A stereo setup to double up as a 5.1 too.is it possible?

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superczar
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#1 erstellt: 06. Feb 2008, 14:58

My current Stereo setup consists of a Reference grade Marantz PM-17 amplifier and a pair of Phase Tech Velocity V-12 floorstanders

It is a fairly good system with a brilliant amp and fairly capable speakers

the phase techs are massive 40 Lb speakers (each) with an amazing frequency response ... (The Velocity is a critically acclaimed line, and the V12 are the highest grade speakers within the series)

The Marantz PM-17 is againa brilliant amp and I really love the way the setup currently sounds.

here is an old pic of the setup (this was just a temp setup..the speakers are too close to the wall in this)

Now here lies the hitch:

The lady wants a 5.1 setup for movies!

A- Sell the amp and speakers, then add some dough to get hold of something like a Crystal audio thx-3d12 and a mid-end 5.1 receiver

B- Retain the front speakers, sell the amp and get matching centers, surround and sub and get a mid-end 5.1 receiver

C- Retain both the amp and speakers, get a sub, surround and center and get a low-mid end 5.1 receiver
Then Feed the integrated amp with the front line out of the receiver while driving the surround, center and sub with the receiver

Each options has some pros and cons I can think of

A- I get a properly matched setup but the new setup will not perform as well on stereo as the existing one

B- I am not sure if I will be able to match the new speakers properly with the existing one

C- I get to retain my stereo setup as is

but the cost goes up and also the question of matching the new speakers remains an issue..Also, I am not sure how many 5.1 receivers will provide for separate line-outs for each channel (though most should..isn't it?)

Expert advice and suggestions solicited

particleman
Stammgast

#2 erstellt: 06. Feb 2008, 16:42

Since the stereo setup perfectly meets your needs and it would indeed be a shame to give any of it away... why not just get an entry-level 5.1/HT setup and keep both sets?

This is closest to your (C) option but without mixing the two, i.e. let the AVR handle movie duties only while you continue enjoying superior music reproduction on the amp.

If worse comes to worst (WAF-wise), the stereo config could seek refuge in your bedroom for a while.

ani
Stammgast

#3 erstellt: 06. Feb 2008, 16:57

HI ,
Selling your existing 2ch reference system at a discount price and putting in more money to get a multichannel setup !! You loose while selling and will have to shell out more money to buy the new setup.

Why don't you add the loss you will incur while selling to your budget for new multich system and get a cute little sub sat for wife. This way she will have her own movie setup and you can retain your reference gear

Regards
Ani

Amp_Nut
Inventar

#4 erstellt: 06. Feb 2008, 17:39

Ever considered a 5.1 surround sound, wireless headphone for your better half ?

Then the existing stereo stays in place... No wires running to behind the sofa ( GREAT WAF ! ) etc :-)

superczar
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#5 erstellt: 06. Feb 2008, 17:43

Ever considered a 5.1 surround sound, wireless headphone for your better half ?

Even though she may get a raw deal eventally, the idea is not to let her know..right?

E

So any recos for moderately priced Subs /center/surround and HT recvr?

[Beitrag von superczar am 06. Feb 2008, 17:47 bearbeitet]

Arj
Inventar

#6 erstellt: 06. Feb 2008, 18:25

if you are happy with your stereo keep it. and buy a separate HT (even if it one of those Home theater in a box of the Samsung/'LG kind) JBL used to have some HTs which had the receiver/decoder built into the sub and all it needed was the digital input from the DVDp

if your HT doubles up as your stereo..who gets to win when your urge to get a music fix clashes with your wifey's favourite soap(s) timing ?

[Beitrag von Arj am 06. Feb 2008, 18:30 bearbeitet]

superczar
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#7 erstellt: 06. Feb 2008, 19:33

umm, but there will be massive mismatch between the HTiB variety and the current setup

So let's say if I wanted something half decent:

- Centers: No point compromising on those..they need to match up well with the fronts

- Sub: No point compromising on this one either..perhaps a decent 10" sub from a respectable local brand like Torvin?

- The sats: The sats can be any random brand..doesnt really matter much..perhaps cheap bookshelves?

Source: the source will be the Mac mini pretty much...currently hooked via HDMI to a Bravia for video and a M-Audio audiophile for stereo audio
Now say if I get an external USB/optical 5.1 card, I could:

- hook the fronts to the Marantz integrated amp on a different input line

- hook the sub line to the powered sub

- hook the center and the surround output to some amp which could drive the center and surrounds..since there are no 3 channel amps, I will have to think of alternatives

so any recos/suggestions?

bombaywalla
Stammgast

#8 erstellt: 07. Feb 2008, 02:11

superczar schrieb:

I wouldn't call my advice "expert" by any means but here goes:-

I like your option C the best as you get to retain your 2-ch setup that seems to be tweaked to your liking & you are happy w/ the gear.
If you sell it & re-buy exactly the same gear again, you'll pay way more that you previously did!

So, selling it seems to be a losing situation.

Re. the low-to-mid end HT receiver - most of the them come with pre-out RCA jacks that are shorted to the power amp input w/ some factory provided jumpers.
You can remove those jumpers & use a Y-adapter: 1 pair goes back to the power amp input of the HT receiver & the 2nd pair drives your Marantz.

bombaywalla
Stammgast

#9 erstellt: 07. Feb 2008, 02:14

superczar schrieb:

I contest your decision!

why do you need a center speaker???
From my experience *if* your front L & R speakers image well, the center space will be completely filled & you will not miss the center channel.
I've found that my TV speakers are sufficient to fill the gap.

Savyasaachi
Inventar

#10 erstellt: 07. Feb 2008, 08:24

Arj schrieb:

Exactly what i would suggest you do. Keep the setup you have and get a HTiB of sorts.

i have my HT setup separate from the stereo setup, in different rooms at opposite ends of the house of course.

superczar
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#11 erstellt: 07. Feb 2008, 10:11

but arent the subs that come with most HtiBs rather boomy?
Is there any decent HTiB that is recommended?

Arj
Inventar

#12 erstellt: 07. Feb 2008, 10:32

the Yamaha YST subs used to be pretty good..do they have a HTIB offering ?

superczar
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#13 erstellt: 07. Feb 2008, 11:15

anyone with any feedback on Torvin subs... I am getting the sw 1100 for 15K here

Savyasaachi
Inventar

#14 erstellt: 07. Feb 2008, 11:33

Get the Deftech Procinema HTiB...

superczar
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#15 erstellt: 07. Feb 2008, 12:30

^^ any idea about the availability and pricing?

Savyasaachi
Inventar

#16 erstellt: 07. Feb 2008, 14:03

There are a few dealers in India..notably "The Audio People" in Chennai.

Last i heard the pro cinema 100( now the 1000) was around 46 to 50k.

superczar
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#17 erstellt: 07. Feb 2008, 19:26

umm..so after some more research and headbreaking, i think I have zeroed into a specific direction

I'll be taking a piecemeal approach attacking the sub first.

So the few subs that I am planning to audition over the weekend are:
- Polk Audio PSW 110 (very fair pricing from ProFX)
- Polk Audio PSW 125 (very fair pricing from ProFX)
- Klipsch Synergy sub 10 (moderately overpriced at Audiopeople)
- Definitive Tech Pro 800 (overpiced at Audiopeople
- Wharfedale SW 150 (fairly priced at PROMUSICALS )
- Wharfedale PC-12 (fairly priced at PROMUSICALS )

Any comments or suggestions?

SDhawan
Stammgast

#18 erstellt: 07. Feb 2008, 20:33

@Arj - What happened to you? Why are you dancing? And who are you dancing with?

bhagwan69
Inventar

#19 erstellt: 08. Feb 2008, 05:33

Savyasaachi schrieb:

Get the Deftech Procinema HTiB...

I second this choice.

Arj
Inventar

#20 erstellt: 08. Feb 2008, 06:07

SDhawan schrieb:

@Arj - What happened to you? Why are you dancing? And who are you dancing with?

just enjoying the music...am rediscovering my setup and as the MacDonald theme goes "Im Loving it "

Arj
Inventar

#21 erstellt: 08. Feb 2008, 07:47

superczar schrieb:

I'll be taking a piecemeal approach attacking the sub first.

So the few subs that I am planning to audition over the weekend are:
- Polk Audio PSW 110 (very fair pricing from ProFX)
- Polk Audio PSW 125 (very fair pricing from ProFX)
- Klipsch Synergy sub 10 (moderately overpriced at Audiopeople)
- Definitive Tech Pro 800 (overpiced at Audiopeople
- Wharfedale SW 150 (fairly priced at PROMUSICALS )
- Wharfedale PC-12 (fairly priced at PROMUSICALS )

Any comments or suggestions?

Audiopeople from what I heard from another Gentleman does have a higher markup to its products but unfortunately that does not translate to better customer service post sale

i personally have been trying to contact them via mail and Zilch response

but leaving that aside Klipsch and Deftech Rock in an HT setup. Polk is not too bad either.. IMHO a 10/12" sub with 100+Watts is required for HT (For Music apparently a 1.5 x main speaker woofer size = HT woofer size is apparently a good size to go by from an integration point of view). the higher the power the better it is.

bombaywalla schrieb:

why do you need a center speaker???
From my experience *if* your front L & R speakers image well, the center space will be completely filled & you will not miss the center channel.
I've found that my TV speakers are sufficient to fill the gap.

fully agree with the above..i have also felt that the need was a bit hyped. if you have a good stereo setup.. a 2.1 setup i found is fantastic .

But i do not agree on the TV speakers part as fill in..it does not always work very well (never has for me)..but if the plane of the TV is behind the speakers front plane (i do not prefer a toe in to avoid reflections off the TV screen.) you can get great imaging.

[Beitrag von Arj am 08. Feb 2008, 07:57 bearbeitet]

ALS
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#22 erstellt: 08. Feb 2008, 08:30

Audiopeople from what I heard from another Gentleman does have a higher markup to its products

.
Very much true Arj.

Now Onkyo is the Disti for Klipsch prods in India. Synergy Sub10 rack price is 21k & Sub12 is 25k. This is as per Onkyo BLR pricing.

bhagwan69
Inventar

#23 erstellt: 08. Feb 2008, 08:41

Onkyo is the Disti for Klipsch prods in India

That is great news !!!

Can I get a demo of :-

Klipsch® Palladium™ P-39F Speaker

I really want to listen to this speaker..............
I have very very high hopes on it.

https://www.klipsch....-supreme-luxury.aspx

http://www.uncrate.c...adium-p39f-speakers/

Does anyone have an idea ?
Thanks.

Arj
Inventar

#24 erstellt: 08. Feb 2008, 09:08

i find it pretty amazing that klipsh are sticking to their core strengths of a tractix horn tweeter(s) + woofers. having owned the RF3 am very happy for them.

wonder if the tweeter/woofer interation is better. should be as per the description

Housed in its own acoustically-tuned, sealed enclosure, the P-39F midrange employs a 4.5-inch inverted aluminum diaphragm driver powered by three high-temperature neodymium magnets, allowing it to operate effortlessly from 500Hz to 3kHz. A copper-capped pole piece reduces inductance modulation, giving a low-distortion, clean sound. The 1-inch voice coil not only delivers high sensitivity, but also generates a very responsive and accurate moving system.

The midrange’s lightweight foamed rubber surround allows the P-39F to achieve improved linear excursion, especially in the high-frequency range. The midrange driver is coupled to a 90-degree by 60-degree acoustically-damped Tractrix Horn via a four-to-one compression phase plug, which is specifically designed to operate over the midrange frequencie

with the RF3 you could sense the handover of sound in some cases..but other than that with the right electronics they rock.

any idea of the response,crossover points and the sensitivity ?

ALS
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#25 erstellt: 08. Feb 2008, 09:08

P-39F -> $15k speaker, appears great!!
Sir, you 've to check with Onkyo about its immediate availablity. I've forward you their some package deals like Synergy, Reference & some KL series.

ALS
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#26 erstellt: 08. Feb 2008, 09:44

Besides, Klipsch they've introduced one Pure Accoustics, US brand speakers. This may be ideal for low-budget setups. Can check the details <www.pure-acoustics.com>

Some pricings are as below:
MRP:
=====
AV799F(Front,250w,8ohms,3way)=Rs16,000/-
AV799C(Center,150w,8ohms,2way)=Rs4000/-
AV799S(Surround,150w,8ohms,2way)=Rs6000/-
SubRB1150(Powered Sub,175w,10inches)=Rs14000/-
===========================================
Total 5.1 = Rs40,000/-

[PS:I've no experience on above, the info was from one of their news letter]

ALS
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#27 erstellt: 08. Feb 2008, 09:56

Arj> Me too enjoyed my RF3s for about 2yrs

Specs of P-39F is as below.
===========================================================

Specifications: Palladium P-39F

Frequency Response 39Hz-24kHz +/-3dB
Low Frequency Extension 28Hz
High Frequency Extension 30kHz
Sensitivity 99dB @ 2.83V / 1m
Nominal Impedance 4 ohms (2.9 ohms min)
Power Handling 400W continuous / 1600W peak
Recommended Amplifier Power 50 - 1000W
Maximum Output Level 126dB (2 speakers in-room)
High Frequency Drivers 0.75" (1.9cm) Titanium diaphragm compression driver mated to 90° x 60° Tractrix® Horn
HF X-over Freq 3200Hz
Mid Freqeuncy Drivers 4.5" (11.4cm) Aluminum diaphragm compression driver mated to 90° x 60° Tractrix® Horn
MF X-over Freq 500Hz
Low Frequency Drivers Three 9" (22.9cm) high-output, aluminum / Rohacell® / Kevlar® hybrid cone woofers
Finishes Zebrawood in Natural, Merlot or Espresso stain
Enclosure Type Bass-reflex via triple side-firing ports
Enclosure Material Constrained layer MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard)
Weight 165lbs (74.9kg)
Height 56" (142.2cm)
Width 12" (30.5cm) (14.5" / 36.8cm at the base)
Depth 24.75" (62.9cm)
Built From: 2008 -
===========================================================

bhagwan69
Inventar

#28 erstellt: 08. Feb 2008, 10:24

Thanks ALS.
Nice Details.

I really want to audition this speaker.
Hope to some day, in India i.e.

Arj
Inventar

#29 erstellt: 08. Feb 2008, 12:57

Cool..

wonder how much of Tech from the Jamo acquisition is flowing down to the klipsch line..especially with respect to cabinets etc..

superczar
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#30 erstellt: 20. Feb 2008, 15:12

Ummm..So I am halfway done

I got hold of a Marantz SR6200 AVR that feeds the front Pre-out to the Integrated PM-17 amplifier
(thus flipping to plain stereo is as easy as switching on source direct on the AVR)

I am also getting hold of a Polk DSW Pro 500 Sub that will be fed by the LFE on the AVR

The center is still an open question though I have been different models from Polk, Jamo and KEF but havent found anything to my liking that also tonally matches with the Phase Tech V12 (front floorstanders)

In addition, I am also dedicating one room as the AV room and am planning to move the entire setup there this weekend

The room is arnd 13.5 X 10.5 and the attached pic shows what we have in mind

The room has a hard tile floor and I'll be placing a rug in front of the floors

So any suggestions on the center and on the layout ?
and also on the planned layout of the room

[Beitrag von superczar am 20. Feb 2008, 15:15 bearbeitet]

Arj
Inventar

#31 erstellt: 20. Feb 2008, 16:08

Looks nice !' But is that to scale ?

Also would not the viewing/hearing distance be too small in this setup ? so with the front of the speaker being around 3.5 Feet away and the ear being 1 feet ways from teh back wall , you have an effective sound field of only around 6 feet. are you ok with that ?

superczar
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#32 erstellt: 20. Feb 2008, 16:17

Roughly to scale..The room dimensions are to scale...the distances are roughly so while the objects are not to scale

The soundfield is meant to be contained within the room so I am ok with the field being confined to the couch or in front of it

I'll have to do something else for house filling music in the main living room and the rest of the house but that'll be something built off existing spare stuff, and thats a different topiic altogether