Challenge for Indian manufacturers

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Neutral
Stammgast

#1 erstellt: 06. Sep 2006, 11:40

On Sunday, I visited the sprawling Bang & Olufsen (B&O) showroom in Nungambakkam at Chennai. It was a good experience. Those guys produce killer designs. They have perfected the rare art of industrial design and are far ahead of most other international brands. Local brands are no match at all for their design capabilities.

I checked out their BeoVision 5 HT setup which included a huge LCD TV and the BeoLab 5 speakers (as fronts), the BeoLab 3 speakers (as rears), and a BeoCenter speaker. The sound was fairly impressive for Hotel California in terms of dynamics and the beat. The BeoLab 5 speakers are huge and pack punch. The sound is not as refined as say a Magnepan MG-12 and may not be the most natural and smooth, but should be good enough to please most folks.

Now only if these guys would get the price right (they quoted me 23 lakhs)

Lots of non-audiophile lifestyle folks would fall in love with these things.

I wish our Indian manufacturers would copy these designs [just the looks :)]. Imagine these designs at affordable Torvin prices

I want to check out Ritchie street to see if some smart Chinese entrepreneur thinks out of the box.

http://www.bang-oluf...ms&sub=ls&prodid=544

Could someone please explain to me what those large silver plates on the speaker do? Is there some logic to this and the tapering cone shapes that dominate these speakers? Or are they just fancy designs?

http://www.bang-oluf...ms&sub=ls&prodid=565

I also checked out the BeoLab 4 speakers in a stereo setup backed by a sub, but they sounded awful. Distorted to my taste. Or maybe listening to the 5 first spoiled me

Amp_Nut
Inventar

#2 erstellt: 06. Sep 2006, 13:22

Could someone please explain to me what those large silver plates on the speaker do? Is there some logic to this and the tapering cone shapes that dominate these speakers? Or are they just fancy designs?

These are sound reflectors. Check out a nice review at :

http://www.ultraaudio.com/equipment/bang_olufsen_beolab_5.htm

Incidentally, the speakers are active and EACH speaqker has 2500 Watts of B&O's digital ICE amplifiers built in. B&O has since sold its ICE business..

I agree... B&O styling is to die for

Arj
Inventar

#3 erstellt: 06. Sep 2006, 16:22

their sound is excellent too..problem is value for money..but again they are not meant to be value for money.. just money

liked them so much that i actually bought a B&O earphone ..its not bad..

SDhawan
Stammgast

#4 erstellt: 06. Sep 2006, 16:49

Please don't challange Indian manufacturer for copying - they excel in that. It's different matter that in the pure pursuit of copying the quality gets left far behind.

And beware man they can even copy the price

without any reference to VFM but to CFM (Copy for money -

)

Sanjay

Neutral
Stammgast

#5 erstellt: 06. Sep 2006, 17:00

Arj schrieb:

their sound is excellent too..problem is value for money..but again they are not meant to be value for money.. just money

I trust that you are referring to the BeoLab 5. The other stuff won't do for stereo.

Arj schrieb:

liked them so much that i actually bought a B&O earphone ..its not bad..

You deserved to be whacked for being so un-audiophile

If you wanted something cute, Etymotic and Shure earphones would have steamrolled any B&O stuff.

Neutral
Stammgast

#6 erstellt: 06. Sep 2006, 17:12

SDhawan schrieb:

without any reference to VFM but to CFM (Copy for money -

)

Sanjay

Sadly, Sanjay, I doubt those guys could copy design. They are too focused on the low-end. The good side is they won't charge too much. No one can beat the B&O guys for charges.

Some of our honourable commercial forum members proudly announce clones that are CFM

. But I guess they can't get the finish right.

The only Indian manufacturer that knows how to visually design is Sonodyne. Their Genies not only sound good, but also look good. Other manufacturers get the sound right (Pulz, Norge, etc) and are VFM, but their products look like they belong on a shopfloor, rather than a living room.

Neutral
Stammgast

#7 erstellt: 06. Sep 2006, 17:42

I wish manufacturers would be honest. How do these numbers add up?
----------------------------------------------------
BeoLab 5 data from their pdf:

POWER CONSUMPTION Typical 40 W, standby < 2 W
POWER AMPLIFIER, LOWER BASS 1.000 watts, Class D, ICEpower
POWER AMPLIFIER, UPPER BASS 1.000 watts, Class D, ICEpower
POWER AMPLIFIER, MID-RANGE 250 watts, Class D, ICEpower
POWER AMPLIFIER, TREBLE 250 watts, Class D, ICEpower
With 2500 watts of power in each loudspeaker, it can deliver a sound performance that is comparable to any sound you can hear in a cinema.
-----------------------------------------------------

How does a power consumption of 40W generate 2500 watts of output power? Ok crap from a China-made minicompo, but not from a high-end pricey brand.

Arj
Inventar

#8 erstellt: 06. Sep 2006, 17:57

Neutral schrieb:

hi neutral, to me Nowhere do they mention output power.

All these nos mean are
1. It is an Active system
2. It is a 4 driver system with each driver having its own Power amp
3. The Power capacity of each of the above power amps to deliver current is 250-1000 W
4. in a typical room typical usage the power consumption is 40W.

Eg if you used a NAD 320 BEE with a 90 db Speaker in a 12x14 room

Idle power = around 5W
Power rating of he amp = 50 W
typical usage is around 10W

If you replace the NAD 320 with a say Krell KAV400,

only the power rating will change to 200 W the reast will more or less be the same (maybe due to a higher class A bias the idle power consumption would be higher)

the only difference from the B&O is that there are 4 amps hence more nos for POwer rating .

Class D are notoriously efficient as much as 85-95 % hence although they may have a rating of 1000W it only relates to dynamic power ..RMS required would be much much less

Amp_Nut
Inventar

#9 erstellt: 06. Sep 2006, 18:47

Etymotic and Shure earphones would have steamrolled any B&O stuff.

Are the Etymotic and Shure earphones available in India ?

Any indicative prices ?

Thanks

Neutral
Stammgast

#10 erstellt: 06. Sep 2006, 18:54

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Etymotic and Shure earphones would have steamrolled any B&O stuff.

Are the Etymotic and Shure earphones available in India ?

Any indicative prices ?

Thanks

There was a post in this forum about a place on Lamington road that sells imported headphones. Try a search. Else ask Bombay regulars like Shahrukh, Manek etc.

abhi.pani
Inventar

#11 erstellt: 06. Sep 2006, 20:01

liked them so much that i actually bought a B&O earphone ..its not bad..

and how much did you pay..$1000

reignofchaos
Stammgast

#12 erstellt: 06. Sep 2006, 20:43

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Etymotic and Shure earphones would have steamrolled any B&O stuff.

Are the Etymotic and Shure earphones available in India ?

Any indicative prices ?

Thanks

There's a shure dealer on hosur road in bangalore. He quoted me around 5000 for the e2c (sells for 70$ odd). Etymotic is available in a different brand name... Altec Lansing IM716. No idea of price. I find IEMs painful if used for moderate to long durations.

Arj
Inventar

#13 erstellt: 06. Sep 2006, 22:23

Neutral schrieb:

You deserved to be whacked for being so un-audiophile

Pardon me for I have sinned. I have been a very very bad boy

Neutral schrieb:

If you wanted something cute, Etymotic and Shure earphones would have steamrolled any B&O stuff.

problem is you need to jam them in your ears which makes walking around very difficult as
-you cannot hear anything else
- any motion actually creats the equivalent of a "Boom" in your ear.. i have a sony Ex71 for travel which is good enough for that. Advantage of the B&O is it is not really a in the ear phone, but it has these nice earclips which hold it in place ...and its cute

[Beitrag von Arj am 06. Sep 2006, 22:25 bearbeitet]

Neutral
Stammgast

#14 erstellt: 07. Sep 2006, 08:27

Arj schrieb:

Neutral schrieb:

You deserved to be whacked for being so un-audiophile

Pardon me for I have sinned. I have been a very very bad boy

You have already paid the "B&O price" for your actions. Only your wife can forgive you

Neutral schrieb:

If you wanted something cute, Etymotic and Shure earphones would have steamrolled any B&O stuff.

Arj schrieb:

Yes Arjun, audiophile bliss is not the only consideration. It's important to be practical and comfortable. -30dB of isolation of in-canal phones makes them good for night use when no one will disturb you. Not really suitable for travelling, cooking etc. As for the boom, I guess the headphone cord acts like a mic. Any way of clamping the cord down and reducing this microphony.

Just the B&O looks like it has a secure clip and it must be comfy. I like my Grado SR60s but they are not comfortable for extended use. They are also too big for the road.

Neutral
Stammgast

#15 erstellt: 07. Sep 2006, 08:33

Neutral schrieb:

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Etymotic and Shure earphones would have steamrolled any B&O stuff.

Are the Etymotic and Shure earphones available in India ?

Any indicative prices ?

Thanks

There was a post in this forum about a place on Lamington road that sells imported headphones. Try a search. Else ask Bombay regulars like Shahrukh, Manek etc.

Narain Electronics in Bombay:
Neutral wrote:
Ouch !

Bhagwan, where exactly is Narain Electronics. I will look up the Grados if I have forgotten the pain, that is. Sennheiser is plain fabulous but then at $450 not for the casual listener and a headphone amp is certainly necessary.

Get to Lamington Road, on the side of the Police Station walk towards Opera House, it is 6 or 7 buildings away, on the 1st floor. He sells Audio Technica [This is the Head Phone that I use]. I had the 590 from Sennheiser but these are definately much better.
Narain also sells other studio gear, mics + mixer + studio monitors etc.

Regards,

BHAGWAN69

http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-59-949.html

Try Narain Electronics. Maybe he can get stuff for you. I got my Grados through my US-based sister, but if you don't have a relative in the US, this will be convenient.

reignofchaos
Stammgast

#16 erstellt: 07. Sep 2006, 09:54

You can get the sennheiser HD-555 which is fairly decent for around 7300 rupees here:

http://theitdepot.com/Products.asp?cat=1036&prod=12067

Its a fairly good pair even when unamped as it is only 50ohms unlike all the other higher end sennheisers. That site also has the 595 for 12000 odd.