Needing some vinyl advice and help.

i am a novice too and had considered turning over to the dar side (or bright side..whatever). basically there are 2 views from how I have been adviced from quite a few folks.

i. Majority of the LPs you play to spin are the oldies and used: dont buy any of the newer TT/Carts as they are very detailed and may be an overkill for it. so the Linn/Rega/Garard etc etc would be really cool.
ii. Majority are the newer pressings which you have/plan to buy: while the Linns and the Regas would still be good, you can do a lot more with the newer Rigs like Clearaudio/ VPI/ Scheu...and other brands.


I am still confused whether i can manage a TT as
1. Isolation: 10 times more important than for a CD transport..$$$
2. TT consists pf the TT, Tonearm, Cartridge and Phono Pre...and all permutation combinations and tweaks can impact the sound and drain you of $$$
3. Maintainance of LPs :to get the best sound you need to clean ti before use, cannot replay too many times as it would damage the LP and cannot choose individual tracks
4. I cannot stand the hiss/crackle and Pops

But in spite of the the sound is supposed to be worth it...

Since I dont have any old LPs and for the money i would need to spend on the newer ones i could really get myself a Super HDD based setup..so I am not progressing although still harbor the secret desire that an old relative will leave me with lots of Old LPs and one of the above TTs

Sachi, my experience with TTs have been just on and off. I cannot say I have listened to many TTs or have a lot of experience, far from it, at least compared to CDPs.

All I can say that the best sound I ever heard from a TT was a Linn LP12, the Tonearm and Cartridge was some average Rega stuff.

Other than the Linn I have heard an SME, SOTA, Clearaudio and few more in Spore (the brands I dont remember). But nothing sounded as musical as the Linn.

Savyasaachi schrieb:

Am at those croossroads again where am looking into getting a vinyl rig. What is a good beginner turtable? I was planning on DIying a phono preamp..possibly the aikido or the pass pearl. For the table i am at a loss...is the Linn LP12 any good..I doon't know if i can buy it just yet, but a used onee turned up for about 1000USD with a valhalls PSu ( no idea what this is),, RB300 arm and an ortofon Om30 cartridge.. High possibility that I might be able to buy it soon enough for aomeone else to snap this up. Nevertheless I would like to learn about vinyl rigs and how to go about getting/setting one up..and importantly the costs involved and the essential must haves for a vinyl rig.so let us have it you geniuses. 8)

Savya, there's a lot to spinning vinyl than what meets the eyes. Arjun has referred to the "obstacles" that would need to be surrmounted & it can get very hairy indeed. It's tweakers heaven, if I may say so.

The best starter TT I think is the Music Hall MMF2 or MMF5. It's as plug & play as they get. I used to own an MMF5 so I should know. The default Goldring MM cartridges it used to come w/ are pretty darn good. The cousin to the MMF series are the Pro-ject TTs.

The Linn Sondek is a very good SUSPENDED TT. If you know how to setup a suspended TT, go for it. OR, suffer the losses as you learn how to set it up correctly. The Linn tonearms themselves are very good matches for their TT & so are the Rega tonearms.
I'm not crazy about those series of Ortofon cartridges (the more recent ones are way better but also -w-a-y- more expensive) but if the Linn TT is coming w/ the Ortofon as a package deal, it will do just fine.

I won't even try to get into phono preamps......

Bombaywalla, what would be a good starter phono preamp in your opinion. Something that does justice the MMF5 and overall plays well compared to a good digital rig.

way to go abhi....

Arj schrieb:

way to go abhi.... :KR

just increasing my knowledge base arj..

abhi.pani schrieb:

Bombaywalla, what would be a good starter phono preamp in your opinion. Something that does justice the MMF5 and overall plays well compared to a good digital rig.

hmmmmmmmmm..............

Abhi, there might be a contradiction in your question: a good starter phono preamp and plays well compared to a good digital rig. A good digital rig can play quite well if setup correctly hence one would have to spend quite a bit to surpass such a rig.
From whatever little I know about phono preamps some of my (personal) recommendations are
* the venerable Creek OBH-15 & OBH-18 units.
* the Music Hall PA 1.2
* the well regarded NAD PP-2i & PP-3i unit
* if you feel that your pocketbook can sustain it then the Goldenote (used to be called Bluenote) Pamphili unit is very analog-y sounding: musical yet detailed. If the cost is too much then their next lower phono preamp - the Phono2 is also very good. NOTE that both the Phono2 & Pamphili use a heavily choke-regulated supply which is a very good thing to supress power supply ripple for the circuitry processing the low amplitude phono signal.


<<< don't know why this got posted twicee??? Disregard this post & read the next one. Thanx. >>>>

abhi.pani schrieb:

Bombaywalla, what would be a good starter phono preamp in your opinion. Something that does justice the MMF5 and overall plays well compared to a good digital rig.

hmmmmmmmmm..............

Abhi, there might be a contradiction in your question: a good starter phono preamp and plays well compared to a good digital rig. A good digital rig can play quite well if setup correctly hence one would have to spend quite a bit to surpass such a rig. So, I do not know if such a unit exists or not.
From whatever little I know about phono preamps some of my (personal) recommendations are
* the venerable Creek OBH-15 & OBH-18 units. The OBH-8 is the older model which is still very well regarded & the main-stay of many a starter vinyl rig.
* the Music Hall PA 1.2, which should be a very good match for a MMF TT.
* the well regarded NAD PP-2i & PP-3i unit, which have been around a -l-o-n-g- time.
* if you feel that your pocketbook can sustain it then the Goldenote (used to be called Bluenote) Pamphili unit is very analog-y sounding: musical yet detailed. If the cost is too much then their next lower phono preamp - the Phono2 is also very good. NOTE that both the Phono2 & Pamphili use a heavily choke-regulated supply which is a very good thing to supress power supply ripple for the circuitry processing the low amplitude phono signal.

hope that this answers your question, Abhi.
(stop snickering in the background, Arj! )

bombaywalla schrieb:

just increasing my knowledge base arj..

I see Shelf Space also increasing.... ..its called new relationship on the rebound (Since you have just sold off your dac)

BTW Viren makes a very good Tube based Phonostage..so that is too a good option

bombaywalla schrieb:

.... (stop snickering in the background, Arj! )

did not realize i was being so loud

bombaywalla schrieb:

abhi.pani schrieb: Bombaywalla, what would be a good starter phono preamp in your opinion. Something that does justice the MMF5 and overall plays well compared to a good digital rig. hmmmmmmmmm.............. Abhi, there might be a contradiction in your question: a good starter phono preamp and plays well compared to a good digital rig. A good digital rig can play quite well if setup correctly hence one would have to spend quite a bit to surpass such a rig. So, I do not know if such a unit exists or not. From whatever little I know about phono preamps some of my (personal) recommendations are * the venerable Creek OBH-15 & OBH-18 units. The OBH-8 is the older model which is still very well regarded & the main-stay of many a starter vinyl rig. * the Music Hall PA 1.2, which should be a very good match for a MMF TT. * the well regarded NAD PP-2i & PP-3i unit, which have been around a -l-o-n-g- time. * if you feel that your pocketbook can sustain it then the Goldenote (used to be called Bluenote) Pamphili unit is very analog-y sounding: musical yet detailed. If the cost is too much then their next lower phono preamp - the Phono2 is also very good. NOTE that both the Phono2 & Pamphili use a heavily choke-regulated supply which is a very good thing to supress power supply ripple for the circuitry processing the low amplitude phono signal. hope that this answers your question, Abhi. (stop snickering in the background, Arj! )

Abhi, please don't disregard the ProJect phono pre. Their tube based Tube Box is a decent starter phono pre.

I fully agree with Shahrukh, .....and its available here in India....and... its decently priced....

Project even has a Phono Pre with a USB output, for direct recording from the TT to HDD...

yes, the Pro-Ject phono pre should also be a very good starter unit. I have no inside knowledge of this unit hence I did not put it down in my list in my earlier post. Looks like Shahrukh & Amp_Nut know a lot more about it & endorse it so that's a good sign.
Pro-ject TTs are very highly regarded (made in the same factory as Music Halls - atleast used to be) so, as an extension, their phono stage should also be a good starter unit (tho' this is not always the case).


hopefully Abhi's knowledge base has increased a little more now....

I would like to bring to notice few points regarding TT isolations. In Indian conditions turntable isolation takes different perspective due to nature of our basic building construction.

Most of us have solid concerete floor to start with. Those on ground floor will find it easy.

A stable table to support your table can be placed sufficiently away from the speakers to reduce direct excitation by them.

A Non suspended player placed on such a table can perform far better than most of the inferior suspended designs.

Project do have a wide range of TT and Phonostages to start the spiralling journey on Vinyl disc.

I have used their Phono Box SE as well as Tube Box SE. Both are very good starting blocks, Tube box can be exteneded little futher up.

The Speed Box is another one that will open up a new area to TT users. It will sure change your listening pleasure to new heights exp. if you are in area fed by poor quality power.

Now all that is left are the collection of black discs.

ani schrieb:

Tube box can be exteneded little futher up.

By this, do you mean rolling the tubes?

ani wrote: Tube box can be exteneded little futher up. By this, do you mean rolling the tubes?

Tube box can be used in midfi level too.

ani schrieb:

ani wrote: Tube box can be exteneded little futher up. By this, do you mean rolling the tubes? Tube box can be used in midfi level too.

Ach, I *think* that I understand what Anil meant to write in the 1st place - I *think* that he meant that the Pro-Ject Tube box is good enough for one to carry forward in one's rig even as the other components are upgrded because the Tube Box itself will (according to him) hold its ground.

Shahrukh, yes, I would imagine that you could tweak its sonics by tube rolling the 12AX7 tubes. So, tube rolling in addition to potential having this unit long-term (per Anil).

bombaywalla schrieb:

ani schrieb: ani wrote: Tube box can be exteneded little futher up. By this, do you mean rolling the tubes? Tube box can be used in midfi level too. Ach, I *think* that I understand what Anil meant to write in the 1st place - I *think* that he meant that the Pro-Ject Tube box is good enough for one to carry forward in one's rig even as the other components are upgrded because the Tube Box itself will (according to him) hold its ground. Shahrukh, yes, I would imagine that you could tweak its sonics by tube rolling the 12AX7 tubes. So, tube rolling in addition to potential having this unit long-term (per Anil).

Well that's good news to me cos I sold off my entire vinyl rig but kept the Tube Box 2.

Thank you all for the answers so far. I am torn between buying a Stax O2 MK1 headphones and the Linn LP12 that's on sale locally. Apparently another one popped up on the same website., comes with a lustre arm which looks gorgeous.

Anyways, I am reading this thread just not been able to respond since i've been away in San Francisco this past weekend and just got on the second week on my new job.

I might put away the purchase till i move to a new place, preferably closer to work, no room mates and most importantly NOT an apartment so i can finally get back to speakers and have a garage to park my motorcycle and car in.

Bombaywalla, how is the Pass pearl phono in the world of preamps?

I am torn between buying a Stax O2 MK1 headphones and the Linn LP12

Have you HEARD the STAX 'EarSpeakers' ?

The sound is Very different - Rather 'Light' and not to everyone's taste... even though that is not what the reviewers will say

yes i have on multiple occasions. i have the 404s on extended loan from a local friend and the SR-003s from another friend in Denver. I do agree that they do feel light in comparison. The O2 however gets closest to the ortho sound that i like while bringing the lightnness and airiness ot the table as well.

But the older Mk1 SR-007 still cost about 1.4k USD.

FWIW,,,, I still have my STAX SRS-2020 Basic System II for sale, at a VERY attractive price. Auditions welcome ..

Savyasaachi schrieb:

Thank you all for the answers so far. I am torn between buying a Stax O2 MK1 headphones and the Linn LP12 that's on sale locally. Apparently another one popped up on the same website., comes with a lustre arm which looks gorgeous. Anyways, I am reading this thread just not been able to respond since i've been away in San Francisco this past weekend and just got on the second week on my new job. I might put away the purchase till i move to a new place, preferably closer to work, no room mates and most importantly NOT an apartment so i can finally get back to speakers and have a garage to park my motorcycle and car in. Bombaywalla, how is the Pass pearl phono in the world of preamps?

Savya,
The Pass Pearl is supposed to be a very good phono stage per what I have read but I have no personal experience with it so I cannot comment in more details.

ok..i'll just go ahead and build one then. ALso looking at the Aikido phono stage as another option. I am quite close to makiung an impulse purchase on the rega RB300 arm based Linn LP12

are you sure you want an LP 12..that along with the Garrad are overpriced in the market today ?
try to get used Thorens 124/ Lenco L75/78 and tweak the hell out of it.. just google for more info.

really interesting read here
http://www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Tables.html

Well, I can get this LP12 for about 900$.

There is this THorens TD125 Mk1 avilable locally as well for 450. I have met this person before and he is a serious audiophile, lots of nice equipment and he knows his stuff.

What do you guys suggest?

oops..here are the links


LP12..its there under current inventory -> turntables ..listed at 975 but i know i can talk him down to 900.

http://www.echohifi.com/

Thorens
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ele/2064024070.html

My view, Go for the Thoren and if possible the DL103 cartridge as well !
for some additional money later you can put together a great plinth, although the current one is also good.

the RB300 on the Linn is what is really good.(dont know too much about tonearms)

you can google on TD 124 tweaks for loads of info.

BTW I got myself a Lenco L75 .

Nice!!..well am going to go audition both the thorens and the linn this saturday..assuming it doesn't snow or ice up. Its a balmy -8/9 deg C here tonight

A friend-of-a-friend has a Thorens TD 166 Mk II TurnTable for sale.

Its a suspended Sub-chassis design, in good condition, though the Plastic Cover / lid needs to be buffed.

It has recently been fitted with an Ortofon Om 5e MM cartridge.

Expected Price with the (almost new ) Otofon cartridge is well below Rs 20K.

Anyone interested, please PM me for Contact details.

nice buy above...
BTW is anyone interested in a steam powered TT
http://blog.makezine...d_record_player.html

The Steam TT is REALLY neat... I WANT ONE ... even though the Signal To Noise Ratio is less than ideal

But look at the bright side... the steam could clean records of all the grunge settled in the grooves...

gah..life has a way of butting in ..moving closer to work. Renting out a all for myself end of this month, now need to furnish up the place soooo.. bought some new toys in the guise of a ps3 and 46" LCD..

Also lately,.have put on less than 2 hours on my rig for the whole month. most of my listening has been during commute listening to classical music!! haha..I might just pass on the vinyl stuff for a bit as I am just not feeling it on the audio front. i am feeling somewhat burned out about the whole thing..

you have to take audio abstainance once in a while...Pure music with no equipment thoughts often helps