Advice on Stereo speak and sub combo

Any specific reason for opting for a Sub rather than Full range speakers ?

I presume that this setup is for 2 Channel stereo or also for Home Theatre ?

one thing i have learnt from experience is that satisfaction is not exactly constant..and most probably you would be hoping you were in the market for a step up in the future and the only thing holding you back might be your current investment.

if you are sure that you are ok with a sub/standmount, it makes sense to get a good standmount for your 40K budget and then try and get a sub much later when you can allot a separate budget...with a decent standmount you will get enough extension as to be ok with out a sub untill you are sure you want to go for one. and a bad sub is worse than no sub !

A am sure you will not go wrong with a Quad..as per some earlier comments in the forum a Quad12 might also not be a bad idea to try out.

as long as you have above 50W dont worry about sensitivity and impedance..quads are not exactly tough loads. but do try them out with your jolidas to see if you like them...amp speaker synergy is important and is quite variable

Thx for the response guys.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Any specific reason for opting for a Sub rather than Full range speakers ? I presume that this setup is for 2 Channel stereo or also for Home Theatre ?

Well I had auditioned Jamo E and C series and wharfedale floor range speakers (don't remember the model numbers). I don't know if this describes it but felt that the sound was muddled. Even a D series jamo which was priced upwards of 1 lac was not quite as coherent as the Quad 11L or arita. Correct me if I am wrong but I also thought that a floorstander will be too big for the room size and difficult to layout.
Yes this is for a 2 channel stereo setup. For movies atleast for me anything is fine.

Arj schrieb:

one thing i have learnt from experience is that satisfaction is not exactly constant..and most probably you would be hoping you were in the market for a step up in the future and the only thing holding you back might be your current investment. if you are sure that you are ok with a sub/standmount, it makes sense to get a good standmount for your 40K budget and then try and get a sub much later when you can allot a separate budget...with a decent standmount you will get enough extension as to be ok with out a sub untill you are sure you want to go for one. and a bad sub is worse than no sub ! A am sure you will not go wrong with a Quad..as per some earlier comments in the forum a Quad12 might also not be a bad idea to try out. as long as you have above 50W dont worry about sensitivity and impedance..quads are not exactly tough loads. but do try them out with your jolidas to see if you like them...amp speaker synergy is important and is quite variable

I too was thinking along similar lines. Also the demo room was quite large in a smaller room I think the bottom end slam will be enough. The shopowner didn't had the Quad 12 on stock, probably will be able to audition it next weekend. BTW the guy who owned the place told me that the only diff between them is that 12L goes more low. Is that the only diff?

As long as you like the sound of the Quads, they are a good choice.

Since you are in Pune, I woyuld Heartily recommend the ( Now Discontinued ) CADENCE Floor Standing speakers. they are available, Refurbished from the Cadence Factoery, with Full Warranty at Rs 60 K .

I forget the speaker's name ( I have a VERY poor knowledge of Sanskrit )

Maybe Maneck or Deaf will chip in ? ( Deaf, I had borrowed these from you, to listen at my place )

These speakers are Very efficient, and have a strong mid bass. They Rock !

You have a Nice size room, and the Quads may fill it well. Not sure if a sub will work well with the Quads and yr room.

The Cadence Floor standing speakers ( the Refurb Model, NOT the current ones ) should be ideal in a 18 feet x 10 feet room.

PLEASE call Cadence and go over for a listen.

I don't know if this describes it but felt that the sound was muddled.

I guess that is boomy bass. It muddles up the over all clarity.

Impresses some for Home Theatre applications, but fotr Music ... stay away.

Often this can be remedied with just proper speaker placement, in a room.

I have seen Deaf perform his MAGIC...

I suppose you are referring to the Cadence diva speakers. All of their other floorstanders have electrostatic panels. Well they are beyond my budget even if I stretch it a bit. Regarding the boomy bass. I had the same experience at the place I auditioned quad with a pair of wharfedale floorstander.

prasen_b wrote:

I mostly listen to R&B, hip-hop, smooth jazz, hindi songs and anything which sounds melodious to me.

Arj wrote:

A am sure you will not go wrong with a Quad..as per some earlier comments in the forum a Quad12 might also not be a bad idea to try out.

Hi Prasen,
Just my humble 0.02 cents:

1. Quad is not an all-rounder by any stretch...so you could be disappointed when playing R&B, Rock, Hip-hop, electronica kind of music. But they excel in genres involving Vocals and Acoustic instruments i.e Jazz, Blues, classical types.

2. For around 35k, I would suggest you also look at Epos M12.2 and Energy RC-10. I have heard them both.....far better all-rounders.

3. Try to audition a Dynaudio Audience-52 as well. I have heard that their prices are now dropped to 45k (you can bargain further).

Please do try to listen to as many speakers as possible before buying one...its not easy to make amendments later (unless you are ready to blow another hole in your pocket) .

Cheers..
Happy Hunting.

P.S: These are all just my opinions hence please evaluate them at your disposal.

abhi.pani schrieb:

1. Quad is not an all-rounder by any stretch...so you could be disappointed when playing R&B, Rock, Hip-hop, electronica kind of music. But they excel in genres involving Vocals and Acoustic instruments i.e Jazz, Blues, classical types.

well to be honest abhi, Quad has never done it for me as well..but there are lots who like it a lot..

abhi.pani schrieb:

2. For around 35k, I would suggest you also look at Epos M12.2 and Energy RC-10. I have heard them both.....far better all-rounders.

Good Advice Abhi. prasen_b,The Epos are really good speakers..do try them if you get them in Pune. if you like Quad you may just like these a bit better.

abhi.pani schrieb:

3. Try to audition a Dynaudio Audience-52 as well. I have heard that their prices are now dropped to 45k (you can bargain further).

Abhi you are the Dyn Expert..do the Dyns mate well with Jolidas? if not the 52s the 42s definitely would fall into his price range

do the Dyns mate well with Jolidas? if not the 52s the 42s definitely would fall into his price range

Hi Arj,
I havent heard Jolidas till date. I just know that they are very smooth sounding amps.
As for Dyns, they really sounded well with Marantz, Arcam and Plinius....all these amps are more on the warmer side with good drive...Jolidas may do it as well. I was reading some reviews on 1501-RC and they seem to drive 4ohm loads pretty effortlessly so power should'nt be a concern. Dyns are more on transparent side so it often portrays whats on the amp...so if Prasen likes Jolida's sound, he should like the Dynes.

BTW, Audience-52 is a big step up from Audience-42, price difference being just around 5-6k, so I suggested A52.

Regards
Abhi

If you contact the distributor designer audio for quad 12L since it is a range which is now not in production, they are going for discounts....atleast that what I heard a couple of months ago...maybe he still has stocks.

12L speaker I really like a lot. You could also try out a used Arita which will being the prices down for you.


Manek.

[quote="abhi.pani"]
[quote]3. Try to audition a Dynaudio Audience-52 as well. I have heard that their prices are now dropped to 45k (you can bargain further).
[/quote]
I don't want to go beyond 35K for standmounts as I would also be adding a sub later on (around 15-20K). As far as my experience goes a subwoofer is a necessity for my type of music.

[quote="abhi.pani"]
2. For around 35k, I would suggest you also look at [b]Epos M12.2[/b] and Energy RC-10. I have heard them both.....far better all-rounders.[/quote]

Good Advice Abhi. prasen_b,The Epos are really good speakers..do try them if you get them in Pune. if you like Quad you may just like these a bit better.
[quote="abhi.pani"]
[/quote]
This I would definitely like to audition. Anyone on where I can audition it in pune or as a last option Mumbai.

[quote="Manek"]If you contact the distributor designer audio for quad 12L since it is a range which is now not in production, they are going for discounts....atleast that what I heard a couple of months ago...maybe he still has stocks.

12L speaker I really like a lot. You could also try out a used Arita which will being the prices down for you.


Manek.[/quote]
I initially tried for a used arita and talked to Mr dave of oceanic. But it seems nobody wants to sell them even when they upgrade. As for directly contacting the dealership I would give it a try. But will they take care of transportation. Also I am not sure whether I demoed 11L2 or 11L. Is there a major diff between the upgrades? Or between 12L and 11L.

The 12L is a speaker that i like immensely. i wouldn't agree with Abhi's views though about them not being able to perform in some genres...i say audition them before making up your mind.

The Dynes are a good recommendation. Try Moonitor Audio Bookshelves while you are at it. since you say your type of music needs a sub, i suspect the Tannoy mercury series(i wonder if they are still made) are excellent bass performers.

the 12Ls have been replaced by the 12L 2 and hence could be on clearance prices.

[quote="prasen_b"]
I don't want to go beyond 35K for standmounts as I would also be adding a sub later on (around 15-20K). As far as my experience goes a subwoofer is a necessity for my type of music.

/quote]

Prasen.. in that case you need a good sub and you definitely will not get that for 15K. again No subis better than a 1 tone sub that goes thump thump/Boom Boom. (Good subs in india may start at around 40K). a sub built for HT will not be good enough for audio though the converse may be true.

also it is very easy to confuse between [b]quality [/b]if bass and [b]quantity[/b].

not trying to be pedantic..just facts of audio life which have been learned at expense of some hard earned $$$.

makes more sense for you to put that budget in a standmount. the Dyn52 has a great extension paired with a tube amp..doubt if you will need a sub unless you are in a huge room. please listen to it if you can.

prasen_b wrote:

I don't want to go beyond 35K for standmounts as I would also be adding a sub later on (around 15-20K). As far as my experience goes a subwoofer is a necessity for my type of music.

Two things:
1. Whats the harm in listening to the Dyns ?? They were once sold at 70k in India and now the dealers have aggressively priced them at 45k (further negotiable). Listening to them will at least give you an idea of whats on offer for a little more money and whether you would miss it. Listening to more speakers will definitely train your ears to choose better speakers for yourself. Sonically, criteria for rejection is as important as criteria for selection.
At least get a taste of it, who knows you may actually dislike it or may even end up liking it so much that you may not want a sub .

2. You said:

I have decided to only stick to standmounts since in general I didn't like the floorstanders I auditioned in my price range or even above.

Could you please stress upon what exactly you dislike in floorstanders in the your budget (which is pretty much 55-60k, I suppose) ??
Was it Boomy/undefined bass or non-coherence among drivers, tonality issues...something else ??
I am just curious to know, what are the flaws that you are trying to address in floorstanders by going the sub-standmount route and how ?
If the problem statement is clear the solution will be far more focussed and accurate.

Regards
Abhi

[quote="Arj"][quote="prasen_b"]
I don't want to go beyond 35K for standmounts as I would also be adding a sub later on (around 15-20K). As far as my experience goes a subwoofer is a necessity for my type of music.

/quote]

Prasen.. in that case you need a good sub and you definitely will not get that for 15K. again No subis better than a 1 tone sub that goes thump thump/Boom Boom. (Good subs in india may start at around 40K). a sub built for HT will not be good enough for audio though the converse may be true.

also it is very easy to confuse between [b]quality [/b]if bass and [b]quantity[/b].

not trying to be pedantic..just facts of audio life which have been learned at expense of some hard earned $$$.

makes more sense for you to put that budget in a standmount. the Dyn52 has a great extension paired with a tube amp..doubt if you will need a sub unless you are in a huge room. please listen to it if you can.[/quote]
That is somewhat depressing. But I remember manek once writing about the sonodyne downfiring subwoofer available for around 22K. Anyways it seems I have to again rethink my strategy

[quote="abhi.pani"]prasen_b wrote:
[quote]I don't want to go beyond 35K for standmounts as I would also be adding a sub later on (around 15-20K). As far as my experience goes a subwoofer is a necessity for my type of music.
[/quote]

Two things:
1. Whats the harm in listening to the Dyns ?? They were once sold at 70k in India and now the dealers have aggressively priced them at 45k (further negotiable). Listening to them will at least give you an idea of whats on offer for a little more money and whether you would miss it. Listening to more speakers will definitely train your ears to choose better speakers for yourself. [b]Sonically[/b], criteria for rejection is as important as criteria for selection.
At least get a taste of it, who knows you may actually dislike it or may even end up liking it so much that you may not want a sub .

2. You said:
[quote]I have decided to only stick to standmounts since in general I didn't like the floorstanders I auditioned in my price range or even above.[/quote]

Could you please stress upon what exactly you dislike in floorstanders in the your budget (which is pretty much 55-60k, I suppose) ??
Was it Boomy/undefined bass or non-coherence among drivers, tonality issues...something else ??
I am just curious to know, what are the flaws that you are trying to address in floorstanders by going the sub-standmount route and how ?
If the problem statement is clear the solution will be far more focussed and accurate.

Regards
Abhi[/quote]
Well I never said I wouldn't audition them. There is only one dealer in pune who used to keep dynaudio [sound and vision]. But I am not sure about the price, will audition it in the weekend.
As far as floorstanders go there are two things that influenced by decision.
>> The room is not big (10 * 18) and combines with the dining space to form an L shape.
I would have to keep the equipment along the larger dimenion (18 feet) which ends where the dining space starts. So the distance betn the speaker and the listener would be around 8/9 feet. Wouldn't that be small for a floorstander.
>> I have auditioned only two floorstanders Jamo and wharfedale with their bookshelf models. As you have mentioned I found them less coherent [and with yes boomy bass] than the corresponding bookshelf. If I change my mind I would go for a better standmount rather than a floorstander.

Sorry about the incorrect quotes inclusion. The last post has become quite unreadable.

Hi Prasen,
What Arj has commented on cheap subs (yes 20k is highly insufficient for a musical sub) is exactly where I was coming from. If you think floors have non coherent sound and boomy bass...think again...are you assuming that integrating a sub with a BS is easy...its one of the toughest thing to implement in hi-end audio IMO. I am yet to see a system where its done right. Are you also assuming that subs give every tight-tuneful bass...naaaa...most subs I have heard churn out big thumps and thats all....well defined bass from sub is very very rare. Mostly it is slow, one note and kind of bloated unless you spend a good 40+k (even then, I doubt ).

Relatively getting a simple two way floorstander from brands like Dynaudio (A62, A72), Proac (Studio 120/130) would give you very coherent and tuneful all-round performance (even from a distance of 8-9 feet). This considering that you dont want to compromise on bass quantity at all.

You are at Pune, not very far from Mumbai....just one trip over and you can listen to most of the brands available in India.

i personally would go for a bookshelf +sub combo. I can sacrifice on the quality of bass a bit as long as the 300 - 7kHz range of frequencies are very good. For me the bass needs to be tight and as dynamic as possible. But for the most part, i can't bear to listen to speakers that don't extend low enough for the kind of music that i listen to. bookshelves bottom out very quickly. There is no substitute for a good 3 way design but those get real expensive. Floorstanding 2ways are decent but don't seem to satisfy me.

I know what most of you are thinking, saachi's become a basshead, but on the contrary i enjoy a good midrange more than anyhing else but the bass is still very very integral to the music and I like my bass strong and pronounced while not being overpowering.

however, i admit it would be tough to find such a bookshelf + sub combo in your price range. The dyn 52 is your best option for good all round performance. but wait, if you want some unconventional solution, then i suggest you look at Corrson's acoustic potrait's floorstanders.

Your primary listening includes R&B, Hip Hop, Hindi Music
You feel it is essential for him to have a Sub
You must have heard some setup like this that made you happy
Can you let us know the qualities or attributes of that setup which made you happy? If you can let us know, people will know where you come from and suggest a system that will make you happy.
Most guys on this forum are audiophiles and they crave for detailed bass, honey coated mid-range and clean highs and coherent sound etc…which is highly impractical with your budget.
Let us know what kind of sound makes you happy and we can help you choosing your gear.

square_wave schrieb:

Your primary listening includes R&B, Hip Hop, Hindi Music You feel it is essential for him to have a Sub You must have heard some setup like this that made you happy Can you let us know the qualities or attributes of that setup which made you happy? If you can let us know, people will know where you come from and suggest a system that will make you happy. Most guys on this forum are audiophiles and they crave for detailed bass, honey coated mid-range and clean highs and coherent sound etc…which is highly impractical with your budget. Let us know what kind of sound makes you happy and we can help you choosing your gear.

that's not a way to encourage people to get involved in hifi. nothing can't be done. everyone cannot have everything in a system. You compromise in some areas. that's the way things work. You decide on what is most critical to you and make some trade offs. Clearly he likes bass and there is nothing wrong with that.

Audiophiles make it a big deal if someone likes excessive bass. There is a whole genre called Drum n bass, breakbeat, what do you say to those guys? The music is just as mesmerizing and as much fun as Jazz or rock to me. the recording too is top notch. Of course they are listened to at different moods but they are all examples of good music.

just re read my post..kinda strong there and unwarranted...you put the same thing in nicer words...guess its time for me to sleep and stop getting cranky.

prasen_b schrieb:

[ That is somewhat depressing. But I remember manek once writing about the sonodyne downfiring subwoofer available for around 22K. Anyways it seems I have to again rethink my strategy

Only way to find out is to test it out..you can get enough info on the web on how to audition a sub for music.

I too remember that comment from Manek now. he has a good pair of ears and that definitely makes it a candidate.

i meant commercial /branded products for 40K..am sure you can get it done for less than 1/2 if you do it yourself from kits/designs available on the web.

I personally use a Sub + Stand mounts and every time i change the position and sometimes even a component need to re-integrate the sub back which takes me at least a week !

I am just being practical here Savyasachi.
What can guy who has a budget of 40k who obviously like bass and listens to Hip Hop and R&B which needs a nice rounded mid-bass thump to come alive buy ? Definitely not a lean detailed audiophile grade stand-mount. I am trying to see where he is coming from and what makes him happy.
Look at it this way. He won’t compromise on the amount of bass or volume. Compromising on quantity of bass and volume is the only way to getting quality at this budget and this is not going to happen (from what I gather from his posts). So what can be done within the constraints ? I am sure he is looking for a solution.
Unless he sees the truth and will compromise on some quantity of bass by buying a 35k stand-mount and put them on a 5k stand. What say ?

square_wave schrieb:

Your primary listening includes R&B, Hip Hop, Hindi Music You feel it is essential for him to have a Sub You must have heard some setup like this that made you happy Can you let us know the qualities or attributes of that setup which made you happy? If you can let us know, people will know where you come from and suggest a system that will make you happy. Most guys on this forum are audiophiles and they crave for detailed bass, honey coated mid-range and clean highs and coherent sound etc…which is highly impractical with your budget. Let us know what kind of sound makes you happy and we can help you choosing your gear.

I really liked the quad 11L and wharfedale SW150 sub setup. Also the lithos setup was good. When I compare this with cadence arita I see quite a diff in the bottom end. To be honest I was going to buy the aritas and then one fine day I heard some of the songs from amy winehouse album "back to black" with my panasonic headphones. Then I bought this CD from oceanic and thought lets see how it sounds with arita. I was disappointed and felt the bottom end was just not there and also felt that arita were not that good with this kind of music. I have made a point to hear the same cd in all the demoes, and with a sub it rocks my boat.

Prasen, if it rocks your boat and you are sure it will continue to rock your boat a year from now...nothing everyone else says really should matter as the most critical instrument is Your ears..one of the fundamental principles in audio!

what has been put above is learnings from others which may or may not be relevant for you..as you are the final judge !

..And as long as the decision you take has considered the above inputs and constraints i do not think you will regret your choice whatever it is !!

Hi Prasen,
I was expecting a reply like this from you.
The Arita is a fine stand-mount. One of the best you will find at that price point but you found that it does not rock your boat. But it is an audiophile grade speaker which offers lean detailed bass of limited extension and it will not give you pronounced / false bass. To get more bass extension, you will have to match it with a tuneful, high quality sub which will cost you a bomb. Most audiophiles are willing to accept this fact and will usually invest in the Arita and live with it and savor it’s mids and highs and whatever detailed bass it offers and later upgrade to a matching sub or a bigger speaker when money is available. Are you willing to do that ?
If not, you will have to invest in a 12-14k stand mount like the Morduant short or wharfedale 9.1 and invest in a 25k sub or a 40k floorstander and enjoy your music.

I have made a point to hear the same cd in all the demoes, and with a sub it rocks my boat.

Listen to it on good 2 way floorstanders as well....you would like it I suppose.
The floorstanders you have auditioned (Wharfdale and Jamo) are just okay kind of speakers...dont reject the whole category on that basis. You get pretty nice floorstanders beyond 40k.
Try listening to Monitor Audio, Kef (iQ series), Energy (RC series), Dynaudio, Dali...they all have decent floorstanding speakers in your budget. Would you want to listen to them ?

abhi.pani schrieb:

I have made a point to hear the same cd in all the demoes, and with a sub it rocks my boat. Listen to it on good 2 way floorstanders as well....you would like it I suppose. The floorstanders you have auditioned (Wharfdale and Jamo) are just okay kind of speakers...dont reject the whole category on that basis. You get pretty nice floorstanders beyond 40k. Try listening to Monitor Audio, Kef (iQ series), Energy (RC series), Dynaudio, Dali...they all have decent floorstanding speakers in your budget. Would you want to listen to them ?

bleh!..KEF (stop recommending them Abhi ). Dynes flrs in taht price range is nigh impossible. suggest acoustic potrait if you can audition them, else monitor audio FLRS. Still feel you would do better with the quad 11L + sub combo. Just my preference.

check out a used pair of Klipsch RF3s ..those might make you happy.

bleh!..KEF (stop recommending them Abhi )

They are good...

Dynes flrs in taht price range is nigh impossible.

Dynaudio Audience 62 is around 60k (negotiable).
Even the A72 can be had 75k odd...I know someone who was thinking of selling his 6months old A72...that should be in his budget.

check out a used pair of Klipsch RF3s ..those might make you happy.

Klipsch definitely need more space...but yes, he may like it...that too with a smooth amp like Jolida, it may actually kick a$$.

abhi.pani schrieb:

Klipsch definitely need more space...but yes, he may like it...that too with a smooth amp like Jolida, it may actually kick a$$.

Abhi, its a 10 x 18 room..that's more than enough space for the Klipsch to be happy in.

square_wave schrieb:

Hi Prasen, I was expecting a reply like this from you. The Arita is a fine stand-mount. One of the best you will find at that price point but you found that it does not rock your boat. But it is an audiophile grade speaker which offers lean detailed bass of limited extension and it will not give you pronounced / false bass. To get more bass extension, you will have to match it with a tuneful, high quality sub which will cost you a bomb. Most audiophiles are willing to accept this fact and will usually invest in the Arita and live with it and savor it’s mids and highs and whatever detailed bass it offers and later upgrade to a matching sub or a bigger speaker when money is available. Are you willing to do that ? If not, you will have to invest in a 12-14k stand mount like the Morduant short or wharfedale 9.1 and invest in a 25k sub or a 40k floorstander and enjoy your music.

I think I need to audition some more speakers. As of now only dali , dynaudio and psb floorstanders can be auditioned in pune. I would again audition arita. Going ahead with a nice standmount and adding the sub later on as u mentioned seems a better option. This way atleast I can enjoy what I can afford.

Savyasaachi schrieb:

abhi.pani schrieb: I have made a point to hear the same cd in all the demoes, and with a sub it rocks my boat. Listen to it on good 2 way floorstanders as well....you would like it I suppose. The floorstanders you have auditioned (Wharfdale and Jamo) are just okay kind of speakers...dont reject the whole category on that basis. You get pretty nice floorstanders beyond 40k. Try listening to Monitor Audio, Kef (iQ series), Energy (RC series), Dynaudio, Dali...they all have decent floorstanding speakers in your budget. Would you want to listen to them ? bleh!..KEF (stop recommending them Abhi ). Dynes flrs in taht price range is nigh impossible. suggest acoustic potrait if you can audition them, else monitor audio FLRS. Still feel you would do better with the quad 11L + sub combo. Just my preference. check out a used pair of Klipsch RF3s ..those might make you happy.

Yup.
I would rate the Acoustic Portrait above most of the mentioned budget floorstanding speakers. The proacs are above a lakh so cannot be considered.. For me, the AP’s will beat any audience series from dynaudio anyday. I have compared them side by side (aud 82, 52se, 42) with the same electronics couple of times. Comparison was done with high end as well as with budget electronics. The 82 is a loud speaker but musically / separation of instruments / bass detail / naturalness of sound etc… the AP wins hand down.
For my ears the new Kef speakers are quite bad.

Hi Prasen,
What is your opinion about the Lithos speakers ?
The (pro 10 + terra 150 sub) combo which you heard ? I think something like that may give you what you are looking for. I have never heard Lithos speakers but the designer talks a lot about the qualities of his subwoofer system. Q Balance, no listener fatigue etc…I have a gut feeling that his subs will be far better than the wharfedale subs or any other budget sub. His USP is his success in integrating his stand-mounts to his subs. I feel his solutions may work for you better than any other in this budget. Just a gut feeling because you don’t want to compromise on your BASS, you may want to listen and see.
Anyone heard this one from Lithos ?
Kontra
http://www.lithosindia.com/prod-kontra.html

The lithos setup was good but I felt that the sub was not integrating well (compared to the quad 11L and sw150 sub) with the standmounts (pro 10). But I auditioned it in a typical room no acoustic treatement at all. Quad 11L is way better than the pro 10. Even at lesser volume the quad have a presence that I have not found in any standmount speaker I have auditioned till now. I was interested in AP but auditioning is only possible if somebody has it in pune.

Prasen

I was in a similar position as you some months back. Except that I was not looking for a sub.
My choices of speakers were - Arita, ProAC Studio 110, Dyn 52 and Epos 12.2
I chose the 12.2 over all the above, I thot it was the biggest bang for the buck. In other words, the incrememtnal musicality i was getting out of arita and studio 110 did not justify the price premium it commanded over 12.2.
Having said that, I am wonderfully happy with the Epos. After opening up - breaking in, it goes wonderfully down on the lows for a bookshelf and personally for music I am fine with that. Mid ranges and top are very smooth and beautifully easy on the ears.

Question to all - Musical sub - which one digs you the most (midrange budget)

For me, the AP’s will beat any audience series from dynaudio anyday. I have compared them side by side (aud 82, 52se, 42) with the same electronics couple of times.

Two things again:
1. Comparing floorstanders(AP) to Standmounts (A42, 52SE) is the last thing I would do. They are different categories and you definitely can belong to any one of them or to both of them. I know people who love the bass from floorstanders so much so that they would prefer a 50k floorstander over a 200k BS. And then there are poeple who would go with a 200k BS over a 250k floorstander. Yes, musicality is subjective and you are free to like a particular speaker but saying that X floorstander beats Y standmount (price point being similar) or the other way round is baseless to me.

2. The place where you have listened to all the Dyns you have mentioned is miserable for auditioning...I mean Prithvi's place. Even Prithvi would agree that with such space crunch and multiple speakers lying around in a small cubicle size listening area is not where Dynes should be auditioned. Dont be mistaken...I am not getting into dealer bashing but you cannot judge the potential of such high quality speakers in those environments and pass on a conclusion. To tell you the truth, I have never found a soundstage there...very little imaging as well. You dont like Dynes, thats perfectly fine but be fair do admit that you havent heard the speakers in a proper environment...that would give better guidance to newbies.
I have heard the APs at multiple places and with amps like Plinius SA-102 (you know where) and I like them....but to me they dont do anything special but they neither flaw all that much for the price.

P.S: I never liked the Audience 82 as well, but I havent heard it with the correct electronics so no comments.

The proacs are above a lakh so cannot be considered..

Proac Tablettes, Studio 100, Studio 110 are all in the range of 60-70k odd. BTW, how do you compare AP and these Proac bookshelves..your comments would be enlightening.

For my ears the new Kef speakers are quite bad.

Which models are you talking about ?

Question to all - Musical sub - which one digs you the most (midrange budget)

Deftech Prosub-1000 (latest model) for 32k.

prasen, I feel you should go with what you like.
You've already auditioned few combos & liked Quad + Wharfs Sub combo. Wharfedale SW series Subs are good for music also. If I'm not wrong, their SW series are designed by the guy who desigend Quad Subs, hence it should gel well with Quad BSs. DONT GO by some subjective opinions like one speaker brand beats another brand down or one cable will've another for breakfast, dinner etc..

Dyne's Aud series may be their basic models, but they are good speakers in that price bracket. About BSs, if you get an oppurtunity try to audition Aud52, Epos12.2 & Dalis.

Musical sub - which one digs you the most (midrange budget)

Try Wharfedale SW series SW150. You should get it for around 17k. Even Deftech Prosub1000 is not bad, they cost 25k.

I would rate the Acoustic Portrait above most of the mentioned budget floorstanding speakers

How AP are priced? Are they not budget floorstanding speakers?

The 82 is a loud speaker but musically / separation of instruments / bass detail / naturalness of sound etc… the AP wins hand down.

What electronics you used to compare/evaluate Aud82?. Just for curious, certainly not for argument sake. IMO they are honest speakers, but not great compared to more expensive ones.

What electronics you used to compare/evaluate Aud82?. Just for curious, certainly not for argument sake. IMO they are honest speakers, but not great compared to more expensive ones.

Aud-82 needs high quality amplification with lots of power. Integrated amps rated at 100-200 watts are like peanuts for these giants. The only amp I found these speakers dancing on was the Krell KAV-2250 with 500 watts per channel. They also need a lot of space to breathe. But I didnt like the krell-dyne combo on that occasion.

prasen, I feel you should go with what you like.

Exactly, no one can take it away from you. And dont get disturbed by arguments among audiophiles, it will always happen but you need to dig the data thats relevant for you among those discussions/arguments.

Where can I audition Epos and Energy speakers in Mumbai? Please mention all the dealers you know about.

for Enery you can contact
Rivera International Pvt.Ltd.
Office No 7, 397 A-1B, Mangaldas House,
Naaz Cinema compound, Lamington Road,
Grant Road (E) Mumbai-04
Telephone . +91- 022- 385 7022 / 380 0555 / 380 0777
Email: riverainternational@gmail.com

OK,...just so you know how much i recommend the Def Tech sub..i just bought another one for myself.

I sure did miss the one I had back home ..so couldn't resist it any longer.

I just came across a thread by suhas mentioning Acoustic Image speakers available in pune. I can stretch my budget a bit so what's the general opinion on this speakers. I was also wondering why no one mentioned those before. As I have mentioned earlier I don't know about many speaker dealers in pune, so if anybody knows of any such dealer please let me know.

So finally stretched my budget and bought the dynaudio audience 52. Initial impressions were good. However the bass is not tight and there is some listening fatigue after an hour or two. I guess this will improve with break-in and proper stands. One more thing is that the jolida amp freezed (no output, had to reset it) once after about one hour of listening at abt 8 clock position and in between increase to 9'0 clock position. And the fuse in the house was almost blown when I went near the 10 clock position, though nothing happened to the amp, I almost had a heart attack, but the amp started working on a different socket. I had increased the volume to that level when I auditioned it with the speakers (they were broken-in) and for the whole audition it was around the 9 clock position. Is it that new speakers which have not broken-in draw more current?

prasen_b schrieb:

So finally stretched my budget and bought the dynaudio audience 52.

Congratulations Dude....
Good choice in the end .

Initial impressions were good. However the bass is not tight and there is some listening fatigue after an hour or two. I guess this will improve with break-in and proper stands.

Dyns require at least 200 hours to break-in. Though you will start noticing differences after 50 hours. BTW, dont worry, break-in will solve all your problems (fatigue, loose bass et al).

One more thing is that the jolida amp freezed (no output, had to reset it) once after about one hour of listening at abt 8 clock position and in between increase to 9'0 clock position. And the fuse in the house was almost blown when I went near the 10 clock position, though nothing happened to the amp, I almost had a heart attack, but the amp started working on a different socket. I had increased the volume to that level when I auditioned it with the speakers (they were broken-in) and for the whole audition it was around the 9 clock position. Is it that new speakers which have not broken-in draw more current?

Thats scary..... .
But its nothing to do with speaker break-in.
If it happens again you should get the power point at your house checked. Thats the only thing I can guess (since you say that you have extensively auditioned the amp)....btw did you audition the same piece of the amp or was it a different demo piece that you auditioned ?

Wow, what kind of power protection/condition is in use? Sounds like its not doing its job.

The amp with which I auditioned was my own. And I have used it with the aritas too with pretty loud volumes. Never had any problems. I don't use a power conditioner or protector. I live in a rented place so no use getting things fixed, have decided to stick to lower volumes, anyways even 9'o clock position is pretty loud. Right now male voices sound very good specially deep voices.

How come you shifted from an Arita to a dynaudio audience series speaker? Just curious.
What Jolida amp do you have ?