PrimaLuna prologue 1

Prima Luna Prologue 1 and Cayin TA30 IMO are identical amps.
The only notable difference is the auto biasing. Both the amps have same specifications. Both use Nichison and Realcaps capacitors, electro harmonix tubes and ALPS volume control. The construction inside and outside is identical . Looks like same facility making both these amps.

then it would be interesting to know if they sound the same...do they ? auto bias does have its advantages.

Manek.

Yes, auto bias is an advantage. But biasing is easy... i do it myself.
Changing the bottles will give you more satisfaction if you bias them yourself :).

Both amps are made by SPARK. Same amp same shit, different brand.
Rgds

Prithvi

But people are raving and paying for these shit. That shows these shit are worth their value.

Hi! Myraid,
I meant "SHIT"in the literal sence! Its the same electronics ditto in both amps, except diff tubes.
Rgds

Prithvi

Hallo! Es ist nich "nur" AutoBias. Es ist Adaptive AutoBias. Das heisst dass die Bias nicht unbedingt FEST ist, aber auch -ein wenig- Signalabhängig. Das macht eine bessere Wiedergabe, keine Verlust in "power" un bis 50% weniger Verzerrung. Weiter sind noch einige Änderungen daran (Ausgangstransformatore sind anders!!, einige Condensatoren sind geändert, wie die Diode). Das Chassis ist jetzt PrimaLuna exclusive. Verzeihung für schlechtes Deutsch.

M.fr.Gr.

Herman van den Dungen
Durob Audio BV - Niederlande
Weltvertrieb PrimaLuna

Sorry, I just noticed the rest of the mail is in English. Much easier for me. As I tried to say in German: it's not just AutoBias, it is ADAPTIVE Autobias, which means that the musicsignal has a slight influence on the biassetting. A little bit of help when needed, so to say. So little it does not have a negative effect!! This way of biasing is easier of course (you don't have to look at it), does not take any power away that you need for your music signal and further the distortion can become till 50% lower! Also some parts in the design are upgrade (other-better and matched outputtransformers, some changes in capacitor and diodes). The TA-30/35 is no longer in production and the chassis we use is our PrimaLuna exclusive. Preamp and stereo-poweramps will be introduced in April, mono-amps are planned for june.

Hermanito,
Welcome to the forum, its great to have manufacturers joining in so that we can get the correct tech info on their products. How do you compare the luna1 to the luna2?
Rgds

Prithvi

PS: heard ur amps are available in India, but have not seen a single advert so far.

I meant Prologue1 & 2.
Rgds
prithvi

Hallo Prithvi,

Thanks for answer. Yes, correct information is often difficult to get. The Audio-industry is a community where people "talk" often more than "listen" ... :).

ProLogue One and Two are basically the same design, except for the tubes of course. Some (the important) capacitors are higher grade in the Two and we use special diodes instead of standard rectifier bridge.

A very important factor in both these amps as well as in the upcoming Four and Five is the Adaptive Auto Bias board. Best possible control of the bias, without loss of power and till 50% less distortion.

It is true that some people can re-adjust the bias, but we do not want to limit the ownership of PrimaLuna amps to those few people and we do not want to create dangerous situations for the others. It is more than just replacing a battery ... and as said the Adaptive (!) Auto Bias is an important factor for the improved sound of the circuit.

Yes, we have a small importer in India who wants to grow with the line. Are you from India? If so, how can we get the maximum of information about the market in this big country?

Have a nice sunday!

Hermanito

Hey Hermanito,
Who imports them in India,and how much they retail(Cost),in India?
Thanks.

Sushil Anand. Does that ring a bell to you? Guess price is about the same as overhere.

Best regards,

Hermanito

If the price is same,what's the contact details of Sushil Anand?
Regards.

I copy from the internet:

Sole Distributor In India for Premium Audio-Visual Brands

Nova Audio Private Limited

Registered Office

8 Punam Co-Operative Society
29/30 Road #5 Union Park Khar(W)

Mumbai 400 052.

Contact Mr. Sushil Anand

Mr. Sanjay Thakur
T 91-22-26 00 7700
v 91-22-26 05 4709

mailto:novaudio@vsnl.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exclusive Showroom

Mumbai

The Music Lounge (Opening Shortly)

B-104 Gagangiri Carter Road Khar (W)

Mumbai 400 052.


------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Hermanito,

Is Prima Luna coming out with any tube based cdp in near future?

That's for sure! We produce the AH! Njoe Tjoeb 4000, so it is nothining less than logic that we come with a PrimaLuna tube based cdplayer (and tuner).

Best regards,

Herman

How much warranty support will be there , if someone bues from Indian Impoter

I have read very favourable reviews of AH! Njoe Tjoeb 4000 and 6000.
Are these players available in India?

The PrimaLuna distributor in India has to give same warranty as we do. 6 months on the tubes and 24 months on the amplifier. Good thing is that the amps have proven to be extremely reliable. A faulty tube here and there and only ONE bad capacitor after a few thousand units sold.

We have not set up distribution for AH! in India, but the players are available worldwide as we send worldwide without charging freight and insurance if no distributor is locally available.

Best regards,

Herman van den Dungen

I have recently bought the Prima Luna Prologue-2.

Absolutely DELIGHTED with the sound. Provides TONS of info, without "spot-lighting" any specific frequency band or musical instrument. Still VERY detailed, but not fatigueing.

I am surprised that the Prologue-2 drives my In-efficient Exremas ( 88dB sensivity ) is a fairly large room ( 25 ft x 18 ft x 12 feet height).

I have, until not been a Solid State Fan, and have been a serious audiophile for more than 20 years. As a friend commented on my shift " another SS guy down the Tube ! " :-)

Dinyar
P.S; This amp is NO shit !

Anyone knows the website for Prima Luna ? Where can I download their User manual ? ( It did not come with one )

Dear Dinyar,

Great! I will email you the pdf file for PrimaLuna ProLogue Two. Normally that should be included with the amplifier.

Mmmm Extrema's! These are pretty difficult if not the most difficult ... I have customers (including Kevind Deal from USA) who tried the PrimaLuna's on big speakers like SF Stradivari, but these are far easier than the SF Extrema's. But what a nice "Bulldog-type" design. I always loved these speaker. I use Guarneri myself and one of my people said this morning while he was visiting me "Why don't you exchange your Guarneri speakers against the ones which we have in the warehouse and are special Amati-color (red-orange)".

We are -since (too) long time- working on the PrimaLuna website, but of course it is not ready yet ... but you can find what we have on www.primaluna.be.

Hope that the amplifier will give your years of pleasure!

Best regards,

Herman van den Dungen

now that's what i call customer service.
my first two paychecks are going towards a spanking new tube.

Benks

Thanks for your prompt reply.

I dont know about the years of pleasure.... I am pretty sure that I will !

I think I have already got my money's worth in the past 15 days ( and nights ) !

The Future is just a BONUS !

Thanks ! :-)

Looking forward to that pdf file :-)

Hi! Dinyar,
So nice to see you join this forum. Great to see u here! Wow, am shocked , you of all people changed from SS to TUBE, well wow, I too am a tube freak (thxs to cadence atleast for this one)

Will be getting a demo model from Sushil when he gets stock.
Herman is a great guy, As ben said it, customer service is what counts. Instant responce herman, excellent, keep it up:D

Wish cadence guys would wake up, looks very soon we might have a cadence cricket team and no more cadence audio!

Hi! Dinyar,
So nice to see you join this forum. Great to see u here! Wow, am shocked , you of all people changed from SS to TUBE, well wow, I too am a tube freak (thxs to cadence atleast for this one)

Will be getting a demo model from Sushil when he gets stock.
Herman is a great guy, As ben said it, customer service is what counts. Instant responce herman, excellent, keep it up:D

Wish cadence guys would wake up, looks like very soon we might have a cadence cricket team and no more cadence audio!

Hermanito,

What is the difference between Prologue 1 & 2?

How do you describe the sound of KT-88's and EL34's?

Ha, that's a good one. First of all I do not think you can say The One is better or the Two is better. They are different! The design is basically the same, the tubes are different, the rectifying is different (PL One simple bridge, PL Two 4 "best" diodes), some capacitors (there were usefull) are different in the Two (The Two uses SOLEN where usefull). That for the technical part.

The sound: of course heavily depending on what else is connected. But in general you can say that the Two compared to the One shows a little bit more power, a bit more "character", a bit more ease. The Two sounds also -with the right speaker of course- very open and like sound from heaven (for example with the newest ProAc's and the old Ensemble PA1). But some people think sometimes it is too big and that means I have to tell that everything is "in the combination". The One and Two have different characters, and certainly under different circumstances, they both find "different" owners.

We always say: sit, listen to the systems and trust your own ears.

Best regards,

Herman

What are the signs of weak tube?

When do you think the tubes need a replacement?

It might be that you do not immediately notice it as it goes of course (I hope ...) gradually. You have people who sit all the time in front of their system wondering what's wrong. I don't think you should buy equipment for that. Just play the music you like, now and then decide for yourself if you still hear what you want to hear and heard when you decided for the equipment and in case of tubes, change the power tubes after every 2 - 3000 hours of use. The small tubes even after 5 - 10000 hours! If money is available in large quantities you can change as often as you want ...

If tubes really are at their end you will loose dynamics and high frequencies.

Best regards,

Hermanito

Herman, I am a proud owner of a PrimaLuna Prologue Two and I LOVE it!!! I am pairing it with a pair of Totem Arro's in a small 9x11 room. I have two questions:

1. Are there any speakers you would recommend over my Arros to pair with the Two?
2. I am looking to get a tubed CDP, and am holding out for a unit brought to market by PrimaLuna. Any chance I can get a rough timeline of when you are looking at to launch this product?

Thanks in advance for your time! (and for a great product)

No, no special speaker in mind. As long as the amp can drive it and the room accepts it. I have seen them used with Sonus, Proac, Vienna and even Wilson. Speakerchoice is more a matter of room than of amp. We are introducing now preamp and 2 stereopoweramps. Immediately after that 2 mono powramps and than it is the tubed cd-player. I want to have that on the market this year. We will use our experience from our AH! tube cd-player design of course. Best regards from Shanghai Airport! Hermanito

Herman, thanks for the quick response! I look forward to the future PrimaLuna products. I am curious about one thing - is there any chance the CDP may have volume control in the analog domain, so that you can run direct to your yet-to-be released monos? I beleive Kevin Deal of Upscale Audio may have forwarded an email to you from me regarding this issue as well? If that's asking to much to 'divulge', I understand, but it never hurts to ask. Thanks again for your prompt reply and great product!

For the cdp we are still in the process of deciding how the mechanical construction is going to be (limited choices of cd-drives available; limited space in our PrimaLuna chassis; how to be able to instaal the drive AND the tubes), so I guess that any "wish" can be included in my request to Marcel Croese (my designer) and the engineers who assist us. So whatever ideas the people heave, we are interested to hear about it. Best regards, Herman

herman,

A good volume control would definately be big plus for people who dont have many sources to connect to the amp. Plus it may serve in getting one component out of the way in the signal chain.

manek.

Hi! Herman,
Cant log on to your site. It says not found. Am waiting for the 2s that Sushil will get and then I will pick up a demo amp from him.

After Cadence valve amps have gone from my listening room I miss valves like hell. I love jazz and love the sound of valves.

I hope that your amps are very reliable in terms of quality and construction rather than the later!.

Cant wait to get my hands on the 2s, so that I can partner it will either the PROAC'S, LINN'S etc.

Rgds

Prithvi

Hi! Herman,
Cant log on to your site. It says not found. Am waiting for the 2s that Sushil will get and then I will pick up a demo amp from him.

After Cadence valve amps have gone from my listening room I miss valves like hell. I love jazz and love the sound of valves.

I hope that your amps are very reliable in terms of quality and construction rather than the latter!.:(

Cant wait to get my hands on the 2s, so that I can partner it will either the PROAC'S, LINN'S etc.

Rgds

Prithvi

Hi,

I was listening to a Prologue one for the last 5 days and would like to share my experience with it.

1. Very good amp, yet to see a competitor below Rs. 1.00 lakhs.

2. I am having the one with Phono stage, good VFM product so you will connecting a VFM vinyl source.

3. The sound produced gives you the impression of a more powerful one. It is warm, but not the usual colouring you hear from older tube amps. The highs and lows are well controlled. I am using a MA GR20 floorstander and found that 35W is controlling the speakers well.

4. Soundstage a bit forward and not lacking in depth. Width of the sound stage is also fine, goes beyond the sides of the speakers .

5. Imaging is not razor sharp or can also be called more natural !. What I meant is play a well recorded large orchestral music you hear the violins, the Violas and the chellos from L - C - R but some amps can give you the precise point where each group of instruments starts and ends. Do we hear the orchestra that way live ?

6. If you go over enthusiastic with the volume control you can hear the sound stage shrink and it is the warning to stop, back of a bit you are back in action.

7. In comparison to Radiance R200i a solid state amp, I feel this one is bit low on resolution and slightly rougher in sound, say it is 85% of radiance at about 25% cost !!


I would conclude..

" Prologue one has a transistor hidden somewhere and the Radiance has a tube some where hidden"

Hi Dynar,

I think I know you by name from the TNT-audio ML.
I'm glad you like the Prologue 2 : it is also my amp and It's really amazing! By the way, I also have a pair of Sonus Faber....

For the Primaluna website, check-out www.primaluna.be

Bye,
Koetsu

Hi Herman,

Recently got back into hifi after a very long break, bought JMlab Cobalt 816S / Musical Fidelity A3.2 / Marantz CD7300. After a period of breaking in, I am finding that the treble has slight "sting" as mention in a couple of reviews. This also depends on the material I am listening to, otheriwse the combination is satisfactory.

I have be thinking about "upgrading" my A3.2 to the new Musical Fidelity A5 which I am told is "tube" like and should balance out nicely with the Cobalt 816S. Have not heard it yet as they seem to sell as fast as the dealer can get them.

While waiting I started to look around and found articals written about the Prima Luna Prologue One to be very intriguing.

I have some questions I hope you can help me with:

1) Your feelings on the Prima Luna Prologue One / Cobalt 816S combo. Sensitivity (2,8V/1 m) 91,5dB

http://www.focal.tm.fr/home/en/cobaltS/index.htm

2) There is an article (page 35) in the July 2005 issue 268 of Hi-Fi choice. It shows the Prima Luna Prologue One with KT88 valves. From your previous posting I inderstand that Prima Luna Prologue Two has KT88 valves, can you clarify.


Thanks

P.S. I also have a pair of Rogers LS35a 15ohms, which I would like to use with the Prima Luna Prologue. Any issues?

Wantu-be schrieb:

2) There is an article (page 35) in the July 2005 issue 268 of Hi-Fi choice. It shows the Prima Luna Prologue One with KT88 valves. From your previous posting I inderstand that Prima Luna Prologue Two has KT88 valves, can you clarify.

Hello,

I can confirm that the Prologue Two has four KT88 tubes in the final section, while the Prologue One uses four EL34 tubes. Both use two 12ax7 and two 12au7 in the pre/driver section.
More info at www.primaluna.be
I will live to Herman to answer to the other questions.

Bye,
Koetsu

Hello,

I'd like to share some thoughs about Prima Luna Prologue Two. I've been listening to it for 4 months now and I'm very satisfied with the sound.
I'm using it in sistem consisting of Orpheus DA-One DAC with Marantz PDM-340 PRO CD player as transport and JM Lab Mezzo Utopia speakers. I have several interconnects from Van Den Hull, Nordost, Bastanis and others, but I prefer using modified QED Silver Spiral. Speaker cables are PS Audio Xstreme. I also have two 200W monoblocks from local company and passive preamp.

As I said the sound of Prologue Two is very musical, full of detail but not in your face like some tranie amps do it.

Most impressive are micro and macro dynamics and fullness of midrange which is simply seductive. The bass is exceptional for a mere 40 watter. No, it can't beat my monoblocks for sheer power and impact, but on the other side you can hear the harmonic details which makes instruments and voices much more real and listenable. I'm jazz fan and every time I came home from concert I was surprised how lifelike system with Prima Luna sounds.

In those 4 months I didn't have any problem with the amp.
I was swaping some tubes in and out, but on the end I stayed with stock tubes.

And BTW, this is my wife favorite amp. She listen to music now much more than she ever did.


P.S: I have Q for Herman: can I use EL34 tubes in Prologue Two?


Rgds,

Samo

Hello Samo,

while waiting for Herman's comments ....

According to the Prologue Two user manual EL34 tubes are not a replacement for KT88

If you like to try tubes better than the original ones in the pre section (12AX7 and 12AU7) , you might consider expensive NOS tubes. Namely Telefunken and Mullard. They are absolutely amazing !

Bye,
Koetsu

Thanks koetsu.

Have located a Prologue One and will arrange for some extended listering with my JMR.

If all goes well I will take a leap of faith and get the Prologue Two.

Wantu-be schrieb:

Thanks koetsu. Have located a Prologue One and will arrange for some extended listering with my JMR. If all goes well I will take a leap of faith and get the Prologue Two.

Hi Wantu-be, which JMR do you use ?
I am torn between the Twin and the Trente these days...

Hey arjun,
u planning to buy French speakers now..!
Jean marie Reynaud's speakers ar every well known and renowned..
man wish i could listen to those beautites..

Ben, I heard both and must say they have a memerising midrange and a very smooth treble.
Sound very dfferent from the JM lab as well as the triangle.

Wish i could audition it with my amp though..

Wantu-be schrieb:

Thanks koetsu. Have located a Prologue One and will arrange for some extended listering with my JMR. If all goes well I will take a leap of faith and get the Prologue Two.

Hello Wantu-be,

I listened both the Prologue One and Two.
The One is a nice amplfier especially with voices, strings etc.
But for my taste I was looking for a bigger impact. The Prologue Two has all the nice sound of the Prologue One, but it is able to drive ( IMHO of course ) the speakers deeper and in a more controlled way.
Don't be fooled by the just 5W difference in the power output specification. The Two sounds as a "big" amplifier.

Happy music,
Koetsu

Hallo Hermanito,
Wir haben schon zweimal versucht mit ihnen Kontakt aufzunehmen über e-mail, haben geschäftliches Angebot und eine nachfrage abgegeben. Bitte, antworten sie ob eine Möglichkeit besteht, über dessen, was wir nachgefragt haben?!
Vielen Dank und schöne Grüsse.
Aksioma

Hi all,

Aji - I have a pair of JMR Cobalt 816S, well reviewed in US + Europe. I bought them on spec. and it was a very lucky punt (I had to push to get them over from the dist.) Good over-all speakers, I am please with them. Here is the URL for your ref:

http://www.focal.tm.fr/home/en/cobaltS/index.htm

I was down to pick up the PL One, but was side track by the sales guy towards the Musical Fidelity A5, which I took home. After 15 minutes of warm up and 10 minutes of listening I was so disappointed that I packed it up.

The top was Ok but sounded "capped", the bottom was good and control but the middle was "muddy", my Musical Fidelity A3.2 might not have weight in the bottom end, but sounded much better in the middle and highs.

I took it back to the shop the follow day and borrow the PL One.

I sat to do some listerning after 15 minutes of warm up, it was a surprise to hear such an "open + big" sound, there seem to be much greater "body" to the sound in top and middle, the bottom was OK but a bit "wabbly".

It was all going well, and than the right channel went quite, this I also experience in the shop when I heared it some time back (same amp).

I than switch the unit off and I cound hear a "click" and than a "hiss" on the right hand channel, at this stage I was hopeing that I had not blown the speakers. I change from the 8Ohm tap to the 4Ohm tap, powered up and all was sounding good and have not had any issues for the pass 2 hours listernig to classic / instrumental / rock / voice.

The 4Ohm tap seem to present a brighter sound.

I am ceartinly impress with the PL One it made eveything sound so "life" like. I will look to aquire the PL Two and hope that it will also tighten up the bottom end. (it is not readyly avaliable when I am)

It is true that there is a transistor sound and a valve sound, ultimately you will have to listern to both and decide your preferance.

For me, I am going to try and get the PL Two for my JMR Cobalt 816s and hook up the MF A3.2 to my Rogers LS35A and use it in the study.

Will update when I do get my hands on a PL Two.

Happy listerning!