Speaker Design & Building What Is It All About ?

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Beitrag

jsa_ind
Stammgast

#51 erstellt: 24. Sep 2005, 16:07

Dear Deaf,

I should be asking you the question have you heard the Acapella with a woofer in a passive radiator combination I have........ and it sounds out of the world that is how I decided to do what I am doing right now !

What make you say that I believe that Dynaudio was the best ? It does not mean just because I have the Dynaudio Evidence Master I endorse that it is the best ! Either you have been misinformed or you haven't been reading my previous posts properly !

Well, haven't you heard of cases where you used the best ingredients & come up with the best dish ? It is all in the recipe my friend and the courage to go where other fear to tread ! The mere fact that the Ionic tweeters are sold as stand alones is demonstration that integration with other drivers is alive & well on planet earth !

Are you into speaker designing ? Would you be able to advise on the audio tools you use ? Perhaps you could teach us all a trick or two my friend...or like the so called 3 subwoofer theory you would shy away in fear that your commercial interests are going to be hurt ?? Come on I am a so called Commercial Member and there are a whole lot of Commercial Members on this forum who freely share their knowledge without having the insecurity that their means of livelihood are threatened ! Off course if you feel insecure than by all means refrain from sharing any of your experiences...gosh how can you...you are losing valuable money !

Where are you based my friend ? Your profile seems to be strangely veiled ? I can see you love XLR CD's...good for you !

Just because the passive radiator is capable of doing a 76 mm X max does not mean for every cycle it is going at 76 mm !! ......see there is difference between practical & theory & only hear say !

Why the Plasma tweeter even a ordinary tweeter moves faster than the woofer, do you mean to say integration does not & cannot take place with the other speaker drivers ? There are more two way & three ways speaker enclosures in the world than full range &/or duel concentric speakers ! You are way out on a limb my friend !

And please let us continue the worth while debate I seem to have run out of partners of late !

Regards,

Junia.

[Beitrag von jsa_ind am 24. Sep 2005, 16:30 bearbeitet]

jsa_ind
Stammgast

#52 erstellt: 24. Sep 2005, 16:15

Dear Deaf,

Thanks for the information. However I do believe that all RSP's have whizzer cones. Is there is link I could go to ratify your claim ?

I am having a tough time in understanding how the same driver can have different configurations with the same model number !

Regards,

Junia.

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#55 erstellt: 24. Sep 2005, 17:58

deaf schrieb:

Dear Ben and Junia ,ever hear the Acapella?Properly.If you haven't,I think you should before you decide on this choice of driver.
Hey Junia what what happened to Dynaudio?No more the best I guess.BTW did you know Acapella is the only other manufacturer besides Dynaudio to use the 2" Esotar midrange dome?In the midrange horn dude,thats where it is.Even then, with the horn acceleration that dome has a hard time keeping up with the tweeter, its that fast.
BTW just using the best drivers, especially with varying technologies does not end up being the best loudspeaker, it will probably end up being the worst,because an instrument with a wide range like a grand piano, will end up sounding like three different instruments between decade to decade.
Hey Benks you sound like a young engineer to me, right?
Just visualise how many times the plasma flame will change its pulse before that radiator will finish its 76mm xmax,then you will think differently.Driver integration is the key,acoustically and tonally.Even with the most sophisticated digital filtering, you cannot change the mechanical and material related tonal properties of a driver, hence the statement loudspeaker designing is a 'science and art'
Regards.

I refuse to agree with that..
the Dynaudio W7 drier is still regarded as one of the best drivers manufactuerd by dynaudio.
and frankly , u calling the dynaudio master reference a piece of crap is very dubious and foolish.
It may or may not be the reference loudspeaker, neither you nor I know that.
No, i have not heard the acapella and of course i know that the acrc changes many times in the Ionic tweeter.
However, one of the most coloured spekaers i have heard till date is the Proac Response D15s..

deaf,where exactly are u based in Bangalore?
I would love to come check out ur sub and the products that you carry,.
Cheers,
Sachi

jsa_ind
Stammgast

#56 erstellt: 24. Sep 2005, 18:10

Dear Sachi,

Let us have a wager, either he will not have time for a mere mortal like you or will suddenly say he lives in Timbuktu !!

Or we will be subject to deafening silence !!

O no he might also be attending one of those 60 concerts a day !

Regards,

Junia.

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#58 erstellt: 24. Sep 2005, 18:30

deaf schrieb:

Secondly give your tall claims to others, not to me, on loudspeaker theory cookbook and all that kid stuff.Go crack the AES papers on advanced electroacoustics and principles of wave propogation if you are such a king.Then only, think of making a so called reference loudspreaker.
Thirdly I call myself deaf as a joke, which of course is way beyond you.
Fourth I did not mention any model numbers, I said that coaxial and dual concentric are principally different technologies,which you with your so called kitchen appliance knowledge have not understood.
As far as the size of my house goes, I only have ONE family and it is large enough for us , regardless of your
'acoustikitchen' speakers.
BTW there are very few good Orchestras in the 'Americas',
and the good ones play in acoustically horrible venues made in the 60s &70s.Sadly due to contracts with various Trust, Funds and Wealthy patrons who control these venues and therefore dont allow musicians to perform in alternate halls music has a loss.
Lastly I never shoot myself in the foot in audio, the way you did with Dynaudio hahahaha, last laugh is mine,now lets continue.
Regards

Eitehr you know about audio or you have absoulutely no idea what u are talking about.
I say this by referring to your extremely inapproprite remarks regarding the 'cookbook' .
Do u mean to say you know better than Vance Dicksan. or that he is a fool.?
which is it?
I have read the AES papers(some of them) and the cookbook and all other books including the ones by RL murphy. They only take what is written in the AES papers and put in as plain a language as possible. I don't think you can disprove that.

[Beitrag von benkenobi am 24. Sep 2005, 18:31 bearbeitet]

deaf
Stammgast

#60 erstellt: 24. Sep 2005, 19:01

benkenobi schrieb:

deaf schrieb:

Dear Ben
I know about audio,and nobody is a fool.
Vance I respect deeply and R L murphy is a icon.
The question is, can you make a reference loudspeaker by reading their books? the answer is ofcourse not.
They do not deal with topics the way research guys do,e.g bending wave velocity of various cone materials for a give mass or effect on the midrange if the enclosure resonates at a given passband.I'll give you an example, no cookbook gave Laurence Dickie the brainwave to make the Nautilus for B&W, which is based on telecommunication theory;a truly terminated transmission line,which allowed him to effectively terminate
the rear radiation of the woofer.
In fact in a coffee conversation with him,years ago, I first learnt about subtractive filters, which work in active systems only.I mention this as you are making an active system and should refer the Kaminisky paper on this.
Regards
P S :Get your speaker going, I WANT TO HEAR IT, because you are making with your heart for yourself, and that is the most important aspect.

jsa_ind
Stammgast

#66 erstellt: 24. Sep 2005, 20:57

Dear Deaf

If I don't built my reference speakers than you are controlling me ! If not I am controlling you by evoking such strong response from you my friend !

Now there is only one person I know who moonlights as an audiophile/conman by demoing stuff in a garage during the day and works in a call center at night....any guesses here ?? BTW did you buy that Hi End turn table or did some rich client of yours grab it before it came to you !!

I already have my answer from Dynaudio as to the Consequence so I don't have to talk to Aditya..they don't make it anymore so, so much for your talk !

Now knowing your identity you never have gone for any concerts abroad, never met any one in B& W ( coffee with them it seems ......you are a riot!!) nor any one at Dynaudio and it is like your normal talk to the entire world a bag of hot air...so if you want to continue to live your life in self deception so let it be.

Just the other day someone on the forum wrote about your attitude as to pushing things down people's throat & acting arrogant ...that is the reason you shy away from assuming your real identity on the forum.

You never will meet Sachi as Deaf...as usual you will cut & run.....

Opps time up...... you need to go back to working in your call center ! You remind me so much of Saddam when he was cornered he tried ever trick in the book including patching with his enemies to slip & slide...only problem he didn't succeed. As to casting aspirations of me, looking down at call centers.....you are the one who told me how you detested working in call centers...remember ??!! No how can you !!

Take care,

Regards,

Junia.

P.S BTW I check back you were right about the drivers I misunderstood you were correct :-) !!

[Beitrag von jsa_ind am 25. Sep 2005, 15:12 bearbeitet]

jsa_ind
Stammgast

#67 erstellt: 24. Sep 2005, 22:35

Hi All,

There are rounds being made in the audio industry stating that thin walled cabinets that desipate energy are better than heavily damped cabinets...can any one throw some light on this ?

The example give was of a musical instrument...it is thin walled not heavily damped...could the same principle be applied to speaker enclosures ?

Regards,

Junia.

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#68 erstellt: 24. Sep 2005, 23:19

deaf schrieb:

In fact in a coffee conversation with him,years ago, I first learnt about subtractive filters, which work in active systems only.I mention this as you are making an active system and should refer the Kaminisky paper on this.
Regards
P S :Get your speaker going, I WANT TO HEAR IT, because you are making with your heart for yourself, and that is the most important aspect.

Could you please explain on this a bit more..or can you post a link that i can follow up on?
I would really like to take a look at the 15 inch sub that u have going..in fact have a freind who is mighty interested in 15 inch drivers.

Sachi

deaf
Stammgast

#69 erstellt: 26. Sep 2005, 08:13

benkenobi schrieb:

deaf schrieb:

Dear Ben, replies sent

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#70 erstellt: 26. Sep 2005, 08:31

deaf schrieb:

benkenobi schrieb:

deaf schrieb:

Dear Ben, replies sent

I don't see it.
Could you please resend it?

deaf
Stammgast

#71 erstellt: 26. Sep 2005, 09:08

benkenobi schrieb:

deaf schrieb:

benkenobi schrieb:

deaf schrieb:

Dear Ben, replies sent

I don't see it.
Could you please resend it?

Check PM

kspv
Ist häufiger hier

#72 erstellt: 26. Sep 2005, 12:46

A hot, hot article on subtractive filters, posted by Rod Elliott on 21st September, 2005, is here:

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/derived-xovers.htm

He concludes that subtractive crossovers are "nearly useless" (not my opinion

)

[Beitrag von kspv am 26. Sep 2005, 12:52 bearbeitet]

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#73 erstellt: 26. Sep 2005, 13:01

kspv schrieb:

A hot, hot article on subtractive filters, posted by Rod Elliott on 21st September, 2005, is here:

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/derived-xovers.htm

He concludes that subtractive crossovers are "nearly useless" (not my opinion

)

Thanks for that KSPV...
that article is spot on!...but at the end he too syay that he has not verified it...but i guess he deemed it a waste of his time.
Interesting read though...and it seems my 4th Order Linktwitz Riley active crossover is prefered kind of xover.
Cheers,
Sachi

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#74 erstellt: 26. Sep 2005, 13:11

Have upgraded the supply capacitors and have ordered better opamps to replace the archaic TL074s.
The new ones are AD713s.
so am hoping for an exponential increase in the SQ.

deaf
Stammgast

#75 erstellt: 26. Sep 2005, 13:16

kspv schrieb:

A hot, hot article on subtractive filters, posted by Rod Elliott on 21st September, 2005, is here:

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/derived-xovers.htm

He concludes that subtractive crossovers are "nearly useless" (not my opinion

)

Dear kspv, now we are talking serious loudspeaker design work,and it pleases me to see that.Useless or not, it is interesting to read and ponder over, is it not?Rather than just talk childish stuff, about this driver and that cabinet and this crossover etc etc.As I have experienced, that just thinking on conventional lines simply does not raise the bar of performance.We need to think out of the ordinary for raising this bar.A true challenge is using ordinary parts, and deriving a fabulously musical loudspeaker,one that entertains you for hours on end.
Excellent follow up

Regards

deaf
Stammgast

#76 erstellt: 26. Sep 2005, 14:11

benkenobi schrieb:

kspv schrieb:

A hot, hot article on subtractive filters, posted by Rod Elliott on 21st September, 2005, is here:

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/derived-xovers.htm

He concludes that subtractive crossovers are "nearly useless" (not my opinion

)

Dear Ben ,true,the 4th order LR will give you the best polar response, and it is the choice of x-over for many professional loudspeaker manufacturers, in monitoring purposes.Make sure that the slopes are acoustically and electrically fourth order, and not just electrically,or else if one of the drivers slopes sharper than the others acoustically, you will have a small issue tonally to deal with.The slopes have to be symmetrical acoustically too.
Regards

deaf
Stammgast

#77 erstellt: 26. Sep 2005, 15:34

Hey guys, really want to see a wild loudspeaker design?from ground up?
The new JAMO 909 reference.
It is a true open baffle with dual 15" drivers for the bass.As I said earlier think out of the ordinary, and you will raise the bar.
A friend and I once made an open baffle sub woofer using a Chinese amplifier module and an ordinary 12"woofer,sounded really amazing, extremely fleetfooted, no boom no overhang and other enclosure induced rubbish.Infact it was so good that most people could not relate to it, they preffered the 15" monster which I later made.I still have that open baffle sub, and am working on the rest of the speaker with the same friend whenever we get the free time.
Hey Ben this could interest you.
Regards

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#78 erstellt: 26. Sep 2005, 19:39

Very interested.
didn't know anyone had attempted an open baffle in India.
My original design called for an open baffle with two 10 inch drivers for the lows and an MTM for the mids and the highs...
but because of cost constraints i have gone for the active 3 way TMW route.
would be very intersted to take a look at the desing and the implementation. Please let me know when i can drop in to your place to check it out.
Cheers,
Ben

[Beitrag von benkenobi am 26. Sep 2005, 19:51 bearbeitet]

deaf
Stammgast

#79 erstellt: 27. Sep 2005, 07:56

benkenobi schrieb:

Dear Ben, I even tried to get custom drivers made for the LF for the open bafffle, so that I would not have to rely on active compensation,and go passive all the way.Sadly nobody locally knew how to get me a Fs of 30Hz, with the required Qts, and still have a sensitvity of 80db@16ohms.
This was 3 years ago.Now I have done drawings of how I will still get fullrange(50HZ and up) passively, without the assist of custom drivers.
Regards

Manek
Inventar

#80 erstellt: 27. Sep 2005, 13:41

To answer junia's query, the bosendorfer speakers seem to use a resonant cabinet with less damping but am not sure if it is thin walled. Remember reading an article about it. They compare it to the sounding board of a piano and have tried to ape that very concept. I believe Sushil Anand from Nova has heard the same at the German hifi show and was quite stunned by its performance. One article I had read said it had a very coloured midrange. Two very opposite views...

Manek.

deaf
Stammgast

#81 erstellt: 27. Sep 2005, 15:06

Manek schrieb:

Dear Manek,
I heard the Bosendorfer in ,when it was just launched,very coloured, but very musical,but flawed in the end.The best example I have heard of a undamped cabinet,without a doubt was the Lumenwhite, both the Whitelight and Whiteflame,but both at different times.The smaller one was one of the fastest speakers I have ever heard but dry.The bigger one is very musical, but does not have the same speed of the smaller one,but is more correct of the two.I could not find the recent flagship Diamondlight for a listen, but I am told it is spectacular.
BTW both these manufacturers are from Austria.
Regards

viren
Stammgast

#82 erstellt: 27. Sep 2005, 18:47

Hi,

Maybe a little technical explanation might help.

The body of a musical instrument is there to resonate and produce sound. You need a particular wood of the right thickness and dimensions to give the signature tone of that instrument. However, in loudspeakers, the cabinet is purely to enclose a compliant volume of air, and to control the rear sound wave, to give the desired response. All cabinet vibrations colour the direct sound.

In this non-ideal world of ours, all materials vibrate in sympathy with incident energy, and peak at the system resonance frequency. All engineering design can do is to control this energy.

And there are many methods of dealing with this. One school of thought is to use mass, as in thick-walled baffles and cabinets. What mass does is to push the resonant frequency of vibration lower, to the lower mid-range or upper bass. However, this is still a sensitive range for human ears. At these frequencies, traditional damping materials applied to the interior of the cabinet walls, fibreglass or wool, are of no use, since these absorb frequencies from the midrange on up. Also, mass stores more energy, releasing it at low frequencies over time. This leads to time-smearing of music.

Another school of thought uses stiffer, thin-walled cabinets, rigidly braced. This pushes the resonant frequency higher, to the upper midrange. A very sensitive area all right, but one where damping materials become very effective, and drain away the energy. Lower mass has less energy storage; lesser time smearing. The key is rigidity.

There are good examples of both. Take the approach which is
more in line with your thinking, and follow it through. Again, as in all design work, there are many correct paths; often, the implementation is more important than the selected philosophy!

Viren.

deaf
Stammgast

#83 erstellt: 28. Sep 2005, 14:40

viren schrieb:

Dear Viren,
Very well put.The method of completely killing all resonances in a enclosure is very expensive to implement, fully,and the other approach requires years of understanding of how enclosure losses really work, for you and against you.I have lost hope in wood based enclosures for many reasons,the most important being, lack of consistency in supply of the raw material.No vendor can assure you that he will be able to supply you with the same quality of MDF 6 montns later, as vendors in India import for furniture,not loudspeakers.I have a friend who has one of the largest loudspeaker operations in the country,after many costly mistakes, his company has to import the MDF from Europe, as the far east suppliers proved inconsistent in quality of batch matching.It is important to share this experience with loudspeaker aspirants, as they still may not understand the dynamics of production, in our weird field.
Regards

jsa_ind
Stammgast

#84 erstellt: 29. Sep 2005, 00:44

Dear Viren,

Thanks for the explanation.

In continuation I have another question, even if you control the standing waves in a cabinet by have asymmetrical walls & going iso-baric, as you rightly said, one would still land up with a fundamental resonance & sub harmonics, within the enclosure which smears the sound at the very best.

Is there a way of finding this fundamental resonance within the cabinet (or is it the same resonance frequency as that of the loudspeaker while mounted in the cabinet?) and once found could a system similar to a Helmholtz Resonant Absorber be built within the cabinet to absorb this fundamental resonance. Additionally could a thin wall cabinet be encapsulated with another thick outer wall and the cavity filled all around with a mixture of sand, lead & small steel bearings. The idea is to have the sub harmonics within the enclosure be transferred through the thin wall to this "mixture" and as they are made up of different material the energy would be further dissipated without exciting any resonances.

What are your thoughts on this ?

Thanks,

Regards,

Junia.

Manek
Inventar

#85 erstellt: 01. Okt 2005, 12:05

junia, this exact tought also crossed my our minds a couple of months back during a friendly chat with friends but an enclosure like that would be a serous cause of hearnia unless mounted on solid/smooth castors of steel, atleast the floorstanders...:-)

But maybe it could be a workable if we new the frequencies of resonances withn the box...that way maybe one could use stuffing ideally suited to be absorb those particular resonances.

Manek.

viren
Stammgast

#86 erstellt: 05. Okt 2005, 17:59

Hello Junia,

The double walled cabinet you describe uses a principle called constrained layer damping. The two walls are of different density, or thicknesses, with a compliant material, sand or foam, between them. The compliant layer prevents resonant energy being transferred between the layers, and damps whatever is. This sort of cabinet can be very effective, but is very expensive to make.

Its very difficult to predict the resonant signature of a type of construction - you just have to measure it. The resonances depend on the materials, the bonding, the bracing. The very aspect of adding more material to control a resonace will change the resonance of the resulting assembly. Unless you have sophisticated modelling techniques, it becomes a trial-and-error method.

Viren.

jsa_ind
Stammgast

#87 erstellt: 06. Okt 2005, 00:20

Dear Viren & Manek,

Thank you so much guys !

I did a Google search of "Constrained Layer Damping" & found a wealth of information...so that should get me going for a while !

I guess trial & error should come up with some interesting results, however, the methods that we normally use to determine driver resonance may not work, is there a method to determine cabinet resonance....if so can any light be shed on the procedure ?

Thanks,

Regards,

Junia.

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#88 erstellt: 06. Okt 2005, 01:04

i have come across methods where the double walled cabinet where the cavity is filled with cemment...how will this affect the resonsnces in the cabinet?
one thing is for sure...the things going to weigh over a tonne

deaf
Stammgast

#89 erstellt: 11. Okt 2005, 10:37

benkenobi schrieb:

Dear Ben
You are correct about the weight,but there will be no need to have two walls once you have cement. Just make a cement enclosure,that takes care of low frequency flexing and just make sure that the mids are absorbered completely via dampening materials,as they will bounce around in a cement enclosure.
Regards Dear

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#90 erstellt: 13. Okt 2005, 21:28

Hey ,
i came across this thread on diyaudio.com today..
took me to some jaw dropping,awe insipring projects.
check it out

http://www.diyaudio....id=742978#post742978
cheers,
Benkenobi

deaf
Stammgast

#91 erstellt: 14. Okt 2005, 08:29

Dear Ben
Did you know that a very good example of a concrete mix in a enclosure is not very far away.Cadence uses a concrete type mix in all their new speakers including their bookshelf speakers. Knock that enclosure and find out.
Regards Deaf

Manek
Inventar

#92 erstellt: 14. Okt 2005, 08:44

deaf,
yep, they call them concrete composite cabinets, If I'm not mistaken. I have those bookshelves and they are solid(for want of a better word)

Manek.

deaf
Stammgast

#93 erstellt: 14. Okt 2005, 09:26

Manek schrieb:

deaf,
yep, they call them concrete composite cabinets, If I'm not mistaken. I have those bookshelves and they are solid(for want of a better word)

Manek.

Manek
Shanti Swami

Regards Deaf

Manek
Inventar

#94 erstellt: 14. Okt 2005, 09:33

oh yeah....Shanti....got to meet this guy....he is quite something I am told....quite a wizard in his own right...

deaf
Stammgast

#95 erstellt: 14. Okt 2005, 09:39

Manek schrieb:

oh yeah....Shanti....got to meet this guy....he is quite something I am told....quite a wizard in his own right...

Dear Manek how about an interview with this wizard?That would be neat I think.
Regards Deaf

Manek
Inventar

#96 erstellt: 14. Okt 2005, 10:08

yes.....absolutely awesome but am told he doesn't quite like the spotlight....will be difficult to even have him agree to one. But I personaly want to shake him by the hand as I am a big fan....

deaf
Stammgast

#97 erstellt: 14. Okt 2005, 10:57

Manek schrieb:

yes.....absolutely awesome but am told he doesn't quite like the spotlight....will be difficult to even have him agree to one. But I personaly want to shake him by the hand as I am a big fan....

Dear Manek
Do your best, as it will really make worthwhile reading for all us forum members
Regards Deaf

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#98 erstellt: 14. Okt 2005, 11:28

actually thought about adding tiles inside the cabinet..even lead sheets..but was dissuaded from doing so by a more experienced soul..
can still do so if i want to..lots of tiles and cement and labour at my disposal right now....but no cabunets to double up if the experiment goes haywire

Arj
Inventar

#99 erstellt: 14. Okt 2005, 11:40

which tiles did you plan to put in ?

Dont tiles actually ring too much ?
hence may not act in the expected way..they are way too reflective.

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#100 erstellt: 14. Okt 2005, 12:02

i know..i thought so too...but then a fellow diyer gave me a link that was pretty advanced for me to follow then...The concept is not completely explained in the webpage,or so i felt.
I will try and post that link...vey interesting indeed..

deaf
Stammgast

#101 erstellt: 14. Okt 2005, 12:02

Dear Arj
Did you know that Celestion had an amazing experiment in the 80s with an enclosure using tiles. The amazing part actually, was the fullrange elliptical driver made from very thin balsa wood.Apparently that speaker sounded fantastic but could not be mass produced as the motor assembly was completely different from the norm.The entire pole piece and voice coil were elliptical and was driving the diaphragm from near the outer edge, near the surround.Tried to get one driver made like that, never went beyond the discussion table,pity.
Regards Deaf

Prithvi
Stammgast

#102 erstellt: 14. Okt 2005, 14:50

Manek schrieb:

yes.....absolutely awesome but am told he doesn't quite like the spotlight....will be difficult to even have him agree to one. But I personaly want to shake him by the hand as I am a big fan....

Hi! Manek,
Yes Shanti (Walter Schmidt) is a genius.

I had the good fortune to learn a lot from him personally when I was working for Cadence many years back He would do something to the Electrostats and then ask me what was the difference. Great designer, eccentric to the core, loves chicken sandwiches and is always in suspenders with baggy pants. Loves to pull ur leg. Pulled mine many times.

Do you know he always keeps his ears plugged with cotton. Only when he wants to do some critical listening does he remove the cotton. I asked him why? An the man says God has given him only one pair and he wants to protect them from all the other irrrating sounds. According to him he hears better each and every change he make in his designs. Can't disagree with him. No wonder we guys love to listen to music late in the night when everything is quiet. We hear more detialed stuff. Now days Shanti is parked in Thailand and does all his designs from there.

Regarding the Cadence Arita, there is a layer of Polyster Concrete sheet that is sandwiched between two layers of MDF. Ur knuckles go for a six. ITs the heaviest bookshlef around at 15kgs+. Love them, sadly sold only two pairs in Bangalore. Most of today's towers are lighter than the ARITA

My fav amp of his are the Canasya monoblocks.! I guess you have listened to them?
Rgds
Prithvi

Manek
Inventar

#103 erstellt: 14. Okt 2005, 15:20

Yes prithvi, Genius' are usually eccentric in one way or another and for him its essential to protect his hearing

Yep you are right about the fact that they may be one of the heaviest bookshelves around and are fantastic performers. I have mine on the cadence stands and really dont miss a floorstander unless I hear the Avita or a similar sounding speaker.

Have heard the canasya the canasya a few times and they are beautiful amps. Have actually heard the Arita(bookshelf) with the canasya's for a few minutes at the factory and I was blown by the little speakers performance

Canasya's are an awesome pair but I'm afraid way out of my league at the moment.

But its on my list

Manek.

Prithvi
Stammgast

#104 erstellt: 14. Okt 2005, 15:40

Hi!
Never heard that combo, must have been amazing. Luckly I sold a pair of Canasya with the ARCAs in Bangalore. Actually three of my customers have ARCA's and I drop in sometimes to get blown by them.

The Arita sounds better with the Cadence stands as the stand is also made of mdf/polyster concrete and a marble top. Breaks ur back trying to lift them, However the price of the ARITA + STAND is more or less the same as a DIVA, thats why some customers prefer to buy the DIVA instead of the other combo.

Can you imagine if these guys make the ARCA-4 with polyster concrete, better they supply a robot to pick them up too

Rgds
Prithvi

Arj
Inventar

#105 erstellt: 14. Okt 2005, 18:17

deaf schrieb:

yeah Another great company which is onto hard times.. feel sad for true innovators falling on the side and market savy Bose doing well. I guess that is the price of capitalism !

(Of course I do admire Bose for Marketing and selling the Sub-Sat model which almost every co is following now)

jsa_ind
Stammgast

#106 erstellt: 14. Okt 2005, 23:23

Hi All,

Has anyone tried elliptical enclosures and if so could you please share your experiences as to designing, building and listening.

Regards,

Junia.

http://www.trueaudio.com/st_diff1.htm

deaf
Stammgast

#107 erstellt: 15. Okt 2005, 10:50

jsa_ind schrieb:

Hi All,

Has anyone tried elliptical enclosures and if so could you please share your experiences as to designing, building and listening.

Regards,

Junia.

http://www.trueaudio.com/st_diff1.htm

Dear Junia,
Fistly,externally elliptical loudspeakers meant to frequency stagger for step baffle diffraction losses are very common.Enclosures that are elliptical internally for obvious acoustic gains are rarer and more fun to discuss.
The interesting question is not how an elliptical enclosure will sound, but how will you make one that is accurate in every millimeter of curvature? This means that any type of MDF technology is out.Plywood is an option, but will not bend as sharply at the narrow tip of an ellipse and will warp over a large area.Therefore it becomes obvious that the ellipse will have to be cast out of some other material.The entire exercise of getting a mould in place to cast the enclosure is not a easy task, as the loudspeaker designer will need years of experience to predict the response in such an air volume.Have such speakers been built?Yes they have.How do they sound?They have as much variation in tonal balance among various models as do different box speakers,but are generally cleaner than their box counterparts.The best example is the KEF egg speakers.The interesting part is that depite their advantages, ellipses are ignored by large audiophile companies and it is smaller newer companies that are pushing this frontier.As I mentioned to you earlier, that these topics regarding advanced loudspeaker thought process will not be covered in design books(an elliptical enclosure will require an expert in modelling fluid dynamics, to better understand air flow behaviour).Hope my two bit proves useful.
Regards Deaf

Arj
Inventar

#108 erstellt: 15. Okt 2005, 11:43

I remember reading a review of a speaker (Think it was australian) which had an unusual configuration of Tweeters and mid Woofers and apprently was designed such that the listener heard this as One single Oval driver.. At that point i was not sure what they meant but from the above It appears that oval/Elliptical does have some sonic advantages..

Good point to read/ research on on a staturday afternoon !

Manek
Inventar

#109 erstellt: 15. Okt 2005, 12:56

hee hee...The hardwood baffle is heavy enough on the arca. Wonder what the addition of concrete would do to the groin area

BTW the arita + stands are an awesome combo. I choose it over the Diva's. I know some would like the divas for it going lower and the 8 inch mid/bass, which is a very good driver BTW.

Manek.

deaf
Stammgast

#110 erstellt: 15. Okt 2005, 13:15

Manek schrieb:

hee hee...The hardwood baffle is heavy enough on the arca. Wonder what the addition of concrete would do to the groin area

BTW the arita + stands are an awesome combo. I choose it over the Diva's. I know some would like the divas for it going lower and the 8 inch mid/bass, which is a very good driver BTW.

Manek.

Dear Manek
Did you know that the 8" Eton used in the Diva is the only curvilinear profile cone in the entire Eton lineup.All the other Eton drivers use straight profile cones.Interesting
isn't it?
Regards Deaf