Why is neutral/natural."Boring"

Ever tried having coffee wothout sugar, soup without pepper it tastes boring.

Jokes apart there is no system whcih would ever reproduce music the way it was recorded.. Heck when the voice is captured in a microphone it changes tonality.

Fine getting back to your query as to natural being boring

basically not adding anything of its own and just playing as it was meant to be played/recorded

If I know musical instruments were invented to add some colour to music so coloration is old order dude and always look for tonality and naturality in instruments , In a set up a guitar sounds like a guitar it's good enough and rest is all crap for time pass by well seasoned audio nuts to wail away their time.

"Guitar sounding like a guitar and piano sounding like a piano"...if thats enjoyble...wont a "neutral" system do it that way ??? The why is it boring ?

Good point, abhi.pani

I suspect that Each audiophile has his / her preferences as to what is their 'prefered flavour' of sound.

We all listen to an appreciate different things in audio playback.

Soume of us like Kick Ass bass, some a smooth & relaxed sound, some like a High Frequency sizzle....

.... and some like their sound without salt or pepper added, as sub boss very aptly stated.

Many audiophile argue from this 'Neutrality' High Ground, and state that this is the 'Right' thing to do.

I will not concurr or contradict that.

However, some thoughts of my own ...

Microphones and studio monitors ( not to mention room acoustics of the monitoring studio itself ) have their own tonal characteristics.

The recording engineer has his own ears, and put together sometimes, what sound 'neutral' to him, in that environment..

Some musical instruments do Not have a sound of their own : An Electric guitar, a synthesizer...

They will sound different when played through different speakers & amplifiers, and in different rooms...

So what is its neutral / natural sound ????

I Would like to add that...Blant Coffee or Soup cant be compared to Guitar or Piano because these instruments sounds the sweetest when they are raw (unamplified live) and thats why they are the referrence (nobody in the world can contradict that)..but soup and coffee is not the tastiest in its raw form thats why most of the people in the world add pepper and sugar respectively so they are entirely two opposite things to bring into an analogy.

Some people say that a neutral/accurate system wont attract you instantly......but as far as I know a live guitar or piano (even if being played on the roadside) attracts people instantly Thats the magic of the sound I believe then why does a system that claims to be close to the sound wont attract people (an audiophile) instantly ?? I mean why all this contradiction ? Its a straightforward common sense, still why ?

Hmmm. most interesting! Does the sound really remain neutral when you play it at home? I mean, if you recorded a guy playing piano on the roadside and replayed it at home, doesn't your home color the recording? I guess 100% neutral would mean listening on the roadside

A relatively neutral system close to the sound will definitely attract people. There is no contradiction at all.
It is only that, most of us are so used to unnatural sound from electronics; a relatively natural sounding system takes some time to get used to. Another big issue is the setup and room in which the electronics is played. When auditioning good systems, setup is of paramount importance. Another issue is the type of music played. When auditioning with music which are predominantly synthesized or which thrives on distortion or even recordings which are purposely distorted ( examples: most AR Rehman stuff and bubble gum pop), neutrality does not matter much because there is no “ reference point” to the sound’s neutrality.

square_wave schrieb:

It is only that, most of us are so used to unnatural sound from electronics; a relatively natural sounding system takes some time to get used to. When auditioning with music which are predominantly synthesized or which thrives on distortion or even recordings which are purposely distorted ( examples: most AR Rehman stuff and bubble gum pop), neutrality does not matter much because there is no “ reference point” to the sound’s neutrality.

I would agree on one part that we are used to unnatural sounding electronics...but if a common man doesnt take time to react to a live guitar then why does he needs time to adjust to a similar sounding electronics (a neutral one) playing the same tune ?

Secondly if some recordings are deliberately distorted it should sound distorted in a neutral system and serve the purpose that the recording engineer expected.

So why is the contradiction ??

i don't know about neutral and all..
all i can distinguish between is a system that sounds good to me and one that doesn't..
there is not in between system that sounds neutral or okay.

abhi.pani schrieb:

square_wave schrieb: It is only that, most of us are so used to unnatural sound from electronics; a relatively natural sounding system takes some time to get used to. When auditioning with music which are predominantly synthesized or which thrives on distortion or even recordings which are purposely distorted ( examples: most AR Rehman stuff and bubble gum pop), neutrality does not matter much because there is no “ reference point” to the sound’s neutrality. I would agree on one part that we are used to unnatural sounding electronics...but if a common man doesnt take time to react to a live guitar then why does he needs time to adjust to a similar sounding electronics (a neutral one) playing the same tune ? Secondly if some recordings are deliberately distorted it should sound distorted in a neutral system and serve the purpose that the recording engineer expected. So why is the contradiction ??

For the initiated, it does not take any time to adjust. For others it takes time because he has to re-adjust himself to hearing natural sound from electronics. For most, hifi is about “pumped up” and highly colored sound. For the initiated audiophile, “natural sound” turns him on, for others, it is “sound on steroids “that works.

neutral......shmeutral !

I have just one take on this....

if a system is supposed to be neutral but does not sound musical or is "boring" then its not neutral. Its just taken away a lot from the music which its not supposed to.
Live music & natural sounds that I hear and relate to are never boring.

Manek.

Square_Wave,
Forget about laymen. We are talking about serious audio lovers like us in the forum. We have been decently exposed to hifi but still the word is around that a "neutral" system is boring (to we people who are well initiated) and its not everyone's cup of tea. I mean forget about general public, lets talk about people who can appreciate good sound, even among them "an accurate system may not be musical" thing is doing rounds, similarly "a neutral system is kinda boring/doesnt impress instantly" thing is talked about, I really cant make out a justification here. If they sound close to the istruments they represent then they should sound attractive and utmost musical (at the first instance) as that is what a real musical instrument does so effectively.
Recently my father's colleague visited our place for a get together, I didnt know that he plays Accordion ver well, fortunately he had brought his accordion to the get together...believe me as he started playing it...everyone was spellbound within seconds ....if someone says that a system trying to reproduce the same sounded boring...I can kill myself

but still the word is around that a "neutral" system is boring

Who Say So ????

Knowledgable audiophiles ?

I Would like to add that...Blant Coffee or Soup cant be compared to Guitar or Piano because these instruments sounds the sweetest when they are raw (unamplified live) and thats why they are the referrence (nobody in the world can contradict that)..but soup and coffee is not the tastiest in its raw form thats why most of the people in the world add pepper and sugar respectively so they are entirely two opposite things to bring into an analogy.

What makes you feel I bought them under same analogy,
I made a statement that neutral systems are boring for most as there needs to be some spice which all systems induce and believe me get me one person in who can claim that he hears music exactly the same way the way it was intended to be. Of course we use good set up's to get close to them. Fine why do we find neutral sound boring? The reason is if you are used to coloured sound and yes everybody is used to like a spiced up soup will find natural boring, as that’s what the truth is and don’t believe when one when one makes a claim that he hears natural..no he perceives it as natural coz that suits his taste. If you are used to live unamplified music even the position you are seated matters and gives you an entirely different sound.

Talking of coffee and soup yes your speakers, amps, CDP, cables , room etc do add some colouration which gives you the good feeling and talking of piano's and guitar sounding sweet , yes they do sound good but what happens when the same has to pass through microphone, series of recoding instruments and as Amp_Nut puts it the engineer does indeed add his flavour..Yes they use equalisers.

....if someone says that a system trying to reproduce the same sounded boring...I can kill myself

Don’t make statements of suicide attempt in public as eventually you’ll have to kill yourself as when your father's colleagues Accordion is not going to give you same magic friend..of course you might use the best of recording systems and best of neutral equipment to get close…. Tell me it’s more sensible to ask him to play in front of you again that spending lakhs and blaming coloration.

Oh yeah at last coffee was never intended to be drunk with sugar and milk to say the least, but what does world over do..add cream shit , shat , singri etc etc..and whisky should be had neat brother, but I see many huh almost all mix sprite( yuck ), 7up9 aah thoo shit ) ..soda is atleast a breath saver.. on rocks is also fine..arrghh weekend is close :*, So you see how cloured world is

Actually abhi I believe most of us audiophiles in India have almost no exposure to live music. Especially accoutic. Even western classical is limited to NCPA in Mumbai. DNA brings in the occasional rock band.
For many audiophiles abroad live music is a natural extension of their musical experience and they regularly attend concerts of various types of music. All over the world you find resturants/clubs/bars/squares in most cities providing live music. They perhaps then use their combined experience/perception to create a 'point of reference' in choosing their systems.
Jeeves

i don't know about neutral and all.. all i can distinguish between is a system that sounds good to me and one that doesn't.. there is not in between system that sounds neutral or okay.

Same here too buddy, sound sound good to you..beleive me recording engineeers don't run behind refernces they used their ears as refernce and your taste perceived by you steers towards a particular sound.

Hmmm. most interesting! Does the sound really remain neutral when you play it at home? I mean, if you recorded a guy playing piano on the roadside and replayed it at home, doesn't your home color the recording? I guess 100% neutral would mean listening on the roadside

How can you write this raftug it would obviously be better on raod, but depends on the acoustics on road..

They perhaps then use their combined experience/perception to create a 'point of reference' in choosing their systems.

Excellently put up Jeeve.. we like to hear in tandem with our choice and perceptions of sound.

Jeeves schrieb:

Actually abhi I believe most of us audiophiles in India have almost no exposure to live music. Especially accoutic. Even western classical is limited to NCPA in Mumbai. DNA brings in the occasional rock band. For many audiophiles abroad live music is a natural extension of their musical experience and they regularly attend concerts of various types of music. All over the world you find resturants/clubs/bars/squares in most cities providing live music. They perhaps then use their combined experience/perception to create a 'point of reference' in choosing their systems. Jeeves

how very true.. we grow up listening to music with Pumped up treble/Bass and/or via distorted horn based PA systems .

Hopefully the next generation will have better "ears"

abhi.pani schrieb:

Square_Wave, Forget about laymen. We are talking about serious audio lovers like us in the forum. We have been decently exposed to hifi but still the word is around that a "neutral" system is boring (to we people who are well initiated) and its not everyone's cup of tea. I mean forget about general public, lets talk about people who can appreciate good sound, even among them "an accurate system may not be musical" thing is doing rounds, similarly "a neutral system is kinda boring/doesnt impress instantly" thing is talked about, I really cant make out a justification here. If they sound close to the istruments they represent then they should sound attractive and utmost musical (at the first instance) as that is what a real musical instrument does so effectively. Recently my father's colleague visited our place for a get together, I didnt know that he plays Accordion ver well, fortunately he had brought his accordion to the get together...believe me as he started playing it...everyone was spellbound within seconds ....if someone says that a system trying to reproduce the same sounded boring...I can kill myself :cut

I never believe a neutral system is boring. A neutral system is the most entertaining of them all. But some so called “clinical sounding “ equipment can sound boring. Most of them have been voiced that way to appeal to “neutral sound brigade” who are after the most neutral sounding equipment at a very low/medium budget. A very clever trick indeed by some brands to mint money. I have a feeling it is this category of equipment that gave birth to this “boring – neutral” sound thing. Truly neutral equipment can cost a lot of money but they sound fantastic. But then again, there is always the “ voicing factor”. One man’s food can be another man’s poison. This is the reason why there are so many “camps” even in the hi-end arena.

Say, why am I boring Abhi?

When I saw your post on 'Neutral', I thought you were talking about me.

Neutral is not boring to me. It prevents your ears from getting saturated from an extra of bass thump or shrill thump. So you can listen from longer periods, and that is good.

But then again, neutrality is just one component of a good system. The ability to put you at the music venue and sound natural is probably the most important thing.

Let me add some more vital things to get natural sound :

1.A good treated room along with good se-up as mentioned
above by me.
2.Well recorded material.
3.Top of all synergy between components, just paying lakhs
won't help..you gotta mate em good

Most of them have been voiced that way to appeal to “neutral sound brigade” who are after the most neutral sounding equipment at a very low/medium budget. A very clever trick indeed by some brands to mint money. I have a feeling it is this category of equipment that gave birth to this “boring – neutral” sound thing.

IMHO AA Puccini is one..IMHO please

Most of the CD's that are recorded are extremely poor in SQ, I like neutrality but not at the expense at losing the emotional content of the recording, the music I listen to if heard on a neutral setup would just DISGUST me, not that my setup is totally colored but it does what I expect from hi-fi.

We all listen differently I knowingly enjoy colored sound it excites me I have heard neutral setups but that just doesn't float my boat, but at the same time others dont like color so I guess it a very personal thing.

Regards,

Satyam.

Very good question abhi,I will put in a different manner.A particular type of sound is liked or disliked by a person during a given phase in their lives.As one ages,their experiences, their truths,and concepts change.I used to like the type of sound what SBFX talks about,however I have aged, had more experiences good and bad,which have shaped me into wanting extremely neutral sound.SBFX or Manek would not sit in the same room with me,if I had to choose my ideal system.Are they wrong,ofcourse not.Though my ideal system would be stark neutral and therefore more truthful to source,I could be further away in terms of emotion, therefore making them more correct even if it is coloured sound by my standards.Is my sound boring?No it isn't for me.BTW the best part is Manek and I have similar music tastes.I also like the type of music SBFX does.In the end it is about how you want your pizza made.
Deaf.

In the end it is about how you want your pizza made.

Does this add to my post that there needs to be spice according to everyone's taste.

SUB_BOSS schrieb:

In the end it is about how you want your pizza made. Does this add to my post that there needs to be spice according to everyone's taste. 8)

I'll take the plain cheese please.
Deaf.

I'll take the plain cheese please. Deaf.

How can you..atleast some sauce??
I like it with little spice and some WHISKEY..hey it's weekend and WHISKEY TIME is round the corner. BTW what do you drink to swing you into music

Yes, deaf and I share common tastes in music. We also share some common tastes in speakers, I may add. eg the manger driver....

sbfx and I seem to share the similar taste in sound as well.

Now that is a driver which deserves more discussion and audition. Would love to hear more speakers with these drivers.....The mangers are anything but "boring" but some people do find them so

Always wondered why but then again to each his own.

Pizza is fine but prefer a steak...medium is how I like it

Manek.

Manek schrieb:

Yes, deaf and I share common tastes in music. We also share some common tastes in speakers, I may add. eg the manger driver.... sbfx and I seem to share the similar taste in sound as well. Now that is a driver which deserves more discussion and audition. Would love to hear more speakers with these drivers.....The mangers are anything but "boring" but some people do find them so Always wondered why but then again to each his own. Pizza is fine but prefer a steak...medium is how I like it Manek.

The 103 what a speaker WOW!!! be all and end all for me at this moment till my listening pref's change, i.e. if deaf's theory is correct

The way a manger can reproduce mids is magical right there with the TOP3 loudspeakers of all times.

Satyam.

PS: Deaf any news for me?

YEP...smooooooooth !

deaf schrieb:

Very good question abhi,I will put in a different manner.A particular type of sound is liked or disliked by a person during a given phase in their lives.As one ages,their experiences, their truths,and concepts change.I used to like the type of sound what SBFX talks about,however I have aged, had more experiences good and bad,which have shaped me into wanting extremely neutral sound.SBFX or Manek would not sit in the same room with me,if I had to choose my ideal system.Are they wrong,ofcourse not.Though my ideal system would be stark neutral and therefore more truthful to source,I could be further away in terms of emotion, therefore making them more correct even if it is coloured sound by my standards.Is my sound boring?No it isn't for me.BTW the best part is Manek and I have similar music tastes.I also like the type of music SBFX does.In the end it is about how you want your pizza made. Deaf.

Dear Deaf,
What do you mean stark neutral ? Something thats truest to the source !!! Talking of a reasonably decent source, it cant be far from the actual instruments being played to record the music (If it is then its not a decent source) !! That implies your system sounds closest to the instruments that were used to record the track !! Then how can Manek or SBFX or any other guy wont like it ? I mean I cant believe that one can dislike instruments being played live, considering that your stark neutral system achives even 85% of that instrument's sound...it should be good enough to hook anyone to it instantly ?

I agree that Recording engineer could be adding his own 2 cents to it but how far can he deviate from the original, say around 5-10% (considring that he is not a DJ) ?
Ultimately we trust the recording engineer (we cant escape that) so lets not question his abilities unless until he is crap. Keeping that in mind, I believe a neutral system should PRESERVE all the emotions and tonal characteristics thats supposed to be heard out of the source and if that sounds boring, then the recording guy is big time moron and we are still bigger morons that we are following his recordings

Correct me if I am wrong isnt Neutrality/Accuracy/Natural are all synonymous ?

SBFX,
you say that you like neutrality but not at the expense of emotional content...how can a neutral system take away the emotional content (which is very vital) when it is not supposed to take away anything from the source

HI all,

Dear Deaf, please ask for processed cheese (which will spoil the pizza) there is no thing called plain cheese.
We all like our wine to taste good and unfortunately taste buds are like consumer audio they just dont have any reference standards worth talking off.

But most of the systems that I happen to like turned out to be classified as good sounding by the review gods and measured well on test bench of the technical guys. So have come to the conclusion that there is some truth in measurments and that the fine tuning done by the creator of product is what makes it coloured to some and neutral to others. A true neutral product shouldnt sound bad technically but then the room you put in speakers creates the biggest problem. If I carry on further you all may think of me like the editor of a British HiFI mag thought of a reader who asked a stupid query regarding room resonances "I think the biggest resonant cavity is in between your ears". The hifi equip manufacturers knows this fact and their advertisment agencies thrive on it.

abhi.pani schrieb:

I agree that Recording engineer could be adding his own 2 cents to it but how far can he deviate from the original, say around 5-10% (considring that he is not a DJ) ? Ultimately we trust the recording engineer (we cant escape that) so lets not question his abilities unless until he is crap. Keeping that in mind, I believe a neutral system should PRESERVE all the emotions and tonal characteristics thats supposed to be heard out of the source and if that sounds boring, then the recording guy is big time moron and we are still bigger morons that we are following his recordings

Not really most of the recordings I like are not that great in the sense they sound very compressed, the soundstage is confusing i.e. half the drum kit will play from the left speaker and the other half from the right same goes for Indian classical like the tabla and the santoor for instance, the quality of recording is down-right poor.

I think there maybe only 5% of all cd's that are normal music cd's are well recorded NOT audiophile cd's i.e. not a audiophile lable.

abhi.pani schrieb:

Correct me if I am wrong isnt Neutrality/Accuracy/Natural are all synonymous ?

No according to me a setup can be neutral but with a sense of warmth in it while it can very accurate with zero sense of warmth i.e. the mids would lack the bloom, the eletric guitar would lack that color which I enjoy and would sound boring to my ears.

abhi.pani schrieb:

SBFX, you say that you like neutrality but not at the expense of emotional content...how can a neutral system take away the emotional content (which is very vital) when it is not supposed to take away anything from the source :?

Again its almost the same thing I love the extension on the top end but I don’t like the setup to be analytical it should flow I don’t want to analyze every little i.e. most of the times very neutral setups start focusing on the flaws of the recording and you loose emotional contact with the music that is playing.

I love tubes it gives me the opportunity to tailor my sound to my taste and change the tubes for different moods and genres of music I play, also of course the hobby too

Currently I'm extremely pleased with my setup, it gives me the last bit of resolution thanks to my electro stat’s, with a mid-range to die for NEVER offensive very very very clean sounding and at the same time sounding very cohesive without being analytical.


Regards,

Satyam.

Hi SBFX,
Which speakers are you using ? If I am not wrong you got your self a Cadence Cannsya Tube Amp...

I am sorry abhi neutral is not boring, its very enjoyable.

Maybe what yu mean by neutral is laid back ?

There is a lot of confusion between neutral and laid back .....

Although no system i heard is not perfectly neutral (atleast what i heard)

When the music is biased you lose that subtle touches good recording are made of.
Did you hear a good recording ? For my kind its classical music and a lot of enjoyable experience depends on the recording and a good system .

The next time you go abroad go to a good classical symphony.

It will radically change your perceptions of music

sanathan schrieb:

I am sorry abhi neutral is not boring, its very enjoyable. Maybe what yu mean by neutral is laid back ? There is a lot of confusion between neutral and laid back ..... Although no system i heard is not perfectly neutral (atleast what i heard) When the music is biased you lose that subtle touches good recording are made of. Did you hear a good recording ? For my kind its classical music and a lot of enjoyable experience depends on the recording and a good system . The next time you go abroad go to a good classical symphony. It will radically change your perceptions of music

hi sanathan,

I dont think neutral is baid back at all infact its hmmmm almost in your face, being laid back is fun I love that quality but a stark neutral system avoids being laid back just puts forward whats there on the disc.

Regards,

Satyam.

abhi.pani schrieb:

Hi SBFX, Which speakers are you using ? If I am not wrong you got your self a Cadence Cannsya Tube Amp... :.

I'm using the Cadence Amaya, I also have the Merlin VSM along with a Hovland HP-100 and Canasya's.

Regards,

Satyam.

sbfx schrieb:

sanathan schrieb: I am sorry abhi neutral is not boring, its very enjoyable. Maybe what yu mean by neutral is laid back ? There is a lot of confusion between neutral and laid back ..... Although no system i heard is not perfectly neutral (atleast what i heard) When the music is biased you lose that subtle touches good recording are made of. Did you hear a good recording ? For my kind its classical music and a lot of enjoyable experience depends on the recording and a good system . The next time you go abroad go to a good classical symphony. It will radically change your perceptions of music hi sanathan, I dont think neutral is baid back at all infact its hmmmm almost in your face, being laid back is fun I love that quality but a stark neutral system avoids being laid back just puts forward whats there on the disc. Regards, Satyam.

So with a good recording, a neutral system would be the most enjoyble...considering that it would bring out all the emotions and the most accurate tonality !!

abhi.pani schrieb:

sbfx schrieb: sanathan schrieb: I am sorry abhi neutral is not boring, its very enjoyable. Maybe what yu mean by neutral is laid back ? There is a lot of confusion between neutral and laid back ..... Although no system i heard is not perfectly neutral (atleast what i heard) When the music is biased you lose that subtle touches good recording are made of. Did you hear a good recording ? For my kind its classical music and a lot of enjoyable experience depends on the recording and a good system . The next time you go abroad go to a good classical symphony. It will radically change your perceptions of music hi sanathan, I dont think neutral is baid back at all infact its hmmmm almost in your face, being laid back is fun I love that quality but a stark neutral system avoids being laid back just puts forward whats there on the disc. Regards, Satyam. So with a good recording, a neutral system would be the most enjoyble...considering that it would bring out all the emotions and the most accurate tonality !! :.

Well Yes and no, a stark neutral setup would be surely more honest to the piece being played but not necessarily better or worse it all depends on what ones pref's are and if you enjoy the color or not, but it surely would get unpleasant with the majority of the recordings. This is just my opinion.


Regards,

Satyam.

sbfx schrieb:

abhi.pani schrieb: sbfx schrieb: sanathan schrieb: I am sorry abhi neutral is not boring, its very enjoyable. Maybe what yu mean by neutral is laid back ? There is a lot of confusion between neutral and laid back ..... Although no system i heard is not perfectly neutral (atleast what i heard) When the music is biased you lose that subtle touches good recording are made of. Did you hear a good recording ? For my kind its classical music and a lot of enjoyable experience depends on the recording and a good system . The next time you go abroad go to a good classical symphony. It will radically change your perceptions of music hi sanathan, I dont think neutral is baid back at all infact its hmmmm almost in your face, being laid back is fun I love that quality but a stark neutral system avoids being laid back just puts forward whats there on the disc. Regards, Satyam. So with a good recording, a neutral system would be the most enjoyble...considering that it would bring out all the emotions and the most accurate tonality !! :. Well Yes and no, a stark neutral setup would be surely more honest to the piece being played but not necessarily better or worse it all depends on what ones pref's are and if you enjoy the color or not, but it surely would get unpleasant with the majority of the recordings. This is just my opinion. Regards, Satyam.

Color ummmm...why would one like to add color to something thats originally so musical...Its like would you add artificial flavour to an Alphonso !!

Well its more enjoyable to me and like I said before there are very few good rec's and I hate the idea of listening to audiophile cd's all the time.

Also I would like to know what is the most neutral setup you have heard? I ask this because there are maybe only 2 or 3 setups I have heard are absolutely neutral;
1.Gamut Speakers and Electronics
2.Vivid Audio (Very bland)
3.B&W 800 Sig (The BEST OF ALL Neutral setups I have heard)

There there is the Gryphon Trident which is very very neutral but it does have the house sound of gryphon which is extremely rich, the tone was beautiful but with a touch of honey.

The most colored setup I have enjoyed was the Zingali 215 WOW!!! in-fact most of the people disliked it but the sound was smooth could listen to it for hours.

At the end of the day one needs to get what they enjoy but I know it took me a fairly long time to understand what I wanted and what I wanted to get rid of from my setup.

Regards,

Satyam.

two other speakers which often form part of raves on neutrality and not so very well known are
1. Harbeth M40s.. well not exactly unknown
2. Gradient revolutions.

the gradients have a unusual tweeter combination and are pretty flexible in terms of placement combinations to provide pretty flat responses.

Am really hearing a lot in the Manger 109 and am really interested in hearing/auditoining one.

could not find any info on its sensitivity and power requirements.. anyone has any pointers ?

Arj schrieb:

could not find any info on its sensitivity and power requirements.. anyone has any pointers ?

found the sensitivity to be around 87.5.. any idea of what kind of power it likes ?

Arj schrieb:

Arj schrieb: could not find any info on its sensitivity and power requirements.. anyone has any pointers ? found the sensitivity to be around 87.5.. any idea of what kind of power it likes ?

Hi Arj,

The 109 needs 50+watts to sing the impedance of the speaker is fairly good as far as I remember it doesn't dip below 3.5/3ohms but one needs a amp thats fast otherwise it can sound sluggish to listen to.

Its an extremely smooth speaker to listen to, very natural and VERY not Hi-fi


Regards,

Satyam.

What i feel is the way would be compare the quality of specific instruments with what you have listened in a good concert. That would give better pointers .......

smooth/warm/bright etc etc are very relative.

If the sound reaches atleat 60-70% of live quality in the musical instruments(not the scale mind though)
one should be very happy

In this discussion about neutrality in speakers and amplifiers,we are neglecting the best source of neutral equipment - the studio monitors. Wouldn't active studio monitors with amplifiers carefully calibrated to compensate for the frequency aberrations of the drivers
provide the most accurate sound?

For eg. the Bryston - TMC combination is very popular in studios. As is the Dynaudios and the Tannoys. In India, equipment from Pulz and Sonodyne is available.

Is neutrality always good? That's dicey. Would you like Diana Krall's voice as is? Many would prefer adding a touch of colour to it to make it sound more lively. But a bright recording like George Michael. Most people would not want to colour it. It all depends on individual songs and how we would like them to sound. In a sense, we are all 'recording engineers'. We each have our own ideas on how something should sound.

So why neutrality? Not because it makes everything sound the best, but because it's convenient. Just have a neutral system and then select songs (recordings) that sound good on that setup. Who has the energy to tweak the equaliser (or setup) for each song?

So why neutrality? Not because it makes everything sound the best, but because it's convenient. Just have a neutral system and then select songs (recordings) that sound good on that setup. Who has the energy to tweak the equaliser (or setup) for each song?

Neutral I like your colored thought dude !

So why neutrality? Not because it makes everything sound the best, but because it's convenient. Just have a neutral system and then select songs (recordings) that sound good on that setup. Who has the energy to tweak the equaliser (or setup) for each song?

Neutral I like your colored or rather unneutral thought dude!

sbfx schrieb:

Hi Arj, The 109 needs 50+watts to sing the impedance of the speaker is fairly good as far as I remember it doesn't dip below 3.5/3ohms but one needs a amp thats fast otherwise it can sound sluggish to listen to. Its an extremely smooth speaker to listen to, very natural and VERY not Hi-fi Regards, Satyam.

thanks Satyam! am very much in the "Not Hifi " mode these days :

unfortunately have a very unhealthy love towards my amp these days and want to only fit in a speaker that can have a understanding relationship with it

Neutral schrieb:

So why neutrality? Not because it makes everything sound the best, but because it's convenient. Just have a neutral system and then select songs (recordings) that sound good on that setup. Who has the energy to tweak the equaliser (or setup) for each song?

I agree its convenient but to me thats restricting me greatly towards only well recorded software, theres a insane wealth of good music thats not recorded very well so.....

I guess this debate will be never-ending to me studio gear will never get me audio nirvana at the same time others will want otherwise

Regards,

Satyam.