KEF iQ5

waiting.....

hi,

firstly, congratulations. Its exciting to open up new stuff : ) could you tell us your room size (apx)? you're using the iq5's with a marantz amp? what is your exact setup?

rgds,
vikram

wow. are u from bangalore vickram? would really love to come over and listen to those cadences if u have them.

ok sorry. checked. ur from bombay

audiojet schrieb:

hi, firstly, congratulations. Its exciting to open up new stuff : ) could you tell us your room size (apx)? you're using the iq5's with a marantz amp? what is your exact setup? rgds, vikram

Thanks Vikram,

Yes, I'm using a Marantz AVR. SR 4400. My full setup can be viewed by clicking my ID.

Room size is 21 X 8 ft. The listening position is breadth wise. I can't have it any other way. This setup almost eliminates the side wall factor. Though there's a wall + door on the left (from listening position) the right side is a window with curtains. Guess that's what's causing the suckout.

(I had a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 8.1s earlier and thought the lack of bass was the speakers themselves. )

The room plays a big role in the final reproduced sound. You probably have a lot of bumps and holes at some critical areas in the bass region. Play around with the placement and try and get some minimal room treatment done. Here’s a helpful link.
http://www.rivesaudio.com/resources/listening_room/frame.html

try modelling your room here as well

http://www.cara.de/ENU/index.php?load=quick.html
(click on the link for "Launch CARA Quick in new window" )

Arj schrieb:

try modelling your room here as well http://www.cara.de/ENU/index.php?load=quick.html (click on the link for "Launch CARA Quick in new window" )

Thanks! Even squarewave's link had the CARA Quick simulator. I had a go at it. According to CARA, my positioning is alright. Unfortunately it doesn't give me solutions. I can't customise it to where my doors/windows are placed. It is based on a closed room.

for that you need to buy the software that does full ptimisation as well as you can model the romm and furniture in 3D. i found that quite useful..

Damn! This bass thing is bugging me no end. Mostly it doesn't go below the upper midbass region. But then on some tracks (Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan/Peter Gabriel - Taboo) it goes way down low. Almost sub woofer levels but without the tummy thumping quality. It's like a very mature speaker "I'll give you bass only when you really need it - I'm no club monitor"

Did this speaker behave any differently at the showroom ? If so, you have a room problem. Try using the equalizer in the AVR or better still, get your room/placement sorted out. Anyway, a purist approach with an AVR is a very futile exercise, so why not use the equalizer and see if you can sort it out.

Yes yes it's the room. No side walls. Big door (uncloseable) to the next room. Dunno how to solve the problem.

Shahrukh schrieb:

Damn! This bass thing is bugging me no end. Mostly it doesn't go below the upper midbass region.

Could you describe the room and the music ? it would be a shot in the dark kind of suggestion otherwise !

typically bass deficiency could be due to the recording, the source, amplifier-speaker, mismatch, room-speaker mismatch, speaker positioning or the amount of damping in the room.
finally.. and not the least, over expectation from the listener in the bass region

if you have the hell freezes over by eagles, listen to the first couple of drum thumps. if you can feel that they are tight then you are doing ok.

positioning is perhaps the most important for bass and some playing around in its nearness to the walls might get you somewhere

There is a review of the iQ9 in stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/206kef/

one interesting comment is

"The reproduction of bass instruments depended on the recording. Jerome Harris' bass on "The Mooche," from Editor's Choice (CD, Stereophile STPH016-2), was a touch warm but quite natural, although the kick drum seemed a bit thick on this recording through the KEFs. The double bass on George Crumb's Quest (CD, Bridge 9069) was naturally woody, but with a resonant quality that sounded overly round. The iQ9's midbass was most problematic with electric bass guitars that were mixed high in rock recordings. On Mighty Sam McClain's Give It Up to Love (CD, JVC JVCXR 0012-2), the emphasized, resonant, sluggish bass guitar sounded more like organ-pedal tones."

and this speaker is rated down to 38Hz with 3 woofers compared to the 2 smaller woofers and 43db rating of the iQ5.

i am not sure if an equaliser would improve that, as you will only compromise the midrange and get more distorted bass

hence as long as your positioning is optimised for bass and your midrange as clean, the only other way to add bass would be via a sub.

How do I post a pic here? I'll give you guys a rough sketch of my room.

Hi Shahrukh,

While the lack of bass COULD be your room... maybe you could also look at the following :

It's like a very mature speaker "I'll give you bass only when you really need it - I'm no club monitor"

1. Different speakers Do sound different, and the difference is often most readily apparent in the bass, as a 'deficiency'

I know, I felt that when I switched from my old B&W 802s to Sonus Fabor.

2. Often you may be better off with the less bass from the new speakers, than boom from the old ones ( my case ) though its AWEFULLY difficult to come to terms with that initially.

Almost sub woofer levels but without the tummy thumping quality.

You could place your speakers on the floor or move them ( or even 1 of them ) into a corner for more bass. This should be only a temporary measure, if you get bass quantity instead of quality.

We always want a 'WOW' factor with our new stuff... sometimes it takes time for the speakers to burn in too.

3. Over time ( atleast 100 Hours of 'music' ) most speaker will open up.... more and tighter bass, better imaging etc.

4. Not all demo rooms are good.... I know of one which has asbestos sheets as walls carved out off a computer show room. The bass BOOMs ! So dont take the demo room as your reference....

Thanks Amp/Arj,

Actually, the way I see it, it's a combination of factors.

1. The speakers are just over a week old. Lots of break in required.

2. The room.

3. My source. It's a cheapo US supermarket brand DVDP. Was gifted by a dear friend, hence has a lot of sentimental value in the household. But, I think its time has come

See, if I really concentrate, low end is there. But most of the time, it's like the woofer present specifically for bass has no function at all. Add to that the harshness of a new tweeter, it can get a bit unnerving esp after getting used to that warm Wharfedale sound.

That said, here's what I must add. The soundstaging qualities of the iQ5 are excellent. It goes way, way beyond the speakers. Even the imaging is spot on. (As spot-on as I can get with my gear). Separation of instruments is good. The speakers do a marvellous job of immediately dissapearing in to the soundstage. That, guys is such a fascinating pleasure.

I guess I'll wait for burn-in to really enjoy these babies.

although manufacturerus claim long burn in times, 30-50 hours should be enough for reaching upto 90% of potential.. so just leave it on overnight at a low volume with some heavy bass music .

Add to that the harshness of a new tweeter, it can get a bit unnerving esp after getting used to that warm Wharfedale sound

Hi Shahrukh,
I was in your same situation 9 months ago. Lack of Bass and tweeter harshness were my complaints too. Ofcourse I did not have KEF speakers but Jamo. I modified the crossover values and now they sound fine.

Sharukh,

are you using the analogue outputs of the dvdp or digital ? your av recvr dacs would be far better than the ones built into your dvdp.....so thats one thing you could try.

Secondly ...are your speaker wires too long ?

Manek.

My speaker wires are 2m a side. I'm using the analogue currently, I'll change to digital and see the difference.

Anyone in Mumbai got a spare Dig Coax Cable I borrow??

us the same analogue cables initially...not an issue...i'm sure you will find a difference overall :-)

its a good point by manek. regarding analogue Vs digital .. actually they are the same.but usually digital cables have a better spec wrt impedance, as too long a rise time in the digital signal can cause jitter which affects timing and clarity..

usually any decent IC cable makes a pretty good digital cable

Will try and let y'all know the difference.

Tried connecting to my AVRs DAC in PCM mode. Yes Manek, the bass improved, the harshness went. Unfortunately, so did the image. It got quite blurry. Well atleast I know that the culprit is my source now. So I guess I'll replace it ASAP.

The Philips DVD players are supposed to be good in stereo ACD mode, right?

If I were you, I would put my money on something like a nad 521bee or a similar kind if cdp. A good/shielded digital cable with low jitter may just solve your problem of a fuzzy image. The pioneer universal players make for a very decent transport if you want to use the AVR's dacs.

manek.

Hi Shahrukh

Just wanted to know..where did you buy the KEF IQ5s from and at what price?

Thanks
Anil Jacob

@ all,
I've bought the IQ5 a few weeks ago for a friend of mine from Hifi-Regler Germany. Special offer, because of damaged packaging.
However, with small Audio-Planar AntiSpikes die Sound improved a lot. (bass and voices).
It is difficult to describe value for money for a LS of about 500-600 € and the antispike for approx. 100€.

Our oppinion: it is worth doing it.
Sorry for the poor English.

Have a nice weekend.

Hello Shahrukh,
There are some more things you can try.

1. Move the speakers closer to each other. Preferably 8
feet apart.

2. Move the speakers inside. At least they should have 4
feet gap from the rear wall.

3. Put your amp and cdp on a decent isolation. You can get
them DIYed with bicycle tubes. (Bicycle tubes have
given me better results than sand box and racquetballs).

Horst_t schrieb:

However, with small Audio-Planar AntiSpikes die Sound improved a lot. (bass and voices).

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly are anti-spikes? Are they something like discs you put under the speaker spikes or is it like what we called a Spike Guard from the mains unit? Thanks for the suggestion anyway.

Move the speakers inside. At least they should have 4 feet gap from the rear wall.

Thanks for the advice myriad, but the distance between the two walls (behind the speakers and behind my seating position) is a little over 8 ft.

Shahrukh schrieb:

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly are anti-spikes? Are they something like discs you put under the speaker spikes or is it like what we called a Spike Guard from the mains unit? Thanks for the suggestion anyway.

I think he means this..
http://www.audi-o-plan.de/sicomin/siantispikes_gf.htm

Audio plan is a De based company which makes footers which are not spikes hence called Anti spikes.. basically flat cylinders made of carbon fiber material.

footers need to be chosen based on whether you want to couple/decouple/absorb speaker vibrations. there is no one single way as it depends on the speaker enclosure and the flooring.

of course home made remedies work very well too..

Thanks Arj,
Haven't figured them out yet but I'm not too sure I want to go in for a 100€ tweak right now. However, I'm sure there's a much cheaper homemade solution.

Shahrukh schrieb:

Thanks Arj, Haven't figured them out yet but I'm not too sure I want to go in for a 100€ tweak right now.

IMHO,you should not
Manek , if i remember right, had a very practical isolation.. a thin cork sheet on the floor, granite slab on it and speakers on that slab.. you can either spike or use bushing on the speaker feet and you have a very good speaker base

In that case, wouldn't coins do the trick??

not really.. the idea is to first isolate then couple..

but then experiment to see what works for you. some speakers/rooms like the isolation bit better and some do better with tightly coupled speakers. (If your flooring is concrete/ceramic then youd better use coins instead on only spikes.. preferably any Brass/copper coins)