Need Assistanceon Speakers

You would be much better off with a diamond 9 Package. Its much better than the Sonodyne package you are thinking of buying. Price will be almost same for both.

Klipsch !

All the Way !!

Very Very good for movies.

BOB

wharfedale for sure -much superior to the sonodynes anyday and good guys to work with.

p:s- are audio people or soundsmiths still doing GALE. An option worth trying.

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replies.

Somehow i am impressed with Sonodyne. But can definitelt drop it for some great options.

I would like to clarify that my budget for 5.1 is 35 K Max. And the room where i am going to place this is 10*19 Ft in my bedroom.

I was going thru other posts (abhi.pani and other on a siliar topic), to summarise all

Sonus 1605 is not as great as thought..Genie 2S is very good, goes best with Onkyo 503 (which i am procuring)

Instead of Sonodyne Subwoofer 1810, Wharfdale SW-150 would be a better option.

Wharfdale 9.0 HCP is another good option as a package.

Now to questions,
How good are sonodyne rears, Dipolar Speakers.??

Bob_ludwig, Does Klipsch fits my budget?

Need your suggestions and advice on this.

How Good are Lithos Noa1. Read good user reviews about it.

Bob_ludwig, Does Klipsch fits my budget

No, I think it's way above...........FLRs around 60k( RF35), sub 24k, center 16k(RC 3),surrounds 20k(RS 3).. if interested take care to have all Klipsch speakers and don't try to match them with other brands.

hi prasanna

check out www.lithosindia.com

u can also spk to Rajiv of lithos who is very helpful.

Noa 1 is a very good system for music IMO but forum members also claim that it does justice to movies as well...

SUggest u look at the Terra 150 sub (stereo sub) and matching speakers.

also u need to factor in that the noa1 are not magnetically shielded.

keep rocking

Nimz

Hi nimz / Buddies,

i have spoken to Lithos before. They dont have any dealers in bangalore cant audition it here.

Moreover thier noa1 sat pricing comes close to 34K

Even the Wharfedale 9.0 HCP is priced the same.

I have three basic Questions

1. Where does Bookshelves far better than Sats?

2. How often do we need to take speakers to service centres? Does Wharfedale Have one in bang/ Chennai.

3. Have zeroed down on 3 options

a. Sonnodyne Genie 2's 5.1 Sats
b. Sonodyne Sonus 1501 - L&R, Sonus 2401 CC, Sonus Rears and Roarr 1810.
c. Wharfedale 9.0 HCP

Any suggestions on this?

What aer the kind of offers we shd look on pricing front.

You help would be appreciated.

REgards,

Prasanna KV

Hi pitchucold,
first of all a good Sattelite speaker can easily beat a not so good bookshelf speaker in a HT setup. Basically in a HT rather than looking at individual components, its the overall effect that makes sense.

A genie2 setup can easily beat the 1501 setup (option no:2)
because the genies sound very coherent and match seamlessly in HT where as IMO the 1501 dont do it well at all.

But between the Diamond 9.0 setup and the Genie2 setup, if space is not a constraint then its Diamond 9.0 all the way.
It has got very good reviews recently. Even the sub used by the Diamond 9.0 setup (wharfdale SW150) is better than the sonodyne sub.

So if you dont have any space constraint then go for the Diamond 9.0 setup, you have to keep the bookshelves on a good stand, atleast the front speakers.

Else if you dont have the space and you have to take up speakers which you want to mount on the wall then go for the genie2 satts but use the wharfdale sub instead of the Roarr2815.

i agree with abhi..if you have a space constraint go for the diamond 9...9.2 fronts (15k), 9.0 for surr (8k) or even the WH2 bipolars (6.5k), 9cc (6 or 7k)...the sub i found sonodyne better than the wharfe...sonodyne has a tighter punch...whereas wharfe sounded a bit boomy... thats my op..

nindo

Hi prasanna,

Check this out,

http://stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1105wharfedale/

Wharfedales book shelves are very good...

Lithos sat sub combo u can audition them thru forum members who have Lithos.. u can also ask Rajiv to give u some customers who use Lithos in Blore - there shuold be quite a few...

Coming to your queries... based on my very amateurish knowledge

1. Sats are sposed to generally stick to high and mid freq.. bookshelves are sposed to produce the entire gamut.. hence in a sat system a sub is compulsory!!!

Floorstanders are sposed to have a little more lower end grunt than a book shelf..


2.good speakers should last a lifetime.. we have a Ahuja stereo spkr which is more than 20 yrs old (one of my dad's precious buys) and that has never seen the insides of a repair room and still pumps out 80 watts of good sound.. most spkrs also come wiht a 10 yr warranty so that says it all..

Keep rocking

Nimz

Hi Nimz,

Hvae u done the promised visit to the wharfedale showroom? (Is it the Promusicals shop?) If so what's ur take on the wharfies? Tell us ur exp and list out the prices plss.
cheers
Shri

Hi Shri,

I couldnt go to the promusicals shop (its the same one on Casa Major Rd). Was working on Saturday and they are closed on Sunday. SPoke to the dude incharge there.. he said he can give a demo of the bookshleves only as they dont stock the floors...(the floors cost 27K over the phone)

But I dont understand... floors are sposed to be better than bookshelves and 3 ways are sposed to be better than 2 ways right????

Butin Wharfies all recomment the bookshelves over the towers and this is 2 way. My options have narrowed now...

None of the speakers I listend to in my opinion were not that grt except the Kef iQ5(37K). Didnt like the sound of Mordaunt Short floors.. Polk monitor didnt excite me.. Boston CR series was decent.. better than the MS - it was an A/B on the same Amp.

SO its the wharfies and the Sonodynes or the Lithos or the Monitor Audio Bronze - the last 2 i cannot listen to..so am not too sure abt going for them.

how is the JBL speakers? ANyone heard them?

Thanks
Nimz

nimz schrieb:

Hi Shri, But I dont understand... floors are sposed to be better than bookshelves and 3 ways are sposed to be better than 2 ways right???? Butin Wharfies all recomment the bookshelves over the towers and this is 2 way. My options have narrowed now... SO its the wharfies and the Sonodynes or the Lithos or the Monitor Audio Bronze - the last 2 i cannot listen to..so am not too sure abt going for them. how is the JBL speakers? ANyone heard them? Thanks Nimz

The JBL's are nice. I just find them a little 'tipped' at the top end. But you may like it.
The Wharfdales are nice speakers, but I like Pacific Evolution Series.
However, amongst these, I personally prefer the Quads.
I do not know about the availibility in your city. You may write to their distributor in Bombay & take a call on that.


But I dont understand... floors are sposed to be better than bookshelves and 3 ways are sposed to be better than 2 ways right????

This was a great line; I wonder how much of this is right ? It would make a very very interesting topic.
Any Comments from fellow forum members ?

BHAGWAN69

based on my limited knowlegde i can surely say that a speaker is supposed to be good or bad, generally, depending on how much of the total sound spectrum can it produce...towers are better cos they perform better on the lower sound range compared to bookshelves....and 3 way is better than 2 cos there are individual components (read drivers) to perform a specific task...

if you can afford and manage to place them right, go for towers...there can be no 2 ways abt it...!!!..thats what my experience says....(i got the whole furniture in my hall restructured just to accomodate the towers..!!)

nindo

nindo schrieb:

based on my limited knowlegde i can surely say that a speaker is supposed to be good or bad, generally, depending on how much of the total sound spectrum can it produce...towers are better cos they perform better on the lower sound range compared to bookshelves....and 3 way is better than 2 cos there are individual components (read drivers) to perform a specific task... nindo

Hi Nindo !

Nice observations;
However, things are not so simple. How I wish they were.
Going by what you say, 4 way or 5 way speakers should be 'better' than a 1 way or a 2 way or even a 3 way for that matter.

That is not the case, it is not only about recreating music, it has a lot more to do with it. SPL, Phase, Impedence, Reaction Time, Settling Time, Force Factor, Dispersion Pattern of Drivers etc. I could go on, but it will not help.

BHAGWAN69

....and 3 way is better than 2 cos there are individual components (read drivers) to perform a specific task... nindo

Yes, I agree with you that calling 3 drivers to share the freq response means each driver handles a narrower portion of the freq spectrum, and it can be more finely tuned for its duty.

3 drivers means that the crossover has more dips and notches to share the signal between 3 drivers.....

Also the overlap outputs for the 3 drivers will also create frequency response peaks.

Life is Full of compromises ....

Hi Nimz,

I am no better than u when it comes to 2 way & 3 way
Take the case of Polk monitor floor standers. Guys in this forums recomended Monitor 50 (2way) rather than Monitor 60(3way).
Why cant u try Polk RTi4 bookshelves. I have read nothing but good reviwes abt them. It has got the AV Max award for midrange bookshelves this month.(That many guys in this forum sneer at AV Max awards is a different matter :))U can audition them at ProFx spencers.
Cheers
Shri

Hi,

technically speaking a good 2 way speaker is better than a bad 3 way speaker...mebbe thats the reason why "WHat HIFI" praises the wharfies...

Personally coming from a marketing background i feel awards are directly proportional to the ad spend in the concerned publication.. I have not yet seen the Feb awards issue of AV max.. but I bet Onkyo would have bagged quite a few..!!!

I spoke to a spkr sales guy who was of the opinion that well defined music (strictly music) with equal balance of treble and bass needs a good 2 way spkr..3 ways he feels would be better in a HT setup but if one needs more emphasis on music than HT a 2.5 way spkr was suggested...

Does this mean that a 2.5 will have less frequecy ovelap peaks than a 3 way as Amp_nut says and hence will be more musical!!!

Bhagwan - wot are the Quads u speaking abt.. bookshelves? 2 way? i kinda emotionally drawn to a 3 way floor (or a 2.5 way )...and my budget is not that grt.. hence looking at the JBL E series!!

Abhi / Sachi - wotcha both say??

Ashutosh - are u back?????

nimz !!

Guys in this forums recomended Monitor 50 (2way) rather than Monitor 60(3way).

I was the first guy to come here with a first hand listening report and I made a statement that 50's are better VFM wise and not otherwise...hmm Monitor 50's or 60's are good for HT but stereo please sir.. .Dear friend don't go by recommendations but listening experiences.

Personally coming from a marketing background i feel awards are directly proportional to the ad spend in the concerned publication.. I have not yet seen the Feb awards issue of AV max.. but I bet Onkyo would have bagged quite a few..!!!

Thats very true, no wonder ONKYO sticks to last page of AV MAX month after month and AV MAX sticks an award up dandapani's back every year..

regarding bookshelves look for mission or KEF..they are more or less priced the same and try PSB too.

nimz schrieb:

Hi, )...and my budget is not that grt.. hence looking at the JBL E series!! Abhi / Sachi - wotcha both say?? nimz !!

JBL E series is Bright and garrish....they are not cheap as well...I think you would get much better speakers for the price.

Not cheap???

Going by the prices on the NEt.. i estimated that the 3 way floorstander should not cost more than 20-25K...

Bright??? coupled with a marantz it gets evened out.. wot say??

Hmmm.. i guess with 25K u cant get decent stereo speakers!!!! 3 way and floor standing!!!

On the net ??? Are you talking of US prices or the Indian ones ?
As far as toning down is concerned, its possible but still when you have better speakers around which are usually better sounding (without any tone down or tine up required) then why go for these EXTREMELY biased and Party like speakers ??

Yes Abhi,

On the net... take the US prices from a few websites.. arrive at an average... take a conversion of 60 and u get a ball park figure..

better speakers at this price???

u referring to 3 way floorstanders for 25K??

Do let me know if there are some good ones around...

thanks

nimz

If you visit the JBL showroom here in India then you will know that the conversion rate is not 60 but somewhere around 85....believe me..

Secondly for 25k - 30k there are speakers like Dali Concept6, Acoustic Portrait Monitors(Kit Version), Kef iQ3 etc....all these are anytime better than the JBL you are talking about.

If your budget is around 25k and still want a taste of hi-end sound, check out the Sequel Reference speakers from lyrita audio. You may need to push your budget to around 29k but it is worth every penny. It weighs around 30kg. I have heard them on a valve setup and sounded fantastic for its price. Very musical and clean. But if you like the “wall of sound” from the JBLs and listen to Mettalica then the JBLs may suit you better.
Remember, all these are different sounding speakers and voiced for a certain kind of music. At budget prices, it is very difficult to find speakers which will suit all kind of music. You actually need to visit showrooms with your kind of music and listen and decide. On forums like these, you will get mixed opinions which you use as a guideline only. I like the sequel Reference because my taste is Jazz, classic rock, vocals, blues-rock, blues etc… I look for good separation of instruments, sound-staging and balanced-natural presentation. This may not be what you want, so you need to listen and decide yourself. I previously owned wharfedales diamond series which did a pretty bad job with rock but sounded pretty ok with Jazz and blues. I got a friend who own Klipsch RF3’s. They sound fantastic with rock and heavy metal. But you play Diana krall or Jazz or some classical on it and you want to walk away…………so go out and listen with your kind of music and decide.

I got a friend who own Klipsch RF3’s. They sound fantastic with rock and heavy metal.But you play Diana krall or Jazz or some classical on it and you want to walk away…

You've got it wrong here it..heck it plays hip hop and trance too in an electrifying manner ...For Jazz you need an amp which really gels with these beats and yes Sugden is very good and friend why not have a listen with Class A where vocals are amazing...I was using Musical Fidelity Class A for some time and vocals were real good...amazing sound staging and depths..Hmm not to forget the definition. I've heard they sound fantastic with valves too...But with Class AB amps( wouldn't like to name them ) I think I partly share your opinion about walking away...what say???

I was using Musical Fidelity Class A

Was that the A-20 ? ( I think that was the model number.

A sleek, full black amp.

Infact a bit too sleek for Class A operation. Ran HOT, and forums report, it failed frequently...

But the sound was Good....

It was A 100 lil fatter than A2 and yes it ran hot and had hot sound too..hmm reliability it's still singing and makes you dance....

I have heard klipsch in various setups including valve setups. I always found the sound to a bit peaky. There is something with the highs and mids which puts me off when it comes to softer Jazz and classical. I am not saying this is true with all horn-loaded speakers. Maybe it is my taste. I like the mids and highs of Proacs especially the response series. It is all personal taste I guess. That makes it all the more important for a guy to audition for himself and see if a speaker works for him. Maybe he will like the mids and highs of the Klipsch better.

Sq wave I think it's our personal tastes which matter here..so far as I know there's no speaker in this world which will reproduce the singers voice in natural fashion..so how do you like to listen to it is paramount..I like it little sharp and upfront and you like it laid back..right

nimz schrieb:

None of the speakers I listend to in my opinion were not that grt except the Kef iQ5(37K).

Does that mean you liked the iQ5s? What aspect did you specifically like about them? I'm thinking of going in for a pair myself.

SUB_BOSS schrieb:

Sq wave I think it's our personal tastes which matter here..so far as I know there's no speaker in this world which will reproduce the singers voice in natural fashion..so how do you like to listen to it is paramount..I like it little sharp and upfront and you like it laid back..right

I agree. It is a matter of taste. It is really not a matter of laidback or upfront. There are a number of speakers which are not horn loaded which sounds upfront. It is basically a matter of tonal character. For mids and highs, I prefer the tonal character of well designed planar speakers like the cadence Arca or ML Prodigys or well designed dynamic speakers which are not horn loaded. Good examples are Proac response series or dynaudio contour or B&W nautilus. All of the above mentioned are speakers which I can’t afford now, so I tend to select something which has similar tonal character.

[quote="Shahrukh"][quote="nimz"]

Does that mean you liked the iQ5s? What aspect did you specifically like about them? I'm thinking of going in for a pair myself.[/quote]


Yes shahrukh i liked the iQ5... dunno how to put it.. i listened to the Polk audio monitors in the profx showroom followed by the KeF iQ5.. the bass was more "rounded".. not boomy or muddled..the instruments sounded detailed..all frequencies were clear i hope u get wot i mean..and the soundstaging was better.. and well u know i felt "wow" when i heard them..

Square wave, I agree with u that it is a matter of personal taste.. hence for that reason am not plunging into a monitor audio or a lithos tho i have heard great reviews.. i use reviews to understand stuff which may be beyond me..(being a novice!!) which i may have missed..

I listen to all kindsa music.. my priority would be instrumental / western classical / jazz / classical rock..lotsa guitars... no metal but good bass and definition (hence floor standers and 3 way!!)..songs like the accoustic version of Hotel california.. accoustic version of Laila..and i also listen to it for long periods of time..hence am looking at non ear fatigue inducing stuff..i will be buying a marantz avr..

have checked out almost all outlets in Chennai.. only the wharfies and sonodynes are left..will check them out..
Lyrita audio has no outlet in Chennai.. JBL has an outlet in Coimbatore.. so thot I can drop in there.. will check them out anyway if I can..

Abhi.. will check out the spkrs u mentioned too.. mebbe a visit to Blore is needed..and mebbe i need to come out of the 3 way floor perception

thanks for all the inputs

Nimz

From your music and listening taste, I would suggest you stay clear of JBL. Buy anything else that floats your boat.

I have rheard the IQ kef speakers....they really have made a great improvement from the older series. I to liked the IQ5 and IQ7. Both very nice and detailed.

Finally KEF has got its act together again.

manek.

There are a number of speakers which are not horn loaded which sounds upfront. It is basically a matter of tonal character.

Yes did I contradict it....no!!! but RF's beat all in this price range and gets you close to live stage where metal music is thrashed.

Good examples are Proac response series or dynaudio contour or B&W nautilus. All of the above mentioned are speakers which I can’t afford now, so I tend to select something which has similar tonal character.

You mean AP's have similiar tonal characters of Proac's or B&W??

Manek schrieb:

I have rheard the IQ kef speakers....they really have made a great improvement from the older series. I to liked the IQ5 and IQ7. Both very nice and detailed. Finally KEF has got its act together again.

nimz schrieb:

Yes shahrukh i liked the iQ5... dunno how to put it.. i listened to the Polk audio monitors in the profx showroom followed by the KeF iQ5.. the bass was more "rounded".. not boomy or muddled..the instruments sounded detailed..all frequencies were clear i hope u get wot i mean..and the soundstaging was better.. and well u know i felt "wow" when i heard them...

Aah! Feels good! I had similar opinions about them. I'm glad to know you guys share my views. My KEF iQ5s come on Saturday!!

good show sharukh....
let me know how they sound at home.

the bass was more "rounded".. not boomy or muddled..the instruments sounded detailed..all frequencies were clear i hope u get wot i mean..and the soundstaging was better.. and well u know i felt "wow" when i heard them...

I heard them ...yuck nothing great.it's all BS was my opinion...but after some time it took over me and I was deceived by this speakers tight control over LF's and smooth highs..definetely not impressive for passerby, but good for long term lisenings..I still feel the mids are a shade tiring..Shahrukh what source and amp are you planning to use.

Hi Shahrukh.. Congrats...

would love to be in your shoes...

Wot is the amp u using to drive it?

Do post a review....

Keep rocking

Nimz

Hey shahrukh? You in Bangalore? I keep hearing good things about the i Q5. The highs in the older model used to bother me a bit. Hope they have solved it now. How much did it cost you ?

SUB_BOSS schrieb:

the bass was more "rounded".. not boomy or muddled..the instruments sounded detailed..all frequencies were clear i hope u get wot i mean..and the soundstaging was better.. and well u know i felt "wow" when i heard them... I heard them ...yuck nothing great.it's all BS was my opinion...but after some time it took over me and I was deceived by this speakers tight control over LF's and smooth highs..definetely not impressive for passerby, but good for long term lisenings..I still feel the mids are a shade tiring..Shahrukh what source and amp are you planning to use.

Yuck?? C'mon sub... they're not yuck!! Ok, they're not Klipsch Reference, but for that price n size I think they rock. I've upgraded from a Wharf Diamond 8.1 so it's a significant improvement for me. Plus, my room isn't that big either. For a guy who never thought he could own floorstanders, I think these are a Godsend. And at a decent price too.
Anyway I will be driving them with a Marantz SR 4400 and a Philips DVDP as source. QED sil. anniv. spkr cables and a DAC interconnect.

nimz schrieb:

Hi Shahrukh.. Congrats... would love to be in your shoes... Wot is the amp u using to drive it? Do post a review....

Thanks Nimz. I'll post a review after they break in. That's for sure. The amp question's answerd above.

square_wave schrieb:

Hey shahrukh? You in Bangalore? I keep hearing good things about the i Q5. The highs in the older model used to bother me a bit. Hope they have solved it now. How much did it cost you?

I'm in Mumbai dude. I'll PM you the deatils.

SUB_BOSS schrieb:

There are a number of speakers which are not horn loaded which sounds upfront. It is basically a matter of tonal character. Yes did I contradict it....no!!! but RF's beat all in this price range and gets you close to live stage where metal music is thrashed. Good examples are Proac response series or dynaudio contour or B&W nautilus. All of the above mentioned are speakers which I can’t afford now, so I tend to select something which has similar tonal character. You mean AP's have similiar tonal characters of Proac's or B&W??

No speakers sound the same. But different brands can share similar tonal character due to similar voicing. When I say similar, it does not mean same. They are all slightly different due to differences in design parameters and different drivers. But for me, when it comes to Jazz and classical, I like most well designed, non-horn loaded dynamic speakers and Planars. One exception is the horn loaded loudspeakers (using Lowther drivers) by Rethm. But that is a different approach and design and do not fall under the usual horn-loaded designs. There is a distinct difference between the tonal balance and character of horn loaded and non-horn loaded designs. Ask a cadence Arca user listen to avant-garde or klipsch-horn ? It will never float his boat. This happens vice – versa too. A klipsch horn lover will say the planars sound syrupy and too smooth for him………It’s all personal preference based on what ones primary taste in music is.

suarewave wrote:

I have heard klipsch in various setups including valve setups. I always found the sound to a bit peaky

square, this is incorrect. I too had opportunities of listening to Klipsch RF3, 5 & 7s with different gear, they were never Peaky. It may not be very sweet sounding, but sounds like LIVE. I was told, with the proper matching of gear, you can tame the highs, if needs.

One intl repute company, 'll not produce a reference (their) speaker which always peaky

There is a distinct difference between the tonal balance and character of horn loaded and non-horn loaded designs

Your above diffrences 'll be there even in the bunch of non-horn & also in the bunch of horn-loaded. If every thing sound similar, I think we all wouldn't 've been here

Shahrukh wrote

For a guy who never thought he could own floorstanders, I think these are a Godsend.

Dear Shahrukh, not to worry too much on the specs of your speakers, electronics etc...& also not to keep trying dissecting your music. If you like the sound of your system, better enjoy it. I understand, the possession of these floorstander is an achievement for you, enjoy it. good luck.

rgds

powersupply schrieb:

Shahrukh wrote For a guy who never thought he could own floorstanders, I think these are a Godsend. Dear Shahrukh, not to worry too much on the specs of your speakers, electronics etc...& also not to keep trying dissecting your music. If you like the sound of your system, better enjoy it. I understand, the possession of these floorstander is an achievement for you, enjoy it. good luck. rgds

Dear powersupply, I was referring to my room size when I spoke of owning floorstanders. I think I'll enjoy my music for a long time with this system! Thanks for your good wishes.

powersupply schrieb:

There is a distinct difference between the tonal balance and character of horn loaded and non-horn loaded designs Your above diffrences 'll be there even in the bunch of non-horn & also in the bunch of horn-loaded. If every thing sound similar, I think we all wouldn't 've been here :D

couldnt agree more ..all these criticisms of individual components are not really very relevant.. the whole idea in this hobby is about getting the right balance in the
system ie matching tonal characteristics for each component so as to get the right sound.

the klipsch is a bit peaky in the 2-6 khz , but put it with a warmish amps and you have great sound. OR put in in a heavily damped room and you again have good sound

couldnt agree more ..all these criticisms of individual components are not really very relevant.. the whole idea in this hobby is about getting the right balance in the system ie matching tonal characteristics for each component so as to get the right sound

couldn't agree more again Arj..you are absolutely right..I bet there is no speaker on this earth which will match with any amp and give still give you good sound..even Proac's mentioned by sq_wave which match his listening taste are a tad low on bass so what do you do...find a right amp than blaming it's tonal characteristics..I feel all this matching is like jigsaw puzzle..unless you find the right piece to fill up gap you are not going to get desired results..amen I rest my case here..

the klipsch is a bit peaky in the 2-6 khz

1975hz to 5khz I guess..at 1975hz it's little sharp when horns take over from woofers..