Tata Sky: First impression and some queries

I think that flicker is a result of too much digital compression. Some channels are resorting to that. Not only the image flickers, but its almost lifeless. No texture, grain. Just an image.

A couple of words on DTH, picture quality and digital compression.

There has been a prolonged anticipation for the Tata Sky DTH service. In fact in some cases the anticipation has led to unrealistic expectation in terms of their service.

Inherently, the Tata Sky and Dish TV service are technically on par though Tata Sky has 12 transponders while Dish TV, currently being osted on an interim, NSS satellite has only 6 transponders.

Dish TV, has been in operation for around 2 years and has much larger bouquet of channels than Tata Sky. This has led to the need for greater digital compression rto be applied by Dish TV compared to Tata Sky which has relatively fewer channels.

Neither Dish TV nor Tata Sky ACTUALLY DELIVER DVD quality video or Audio. This is due to the mode of transmission and the bandwidth that is typically allocated for digital transmission on (expensive) satellite transponders.

Even if you read their ads carefully, they claim NEAR DVD quality for video and audio.

The DTH boxes by both, Tata Sky and Dish TV offered only a composite video output. This is the most basic, vanilla flavoured video quality. No S video or component video is offered by their current range of DTH STBs.

HD TV - Nope.

The sound is in sterio where the specific channel offers sterio to begin with. E.g. MTV, etc. will have sterio but not Doordarshan national !

VIDEO COMPRESSION

A word about video compression.... Excessive video compression leads to a SHARPER picture with almost etched out outlines. Video compression reduces the gradual variations and replaces them with abrupt variations. To the untrained eye, these appear as a more dramatic picture but in fact the subtle nuances and variations are lost.

This is similar(loosely speaking) to listening to music with the LOUDNESS CONTROL on. the music sounds dramatic initially but soon causes fatigue.

All the See bouquet appears to have poor quality on Tata Sky. Similarly the Star channels will not appear as god on Dish TV !

The reasons for this are behind the scene enemity between these 2 platforms.

The fact is that Zee has provided only consumer grade STBs to Tata Sky. Hence the feel that Tata Sky gets at its uplink centre is not much better than what the cable operator or a consumer would receive. After retransmission by Tata Sky, the signal quality is badly affected.

Digital Cable TV is around the corner in select areas of Mumbai, Delhi & Kolkata. In fact most areas in this city is already receives digital transmission.

If you are located in the cities, PLEASE CHECK WITH YOUR LOCAL CABLE OPERATOR FOR A DIGITAL SET TOP BOX.

THIS IS THE BEST INVESTMNET YOU CAN MAKE FOR GREAT PICTURE AND STERIO SOUND from your cablewalla.

Digital CATV has also been rolled out in parts of Bangalore, Hyderabad and various other cities. Check with yur local cable guy.

In Mumbai I receive 175 digital channels, with excellent clarity on my 34 inch CRT TV, for no additional cost over my regular cable connection, except for the price of the STB.

wow! that certainly was informative ampnut!

Thanks for the very interesting read on DTH. Very informative.

Neither Dish TV nor Tata Sky ACTUALLY DELIVER DVD quality video or Audio.

Ya, they dont..and one shouldnt expect that as well so soon.
But they do deliver very good clarity.

A word about video compression.... Excessive video compression leads to a SHARPER picture with almost etched out outlines. Video compression reduces the gradual variations and replaces them with abrupt variations. To the untrained eye, these appear as a more dramatic picture but in fact the subtle nuances and variations are lost. This is similar(loosely speaking) to listening to music with the LOUDNESS CONTROL on. the music sounds dramatic initially but soon causes fatigue.

True...I noticed that though the picture was very clear but it was more dramatic than real. The picture did lack the ulitimate word called "Life". I didnt know how to express it initially but amp_nut helped me with his explanations. But still the fact that they appear 100 times clearer than the local analog cable TV is a good enough reason to be happy.

All the See bouquet appears to have poor quality on Tata Sky. Similarly the Star channels will not appear as god on Dish TV ! The reasons for this are behind the scene enemity between these 2 platforms. The fact is that Zee has provided only consumer grade STBs to Tata Sky. Hence the feel that Tata Sky gets at its uplink centre is not much better than what the cable operator or a consumer would receive. After retransmission by Tata Sky, the signal quality is badly affected.

This is bad.....why should the public suffer for internal rivalry ? They should find out a more reasonable solution to this...

Digital Cable TV is around the corner in select areas of Mumbai, Delhi & Kolkata. In fact most areas in this city is already receives digital transmission. If you are located in the cities, PLEASE CHECK WITH YOUR LOCAL CABLE OPERATOR FOR A DIGITAL SET TOP BOX. THIS IS THE BEST INVESTMNET YOU CAN MAKE FOR GREAT PICTURE AND STERIO SOUND from your cablewalla.

Isnt Digital cable TV subject to Digital Video Compression...why should it look better than DTH or Tata Sky ? How are they different ?

But still the fact that they appear 100 times clearer than the local analog cable TV is a good enough reason to be happy.

True.... But Analog TV delivered with with poor signals is now history, for Most of us who live in larger towns and cities.

Do excercise your Dital CATV Option, Specially since it means Nothing more than the 1 time STB cost of approx Rs 3,000.

Isnt Digital cable TV subject to Digital Video Compression...why should it look better than DTH or Tata Sky ? How are they different ?

True... Both DTH and CATV use digital compression. But to fully understand the details, lets look at both delivery methods closely ( Without getting toooo technical, I hope ! )

Ku band Satellite transmissions use a Trasponder pumping out approx 55 Watts of Signal. This signal suffers approx 200 dB power loss ( 3 dB is half power !!! ) before it reaches ground level.

Hence the Dish to collect as much signal as possible and focus it to the LNB at the Dish Focal point. Even then, only a fewe Pico Watts gets to the LNB.
( Pico is 1 millionth of 1 millionth watt ! )
To get a reasonable TV picture, a form of Digital Modulation called QPSK is used, which does not carry too much of info, but carries it well, even for very miniscule signal levels.

Large satellite bamdwidth required even to carry small amount of Digital signal. Hence need to compress the digitised signal much more ( High Compression, more pic quality loss ) to carry multiple channels on a satellite transponder. ( Most satellite Transponders are 36 MHz wide and carry about 12 channels.

Dish Has recemtly bought the state-of-the-art stuff from SCOPUS, an Israli company that can squeeze about 25 Channels per transponder, with little perceived loss in pic quality.


Cable TV on the other hand typically operates with signals of approx 1 milli Volt or about 1 Thousanth of a volt.

Cable TV ( PAL B/G used in India and Germany ) uses 7 MHz to 8 MHz per analog TV Channel.

The signal is VERY robust and a Very efficient digital modulation called QAM 64 or QAM 128 or QAM 256 is used. This can madulate a HUGE about of digital data / ppicture, so TONS of compression is not REALLY necessary.

You can squeeze 12 digital channels in the sapace of 1 analog CATV ( cable TV ) channel without breaking into a sweat.

Hope that answers your question.

Sadly, almost ALL Cable TV signals are thouse received from a satellite. ... Like converting a 64K mp3 file into a 256K mp3 file. What was not there in the fisrt place .....

If you wanna see a High Def Pic, yr current choice in India is to get the HD samsung DVD Playerr and a HD Disc from abroad... about 10 movies were available in this format a couple of mobnths ago. Also make sure yr TV is HD, and HD Compatible with the DVD Player !

There are over 16 HD standards... not all compatible....

Early adopters, please note

Wow, Amp_nut ,you really are a master1 Will cetainly now wait for the launch of Digital cable TV in Delhi before moving further. Thanks!
Kamal

The HD player that Samsung advertises is not exactly a true HD player but it upscales content like DVD. I am not aware of any Samsung player in India that plays HD-DVD or Blu-ray.

And anyways all the LCD TVs that are currently been sold in the INdian market are only 1080i. Maybe some of the more expensive ones are 1080p?? Anyone aware of any 1080P capable displays in the INdian market?

Will cetainly now wait for the launch of Digital cable TV in Delhi before moving further. Thanks! Kamal

Kamal, if you have a feed from Siti Cable ( Now WWIL ) or InCable or Hathway, you Already Have digital cable. You only need a digital STB... a One time purchase.

If you are in the CAS area of either Delhi, Mumbai, Kolkata or Chennai, then on 1st Jan 2007, ALL you Pay Channels will be Shut Off on the existing Analog system ( By Law ! ).

You WILL have to buy / hire a digital STB ( Re 1 per day ) and select ANY pay channels that you want to watch at Rs 5 per channel per month.

The Specific Areas where Analog Pay Channels will be switched off in Mumbai, Delhi & Kolkatta are :

(i) In the Municipal Council of Greater Mumbai, the area to the West of the main line of Central Railway between Chatrapathi Shivaji Terminus (CST) station and Sion Railway Station,including the area from Navy Nagar (in the south) upto the CST railway Station (in the north), including Ballard Estate, bound by the Sion-Bandra Link Road and the Mahim Causeway on the northern side and includes the areas Colaba, RC Church, World Trade Centre, Maker Towers, Nariman Point, Cuffe Prade, Fort, Fountain, Bombay Stock Market, Prince of Wales Museum, CIDCO, Marine Drive Gateway of India, Horniman Circle, Reserve Bank of India, Churchgate, Ballard Estate, Town Hall, Shahid Bhagat Singh Road, Madam Cama Road, Veer Nariman Road, Mahatma Gandhi Road, Dr. Dadabhai Navroji Marg, Marine Lines, Charni Road, Kalbadevi, Thakurdwar, Girgaum, Walkeshwar Road, Nepensea Road, Cumbala Hill, Malabar Hill, Grant Road, Khetwadi, Breach Candy, Peddar Road, Hajiali, Mahalaxmi, Worli, Tardeo, Altomout Road, Dr. Dadasheb Bhadkamkar Marg, Sardar Vallabhai Patel Road, Saat Rasta, Lala Lajpatrai Marg, Mahalakshmi Race Course, Dr. Annie Besant Marg, N.M. Joshi Marg, Gokhale Road, Dr. Moses Road, Prabhadevi, Dadar (West), Shivaji Park, Cadell Road, Lady Jamshedji Road, Sitladevi Road, Mahim, Gen Arunkumar Vidya Marg.

(ii)In the National Capital Territory of Delhi, the area covering Chanakyapuri, Motibagh, Vasant Vihar, Safderjung, Vasantkunj, Chattarpur, Madangir, Kalkaji, Sarita Vihar, Maharani Bagh; bounded in the East by Yamuna River (from Delhi-Haryana border near Badarpur to Bhairon Marg; bounded in the West by Wellington Crescent, Sardar Patel Marg, NH8 (from Dhaulakuan to Gurgaon Border); bounded in the South byDelhi-Haryan border (from Gurgaon to Badarpur and Yamuna river); bounded in the North by Bhairon Marg, Rajpath (from National Stadium to Vijay Chowk), Parliament House, Talkatora Road upto Ram Manohar Lohia Hospital.

(iii)In the Kolkata Metropolitan Area, the areas whose northern boundary is the eastern bank of the river Hooghly up to the confluence with Tolly’s Nalla on the right; eastern boundary is the line along the western bank of Tolly’s Nalla starting from its confluence with river Hooghly in the north, running south down along the Tolly’s Nalla/Kaorapukur Khal to the mouzas of Magurkhali; Southern Boundary is along the line following the southern boundaries of mouzas Magurkhali, Ramjibanpur, Sajnaberia, Gopalnagar, Kalua, Hanspukuria area within Police Station Behala proceeding towards the southern boundaries of mouzas Kalagachhia, Sankharipota, Naoabad, Khanberia, Chandigar, Shibhugli and Rameshwarpur within Police Station Maheshtola.

Thereafter the same line following the southern boundaries of mouzas Betuabi Rajarampur, Santoshpur, Uttar Raipur, Benjan Haria Charial, Eastern and southern mouzas of Nischintapur and southern boundaries of mouzas of Uttar Ramchandrapur, Raghunathpur, Rajarampur, Achhipur within Police Station Budge Budge.

And then proceeding further westward in a straight line and meeting the western boundary-line of District 24 Parganas in the river Hooghly; and western boundary is the line along the east bank of river Hooghly starting from the confluence of Tolly’s Nalla running south-south-west where it meets the line of District 24 Parganas in the river Hooghly.

(iv) Chennai Metropolitan area.

{Footnote:-The Notification S.O.39(E) dated 14th January, 2003 was published in the Gazette of India {Extraordinary] dated 14th January, 2003 in Part II, Section 3, Sub-section (ii)]

Ronnie22 said

The HD player that Samsung advertises is not exactly a true HD player but it upscales content like DVD.

Thanks for the correction, Ronnie.

Thanks for the detailed info, Amp_nut.
Yup, I'm covered ,geographically-but am not getting the feed from any of the three providers you named.
Our cable guy is a bit of a shady character, don't really know where he's getting the signal, currently-the quality is so uneven.Worse, he has a monopoly for our area!
Lets see if the onset of CAS brings any difference in our lot;if it does not, at least DTH is now an alternative.
Regards,
Kamal

That was very detailed. Thanks.

To my eyes, both the signals (CAS or Dish/Tata) seemed equally good. Sometimes the Dish signal seemed better but that could be due to the images been sharper due to compression (as amp_nut had pointed out).

However the nuisance casued by calling the cable guy ever so frequently due to signal quality deterioration is reason enough for me to switch to DIsh. Also HBO and Star Movies have been blocked out by the Mumbai cable guys for the past 2 months.

Hi Kamal,

If you are covered geographically, there is a HUGE chance that you are already Digital enabled.

Call & Ask your cable operator for an STB.

VERY often, the small time cable operator is a 'sub-operator' ie he takes a feed from a large MSO such as Siti Cable or InCable or Hathway.

The Digital service ( & Huge investment of several Crores of Rupees ) is made by the MSO. The sub operator is simply a frannchiseee, who retails the signal.

Make that tel call....

Ronnie22 said

However the nuisance casued by calling the cable guy ever so frequently due to signal quality deterioration is reason enough for me to switch to DIsh.

Hi Ronnie,

I agree with you, but that could be only an initial respite. Outdoor wiring and installations ... Cable or DTH need maintainance.

Remember there is NO ONE to call to re-align your dish for free, of fix a problem later.

The DTH Dish is yours & You Have To Fix it ..... for forever in future. The monsoons being particularly bad times when the breeze could mis-align your dish or cause connectors to go bad, or ...

It appears you are in Mumbai, and Mumbai has probably one of the best Cable services available. The digital quality is Superb, even when Measured 20 Kms from the Headend.

Check out the digital option..

The DTH Dish is yours & You Have To Fix it ..... for forever in future. The monsoons being particularly bad times when the breeze could mis-align your dish or cause connectors to go bad, or ...

Tata Sky has fixed a common dedicated dish (90cm) on the top of our Apartment building, catering to all our flats through that one single dish. All we have to do is buy the digital STB and they connect it to the dish. They give a "LIFETIME WARRANTY AND SERVICE" on this fixture. Only the STB has one year warranty. Other all issues regarding Dish Alignment, Wiring problems, signal issues will be maintained free of cost by Tata Sky people for lifetime.

Only if you are applying for a dedicated dish for yourself (the small one) then you get a free service for one year and then it becomes chargeable. In both cases the STB has an warranty of 1 year.

So check both these options out while opting for Tata sky.

Yes, what you have is the MDU ( master Dwelling Unit) option.

Check the fine print.

1. The entire installation belongs to Tata Sky, and nt yr society.

2. ( I think ) your society cannpt throw them out... for any reason.

3. ( I think ) you cannot use their wiring tio connect any other DTH provider's STBs...

I am planning to go for the DD DTH service...(only free to air channels ) Has anyone bought this?
I heard that they are planning to increase the number of channels to 50 or so...

DD DTH already has 50 or so channels.... after promising them for over 1 year.

However many channekls are repeats on different transponders, so while there ARE 50 channels, they are Not 50 UNIQUE Channels !!!

All Channels on DD's Free-To-Air Ku Band service are free channels, already available on Most cable TV systems all over India.

Incidentally, DD DTH is NOT a DTH service and it is Blatantly Illegal of DD to call it a DTH service.

According to the DTH Norms, DD is NOT ELIGIBLE to operate a DTH service, but then the govt is a law to itself... !

While chatting with the Public regulator, I once took this up, terming the DD *DTH* ad as illegal, and he told me with a twinkle in his eye.....

Many Govt agencies dont bother about licences. Did you know that MTNL does not have a Telecom licence ??

For your reference, a list of Channels on DD Direct +

( As on 30th Sept 2006 )

Transponder Freq: 10977 MHz; Horizontal Polarisation:
Gyandarshan, Jain TV, ETV Marathi, DD Urdu, Jaya TV, Headlines Today, DD Punjab, DD Sahyadri, DD Saptagiri; FM Rainbow Mumbai, FM Rainbow Bangalore, AIR Oriya


Transponder Freq: 12534 MHz; Horizontal Polarisation:
Kairali TV, DW TV, ETC Punjabi, Zee Smile, Aaj Tak, Zee Music, Sun News, Sun TV, TV 9, Star Utsav; FM Gold, AIR Kannada, AIR Bangla, AIR Hindi, AIR NE, AIR Punjabi


Transponder Freq: 12647 MHz; Horizontal Polarisation:
DD National, DD News, DD Sports, DD Bharati, DD India, DD Bangla, DD Karnataka, DD Gujarati, DD Kashmir, DD Malyalam, DD Lok Sabha; AIR Vividh Bharati, AIR Tamil, AIR Marathi, AIR Gujarati, FM Rainbow

Transponder Freq: 12688 Horizontal Polarisation:
DD News, DD Bangla, DD Chandana, DD Gujarati, DD Kashir, DD Malyalam, DD Oriya, DD Podhigai, DD News, DD Bharati, DD India

Transponder Freq: 12729 MHz; Vertical Polarisation:
DD NE, DD Oriya, DD Podhigai, DD Punjab, DD Sahyadri, DD Saptagiri, DD Malyalam, Mh1, Aakaash, DD Rajya Sabha; FM Gold, FM Rainbow, AIR Punjabi, AIR Gujarati

hmmm thats not very good news

Honestly I am disappointed with both Tata-sky and Dish TV.
Its just direct to home with hardly any customization....whats the point in giving a 30-40 channel bouquet? I mean I dont watch 75% of the channels that I will end up paying....so there is no difference in what the cable guy offers and what DTH offers. (apart from the picture and sound quality improvements which too have been debatable)

As per the latest TRAI pay channel rule, the tariff has been fixed at 5 per channel...does it mean a person can opt for services on per channel basis?

Looks like I have to stick on with my cable guy for some more time!

kvish said :

As per the latest TRAI pay channel rule, the tariff has been fixed at 5 per channel...does it mean a person can opt for services on per channel basis?

YES ! If you live in the CAS areas, then you get to choose channels individually at Rs 5 per channel !

Generally, it is believed that each home does not regularly watch more than 20 channels. Hence globally, Set Top Boxes usually provide for a max of 20 Favourite channels.

Going by that logic, in the CAS areas, post 1st Jan 2007, each subscriber would pay Rs 77 + Tax per month for the basic cable TV service + Rs 5 per DIGITAL pay channel ... that he is free to pick and choose ! If he chooses 20 extra DIGITAL PAY channels, his total bill will be only Rs 77 + Rs 5x20 + Tax = Rs 177 +Tax.

If he decides on 10 Digital Pay Channels, the bill will be only Rs 77 + Rs 50 = Rs 127 + Taxes

Amp_Nut schrieb:

YES ! If you live in the CAS areas, then you get to choose channels individually at Rs 5 per channel !

Ohh thats interesting......but no idea when CAS is coming to Bangalore

Its just direct to home with hardly any customization....whats the point in giving a 30-40 channel bouquet? I mean I dont watch 75% of the channels that I will end up paying....so there is no difference in what the cable guy offers and what DTH offers. (apart from the picture and sound quality improvements which too have been debatable)

Dear Kvish,
You dont have to be so disspointed. Look buddy, the picture and sound clarity that Tata Sky offers is far far far more superior to the local cable guy. The debate is not between local analog cable Vs Tata sky, its between Tata Sky and other digital cables. So if you dont have other options, you can safely go for Tata sky with a 200 rupees per month rental and enjoy 100 CLEAN channels. Thats economical IMHO.

We can definitely expect much better technologies in future, but thats then. May be even these DTH service provider would upgrade to better technologies when they are introduced and in demand. But as of now DTH is ONE of the best things that you can bring home to IMO.

abhi.pani schrieb:

So if you dont have other options, you can safely go for Tata sky with a 200 rupees per month rental and enjoy 100 CLEAN channels. Thats economical IMHO.

This is exactly the trap that I didnt want to fall into.. I heard that prices would be close to 400 rupees or even more for the 100 channels once the "introductory offer" is over..
[Infact you can check in dishtv, the maxi package comes to 300+taxes... ]
Ofcourse there is no debating of whether DTH is better than local cable...but its really not what everyone expected... and one would have expected some good new channels too... (may be I am expecting too much )

Just going off topic: Has anyone checked out the IPTV offered through MTNL broadband?