New system

you said a power amp....what about your pre-amp or is it a integrated amp ?

Wadia Cd players are great but the company always seems to be in debt...bad financial standing....krell ofcourse has a pedigree now so it should be good.

Totem forest speakers....haven't heard them yet but keeping them 12 feet apart may make a few gaps and holes in the sound staging....other than that the speaker cable lengths may be a bit too long for my liking...

The Wadia 302 has a inbuilt pre amp. Will it really make a difference if one of the speakers is only 4 feet away and the other about 10 feet away? Sounds wrong to me in principle but it would make a very slight difference or am I totally wrong. Thanks for the advice Manek.

cheraz....I'm sorry to say ...you are wrong...it will make a hell of a difference....try to keep it in that part of the room where the back wall and the side walls are equidistant from both speakers.

Once you get the system then you will need to fiddle faddle with the positioning of the speakers anyways....to get it dead right.

Now I am totally confused. I just don`t have a wall where I can position these speakers. By the way are you a Zorastrian? Manek sounds very Zorastrian. Hope you don`t mind the questioning. Anyways, I thing let the system come and that will sort out I guess.
Thanks for everything Manek.I will from time to time be talking to you. This is a really great forum. Cheers again.

yes Cheraz....Zoarastrian
Live in Bombay. How about you ?

Me too. I live in Bangalore but am presently in Bombay till the kids holidays end on Jan 4th. Too Cool. Maybe we could hook up. A friend Zubin recently bought a most mind blowing system Krell KPS 25SC cd player, Krell FPB 650MC Power Amp, Martin Logan Prodigy. The speakers have run only about 80-100 hrs and have yet to run in but they are just fabulous. Let me know if you want to hear this system. Cheeers buddy.

thanks a ton buddy....but I will be off with the wife from tomorrow. wont come back to bombay until the 4th. Maybe when I get to bangalore, we can hook up and hear your system. i do get around to bangalore a few times a year on work.

By the way, I have heard the martin logans. They are good. I personally prefer the cadence electrostatic speakers on sound and price, especially becuase they sound delightfull when driven by a valve amp and they are the only electrostats which can be driven with a valve amp comfortably. I intend to buy them in the near future.

Happy Holidays.

hey cheraz...are you buying the system in India or someone is bringing it into india for you ?

I am trying to get it from Kuwait or Dubai. Do you know anyone who could do that? Please let me know. What do you say about buying a second hand system in India? Maybe I don`t get exactly what I want but could pick it up for a bargin.

cheraz....
krell and wadia are available in bombay/delhi but are kind of expensive. totem forest dealers are not in india as far as i know.
what kind of music do you listen to ? how big is your listening area ? whats your budget like ? i can help you source extremely good components here in india/bangalore and with a warranty. Why go thru the trouble of getting things from kuwait and dubai when good/genuine stuff is available in your own backyard and with manufacturers warranties.

I personally feel buying secondhand stuff is not a good idea at all. You never know where the stuff has been or how it is handled.

have you set your heart on wadia, krell and totem or you are open to other equally good or better brands as well ? let me know.

Hey!
At first you should check where you can listen to the components you want to buy! Best would be to hear all together!

I am pretty sold on the krell Amp. About the other stuff I am open. I have quite a big listening area (35'0" x 25'0"). I listen to mainly rock of the `70s and some jazz. But my wife would definately corrupt the system with some pop and hindi music. I have a budget of $5500 for my entire system. And please I would love any inputs from you about any altenative system.

Ok cheraz....here goes,
The krell can be bought in india too(lakozy electronics mumbai) or can be brought in from overseas since you are sold on the amp

There are excellent alternative cd-players in the market like rega, arcam, nad silver series, marantz, denon, wadia etc. I would suggest denon,nad silver series as they are more suitable for rock. Marantz gives a smooth, soft, melow, clear sound but is definately my first preference.

Speakers, there are dime a dozen to choose from, dynaudio, cadence, martin logan, magnepan, B&W, JAMO, QUAD, JBL, Infinity, Dali, Monitor audio, etc. Since rock is your primary preference I suggest B&W, Infinity, Monitor, Jamo Quad.
B&W 603 S3, 604 S3,CM4, 704.
Infinity Alpha 40, aplha 50, kappa 400, kappa 600
Monitor Audio S6, S8, S10
Jamo D670
QUAD 22L
Dynaudio -lakozy bombay

For denon and Jamo hop into any Cinebels shop in Bangalore.
Denon and Kef sold at PRO FX shops in Bangalore
B&W is sold at any LG/Onkyo/B&W showroom
Infinity at FX audio
Quad check designer audio(mumbai) http://www.designer-audio.com/ website for bangalore dealer.
Marantz and Monitor Audio - www.novaudio.com distributor for india

I suggest you do a detailed study of the above and listen to the products carefully before you make a decision. Any other help you need...I'm always there.

sorry...that jamo speaker is D590 and not what I wrote earlier...

I heard the Jamo speakers and they sound quite good. What would you say to using a good Denon cd player (755) with a Rotel integrated Amp and the D 590 speakers. Are Denon cd players good?

Hi Cheraz,

Did you hear the D 870 also ? if not please do. They cost 1.60lacs but are amazing if you have the budget.

I dont like rotel personally. I find them too grainy on the mids and highs though they do pack a punch.
I would rather you bought Arcam or NAD pre-power combo. Denon CD players are good but prefer Arcam and NAD once again or marantz.

Please also hear the Cadence Arita/Arista Hybrid Electrostat Speakers. They cost 1.20 lacs and above but are very high end, mind blowing is the word for them. But since you listen to rock you may prefer the D590. One must also choose the right amp for the speakers so I suggest pick on a set of speakers and then we can pick the right amp and the source to go with it.

I dont know how much you want to spend in Indian rupees but if you can give an idea or even a breakup (cd+amp+speakers)then I can help you better.

Manek, I am presently renovating my new house and so my budget for the music system seem to shrink by the hour. Ha ha! Lets just say that I go for the D590. What kind of amp and speakers would suit? I would want to spend about Rs2.0- 2.5 lakhs totally. Supposing I go for the Krell 2250 power amp which is costing me 1.6 lakhs, the D590 speakers which are costing about Rs.60,000 then I am left with about Rs 30,000 for a cd player with preamp. Can you suggest anything? Or would you say something totally different like I am wrong about the Krell? Please advice as I am getting more and more confused.

I thought D590 were 80k and D570 were 60k. You forgot cables. One should keep 10% of your total budget on cables.

Your amp seems to be taking most of your budget. Its a little wierd to buy 1.6 lac power amp with 60-80k speakers and keep 30k for cd player and pre-map....
Electronics keep changing very often but good speaker designs dont change that much.

SO speakers one must buy with log term ownership in mind and the D 590 seem to be a good choice with a 5 yr warranty, not much to worry about. Cadence Diva speakers would be a very good choice too as they cost 60K. Let me know if you want to hear them, I can find out a cadence dealer in bangalore for ya or I can put you in touch with the cadence people directly. I know them.

One must buy electronics that match and buying an amp and CD from the same manufacturer is always a wise choice. Since you are sold on krell I would recommend you use a good krell integrated amp like KAV 400xi and KAV 300iL. This way you would get krell and both pre and power in the same box. If you go for the D590, krell would be good as the D590 have a 4 ohms impedence and would need a strong amp to drive them. If you choose the Cadence Diva then krell would be great and would open up other amp options as well since they are 8 ohms. Make sure the integrated costs less than 1.6 lacs. You should put 1 lac max in the amplifier components. I believ one of the above krell integrateds sell at approx 1.0lacs.

This leaves us with the CD player....with an amp like krell you need good accessories so a 10k cd player wont do at all. A Krell CDP would cost an arm and a leg. Something on the lines of NAD 541i, NAD 542 should be the bare minimum, costing about 25k-35K. Arcam CD73 is another very good CD player. The all india distributor of Arcam is Cadence Audio.

This way we have about 20-25k for good cables and connectors like Kimber Kable or Van den Hul which would make a hell of a diff if you use high resolution equipment like Krell.

This would be my POA if I were you. You could also e-mail me on mcpardiwalla@yahoo.com if you want to.

Manek

What the hell is "lac"???

Lac or Lakh is a term we in India use to mean a hundred thousand, Webon. Now Manek, as you mentioned the krell 400xi and Jamo D590 seem to fit in,which leaves me with the question on the cd player. Does`nt krell make a cheaper cd player? Now the prices I had quoted to you are the prices in Dubai plus freight and customs.

Price in Dubai minus freight and custom
Krell 400xi - Rs. 1,10,000
Jamo D 590 - Rs. 48,000

Add freight & Customs of about 20% and you are left with about Rs. 50,000 for the cd player and Rs. 20,000 for cables. Now you have a clear picture. 50k for a cd player is enough I guess. About the cadence.... Electrostats are a bother to maintain and I don`t think I have the paitence for that so I think I will give the Cadence a skip.
How much would the Arcam CD73 cost in India? and would it match with the Amp and Speakers I have selected?

Lac or Lakh is a term we in India use to mean a hundred thousand, Webon. Now Manek, as you mentioned the krell 400xi and Jamo D590 seem to fit in,which leaves me with the question on the cd player. Does`nt krell make a cheaper cd player? Now the prices I had quoted to you are the prices in Dubai plus freight and customs.

Price in Dubai minus freight and custom
Krell 400xi - Rs. 1,10,000
Jamo D 590 - Rs. 48,000

Add freight & Customs of about 20% and you are left with about Rs. 50,000 for the cd player and Rs. 20,000 for cables. Now you have a clear picture. 50k for a cd player is enough I guess. About the cadence.... Electrostats are a bother to maintain and I don`t think I have the paitence for that so I think I will give the Cadence a skip.
How much would the Arcam CD73 cost in India? and would it match with the Amp and Speakers I have selected?

How would you compare the 400xi to the Arcam A90?

And also how would the TOTEM Forest compare to the Jamo`s D590. And the Arcam CD82 to the NAD 542?

Arcam Cd72 is very very good....no complaints there....any arcam Cd player is very very good.
Mind you, getting stuff from abroad will give you no warranties....to me personally warranties are very very important.
By the way cadence electrostats are not difficult to maintain,,moisture does not affect them. Cadence Diva is a dynamic speaker(normal two way) and not an electrostat so you could hear that too.

Cant compare totem forst to D590...two different types of speakers....d590 is a 3 way, has a bottom firing woofer with two mids and a tweeter in D'Appolito. Totem forest is a two way two driver cabinet with a dynaudio mid/bass. for your kind of music the D590 may be better. since you mention that you have a rather large listening area....D590 would be a better choice.

NAD 542 is cheaper than the Cd82 arcam. Both sounded great to me. Arcam a bit melow and warm, NAD I thought was a bit more precise and detailed.

Going with nad 542 or Arcam 72/82 is no problem Marantz CD6000 SE or marantz CD6000 KI is also a superb Cd player.

Manek, I think I have finally selected my system which is:
Wadia 302
Krell 2250
Totem Forest
Now,this brings me to the point of buying the cables and interconnects. Transparent seems good but the price is killing. I think the Nordost or Kimber seems more like it. If I were to go for the Transparent, which model you would say is good value? Or are the kimbers etc better value? I am most excited and waiting for the system to arrive for me to hear it. Manek, do contact me when you next come to Bangalore. You can tell me about my placement etc.

:-) back to what you started with ???
Transparent audio : Music link/wave speaker cables and interconnects(analogue).

Kimber Kable 4TC or 8TC speaker cables(make sure they have banana or spade terminations) & Timbre or Hero analogue interconnects.

I guess so. Hope it sounds as good as it price. Anyways manek, thanks so much for all the input.

you are most welcome.....

cheraz, let me know when it arrives....I'll help you out with the setup.

Will do. Thanks.

does anyone know of hi-fi dealers in Dubai, especially for good dvd for playing cd + movies and for electostatic speakers?

"V.V. & Sons Ltd"
P.O.Box 105, Dubai, U.A.E.
Al Fahidi St., Next to NationaL Bank of Dubai,
Bur Dubai, United Arab Emirates

Tel: 00971(4)3532-444
00971(4)3534-454

Fax: 971(4)3535-856

Email: vvsonsdb@emirates.net.ae

They are the biggest and most reliable.

Hi Cheraz,
Please do post your impression of the totem-Krell combination. I have not heard it and am very curios about it !

I have only hear the Totem Sttaf but that was in a tube setup..I think by an AudioNote tube Monoblock and for that size it had an amazing Bass response..must be due to their transmission line design..

Arj,
My system has not come to me as yet. The totems are delaying the shipment. I am waiting to hear them. Will keep you posted when they come. About the "beaks",why do you say they are highly priced? I have bought them at $35 a pair and that is quite OK. And its not that I got them with the speakers. I had to buy them seperate.

nice deal cheraz,
actually the beaks do retail at a lot more than 35$.

you sure they are totem beaks and not equivalent OEM stuff ?

Manek.

Actually I was looking around for a 2 pairs of "Claws" and I believe the price exceeded 250 USD per pair

I believe if you buy it along with their speakers the deal is much more sweeter...$35 sounds really good!. If you do not wnat it..you do now which way to offer for sale first (Me !)

Actually I have this friend of mine in Kuwait who has a HiFi Store. And he is giving it to me at quite a discount (maybe a shade above his cost). And these are original Beaks from Totem. Do let me know Manek if you want any stuff. I could always ask him.

hey cool cheraz....thanks....
I'll keep that in mind.

Cheraz,
I don't post to this forum very often. Your choice of equipment is good. However, remember that putting a group of quality components together may not mean the composite will sound quite as good. Another word of caution. The wadia transport mechanism is very easily affected by dirt and moisture...something bangalore has both of in abundance, and laying out 3000$ plus for a cd player that could go pfft is a daunting thought.
Krells can be very dry and clinical and you may need to soften it up a bit. Beware the stated frequncy response of the totems. As i recall, they favor the high frequencies and dont have a flat response below 50Hz. For the amount of cash you are fronting , the dealer should let you demo the ensemble at home before you actually buy it.
A few suggestions if you havent already bought the stuff.
Maneks suggestion about the Arcam CD72 was a good one. I have owned this player in the past and can attest to its virtuosity. I sold it only to get a tubed output cary 308T.
While i was auditioning systems, I did have a wadia 301 for about two weeks. It is very neutral and detailed. Worth every penny, but it is not kind to speakers that favor the high frequencies. you might need a good sub.
Again it depends on what type of music you listen to.
you might want to think about adding a tubed linestage, or maybe think about warming up the sound with a tubed CD player.
The cary 308t may not gel with the Krell, but the Shanling CD T-100, or the jolida JD 100A might. both are way cheaper than the wadia or cary, and in the right circumstances, sound just as good
regards,
Shyam

Hi Shyam,

Nice to meet a "Tubehead" :)...am seriously planning to go that way but not too sure of the availability of tubes in India..

I am not too sure about the Shanling without its Mods as it is apparently prone to skipping (Tho it is one of the MOst beautiful CDP's I have seen..) but Jolida sounds very good..and If I may add..the Opera Consonance 2.2 is another beautiful as well as great sounding Sino Tube CDP.

The totems could be Bass shy but they depend very much on placement..and once you get that right they sound really good, I remember hearing the Arro (Actually with a tube Amp) in a Standard Hotel room and the low freq response was really good..The forrest I believe is one of the better Totems in the lower regions..

Although I am not a great fan of tone control via Cables...using Goertz I/C's and spk cables *Might* smoothen the dryness if any from the Krell..I was awaiting Chiraz's impressions on his system and his expectations before opening my mouth ...especially being prone to the Foot-in-mouth disease
Aparently Arcam has come up with a Better cd the CD73 which has a much better DAC (Woolfson i believe) in favour of the Old Burr Brown which seems to have given it great detail. am planning a 1:1 With my rather humble NAD one of these days ...
Nice hearing from you in this forum and hope to see you more

Hi Arj,
You are right about the shanling. However, I also used the Goertz alpha core interconnects, they are fairly warm. in addition, they are not shielded. So in very sensitive systems, they act like RF antennae! they are very clean cables though.
I do favor neutral cables. But they cost! A reasonable alternative are the cables made by JPS labs (Superconductor FX) or DH labs T14 or Q10, for speaker cables, and audioquest diamondbacks , JPS labs superconductor 2 . at present i'm using DH labs revelation interconnects and the mighty Nordost valhallas for my speakers, and CST ( coincident speaker technology) cables for my subs . I stereo sub my speakers.
later
Shyam

I forgot to add...what is your set up?
My system?
Magneplanar 3.6 speakers
vandersteen 2wq subs ( one for each speaker)
Plinius SA250 Class A power amp
Quicksilver linestage preamplifier (6dj8 tubes)
Cary 308T CD player ( 12AU7 tubes)
Nordost Valhalla speaker cables externally bi-wired
DH labs reveletion interconnects
Cary PH 302 phono stage
Linn LP12 turntable with Ittok LVII arm

cheers
Shyam

Hi Shyam,
I have a Much more Modest Setup

Stereo:
NAD521BEE CDP (Am planning an Upgrade soon..Or will Mod this or add a DAC.. still evaluating..would prefer to put the money on More CDs! )

Tara Labs Prism I/C
Sugden A21A Int Amp (An amazing Class A 25W Handbuilt Amp)
Nordost Flatline Gold (Biwired/Shotgun) speaker Cable.
Klipsch RF-3II speakers (Slightly coloured but makes good music )

Tweaks..DHcones/Squares under CDP, Raised Speaker wires, Ferrite Rods on all pwer cables.

Am evaluating betwen the Xindak PC02 and a DIY belden power cable fr the Amp these days.

Have Musical Fidelity X10-D which I use to connect my IPod to the stereo

HT
Bose Am3 fronts,VCS20 Package, Acoustic Reserach 10" Sub..QED flatwire wiring.
Onkyo SR600 Receiver
Mix and Match setupp just slowely kept adding components anyway use it mainly for TV


Mobile:
Apple 40GB iPOD with Grado SR60's

..And if I may add WOW.. an Linn LP12 !

God!! You guys are just something. I swear, the kind of information you`ll have for X,Y and Z system is just amazining. Arj, I still have not received my system and the wait is killing me. It seems it will only come in by mid March. Arj, you mentioned about placement. Well, I have about 2-3 feet open behind the speakers and the sides are both open about 15 feet both sides. Is that ok?

Well you will have to keep tryind and adjusting..takes me a couple of weeks to get it right !!!

But in case you have an Empty wall behind them, may do you good to have a rug placed on the backwall behind the two speakers..and later in case you experience problems something behind the speakers..on theside wall etc etc...

But wait..first play around with the manufacturers suggested config, breakin the speakers and make incremental changes.and Feel how its sounds..then when you realise the impact even a small change is making you do get a kick out of it!

I could not wait to breakin hence locked the speakers in a spare room and played it nonstop for 3 days with some really wide range of Music!!!

you can do some reading up from a tech. view from the site below..good stuff on placements

http://www.audiophysic.de/info/aufstellung/e_rules.html


The Wait can be really Frustrating..I almost went for the higher speaker the RF5 but would have had to wait for a month..and since i amost died in a week i changed my order to a RF3 which was instantly available !!!!!

cheers!

I have a showcase unit behind both so a rug would be difficult. Lets see when it comes. Also, I have a Marble flooring. What about that?

Also one thing, does it make a difference at what volume you play the music in the breakin period?