended...
We also had a interconect comparision session. For the first time I saw some significant difference that ICs can make.
Siltech, Einstein Neutron, Manek DIY (yes Manek is into all this but doesnt let any one know..

).

Finally Jochen and me departed...promising to meet again the coming weekend and once again playing around with all the speakers with my Plinius

. He said he will get the Aritas and Avitas to my place..

I will post about that..after we meet this weekend

reignofchaos
Stammgast

#2 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 08:58

Where is the cadence listening room in bangalore? Would love to go visit it :D.

abhi.pani
Inventar

#3 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 09:14

Electronic City...Can call Jochen on 9845534952 for a session.

Manek
Inventar

#4 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 10:57

glad you liked what you heard abhi

Manek.

SUB_BOSS
Gesperrt

#5 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 11:06

We also had a interconect comparision session. For the first time I saw some significant difference that ICs can make.

AAh I thought you heard the diffrences ...now I guess how you can do more A/B's...

promising to meet again the coming weekend and once again playing around with all the speakers with my Plinius . He said he will get the Aritas and Avitas to my place

Some more A/B's..

abhi.pani
Inventar

#6 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 11:24

AAh I thought you heard the diffrences ...now I guess how you can do more A/B's...

No...I didnt hear significant differences before...I always told you that.

Some more A/B's..

Can you think of something else...say XYZ..because we will be having three pairs this time (Arita, Avita and Audience52)

No buddy its not A/B this time, actually I want to checkout the Cadence stands with Audience52...want to see what difference a real good stand can make..then I may budget for it. Jochen proposed to get the speakers as well...I couldnt deny

....

glad you liked what you heard abhi

Very difficult to dislike Cadence...even if you are heavy a metal fan. The construction, build quality, Components used etc...are just tooo tooo good. That too when you realise its and Indian product you cant help but feel proud.

Manek
Inventar

#7 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 11:28

SUB_BOSS
Gesperrt

#8 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 11:39

Can you think of something else...say XYZ.

For your convenience.. we will coin a term A/B/P..

Very difficult to dislike Cadence...even if you are heavy a metal fan.

I'm sure you would've remembered me and my experience with cadence tubes long ago... they are too good for metal...eehh ahh eeeh ahh....when you hear metal in a good set up you'll love it.. Even metal music reqires a good set up or else all is mixed up and just noise..

That too when you realise its and Indian product you cant help but feel proud

Not to forget Wadia is also an Indian as well as Bose..

abhi.pani
Inventar

#9 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 11:43

Not to forget Wadia is also an Indian as well as Bose..

But the products aint Indian..as Cadence..that gives you a sense of belongingness

For your convenience.. we will coin a term A/B/P..

Manek
Inventar

#10 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 11:46

Wadia I dont think is Indian, to the best of my knowledge. It sounds like a "bawa" name but its not. I too took it for granted that it was Indian but was corrected about it by a friend many years ago.

Manek.

SUB_BOSS
Gesperrt

#11 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 11:46

Cadence..that gives you a sense of belongingness

Yes you are right!, But the key designer is a swedish or german.. so whoooshhhh..

abhi.pani
Inventar

#12 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 12:08

But the key designer is a swedish or german.. so whoooshhhh..

Australian...I suppose

But still its Indian by far...
Atleast for the rest of the world its an Indian product

[Beitrag von abhi.pani am 29. Aug 2006, 12:16 bearbeitet]

SUB_BOSS
Gesperrt

#13 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 12:15

It sounds like a "bawa" name but its not

.. Hi Manek this is indeed disappointing.. I always thought Wadia borrowed trnasports from Philips and made good CDP's.. huh...

Australian...I suppose

I don't mind aussie paid by Indians to work and not otherway round..

Manek
Inventar

#14 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 12:20

The Designer for cadence is "Austrian". Walter Schmidt. he now goes by the name of "Shanti"(Rajneesh follower) so he now has a bit of Indian culture in him as well.

manek.

Amp_Nut
Inventar

#15 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 12:25

I had asked the Wadia rep ( From Wadia USA ) when he had visited India a few years ago, with his wife.

He said Wadia was a Jew ...

NO Indian Roots AT ALL !

square_wave
Inventar

#16 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 12:29

SUB_BOSS schrieb:

Can you think of something else...say XYZ.

For your convenience.. we will coin a term A/B/P..

Very difficult to dislike Cadence...even if you are heavy a metal fan.

That too when you realise its and Indian product you cant help but feel proud

Not to forget Wadia is also an Indian as well as Bose.. ;)

To create “live effect” in your home for rock/metal will need a totally different approach. This kind of setup may not be appropriate for long term listening at home. I happened to be in the “Legends of rock” pub on Sunday and there was this rock band from Finland playing and it was a mix of un-amplified and amplified sound. Most of the amplified stuff was through the Marshall guitar amps and the rest was more or less near-field listening to the actual instruments. The sound although very exciting was deafening to say the least. I enjoyed it thoroughly but I don’t think I could listen to it on a daily basis at home. I would prefer something with lot less distortion.

Arj
Inventar

#17 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 12:30

Manek schrieb:

Manek.

There have been a couple of prominent Wadias in india..but this Wadia is definitely not an indian and as mentioned by Amp_Nut is an Amrecaian of jewish faith

and the full name was Wadia F Moses !

anyway this brand has been sold 2 time now..

ani
Stammgast

#18 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 12:56

Wadia

anyway this brand has been sold 2 time now..

Closed 2 times ...

hope they will carry on making good CD players and DAC/s

Anil

screamgigi
Stammgast

#19 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 13:49

Abhi-jee

Welcome to the world of valve audio.
Now you know why a demented bunch of people continue to flog this archaic 1930’s technology.

abhi.pani
Inventar

#20 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 14:13

screamgigi schrieb:

Abhi-jee

Welcome to the world of valve audio.
Now you know why a demented bunch of people continue to flog this archaic 1930’s technology.

Ya I know...but somehow I was much more impressed by Vinyls when compared to CDs than Tubes when compared to Solid state...

Manek
Inventar

#21 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 14:18

Abhi...then you should hear vinyl's on valves !

Manek.

screamgigi
Stammgast

#22 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 14:30

Manek schrieb:

Abhi...then you should hear vinyl's on valves !

Manek.

On good equipment only please! We don't want this budding romance to be derailed.

Savyasaachi
Inventar

#23 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 14:40

hmm..
there is an interesting dicussion going on on diyaudio.com..
the debate goes that people claim Vinyl to be superior only beacause they haven't truly heard a low loss jitter Transport+DAC..where the clocks are synchronised like the concept proposed by

www.lessloss.com

there is also a heated debate going on in the SOlid State forum where John Curl(Long time Parasound designer and audio legend) and Hugh from AKSA amps are taking part too..

Amazing to see people with real experience to take time off and come discuss on such a forum.

bombaywalla
Stammgast

#24 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 15:25

Arj schrieb:

Manek schrieb:

Manek.

There have been a couple of prominent Wadias in india..but this Wadia is definitely not an indian and as mentioned by Amp_Nut is an Amrecaian of jewish faith

and the full name was Wadia F Moses !

anyway this brand has been sold 2 time now..

Guys,
allow me to put my 2 paisa worth in this Wadia misconception thing - the name Wadia certainly sounds like a "bawa" name IFFFF you pronounce it "waa-dia" like we do in India.
However, this is an American company started by a certain fellow named 'Donald Wadia Moses'. His middle name is pronounced "whah-dee-ah" & as several have pointed out he is of Jewish faith. Used to work for 3M in Minneapolis, MN. Got disenchanted w/ his regular day job & broke away w/ some cronies to found Wadia in 1988.

As Anil has pointed out, his company was bought out from under him in the mid 1990s by venture capitalists (who owned a large stake to begin with. In fact, Don Moses was so enraged, I heard, that he coined a new phrase for VCs - vulture capitalists!). Then, in 2005 they went thru a another major buy-out wherein the employees of Wadia bought out the company from the VCs, who had controlled it since the 1st buy-out.
I've done quite a bit of pooch-taach on this matter!

bombaywalla
Stammgast

#25 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 15:28

abhi.pani schrieb:

).

Finally Jochen and me departed...promising to meet again the coming weekend and once again playing around with all the speakers with my Plinius

. He said he will get the Aritas and Avitas to my place..

I will post about that..after we meet this weekend

glad that you enjoyed your listening session with Jochen Semler. He is a fine fellow indeed & a great host & quite passionate about hi-fi & music.
His representing Cadence in BLR is a very good thing as they (Cadence) do not have any other presence in what appears to be a fairly large emerging market.
I certainly wish him well in his new Cadence endeavour.

bombaywalla
Stammgast

#26 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 15:40

SUB_BOSS schrieb:

Can you think of something else...say XYZ.

For your convenience.. we will coin a term A/B/P..

I know that SUB_BOSS is trying to be funny here but......
there is a term called "A/B/X" where 3 items are being auditioned &/or compared against each other. However, it is *usually* used for 3 similar items. I'm sure you guys already know this?
Hopefully Abhi will change 1 variable at a time during his 2nd listening session to get a better pix of the Cadence speakers in his system.
Abhi, you are interested in new speakers hence these listening sessions?

abhi.pani
Inventar

#27 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 16:05

bombaywalla schrieb:

SUB_BOSS schrieb:

Can you think of something else...say XYZ.

For your convenience.. we will coin a term A/B/P..

Hey no man...its just a normal curosity to listen to different setups...I hope it happens with everyone.

goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht

#28 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 16:57

Hi Abhijit,

thanks for nice post about our meeting.

I want to take this as an opportunity to introduce myself to the others on this forum. I had been a member of the German section for some time now, but never contributed anything sofar. I even did not know that an English version exists. Will definetly try to contribute a bit in future. Well about my person Abhi said already the most important things. Perhaps I can meet one or the other of the members in person when they come over to the listening room for a demo... would be nice. Please feel free to send me a mail or call me.

Jochen

abhi.pani
Inventar

#29 erstellt: 29. Aug 2006, 17:37

Hey Jochen,
You are here..

Welcome Buddy..

rockamedi
Gesperrt

#30 erstellt: 06. Sep 2006, 13:09

I have heard valve set up's and somehow never got impressed. Is it the SS slam what I miss or sheer thought that sound coming from glowing bottles is funny.

Anyway listen what you like.

SUB_BOSS
Gesperrt

#31 erstellt: 06. Sep 2006, 13:11

Hey no man...its just a normal curosity to listen to different setups...I hope it happens with everyone

Very commom phenomena... Enjoy BTW how are your new IC's gelling up!

stevieboy
Stammgast

#32 erstellt: 23. Okt 2006, 07:14

instead of creating a new thread i'll just add on here. was went to jochen's place on sunday morning. what better way to start sunday than with some good speakers

for those of you in bangalore, you ought to go to his place. if not for the speakers, for the polite hospitality and the really amazing place he has. didn't feel like bangalore at all!

started off with the arcas and the canasya's. HUGE sound but subtle. heard deep purple's 'burn' on them

mmmmmmmmmmmm moved on to the avitas and the aritas with the 23 watter, which drove them peacefully. and at one point, jochen turned the amp all the way up to the max and no distortion whatsoever! amazing! though the sound did become a little hard in the treble region. i wont belabour the point about all the speakers's neutrality and sound. i'm saving a more detailed review for when i get my amp, viren's harmony one's. then jochen will get the avitas and aritas over for a home listen. or i'll just drop in with my amp before i get my speakers. i'm also reserving a more detailed review cos i thought the room played quite a part in the sound. i have heard the aritas before and they sounded much tighter. even so the sound was not fatiguing from the arcas the avitas and the aritas.

a note here. he has not put in any sound treatement. just a normal living room. a little bigger than the average room. the room i heard the aritas in was a pure commercial establishment and fully treated, even the ceiling.

agree with abhi that the aritas needed more power. rather i'll qualify this. the aritas sounded lovely at the three o'clock position on the 23 watter. bring the level down and you felt something more was needed. more clarity more 'thereness' in the music. i guess most speakers of that sensitivity - 86db - would need to be driven to higher volumes to sound perfect. soft listening just wouldn't do.

would be interesting to see what they can do against a single driver! can't wait.

please do go and have a listen. the house, jochen and the speakers. quite a delightful combination you'll be hard put to find anywhere else

deaf
Stammgast

#33 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 09:12

Arca,great speaker,Canasya great amp,but not necessarily the best match for each other.
Deaf.

goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht

#34 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 09:17

deaf schrieb:

Arca,great speaker,Canasya great amp,but not necessarily the best match for each other.
Deaf.

Why?

Jochen

deaf
Stammgast

#35 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 09:50

That is because I have heard the Arca sound better with another amp ,and the amp sound better with another speaker.
Deaf.

goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht

#36 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 11:06

deaf schrieb:

That is because I have heard the Arca sound better with another amp ,and the amp sound better with another speaker.
Deaf.

Which was the other amp and the other speaker? And what has impressed you so much more with the other combinations?

Jochen

deaf
Stammgast

#37 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 13:26

The aspect which impressed me most was neutrality.The other amp with the Arca was faster,tigher, better LF control and was far more neutral in tone,in other wors the sound was truer with the other amp than with the Canasya.
The same aspects extended the other way for the Canasya with another speaker system.I will refrain from the makes and models.
Deaf.

goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht

#38 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 13:49

deaf schrieb:

Come on Deaf,

I think this is not the way one should start a serious discussion. It's ok for me when you don't want to disclose your identity. But please come over with the makes and models.

Jochen

deaf
Stammgast

#39 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 14:15

Dear Jochen,
Everybody knows my identity,so that is not an issue.In fact I am just stating my experience with regards to the ARCA and Canasya being mated to different choices than each other.
Deaf.

Arj
Inventar

#40 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 14:23

since both of you are gentlemen, i think we know for sure that this discussion will not get out of hand although it shows signs of doing so !

deaf
Stammgast

#41 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 14:27

Arj schrieb:

since both of you are gentlemen, i think we know for sure that this discussion will not get out of hand although it shows signs of doing so !

Dude, you mucho too smarto

.I promise it won't go out of hand.
Deaf.

goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht

#42 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 14:39

deaf schrieb:

Dear Jochen,
Everybody knows my identity,so that is not an issue.In fact I am just stating my experience with regards to the ARCA and Canasya being mated to different choices than each other.
Deaf.

Since I am new here, I don't know you yet, other than your nickname. So let me introduce my self also: My name is Jochen and I demo Cadence products in Bangalore. Otherwise I have been a decicated audiophile since more than 20 years and a music lover since childhood. That time Mozart was my favorite, today I can't stand him. Well the times they are a changing (Bob Dylan).

Cheers,
Jochen

deaf
Stammgast

#43 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 14:59

Hi Jochen,I am KJ, I too have been a dedicated audiophile for close to 2 decades,and I am one of the very few guys privilaged to have seen Cadence since its infancy.I am also one of the very few guys to have actually met Swami Shanti

and seen him in his eccentric elements.The Cadence product today is very different from those early (Golden?) days.You should hear some of the earliest creations,such as the hand made pair Shanti made for himself and the OTL Ajay had in his bedroom,the first Arca pair(62 litre enclosure),they were Cadences from the heart and sounded like that too.If you ever get the chance to hear or own the original OTL do so without hesitation.
Deaf.
PS:Oh I still like Mozart.

goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht

#44 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 15:30

deaf schrieb:

Thanks for your introduction KJ deaf! Now I know a bit more of you except your good name :L. Are you from Pune?

Jochen

deaf
Stammgast

#45 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 15:33

No,Mumbai,I was one of the first guys to work for Cadence way back in '93 or so.
Deaf.

sbfx
Stammgast

#46 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 15:54

I think deaf is refering to my setup here, I have heard the Canasyas with the Arca and yes I found that it was coloured in the mid-band(nothing wrong though) but the bad part was that it dint do bass well it was muddy and slow, I had taken my amps to this persons house who wanted to buy them for his arcas but then we put another SS amp and things changed greatly with regards to speed, far far more agile and correct bass the mid-band was also very clean without much color to it.

On the flip side the canasya's in my setup is extreamly clean SUPER neutral(across the board) with fast tight bass its just wierd but true as a amp by itself it plays like a dream same goes for the arca's. At my friends place who has the arca's had a room tad big things dint fall into place but with the other SS amp it was just much much better supereb acutally :D.

Regards,

Satyam.

[Beitrag von sbfx am 24. Okt 2006, 15:56 bearbeitet]

Arj
Inventar

#47 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 15:57

deaf schrieb:

No,Mumbai,I was one of the first guys to work for Cadence way back in '93 or so.
Deaf.

gulp! was still studying then and had an old set of fisher (i think) turntable and amp and some strange speakers which my cousin then put into a Pot ( ie a ghatam)

anyone had called me an audiophile back then i would have cussed right back assuming it was un-parliamentry language (rather parliamentary these days !)

goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht

#48 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 16:50

deaf schrieb:

No,Mumbai,I was one of the first guys to work for Cadence way back in '93 or so.
Deaf.

'93, then you are really one of the first hour. But golden days?... I don't know. I bought my first Cadence speaker in '96 which has binding posts from Radio Schak and a speaker grill that fell apart once I took it off. Later I bought an amp from '95 which was standing on three instead of four legs only and has the same poor quality binding posts like the speakers and the RCA sockets are of the same poor quality too, and the copper plate also doesn't fit. It doesn't disturb me because the sound is what matters. But when I compare the built quality of those days with todays speakers and amps, then I would say today is the golden age of Cadence. Sorry, can't help it.

Jochen

Kamal
Stammgast

#49 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 17:40

Hi Abhi & Steve,Thx for your experiences re Cadences'eqpt.
It wld be really nice if you B'lore guys could get together, bring your fav Cds & have a joint listening session-I have certainly found auditions much more fun when done alonwith Sanjay&Rahul-you listen to a variety of music, discuss your impressions with the others & generally have more of a ball!
And, do lets us share your experiences with a detailed write up.BTW,do take along the Chesky Demo CD.
Regards,
Kamal

goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht

#50 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 17:51

sbfx schrieb:

Thanks Satyam,

That's what I wanted to hear from deaf. Very much possible that the combo performs totally different in another room, and probably also with different frontend. In the beginning I was also struggeling with muffeled bass and mids till I drastically changed the position of the speakers. I always say that the room and positioning contributes atleast 50%, if not more, to a speaker's performance. And I think the ARCAs are quite a difficult toy to set up, contrary to the AVITAs which are very easy to set up. Atleast in my room. But I got the ARCAs quite right now I think.
BTW what make and model are these SS amps you are talking about?

Jochen

goolimangala
Hat sich gelöscht

#51 erstellt: 24. Okt 2006, 17:55

Kamal schrieb:

Well, I told Abhi already that we can have a meeting here. Best would be of course sometime before the ARCAs and CANASYAs have to be sent back to Pune.
Bangalore guys you please come up with suggestions for a date.

Jochen