Mumbai Meet Tomorrow

Before I start on my comments on the equipment heard at amp_nut’s place, I must give 5 stars (What HIFI style ) to the host for his hospitality. Amp_nut, sir, it was truly a pleasurable few hours spent at your place that day.

Now, here’s my take.

TUBES vs. THE REST: The more I listen to valves, the more I seem to be falling in love with them. Case in point: Amp_nut’s PL2 versus the Flying Mole monoblocs.

In short, I’d define the PL2’s sound as far, far warmer and musical than the Flying Mole’s which, (to my ears) sounded rather clinical. The FMs had everything… power, detail, image, clarity… you name it! What they didn’t have was that “mmmm” factor. The sheer delicacy that differentiates music at home from music in a studio.

That said, what the PL2s lacked was sheer grunt at higher volumes. Initially bhagwan and manek made me aware of the distortion on some passages. After that I found the lack of power rather noticeable.

CABLES DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE! At least a power cable does. This was very evident when amp_nut replaced the cable he was using on the source (or was it the amp??… no I’m pretty sure it was the source) with the Cardas. Sound became much cleaner.

THE GREAT SPEAKER SHOWDOWN: Aah…the speakers. Amp_nut, your Sonus Fabors are superb! Brilliant, I’d say. A sound so deep and so dynamic. That drum track on the Burmester CD was very, very enjoyable! (I could see zhoupudey just getting soaked into it). A very true sound, if I could say that!
That said, the Amayas are what soaked ME in! The sheer delicacy of those things. Bulky as they are, they provide a sound that’s really, really transparent. Image, soundstage, tone, dynamism was all there and those speakers disappeared in a snap! And when I say snap, I mean snap. I started enjoying them even before they were toed in and ‘positioned’.

Shahrukh schrieb:

I started enjoying them even before they were toed in and ‘positioned’.

Could there be a more abrupt ending to a review...

Shahrukh schrieb:

Before I start on my comments on the equipment heard at amp_nut’s place, I must give 5 stars (What HIFI style ) to the host for his hospitality. Amp_nut, sir, it was truly a pleasurable few hours spent at your place that day. CABLES DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE! At least a power cable does. This was very evident when amp_nut replaced the cable he was using on the source (or was it the amp??… no I’m pretty sure it was the source) with the Cardas. Sound became much cleaner. That said, the Amayas are what soaked ME in! The sheer delicacy of those things. Bulky as they are, they provide a sound that’s really, really transparent. Image, soundstage, tone, dynamism was all there and those speakers disappeared in a snap! And when I say snap, I mean snap. I started enjoying them even before they were toed in and ‘positioned’.

Well put Shahrukh !

Amp-Nut is a great host [Pune trip was brilliant] !!!

Cables always make a difference. Your equipment should have the ability to show that difference to you !!
If your system does not have the ability to resolve, then you will never 'hear' the difference & call is 'snake oil' etc.

The Amaya is a great VFM Speaker - @ 75/- K Refurbished from Cadence factory, it is free.
Plays well. There are certain issues, but @ its price those issues do not bother me.
Very very difficult to out perform it at that price. I do not know any speaker under 100 K that will do better than the Amaya.

abhi.pani schrieb:

Shahrukh schrieb: I started enjoying them even before they were toed in and ‘positioned’. Could there be a more abrupt ending to a review... :D

My bad! Seems to be an error in my copy-paste! Will edit it ASAP!

contd. from my earlier post

...I started enjoying them even before they were toed in and ‘positioned’. I guess that's the thing about great equipment - it sounds good no matter what! Of course, it can always sound better! I believe one can acquire these babies for around 80K. For that price... they are A STEAL!! Anyway, since these buggers are quite bulky, one would need a room to match!

Coming back to the sound, IMO those ES panels will put any silk dome tweeter to shame (sorry amp_nut!). There's that certain quality in those panels that just makes each and every instrument glow in its own space. Absolutely zero fatigue!

I wish I could've stayed on and listened to the equipment longer but health and domestic (wifey was getting back home from work) had me leaving by around 6:15!

Thanks again, amp_nut for a great afternoon!

Amayas for 75-80 K ? Tell me the details

I was surprised to know that the Amayas are still in production and can be bought at approx Rs 130 K to Rs 140K ( I am not sure of the exact figure )

I am told that you can also procure Refurbished Amayas from the Cadence factory for about Half as much.

I dont know if the refurbs are available through their dealers....

Friends... my thoughts on the comparision between the Sonus Faber Extremas ( Standmount speakers ) and Cadence Amaya floor stand speakers.

The Amayas are a 2 way design, with a 10 inch driver and Electrostat tweeter.... and pretty massive.... even in my 400 sq feet Plus room.

First of the all the physical size of the Amayas seemed to turn off my family. They have got used to the small ( relatively ) Italian speakers.

What struck me as the best aspect was the good and very lively mid bass. The bass was 'thumpy' in a lively but mid fi way. Forum member 'Switch-It-On' felt that the thumpy bass could probably be corrected with positioning of the speakers.

I thought that the tweeter would be the best part of that speaker, but I prefer the Esotar Tweeter on my SF speaker ( even today, considered as one of the very best, and the Esotar Tweeter alone sells for US $ 850 Each ! )

The Electrostat tweeter had the usual electrostat sound... rich in the higher harmonics but a laid back fundamental. As an example, a Cymbal hit with a wooden stick has great and open "Tizzz" but a laid back 'TANG"

'Switch-It-On' was VERY impressed with the Treble and felt that it was almost there with the world's best. ( I GREATLY respect 'Switch-It-On' 's ear, and he has placed ny Sonus faber for me better that I could )

The large cabinet makes for great mid bass and good bass. The Amayas Impress easily ... they would make Great Party Speakers, because they are Very efficient too, about twice as efficient as the Sonus Fabor Extremas that I am using.

The Amayas Image Very VERY well, even when not critically placed. The Image height is excellent ... better than the SF. However, the Cadence does not provide pin point
imaging. One ( Left ) of the 2 Amayas dissappeared almost instantly, while the other was more stubborn.

To sum it up, the Cadence are GREAT Value for money ( This used pair is approx Rs 75K ). They have better mid bass and deep bass ( quantity) than my Extremas. The bass was however 'humpy' in a Hi Fi ish rather than natural way. Likable on first hearing but may not sustain a positive impression.

They do lack a bit of deep bass resolution, but nothing objectionable.

Where I REALLY prefer my speakers is the Intimacy and "REAL-ness" in the sound... the feeling of 'being there' of the Extremas superior.

I cant REALLY put my finger on it, but there was something about the Cadence that has me dissatisfied .. at the back of my mind. ... Its Not ( I hope ) the fact that they are not my speakers and the SFs are...

So for now, I will leave it at "REAL-ness" & .. the feeling of 'being there' as to the reason why I prefered my own SFs.

At Last!
Its this kind of involved & ,shall we say, perceptive review that I was looking forward to from gentlemen as experienced & sensitive to the nuances and delicacies of reproduced sound as youall at the bombay meet.
More of the same, please!
BTW, Amp_nut,were you able to filter out the fact that your ears are "used" to the sound of the SFE's?
regards,
Kamal

Where I REALLY prefer my speakers is the Intimacy and "REAL-ness" in the sound... the feeling of 'being there' of the Extremas superior. I cant REALLY put my finger on it, but there was something about the Cadence that has me dissatisfied .. at the back of my mind. ...

A very relevant point amp_nut. Something I have felt many a times but couldnt know what is missing. The Real-ness in the tone as well as the presentation ultimately becomes the deciding factor....If this gets compromised then however detailed and dynamic the sound may be, it just doesnt seem the one for you...

Like I hinted in my post above , speakers ( and Wives) do have characteristic "voices"-And, you do get used to them after some time, like an old & much used pair of slippers!
Kamal

Anyone who rues the fact that women dont join our hobby have Kamal to blame!

Kamal said:

BTW, Amp_nut,were you able to filter out the fact that your ears are "used" to the sound of the SFE's?

A VERY valid point... and i am only human...

However, the 2 speakers had a similar, family sound in the sense, it was not the difference between what could be 'Rock music Speakers' and Classical music speakers.

I could reasonably live with the Amayas, with the SFs as my next upgrade ..

Kamal schrieb:

Like I hinted in my post above , speakers ( and Wives) do have characteristic "voices"-And, you do get used to them after some time, like an old & much used pair of slippers! Kamal

Hmmm...your analogy with an used pair of slippers is quite interesting...
But somehow I am not comfortable with this analogy.
Any pair of slippers when used for long gives you the feeling of comfort which new ones may not be able to give...but its not that way with audio.
IMO in audio, if you land up with a wrong set of equipments (when I say wrong, I dont mean bad, I just mean something that doesnt suits your taste) you can hardly think of getting used to it. Instead, more often than not, you would want to get rid of it and get something better (again better means, which suits your taste better). You may try and live with it for sometime (till you can afford another one), but its very rare that you would like the sound because you own it or you got used to it. I am sure, the day you hear a better setup, you would want to get them. On rarest occasion some people change the genres of music they listen to so that it suits their equipments (as sub_boss says) but thats rare.

In amp_nut's case, he liked SFE (which he owns) better than Amayas (borrowed)...IMO even if he would have owned Amayas and borrowed SFEs, he would still had loved SFEs more. He is fortunate that he owns something that he likes more than many other good speakers.

But saying that he likes SFE because he is used to SFE sound is not something I agree with entirely. To me its the other way round....He uses SFE because he likes it. Otherwise Upgraditis is a very common disease among audiophiles.

I suppose an audiophile has good enough ears to recognize which system sounds better (to him). Otherwise the purpose of being an audiophile is almost defied.

Audiophile & Audiophool ?

Jeeves schrieb:

Anyone who rues the fact that women dont join our hobby have Kamal to blame! :D

My take, only men have an equipment fixation.. i think deep down it comes from a mine is bigger than yours syndrome..

big speakers, more power, heavy component, thick cables, more spl etc etc..

similiarly applies to cars, cameras, bikes etc etc

Most women just concentrate on the music and not perhaps where it is coming from.

My take on this after noticing that my wife perhaps listens and enjoys more music and while i am worried as to why that drum is booming a little bit or why the high note on the sitar did not have a good enough decay, there are people who are actually enjoying the music and that goes past sound quality. of course better quality is appreciated but a 128 kbps or lesser MP3 files is not going to make them stop listening to it as it does to me


but again, i am going the audiophile way while most of the others just want to listen to music !

I know Dr saab disagrees to this last point

BTW, mine is bigger than yours!



























































(I have floorstanders!)

Most women just concentrate on the music and not perhaps where it is coming from. My take on this after noticing that my wife perhaps listens and enjoys more music and while i am worried as to why that drum is booming a little bit or why the high note on the sitar did not have a good enough decay

Same here...my wife is more bothered about the stand on which the speaker has to be kept rather than the speaker itself
Because the stands have to match the aesthetics of the room.

Though she now can identify between a well recorded CD and badly recorded CD, but once a good CD is playing, while she appreciates the MUSIC more, I tend to appreciate the SOUND more...

abhi.pani schrieb:

Most women just concentrate on the music and not perhaps where it is coming from. My take on this after noticing that my wife perhaps listens and enjoys more music and while i am worried as to why that drum is booming a little bit or why the high note on the sitar did not have a good enough decay Same here...my wife is more bothered about the stand on which the speaker has to be kept rather than the speaker itself Because the stands have to match the aesthetics of the room. Though she now can identify between a well recorded CD and badly recorded CD, but once a good CD is playing, while she appreciates the MUSIC more, I tend to appreciate the SOUND more... :angel

Seriously speaking though, I've noticed that wives have far better ears!

they hear more of the music anyway. by the time we are 30 men dont hear above 15khz, while women do all the way up till 20.

and we need to play itlouderto get the same detail as they do

yes....females do have especially good hearing at higher frequencies. Was reading about it somewhere, its to do with babies and their abilities to hear them crying or something like that....
but the truth is...we males will never hear the level of detail they would....now they would make for excellent reviewers!

Women reviewers anyone ?

Manek.

In amp_nut's case, he liked SFE (which he owns) better than Amayas (borrowed)...IMO even if he would have owned Amayas and borrowed SFEs, he would still had loved SFEs more. He is fortunate that he owns something that he likes more than many other good speakers

Abhi, my qn to Amp was whether he had discounted the "ownership"& being "used" to the sound of the SFE's factor while giving his opinion on SFE vs Amayas ,thats all.
Obviously, SFE's are v.good else he would'nt have passed judgement the way he did(would like to hear them myself).
Re the analogy with slippers, the assumption is that you like the speakers ( slippers) well enough to Listen to them ( wear them) over a period of time, and are "comfortable with their sonic quality.
I guess unless you are an out & out equipmentophile who would keep on changing his rig in a never ending quest to have the "best", you do tend to settle down with a rig which sounds good to you after the initial search for a setup that makes you say, " Yup, thats it".
I respect the fact that good sound is pretty sujective, even in the case of audiophiles!
Kamal

yes....females do have especially good hearing at higher frequencies. Was reading about it somewhere, its to do with babies and their abilities to hear them crying or something like that....

Sanjay, is this a fact?
And Manek, dont forget the fact that we help to make the babies!
Kamal

Hi !

A lot seemed to have happened here while I was busy working. Here I am to catchup:

-"Realness" & "Being there" are the most desirable characteristics of audio - and least of wives

-I don't know whether wives hear more or not - but they are definitely the reason why we hear less (kids have nothing to do with it)

-In audio we do like the sounds that we get used to - but wives ... the sound we are not "used" to

-Amp_nut: wives always pay more attention to any equipments facility to "stand" and not so much to the "sound"

-Shahrukh: for any equipment it is not so important how big it is ... but how "long" it "enjoys that status"

Kamal ! I'm going to the market to buy myself a new pair of slippers .... would you like to come along .... or do you think it's time you walked "barefoot"

Doc wrote :

-I don't know whether wives hear more or not - but they are definitely the reason why we hear less

hahahah I'm still laughing with that statement of yours...

On rarest occasion some people change the genres of music they listen to so that it suits their equipments (as sub_boss says) but thats rare.

Oh come to think of it! I never changed genres and I always liked rock, pop, country, metal and love it till date and bought equipment which can make it sound good..I hunted for amps which can give me good rock solid bass, CDP to deliver the same and speakers to take the beating and overall a close to neutral sound from all this put together is like attaining moksh in audio hunt. Kinda naked in the jungle feeling and no more wishes on audio front..

Never felt a craving for funeral eerrr classical music. Due apologies to classical lovers!

Shahrukh you have a big thing standing... eerr on the floor and we all call em flrs...

sub_boss wrote:

I never changed genres and I always liked rock, pop, country, metal and love it till date and bought equipment which can make it sound good..

Hmmm...I never said you changed genres...Actually I remember you writing a few words about people who change genres to suit their equipments and thats what I was trying to re-quote

On rarest occasion some people change the genres of music they listen to so that it suits their equipments (as sub_boss says) but thats rare.

Looks like you are too busy to recollect your previous posts as well

Looks like you are too busy to recollect your previous posts as well

Nope I just stumbled acros this.......... BTW howz your set up now