hi-fi thoughts...and invariable decisions

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#1 erstellt: 12. Nov 2004, 20:56
hi guys,
some valuable inputs from you all.
decided to buy Cambridge Audio Amplifier Azur 640a and Cambridge Audio Azur 640c, Cannot decide on the speakers to go with it, Floor Standers is my preference.
Do you guys think it's a sound buy at 43000 ( 640a & 640c )
#2 erstellt: 16. Nov 2004, 08:20

where are you located ? what currency are we talking about ?

#3 erstellt: 16. Nov 2004, 20:18
It can't be $ or pound
#4 erstellt: 17. Nov 2004, 10:12
not for cambridge audio

If its ruppees then try and get atleast a 10% discount on the two.

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#5 erstellt: 22. Nov 2004, 12:57
sdhawan, manek and arj
you are the same guys who replied to my two post and i guess you all are from india too.
well i have decided that i will not go in for the cambridge duo as i have read on the net that thay are not of good quality and they are selling because they mimick there expensive compeititors , but for how long they will last don't know. also to put it to your notice after what manek said to ask for a discount of atleast 10% on 43000, you guys won't beleive i have one dealer ready to give it to me for 34000, yes both of them.
second i did decide to go with rotel power amp Rb-1070 and Rc-1070 pre with a rotel Rcd-1072, i am getting all three for 70000 rs, but then i heard cayin tube ampifier and now i am back to square one, they did seem to have a good sound and if i go in with that i save a couple of money but again is cayin better then rotel you guys have to answer that as you seem to be much informative about amplifiers.
third i have to decide on bookshelf or floor standers and the option with my budget is
dali concept 6
dali blue 6006
tannoy fusion 4
canton le 190
acoustic energy evo 3
i want to spend somewhere around 80000 rs on my system
any advice how will i get the best sound with that kind of money.
#6 erstellt: 22. Nov 2004, 16:10

You mentioned cayin tube amp but forgot to mention the model or price. Tube amps do sound good but you need the right speakers for tubes.....I would personally go in for tube amplifiers that are self/auto biasing. Its quite a pain to take them to the workshop/service station for re-biasing from time to time(depends on the usage). Secondly buy tube amps which have commonly available tubes. Make sure you are not left at the mercy of only the dealer for tubes. Buy tube friendly speakers which have a gentle impedance curve and sensitivity in the region of 89-91+db.
I dont know if there are any choices in the market for entry level tube amps besides cayin in the range of 30-40k. Cadence has a splendid tube amp at 36 watts(9 watts class A) called the va 1.0HP but its expensive somewhere in the region of 70K with taxes.

quad tubes are amazingly expensive too.
Oceanic sound in pune sells jolida integrated amps with tube pre and solid state power sections. Maybe you could talk to them.

Try sourcing a marantz pm7200 integrated solid state if you can. I like the marantz sound better than Rotel. The cayin T-35 I heard does sound better than rotel. Rotel will pack more power but power isnt everything. The cayin is not self biasing I was told. If you are in a city or area of a city where power fluctuations are common occurence every day, tube amps must be used with care and with proper power protection like a spike guard/line filter and a good servo voltage stabilizer.

#7 erstellt: 22. Nov 2004, 16:37
Manek is on the Dot.
further more not sure of rplacement tubes and availability, the stock tubes definitely would need to be replaced by a NOS variety.

Regarding Speakers, if going for a tube setup, the Tannoys will sing.

Dlais and Cnatons are both good..but you wither need to get a fix on the Amp or on the speaker before buying the other as Synergy betwen systems is more important than the individual components..

try to listen to speakers and get a fix on that first then go for the Amp..
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#8 erstellt: 22. Nov 2004, 21:44
hi manek, arj
i live in bombay city and the model of cayin is Mt-35, i heard them with dali blue series 6006 speakers and cambridge audio 640c cd player as a source, they sounded amaizing.
but as manek said they are not self biasing, but the dealer told me i can do it myself it is very easy, once he shows me i can do it anytime i find a differnce in my sound. as far as replacement tubes are concerned again the dealer said they are using the amp for almost a year now without biasing and changing the tubes and the tubes mearly cost 500 rs for cayin if i ever had to change it, and they have plenty of them in stock and also if i want they will change the tubes to some american company one's if i decide to go in for that, i am offered a price of 30000 rs for the cayin mt-35 either with the tubes that come with cayin or the american tubes, the choice is on me, but will it make a difference if i change it. dali blue series 6006 for another 30000 rs and cambridge audio 640c for rs 20000. is it a good deal to bang my hammer on and close the deal,i kinda really liked the sound they gave, but manek has put me into doubts about the biasing and the availabilty of tubes from different vendors and he is right, never gave a thought to it, HELP MANEK AGAIN. should i go with the deal does it sound like heaven at dot rs 80000 as i budgeted .
second i have heard cadence in pune but i think i am not ready at the moment for that kind of a sound and money, they might be good but not at the moment for me.
i used to have a polk audio monitor series 4a, a technics suv450 amplifier and a teac cd player, but now it is lying in the garage the amp just stopped working, actually i din't play them for a year or so, but i din't bother to repair it as i have an excuse of buying a new one now.
the more i hear and read on the net the more my choices become wider and i try to get the best out of my deal.
now heaR this out , options as under
rotel rb-03 - 15000 ( power amp )
rotel rc-03 - 15000 ( pre amp )
rotel rcd-02 - 20500 ( cd player )
Klipsch rb-35 - 23000 ( bookshelf and yes they sound awsome and look sexy too )
net 73000 rs

rotel ra-02 - 19500 ( amp )
rotel rcd-02 - 20500 ( cd player )
heard and read a lot of the above two together, good reviews and lot of satisfied customers.
with a bookshelf from tannoy fusion 2 at rs 15500
cool 555000 rs, god i am saving money at last..:)

marantz pm7200 for 23000 rs
marantz 5400 limited edition 16000 rs

you guys will kill me now with my options, but i am true to what i say and confused too that is why i am here

rotel ra-1062 integrated amp - 32000
rotel rb-1070 power amp - 25000
rotel rc-1070 pre amp - 20500
rotel rcd-1072 cd player - 28000
speakers to go with it again a big ?
i am going crazy
hear from you soon.
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#9 erstellt: 23. Nov 2004, 08:40
no post yet from you guys
anyways forgot to tell you
i am getting 5 whole years of warranty on rotel,
should i slowly build up my system cause if i buy the 1070 duo i will be left with only 35000 rs in hand cause it cost 45000 rs. i don't want to buy something now just because it is in my budget and regret later on when i have the money.
my one thought goes something like this
buy the power and the pre 1070, buy a good pair of speaker at the moment, connect it to my computer were in i have 200 gb of music and wait for the money to buy the cd player. i can call for arcam from uk in january, or should i wait for the sacd player.
other question is my room is 12*14 should i go for a 130*2 power amplifier that is rb-1070 or a 70*2 power amplifier rb-1050 which can save a bit of money say 5000 rs and i can put the same amount more in my speaker choices. the pre amp remains the same for both.
after what i thought on what manek said about the biasing and tube availabilty from vendors i was thinking over it all night and though i like the sound of the cayin, dali, cambridge together and it is in my budget i still get worried on what if i have to run around for tubes and biasing.
last should i go in for bookshelfs
tannoy fusion 2 - 16000
klipsch rb-35 - 23000
kplipsch rb-25 - 20000
heybrook 2 - 16000
mission - ? is also available but din't enquire.
or stick to floorstanders
which will go best according to you all with the rotel.
MANEK, Arj, Dhawan.....and other cool hi-fi wizards...Help
#10 erstellt: 23. Nov 2004, 10:41
hey....so many questions !!! WOW ! let me try and simplify it for you.

Do you like the sound of rotel ? if you do, go for the rotel and buy speakers which sound good with it.

Do you like the sound of the cayin more than rotel ? if so buy the cayin with the matching speakers. I dont know if you an handle the biasing of the amp yourself but see the procedure and be the judge. Do ask them which american tubes are they talking about and cost. I assume your introduction to cayin was at soundsmiths. If so I dont think they have sold a whole lot of cayin tube amps in bombay or other cities to keep a large stock of tubes as they say or for that matter other spares as well so be carefull.

Also do remember most products in India are thru dealers. The 5 yr warranty is subject to that dealer being in buisness for the next 5 years and especially with that brand :-)

About the question of bookshelves, if you get the sound you want from bookshelves go for them otherwise floorstanders it is. Since you have auditioned them you should be the best judge. I went for bookshelfs as my bookshelfs gave me what I wanted and more for my room and music.

So you be the judge of what kind of sound you like and dont go by others judgement on sound. Its your ears that matter. Do consider the support issues that Arj and I have mentioned though.

#11 erstellt: 23. Nov 2004, 20:59

First I'm no wizard in audio.

Second, I'm biased towards 3-way floorstanders.

Third, I have absolutely no idea of tube amps. But I do know that after-sales support is extremely important where the stakes are high (I would be more peaceful buying a humble Maruti than an exotic Daewoo).

Fourth, I don't find MP3 and music through computers very appealing (it's OK as a travel survival kit - I carry MP3 on a CF card and play them on my Palmtop when I travel). Cheapest of the CD Players would be a better option than hooking your beloved audio system to a computer.

Fifth, what wattage? Match it to the speakers and your ears.

Sixth, more the choices (or opinions) more is the confusion.

Seventh, bye!

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#12 erstellt: 23. Nov 2004, 21:33
you are right manek , soundsmith are the people who i am having a demo with.
are you from bombay too, my mail id is xeejeo@yahoo.com send me your contact number will like to talk to you.
well i heard a all new amplifier today, infact two of them, one a cayin integrated 100 watts amp and the other cayin 265 Ai and belive me it is hell of an amp, the size is enormous so is the weight you cannot lift that amp, and it cost a bomb 69000 rs truely a class A amp with 40w/rms, that's it, check it out here http://www.hometheat...mplifier-3-2004.html
what do you guys say about this beast now.
second i went to rotel dealer again and this time i auditioned the rotel ra-01 amp which is similar to ra-02 without the remote and the rotel rcd-02 cd player with dali concept 6 and i should bring to your notice amp-14000,cd palyer-20000,speaker 24000 a total of 58000.
hear them and you will find them to rock you, i was in trance when i heard the price and the sound it gave, i think i am quite well versed with so many systems i have heard and auditioned that i am in the league of rating them now, and i rate the trio as number 1 or say a five star.
i am taking my cd's tomorrow and a whole lot of bunch i have 2000 cds with me.....surprised and i am going to check out the cayin 265ai, i am willing to spend so much just on the looks, the heavy weight it carries, the sound......delicious, and i am never going to burp with it
i am 34 now and i think i will buy the best as the last system lasted me for 18 years and still working, so i think this will be my final purchase for the rest of my life, so why not give it a best shot, pray for me guys that i collect the money....:KR
will let you know by tomorrow how my day went.
#13 erstellt: 24. Nov 2004, 09:32

ojoi schrieb:
no post yet from you guys
anyways forgot to tell you
last should i go in for bookshelfs
tannoy fusion 2 - 16000
klipsch rb-35 - 23000
kplipsch rb-25 - 20000
heybrook 2 - 16000
mission - ? is also available but din't enquire.
or stick to floorstanders
which will go best according to you all with the rotel.

If going for rotel..dont do with Klipsch. Klipssh goes wonderfully with warm sounding amps especially tubes.I own one (RF3) and hence know

Heybrook has a great midrange..but lacks Bass..from what I have heard

Tannoy should go very well and so should Mission
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#14 erstellt: 25. Nov 2004, 21:00
hi guys
cayin was..... speechless, but right now rezalized can't spend that much
cayin 265ai 69000
final choices give me your best shot on this one

marantz pm7200 amplifier - 23000
marantz 5400 cd player - 14000
tannoy fusion 4 - 28000

cambridge audio 640 duo - 37000
dali concept 6 - 25000

rotel ra-02 amp - 19000
rotel rcd-02 cd player - 19000
dali 6006 or tannoy

rotel rb-03 power amp - 15000
rotel rc-03 pre amp - 15000
rotel rcd-02 cd layer - 20000
tannoy fusion 2 - 14000

or do you think this is worth..though i can spend on these systems too

cayin 265ai amp - 45000
dali 6006 speakers - 34000
marantz 7300 cd player - 20000

spend a whole lakh , will i ever regret spending so much,
if you were in my place what would you guys do, i can do anything of the above, i just need your choice now, say you could do the same.
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#15 erstellt: 25. Nov 2004, 21:07
oh i forgot,
cayin is a pure class a amp, now some queries but do give me choices for the system in hand with you guys if you had to chose from the above, say you too had a lakh to spare.

class a ?

1. will it consume a lot of electricity...i have read on the net it is like running an air conditior, it consumes that much power

2. i have read class a amplifiers are inefficent....ineffecient in what ? they sounded good to me, is it that i won't be able to run them for too long or else it will trip or burn out, or will it suffer in delivering the quality sound in prolonged use...?

3. it is just 40w at 8/6/2 ohms no changes in watts according to ohms, will it damage my speakers if they demand more or vice versa in use.

4. and other pro's and cons you guys can put in

pls reply to the above quaries
and give me your votes too
thanks guys, i think after this i will post the picture of my system.
#16 erstellt: 26. Nov 2004, 08:07
ojoi, if I were you I would go with marantz.

Class A amps are called inefficient due to their heat dissipation characteristics....Simply put they consume a lot of power and comparatively not too much of an output and a lot of energy is given off as heat as a result. But the sound from them is very very good. Not to forget a good class AB design could match a class A design as well.

#17 erstellt: 26. Nov 2004, 08:10
Well, Pure class A efficiency ranges from 10-20 % only hence 40 W could have between 200-400W.
If speakers need more power, chances are that the Amp will clip... if the Amp does clip it could damage the speakers .

If you are going to go ahead with the Tannoys, your Ears would clip before the amp even starts to feel the heat hence you should be OK

You would need to listen to find what works best for you, but for a CDp would recommend the Rotel over the marantz..and with the Cayin would recommed the tanniy.

rest is upto you
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#18 erstellt: 26. Nov 2004, 08:38
none of you guys answered my question the way i want it to be
first, if you had a choice what would you guys go in for.
second, so was i right that the amp will consume power like an air conditioner, not worth the power (wts) it delivers, and yes i read yesterday on the net that class AB amps can match the sound of class A amp, but which one ?
come on guys i live in a room 0f 12*12 , if you had to fill that room up for a system and had say 50000 to 100000 to spend give me your expertise.
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#19 erstellt: 26. Nov 2004, 11:11
Nobody in the world can tell you which is the best system for 50000/- or 1 lakh (even more). It all depends on your ears, your music and your room.
It's better u go listen to all the systems you have shortlisted. They are all good system in their price range.
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#20 erstellt: 26. Nov 2004, 12:25

Just my 2 cents - I would go for the Rotel Pre/Power combo with large speakers like Dali 6006/Concept 6 or the Tannoy 4 / Mission 34s.
The Rotel combos has some good reviews and would be better than the integrated amps.

#21 erstellt: 26. Nov 2004, 14:04
Hi! Ojoi,
As you mentioned that ur room is 12 x 12, you will not require a lot of power in terms of watts. You have to decide wheather you want clarity or power.

If you are looking at ultimate clarity then go in for the cayin 265ai amp - 45000
dali 6006 speakers - 34000
marantz 7300 cd player - 20000

What the hell, you do not buy systems everyday/month, this is done once in a while so why not jump to a different level if you can rather than starting from the bottom. The Class A amps are amazing and yes they do consume a lot of power, Remember that if the volume control is ZERO or the amp is left on the they consume max power as you go higher in the volume, the consumption decreases, this is only if the circuit is like the Cadence VA-1HP where it is Pure Class A in 9watts and after that till 36watts in Class AB. First find out in the amp is a Pure Class A throughtout its full power bandwidth.

Now if you want a mix of say 50% clarity and 50% power then go in for :-
rotel rb-03 power amp - 15000
rotel rc-03 pre amp - 15000
rotel rcd-02 cd layer - 20000

This combo is a killer, however personally did not like the Tannoys. Will never recommend them due to harshness and build quality problems. Once had a Tannoy tower where the entire back panel become loose. IF you like the sound of the Tannoy then go in for it. After all loudspeakers are very subjective. Pls remembere this is my two bit and do buy what you like. Also don't forget that it alldepends on the following:

And lastly look at it like an investment, not a purchase. Do not forget to spend atleast 10% of the total cost on cables. Otherwise no use you buying good equipment without proper cables. I hope you do have a servo stabilizer.


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#22 erstellt: 26. Nov 2004, 16:42
wow pritvi,
you had a good one
yes cayin 265ai is a pure class amplifier throughtout its full power bandwidth, but will i pay a hefty electricity bill, i play almost 4 hrs daily.
i have an inclination on cayin it looks amazing, and well built too, but i am still confused cause it becomes so hot you can cook on it, so worry's me if i have to pay a lot in terms of electricity, it becomes hot so much in an air condition room , and i don't have one, will i have to put that too, just wondering how hot will it be without one.
and what servo stabiliser, don't tell me i will need that one too, how much will it cost and where to get it from and what is the best if i consider one.
#23 erstellt: 27. Nov 2004, 14:15
Hi! Ojoi,
It is better you get a servo stabilizer from VERTEX, can be sourced all over india. If you problems let me know, can ship one or ask the company guys to do so for you.

Yes the Class A amps are really hot, saw the PASS LABS XA200 which are pure class A 200 full watts rms, you touch them u get burned, and by the way can fry an egg on top of them.

When I had the VA-1 which is a pure 20w rms class A, I use to keep it on all the time and the bill was not that high, dont mind paying for it as the enjoyment I got was worth every extra rupee spent on current. You say you use it for four hours, then dont worry the bill will not be so much. By the way my listening room/office is not air-conditioned and yes does get hot, so what, good things dont come in life easy. IF I were you I would pick up the cayin and not look back.

Just remember to much advise from all of us will make you to confused that you may go and buy junk and then after a week you repent for buying the stuff, happend to a few of my clients, who came back crying for not listening and taking professional advice. Listen to your heart & your ears buddy. Go with the flow.

Just got the CAMBRIDGE AUDIO 540A & 540C for demo, still in its package will remove it tomorrow and have a blast. Want to come then call me and we will have a nice listening session with few beers. Will be getting the soon the ProAc Studio 125 towers and a Burmester for a very hi-end client.Sadly the burmester will straight to his place.

You need any more info then let me know. But again just go with the flow.

All the best and remembere its an investment buddy. Look long term. Thats what important.

Bye have to rush or my wife will kill me, she says I am married to HIFI. Well thats life.

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#24 erstellt: 27. Nov 2004, 16:59
well you can give me your contact number on xeejeo@yahoo.com
will definately call you and hope to meet you and finalise my system, thanks prithvi,
hey were are you guys...manek, arj..... have not heard from you, keep on posting your thoughts.
you all can give me your conatct numbers on xeejeo@yahoo.com
#25 erstellt: 28. Nov 2004, 12:58
Hi! Ojoi,
You can contact me on 98440-94669.
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#26 erstellt: 28. Nov 2004, 14:19
hi prthivi
let us start a live session on yahoo messenger
my id is xeejeo@yahoo.com, add me to your messenger and we can chat, others are welcome too, manek , arj,......
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#27 erstellt: 29. Nov 2004, 14:08
BLOWN AGAIN...............:L
Canton Ergo 702, so tight, so perfect, so sweet
i am surprised why someone has not mentioned canton speakers out here, my perfect recomendation please give a hearing to canton, i am amazed at the debt, clarity, perfection, imaging, soundstage and everything this speaker is capable of...ooooff, mind blowing
heard it with two combinations, both sounded good

rotel rb1070 power amp
rotel rc1070 pre amp
rotel rcd1072 cd player

rotel rb03 power amp
rotel rc03 pre amp
rotel rcd02 cd player

MANEK if you are from bombay go and listen to this piece of art , yes art , cause you will not like any other speakers after having a look at this one, it is crafted to perfection, wood and real veneer, solid built, perfection to minute details no speaker comes closer to this ones finish and fancy.
cost 76000 a pair...which bank is the weakest in security..:angel
#28 erstellt: 29. Nov 2004, 20:10
Ojoi, there are thousands of speaker manufacturers of excellent speakers of which only 100 or so might be well known (Eg Ohm Walsh- Amazing Speakers..). and each person would find some speaker that would match exactly what one wants so there is no end to it. B ut in the end speakers are only one part..though a very significant part of the chain.
Apparently the best way to assemble the system of yur dreams is first
1. Choose your IDeal room for music
2. Choose the speaker which soundes BEST in that room
3 Choose the best Amp which can drive the speakers in the best way
4. Choose the BEST cdp you can buya and which complements your setup.
now go for the best cables you can.

that way you may not think of upgrading for a little while longer

Burt sin ceyou have found the spekaer which does it for you..you can move on to the next stage.

for me, There were two speakers which I loved but can never afford. the first an Avant garde Uno i think must have spent m ore than a hour listening to some vague chinese singer who sounded divine..and the second a JM labs Alto Utopia Be......

The same cd was boring on a NAD-Quad system .....just to illustrate what a good setup can do to any music..
#29 erstellt: 30. Nov 2004, 08:06
ojoi...I heard the canton.
Very nice bass. Very accurate bass timing which sadly most other speakers cheap or expensive just dont seem to have except cadence and canton. Found a bass timing lag even in the dynaudio range upto the contour S3.4.
Its definately to do with phase/time alignment of the drivers within their cabinet and a little bit with the amplification. One must look out for phase/time aligned configurations of speakers. They make a hell of a lot of difference to sound. The crossovers implemented within them also play a very major role.

Yes, canton has very good build quality and so do other speakers like dynaudio, cadence, sonus farber, quad, audio physic etc. You need to hear and see these speakers. Promise you you'll be blown yet again :-)

I heard canton with the rotel setup and I thought they deserved better, to be honest. Somehow the rotel line just does not impress me at all. Heard rotel with kef reference line and was disapppointed. Heard rotel with B&W and was again disapponted. Rotel and my ears just dont gel and that is why I have not recommended the rotel to you ever. But the canton is a good speaker...very well built.

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#30 erstellt: 30. Nov 2004, 18:59
okay guys......time to wind up......it has to end somewhere..:)

finally this is what i have put my much earned hard money

Rotel RB 1070 Power Amplifier
Rotel RC 1070 Pre Amplifier

Canton LE 109 Tower Speakers.

CD Player is not yet purchased, have started a new topic on it, now guys don't kill me for that, cause i will eat your head now , but will leave you peaceful for the next ten years or so i guess..........please do pay heed and give your thoughts on the cd player in that topic.

#31 erstellt: 01. Dez 2004, 07:57

ojoi schrieb:
but will leave you peaceful for the next ten years or so i guess

Though I doubt the above statement..wait for a year or so
#32 erstellt: 29. Dez 2004, 10:03
hey ojoi i'm in quite the same position as you. though the only difference is i'm looking at a set up for a couple of years. have decided on nad 320BEE amp, cd player nad 521 though if i spend more on speakers i'll probably pick up a sony dvd player for the time being and play cd's through it. shouldn't be too bad i guess. speakers i'm keen on b&w dm 303. that way i get good sound and can add a subwoofer when budget permits. and they can always go into another room when i get my permanent system. or as surrounds. no waste. am looking at options for speakers though. need to listen to a few. just starting off on my auditioning rounds cos am setting up in april / may. looking for quality sound rather than loudness/more bass. how much were the cantons? would be interesting to hear them
Schaut ab und zu mal vorbei
#33 erstellt: 28. Sep 2005, 13:50
Dear Prithvi,
From where did you buy your Canton speakers in Mumbai.
Kindly let me know the best prices from where you have drawn for dali 6006.

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