How to identify Coloured Bass ??

Autor

Beitrag

abhi.pani
Inventar

#1 erstellt: 24. Mrz 2005, 16:54

This is a topic which if answered would make my experience of HiFi hunt the most memorable one...
In my short journey of Hifi, I have come across various terminologies. The most attractive as well as

confusing of them is BASS (to my perception)...The most commonly used terms are :

1. Deep Bass
2. Boomy Bass
3. Extended Bass
4. Tactile Bass
5. Coloured Bass (Most confusing)

Now here goes my point, It is quite easy to recognize Boomy Bass,
but how do we recognize coloured Bass ? Frankly speaking I find it difficult to identify until and unless there is a side-by-side comparo between two speakers...

In the other thread, Arj mentioned that thin MDF boards are used in cheaper speakers to produce coloured Bass. Arj, can you please elaborate on this ? I have seen some speakers use heavy MDF boards with good damping, and they rather sound decent (e.g Sonodyne Sonus 2605), did I misread it ?
Is it often true that MDF produces coloured bass ?

I know it is not easy to answer this type of questions straightaway, but this is the best arena to throw such doubts !!!!
Ok, now I will list down the factors which might contribute to Bass colouration,

1. Cabinet Material
2. Cabinet Design
3. Drivers used
4. Driver implementations
5. Crossovers
Please add on any other factors that you might think adds to Colouration of Bass.

So in general, from experiences please jot down in order, which are the factors you think contribute most to this colouration phenomena...Please be generous and give it a thought.

If we can reach to a consolidated conclusion then it would be very helpful in evaluating speakers (mainly the BASSSSS..) the next time.

Also how do we define Coloured Bass in the broader sense ?
Does coloured bass also depends on the ears of the listeners ?

stevieboy
Stammgast

#2 erstellt: 24. Mrz 2005, 18:13

tomorrow being holi if you play music you're sure to see a lot of colored bass

well seriously though coloured bass as the name suggests is bass that has 'color' added by various factors. most common i guess is not rigid enough cabinets and ports that are not well designed, adding extra 'loudness' or 'color' to the bass. true bass is never exaggerated. the amount being produced should be par with the amount of other frequencies like vocals, treble. and not overpowering the other frequencies. most autorickshaw sound systems (if you live in bombay) feature colored bass which goes boom, boom, boom or thump thump thump. its not defined and you can barely make out the vocals. even the treble is colored. with those harsh ssssss, sssss, ssssss blaring away.

happy easter to all u guys who'll be celebrating. and happy holi to all u guys who'll be celebrating holi.

stevieboy
Stammgast

#3 erstellt: 24. Mrz 2005, 18:17

just to add, i think the autorickshaw kind of coloring is probably due to the guy mangling the equaliser

and sheer bad drivers. not cabinet.

Manek
Inventar

#4 erstellt: 24. Mrz 2005, 18:38

1. Deep Bass
2. Boomy Bass
3. Extended Bass
4. Tactile Bass
5. Coloured Bass (Most confusing)

Deep/Extended bass would mean to me one and the same thing.
Boomy bass has a lot of err...err...BOOM !
Tactile bass is what is completely real, most tangible.
Coloured bass not tactile.

manek.

Arj
Inventar

#5 erstellt: 25. Mrz 2005, 07:21

colored Bass ? never heard that term

By "coloured sound" the meaning conveyed is that the sound is not authentic when compared to the recording. hence if the Bass guitar, Drum or any other "Bass" sound does not sound as it should primarily due to the Enclosure adding its own sound, it could be said to be colured by bthe speaker.

Again it is not the enclosure , but the design which is important.
speakers by Audionote, harbeth and even Sonus faber, among others, have been designed to include the cabinet response.

harbeth monitors or even Audionote have very very thin cabinets , which really resonate. but the sound is still neutral. hence the speaker design is optimised for the cabinet !

Sounus faber calls its speakers as musical instruments..hence although very thick the cabinets are designed to enhance the music.

hence it is not the thickness of the cabinet which is important , but the design of the speaker..

On the other hand, the term colour is very subjective. i am sure most of us would find a neutral speaker very very boring !. it is very often the "colour" of the speaker that makes us like it or not like it. if it were not for that signature..all speakers would have sounded very alike !

big-ears
Stammgast

#6 erstellt: 25. Mrz 2005, 11:52

Agree with you Arj.

Abhi, it is sound coloration and not coloured bass.

All speakers color the sound to varying degrees, irrespective of the cost, and depending upon the preferences of the designer. Although some speakers are more neutral (tonally correct) than others, no speaker reproduces the audio spectrum,i.e., the complete range of human hearing precisely, and has some degree of deviation built in. This deviation is known as coloration. This explains the phenomena of some speakers having a bright sound, or a strong midrange, or even very deep bass.

Arj has summed up the cabinet design / construction part very well. It all depends upon how good the designer is and what he has in mind. Thinner paneling is not bad per se, if the designer has factored in its effects vis-a-vis the end result. For eg, Triangle speakers have thin walled, sparsely braced cabinets and yet are known for fast and satisfying bass. On the other hand there are many behemoths weighing 100 plus kgs each and also giving you fast and accurate bass.

The context in which we spoke of thinner panels earlier is lower budget speakers. If, thin mdf panels and sparse bracing is an integral part of the design, fine. But, if a manufacturer resorts to thinner panelling and reduced internal bracing just to cut costs, so that he can include a low priced floorstander in his product range, then this is what the buyer should be wary of.

[Beitrag von big-ears am 25. Mrz 2005, 11:57 bearbeitet]

Arj
Inventar

#7 erstellt: 25. Mrz 2005, 12:32

very true Big Ears.
usually bass would not be very coloured. coloration is more apparent and more frequent in the 1Khz to 6khz range..and it is this band which is usually the cause of Brightness, sibilance, dark sound etc.

this range varies the most from person to person as the "hearing curve" is not straight and neither the same from person to person

Manek
Inventar

#8 erstellt: 28. Mrz 2005, 07:22

Another speaker manufacturer which uses the resonance of its cabinet structure is Bosendorfer. They actually design cabinets to perform like a sounding board of a piano....well to each his own design.

manek.

abhi.pani
Inventar

#9 erstellt: 28. Mrz 2005, 12:39

So, I seem to understand the meaning of sound colouration better than before but still what dominates my mind is how to handle them i.e

1. How to identify the amount and nature of colouration...i.e how far is the exaggeration of sound from the flat response and are they for the good ?

2. Will it be okay to say that if your ears like them then go for it or one should be careful about them even if you like them.

3. One point that is mentioned in the replies above is that flat speakers are boring to listen !!! Is this true most often or it is true for particular kind of music ?

4. Most of the examples given in the replies seems to be higher end speakers where things are quite refined and the colouration is intentional and done for the good, but when it comes to below 35k range where price control is as much a factor as musicality, here there is quite a bit of chance that Colouration is a side-effect of cheaper goods and also a trick to trap the customers with unrealistic sound.
Since I am a buyer in this range of speakers so I just want to know, what are the possible steps I can take while auditioning a speaker to find out how far is the response neutral and that the sound coming out is technology rather than tricky stuffs.....Its difficult to explain some things but you people got to help me Man !!
One thing is sure that I cant buy something that doesnt sound good to me but want to be aware of tricky stuffs as well...e.g Sonodyne Sonus2605 Towers uses MDF for its cabinet and Peerless drivers, they sound quite good to me but again the use of MDF seems to be a '?' to me, Whereas the overall weight of the speakers is 20.5 kg which again shows that it is well built !! How to handle this kind of situation or should I simply take these things lightly and listen to the speakers for as long as possible to come to a conclusion ?

big-ears
Stammgast

#10 erstellt: 28. Mrz 2005, 13:51

Abhi,

Can understand your dilemna, but there is no quick way of learning. Since we are not exactly spoilt for choice in India, the only thing one can do is to listen to as many products available, as possible. It is also very, very important to listen to well reviewed higher end stuff, because that will give you an idea as to how good hifi is supposed to sound. Once you have an idea of the kind of imaging, resolution, soundstaging and tight natural bass the good higher end products are capable of, try to see if any of these attributes are present in the speakers in your price range. Once you have narrowed down your options, it will now come down to your preferences, so check out which of the speakers short-listed sounds good to your ears. It now becomes extremely subjective - you already have an example, a Yamaha which sounds fine to me, simply did nothing to your ears.

Manek
Inventar

#11 erstellt: 28. Mrz 2005, 14:15

abhi,
most speakers today...low end or high end use MDF in various thicknesses so perish the thought that mdf is bad. its good. it has certian damping characteristics which speaker manufacturers want and thats one of the reasons they use it.

secondly, remember the speaker frequency response may be flat but does that ensure correct instrument timbre ? I think not. There are far more trickier things like phase/time alignent, phase coherence etc...etc.

So what should you do and look for in 35k floorstander ? first try and demo the speakers with acoustic instruments like the acoustic guitar(not the electric one), piano, violin, trumpet, saxaphone etc....see if the sound timbre is close to what the instrument would sound like if played in front of you. Rock and pop can be avoided initially as most rock and pop instruments in todays music are not even played by a musician. No chance of finding true instrument timbre with that !

Secondly listen to vocals of good singers, people who can Sing and not the pop..... variety, who knows if its their own voice or a digitally altered one. Check particularly for female vocals...if you notice a lot of nasal quality to them then pass onto the next speaker. Female voices are tricky to get right becuase the lower octaves are rendered by the mid/bas unit and the higher ones from the tweeter. Notice if the female voice keeps jumping from mid to tweeter and back, pass on to the next speaker. Check for sibilance in voices...too sibilant then walk on....

There are other things to look for or avoid in a speaker like time alignment, ear fatigue, bass boom, cleanliness of the midrange and trebles, squeaky violins in an orchestral piece, congestion when playing a large orchestral piece, ear piercing treble etc etc etc.

I'm sure other would love to add to this.........

BUT trust your ears only as you have to live with the speakers and hear them every day. If you dont like what you hear after shelling out 35k then you are in big trouble buddy :-)

As far as your comment on "flat speakers sound boring", not true....just depends on the listener.

Manek.