My new stereo setup.

My alps pot is of 50k ohms. But I have removed it from the chain. Connected sound card directly to amp.

Here's some specs of my card -
Sampling rates include 44.1/48/96 kHz @ 16-24-bit.

· Analogue output:
Unbalanced
20 Hz - 20 kHz (+0.20/-0.10 dB)
560 Ohm input impedance
100dB THD+N (1 kHz @ -1 dBFS)
Crosstalk less than -109dB (1 kHz @ -1 dBFS)
SNR (A-weighted): 116dB


Don't know why it says input impedance. Maybe its a misprint.

Arj, that's how I would describe the sound. It doesn't have body to it. I get some bass even on my cheap philips headphones. Its an out of shape body, but its there nonetheless

I tried the realtraps test tones. I don't have a SPL meter, so the test is not accurate. I first played the pink noise to set the volume, then played some of the tones. I can hear the sound till 60hz, but below that, the two tracks for 40-49 and 50-59 are barely audible. I did not try below 40Hz.

zhopudey schrieb:

I can hear the sound till 60hz, but below that, the two tracks for 40-49 and 50-59 are barely audible. I did not try below 40Hz.

Ha!!! I have done the same test and the frequencies above 30hz were very well audible.

there is something wrong here.. please do try this out with a good source equipment once to make sure..would suspect either the source or even the amp..(HAve you tried the amp out before buying ? )

Arj schrieb:

there is something wrong here.. please do try this out with a good source equipment once to make sure..would suspect either the source or even the amp..(HAve you tried the amp out before buying ? )

All such queries to be directed to abhi


Mumbai walloh, anyone has a spare CD/DVD player lying around?

Arj schrieb:

HAve you tried the amp out before buying ?

I have tried the amp and its a mini krell...no doubts.

His amp is ok & his speakers also ok. Infact I've listened to them.

Without wasting his time, he should borrow a pre & source & give a try.

another shot in the dark.

put the track with 50-60 hz on repeat and

1. keep the Passive pot at 0 and play around with the soundcard sound
2. keep the soundcard output at around 50-75% and play with the voume pot of the pre

are their differences int the response ?

Keep pot at zero? Then how will I hear anything?

oops..i meant Max..zero resistance

Without wasting his time, he should borrow a pre & source & give a try.

I go with ALS's suggestion-enough time has been wasted in foreplay!

Kamal schrieb:

I go with ALS's suggestion-enough time has been wasted in foreplay!

Can't help it Everyone thinks my equipment is not good enough for the real thing

Kamal schrieb:

Without wasting his time, he should borrow a pre & source & give a try. I go with ALS's suggestion-enough time has been wasted in foreplay!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mahaan Aatma....

Note this:
In all rectangular rooms the bass response is most lacking at the halfway points - halfway between the front and rear walls, halfway between the left and right sides, and halfway between the floor and ceiling. Therefore, the worst place to sit is exactly halfway back in the room, with your ears halfway between the floor and ceiling, or halfway between the left and right walls. You shouldn't put loudspeakers in those places either.

Got this info from realtraps.com

Neutral- as per Zho.. he's not getting the proper basic sounds form the amp. Ex.. Drum shots are coming out like one hitting on a cardboard box..The issue might be related to drive & may be some mismatch in his signal source. I'm not sure about how his active pre is. For some time even I used to drive my Rotel power RB991 thru' a passive pre & was sounding so good. I had driven the same RB991 & as well my present Krell 400xi(as power amp) directly from Marantz CDP which has built in vol control. So there shouldn't be any issues with power amp. Infact we tried it Plinius's pre & ABd with Plinius etc...I can say though it's rated 125rms/ch, its drive was better than Plinius which is 200rms/ch(or may be 175rms). But, Plinius was more musical with jazz, softrock etc & McCormak was an allrounder. Instead mentioning bit-aggressive, I would call it more dynamic than Plinius.

Once the system puts out the basic sounds properly, then it can be fine tuned little with cables & with placement for better imaging/focussing.

Well, I am sitting in the center of the room. But even when I move back, the problem remains.

Say, does sonodyne rent out pre-amps?

zhopudey schrieb:

Well, I am sitting in the center of the room. But even when I move back, the problem remains. Say, does sonodyne rent out pre-amps? :P

Ask if they have a return guarantee (say within 48 hours of return). Then you could give them a try.

abhi.pani schrieb:

Ask if they have a return guarantee (say within 48 hours of return). Then you could give them a try.

Good idea What would I do without you?

zhopudey schrieb:

abhi.pani schrieb: Ask if they have a return guarantee (say within 48 hours of return). Then you could give them a try. What would I do without you? :P

Altec Lansing Zindabad!!!

What would I do without you?

Hey! he is married...leave him....

Going to Sonodyne tomm. Will try to persuade them to give me a demo.

Hey bobby, which model do you have? 202 or 203? And how much did it cost?

he has 203. Costs around 7k.
Have you spoken to them...are they ready to give one on return guarantee.

Zapouday I am using 203 and am sure you wouldn't regret if you buy this pre, worth trying

Had gone to the Sonodyne showroom today. But as their main office was closed, that chap couldn't tell me about any return policy

Their 202r is for 4K, and 203r is for 7k.

Checked the specs of 203R. THD of 0.05% (1Khz), SNR of 90dB, crosstalk 60dB. My soundcard has a THD of 0.001%, SNR of 116dB, and crosstalk < (-109)dB. Seems like a degrade. Now I understood why good preamps are so expensive

I'll get a call from them tomm. Let's see what they say.

After that, I'd gone to the pro-fx and JBL showrooms. Checked out the LSi bookshelves and towers. Source was a Denon sacd player, through Chord pre-power, and QED cabling. Speakers were almost unused,plus something in the room was loose and kept rattling. The bass was not tight at all. Overall there wasn't any involvement with the music. The tower fared slightly better, with its 8" side firing woofer, but it was nothing special either. The bookshelves wer 52k, and towers 87k.

The JBLs were much more fun It was the tower with 8" woofer (forgot model #), for 32K. The starting bass on "Money for Nothing" was fast and crisp. The highs did seem too much though. Not the speakers for long listening sessions, but would make great party speakers.

On coming home, I tried the Dire Straits CD. And voila! There was definitely some bass on "Money for Nothing"! Nothing deep, but whatever was there was fast and tight. Definitely NOT like cardboard And as Neutral pointed out, it was much better when I sat on my bed (which is against the wall), than when I sat on my chair, which is in the center.

Do cables need break-in as well?

I need to play around with speaker placement, chair placement, room treatment, etc. But before that, can you guys please suggest tracks with fast bass like "Money for Nothing"?? What kind of drum is used in that song?

Audiophilia is not for noobs


I guess today's short session with the JBL's with quite an ear opener.

In search for more fast bass, I turned to good ol' Nicko McBrain (of Iron Maiden). And there was Bass! Fast! Sharp! Tight! Just that it is limited to my ears, and doesn't reach my chest But thats expected I guess.

I feel like I was wearing psychological ear plugs till now How could I ever doubt my amp and speakers?! Ohh the shame! I will go to audio hell for this I will have to listen to auto rickshaw speakers with the jhankaar beat mod

Ohh audio lords, I beg for mercy


P.S. Metallica's One sounds crazy, even in a 128kbps mp3 What will the lossless file be like? Hehehehehe I can't stop grinning now

Ive been to zhopudey and auditioned his speakers. I give out single statement. The input to the amp is insufficient and hence its not giving what he wants. Ofcourse it was cardboard bass... but belive me guys even when the volume from sound card was +3db more than the highest volume... the sound was insufficient to drive the speakers...

I auditioned his same sound card with altec lancing speakers and fell in love with that card... couldnt belive myself that the sound card sound that good...

I was expecting much from Dynes with that card...

his config is 200RMS into 4ohms and dynes should do pretty well for that muscle amp....

he will get a pre soon....

regards,
Sandeep

Had been to forum yesterday for the landmark sale…….managed to pick up some a telarc (ray brown cd) and some smokie stuff…….
Saw Sonodyne showroom and walked in. They had their top of the line floor-standers connected to their pre/power combo. Had a listen to some tracks to kill some time.
Really horrible. Bright, harsh cardboard sound. I don’t know how people pay so much for such garbage.

I am not too sure about their preamp. It may just give you even more cardboard bass.

I'm not getting the sonodyne pre Will get one built. Currently am searching diyaudio for a simple design based on LM4562.

Good.
Get it made.
Alternatively you may be able to get a Nad or Rotel used pre if you search around for around 10k.

I recently connected my Marantz cd67 se directly to my power amp section and it drove the speakers perfectly well. I have a volume control for the cd player and it worked just perfectly. Full bodied sound . I prefer the sound with my tube preamp but that is a different story.

square_wave schrieb:

Alternatively you may be able to get a Nad or Rotel used pre if you search around for around 10k.

Both these pre-amps are pathetic IMO.
Initially, even I was of the impression that these amplifier companies would definitely make decent pre-amps(something one on budget can trust blindly) but everytime I heard them I was heavily dissapointed .
They were always the weakest link even when the overall system config was in the same entry level range. It could only spoil the sound. I am talking about both Nad and Rotel entry-level pre-amps. Zhop please stay away from them even if you get it for 5k IMO.

Its great that you are going DIY as that means maximum bang for buck....just see to it that you dont experiment too much and just stick to a proven design (if possible listen to it somewhere if you can).
Way to go buddy

abhi.pani schrieb:

Its great that you are going DIY as that means maximum bang for buck....just see to it that you dont experiment too much and just stick to a proven design (if possible listen to it somewhere if you can).

I don't know enough to experiment I barely used to pass BEE in college Another reason for going diy is so I get to use the Alps pot and rca sockets that I have. I simply can't afford to waste money right now

zhopudey schrieb:

Another reason for going diy is so I get to use the Alps pot and rca sockets that I have.

Dont know how good a reason is that ..
Because you have some top notch equipments in your system and you have also found that pre-amp is a must...so just building something for the sake of consuming the left over parts is not exactly doing justice to the rest of the chain unless you know what you are doing and how well it will match your system.

abhi.pani schrieb:

square_wave schrieb: Alternatively you may be able to get a Nad or Rotel used pre if you search around for around 10k. Both these pre-amps are pathetic IMO. Initially, even I was of the impression that these amplifier companies would definitely make decent pre-amps(something one on budget can trust blindly) but everytime I heard them I was heavily dissapointed . They were always the weakest link even when the overall system config was in the same entry level range. It could only spoil the sound. I am talking about both Nad and Rotel entry-level pre-amps. Zhop please stay away from them even if you get it for 5k IMO. Its great that you are going DIY as that means maximum bang for buck....just see to it that you dont experiment too much and just stick to a proven design (if possible listen to it somewhere if you can). Way to go buddy :prost

So what is a good preamp in the used market for someone with 10k budget if he is looking at branded ?

square_wave schrieb:

abhi.pani schrieb: square_wave schrieb: Alternatively you may be able to get a Nad or Rotel used pre if you search around for around 10k. Both these pre-amps are pathetic IMO. Initially, even I was of the impression that these amplifier companies would definitely make decent pre-amps(something one on budget can trust blindly) but everytime I heard them I was heavily dissapointed . They were always the weakest link even when the overall system config was in the same entry level range. It could only spoil the sound. I am talking about both Nad and Rotel entry-level pre-amps. Zhop please stay away from them even if you get it for 5k IMO. Its great that you are going DIY as that means maximum bang for buck....just see to it that you dont experiment too much and just stick to a proven design (if possible listen to it somewhere if you can). Way to go buddy :prost So what is a good preamp in the used market for someone with 10k budget if he is looking at branded ?

1. When one is willing to go DIY..it doesnt make sense to assume he is looking at branded pre-amps only.

2. As for pre-amps which I liked much better was the Pulz (you would get one new for around 10k I think) and it kicks ass out of the entry level Nad and Rotel stuffs.
Even I liked the entry level preamp that Siva makes.

For that matter even the Sonodyne pre-amp did really well with their power amp and is working very well with the McCormack DNA-125 being used by one of our forum member Bobbyppl. I am yet to hear it with other power amps so wouldnt comment.

I havent explored the pre-power scenario much because I didnt need one but Nads and Rotels are supposed to be the kings of budget world and their quality (sonically) sucks big time when it comes to pre-amps as compared to their CDP and amps.
Infact I would be astonished if there is an argument on this..its pretty well known I suppose .

zhopudey schrieb:

abhi.pani schrieb: Its great that you are going DIY as that means maximum bang for buck....just see to it that you dont experiment too much and just stick to a proven design (if possible listen to it somewhere if you can). I don't know enough to experiment I barely used to pass BEE in college Another reason for going diy is so I get to use the Alps pot and rca sockets that I have. I simply can't afford to waste money right now :P

IF this is your first time in DIY..then believe me you will be spending a lot more than you have budgeted out. DIY is not about being cheap, rather it is about making something to suit your tastes. And have fun while doing it.

DIY may become 'cheap' after a couple of projects based on how good you are at it.

PLease donot get into DIY thinking it is going to turn out cheap 'cause you will probably be bitterly disappointed. And patience is one thing you need in spades in this hobby.

Zhops, why not sell the passive pre, and use the funds towards the purchase of an active pre?

Well, I'm gonna try out the simplest design. Probably something like this - http://www.diyaudio....did=92946&highlight=

Except that I'm thinking of using battery power. Costs remain in 3 digits for now. If this works out, then I'll try out things like changing opamps, etc. I also have to tackle other issues like room acoustics, and possibly change the speaker cables. Lets see...one thing at a time

Neutral schrieb:

Zhops, why not sell the passive pre, and use the funds towards the purchase of an active pre?

My passive is just a pot and 4 sockets wired together No point in selling it at a loss. And the few affordable pre's that I checked have horrible specs And they'll still cost me more than if I built one.

Since your budget is in 3 figures, it might make more sense in building an active Buffer stage into your pre...(before the pot)

am sure there are simple DYIs available for that..why let let the effort and money u spent on the pre go waste.

Nothing will be wasted! The pot and sockets will be used in the active pre

What does a buffer do? Is a buffer + passive pre = Active pre? I'll have to read up on buffers...

not exactly and active pre but you can think of it as a impedance transformer ie presents an easy load to the source and takes on the heavier load of the amp/speaker with a better designd PSU. usually supposed to be unity gain.

not a usually recommended component in true-blue Hifi, but might be a good option for you. i have an old MF x10D and it works well with DVD players.

read Stereophiles review of the MF X-10D. there is some theory there.

abhi.pani schrieb:

square_wave schrieb: abhi.pani schrieb: square_wave schrieb: Alternatively you may be able to get a Nad or Rotel used pre if you search around for around 10k. Both these pre-amps are pathetic IMO. Initially, even I was of the impression that these amplifier companies would definitely make decent pre-amps(something one on budget can trust blindly) but everytime I heard them I was heavily dissapointed . They were always the weakest link even when the overall system config was in the same entry level range. It could only spoil the sound. I am talking about both Nad and Rotel entry-level pre-amps. Zhop please stay away from them even if you get it for 5k IMO. Its great that you are going DIY as that means maximum bang for buck....just see to it that you dont experiment too much and just stick to a proven design (if possible listen to it somewhere if you can). Way to go buddy :prost So what is a good preamp in the used market for someone with 10k budget if he is looking at branded ? 1. When one is willing to go DIY..it doesnt make sense to assume he is looking at branded pre-amps only. 2. As for pre-amps which I liked much better was the Pulz (you would get one new for around 10k I think) and it kicks ass out of the entry level Nad and Rotel stuffs. Even I liked the entry level preamp that Siva makes. For that matter even the Sonodyne pre-amp did really well with their power amp and is working very well with the McCormack DNA-125 being used by one of our forum member Bobbyppl. I am yet to hear it with other power amps so wouldnt comment. I havent explored the pre-power scenario much because I didnt need one but Nads and Rotels are supposed to be the kings of budget world and their quality (sonically) sucks big time when it comes to pre-amps as compared to their CDP and amps. Infact I would be astonished if there is an argument on this..its pretty well known I suppose .

Have you done an A/B comparison of newer model preamps from Rotel / nad against the above mentioned Pulz Preamp in the same setup ? What were your observations ? Please be very specific about the music and what you observed in detail. Please mention the associated electronics also.

Everything in audio is very open to argument. I will be very astonished if it is not.
I was talking about branded preamps only. Please see the word ‘ALTERNATIVELY “ in my statement regarding the same.

Which model preamp from Rotel or Nad is crap for 5K used ? Why ? Please be specific on what is available in the market for that money and how that component will surpass the above mentioned Nad or Rotel model. Please mention engineering specifics or musical specifics based on your observations ?

Savyasaachi schrieb:

zhopudey schrieb: abhi.pani schrieb: Its great that you are going DIY as that means maximum bang for buck....just see to it that you dont experiment too much and just stick to a proven design (if possible listen to it somewhere if you can). I don't know enough to experiment I barely used to pass BEE in college Another reason for going diy is so I get to use the Alps pot and rca sockets that I have. I simply can't afford to waste money right now :P IF this is your first time in DIY..then believe me you will be spending a lot more than you have budgeted out. DIY is not about being cheap, rather it is about making something to suit your tastes. And have fun while doing it. DIY may become 'cheap' after a couple of projects based on how good you are at it. PLease donot get into DIY thinking it is going to turn out cheap 'cause you will probably be bitterly disappointed. And patience is one thing you need in spades in this hobby.

Agree here.
Diy is good and cost effective if you know what you are doing. Experiments can prove very costly. I think there are quite a few good kits available all over. I feel it is better you stick to them if you are looking for a cost effective solution.
But first check if a preamp is your actual problem by borrowing one from any forum member or friend.

square_wave schrieb:

abhi.pani schrieb: square_wave schrieb: abhi.pani schrieb: square_wave schrieb: Alternatively you may be able to get a Nad or Rotel used pre if you search around for around 10k. Both these pre-amps are pathetic IMO. Initially, even I was of the impression that these amplifier companies would definitely make decent pre-amps(something one on budget can trust blindly) but everytime I heard them I was heavily dissapointed . They were always the weakest link even when the overall system config was in the same entry level range. It could only spoil the sound. I am talking about both Nad and Rotel entry-level pre-amps. Zhop please stay away from them even if you get it for 5k IMO. Its great that you are going DIY as that means maximum bang for buck....just see to it that you dont experiment too much and just stick to a proven design (if possible listen to it somewhere if you can). Way to go buddy :prost So what is a good preamp in the used market for someone with 10k budget if he is looking at branded ? 1. When one is willing to go DIY..it doesnt make sense to assume he is looking at branded pre-amps only. 2. As for pre-amps which I liked much better was the Pulz (you would get one new for around 10k I think) and it kicks ass out of the entry level Nad and Rotel stuffs. Even I liked the entry level preamp that Siva makes. For that matter even the Sonodyne pre-amp did really well with their power amp and is working very well with the McCormack DNA-125 being used by one of our forum member Bobbyppl. I am yet to hear it with other power amps so wouldnt comment. I havent explored the pre-power scenario much because I didnt need one but Nads and Rotels are supposed to be the kings of budget world and their quality (sonically) sucks big time when it comes to pre-amps as compared to their CDP and amps. Infact I would be astonished if there is an argument on this..its pretty well known I suppose . Have you done an A/B comparison of newer model preamps from Rotel / nad against the above mentioned Pulz Preamp in the same setup ? What were your observations ? Please be very specific about the music and what you observed in detail. Please mention the associated electronics also. Everything in audio is very open to argument. I will be very astonished if it is not. I was talking about branded preamps only. Please see the word ‘ALTERNATIVELY “ in my statement regarding the same. Which model preamp from Rotel or Nad is crap for 5K used ? Why ? Please be specific on what is available in the market for that money and how that component will surpass the above mentioned Nad or Rotel model. Please mention engineering specifics or musical specifics based on your observations ?

You know what....your post doesnt seem to aim at helping Zhopudey or learning/listening from a fellow forum member...it looks disgusting .

Replying to this post doesnt make a lot of sense but still for the sake of making things clearer...here it goes

I was talking about branded preamps only. Please see the word ‘ALTERNATIVELY “ in my statement regarding the same.

I wouldnt care for that word "ALTERNATIVELY" even if I read your post 10 times because it makes no sense to me. When a product is crap...its crap no matter what...anyone reccommending such a product will always draw similar comments from me.

Have you done an A/B comparison of newer model preamps from Rotel / nad against the above mentioned Pulz Preamp in the same setup ?

WOAH WOAH!!!
How many times do we get to compare two completely different brands of equipments from different region exactly with the same setup ????????
If it was only for argument that you have asked this...enjoy yourself sir!!...we dont have such facilities/tie-up with dealers at our end..sorryimages/smilies/insane.gif .
But for your info, I have heard the Pulz pre-amp with Rotel RB-991 power amp as well as one of the Nad pre-amp (I dont remember the model)...Nad was super-dry, no bass, bright kind of sound while Pulz was very balanced, a bit-warm with very tuneful bass. Speakers wharfdale diamond 8.4/9.5 in the first case and Tannoy floorstanders (costing around 28k, dont remember the model) in the second case.

I have also heard the Nad C162 pre-amp and my conclusion didnt change.
Another such crap from Rotel was RC-1070 in my experience.
Again, I have heard this pre-amp with Rotel RB-991 but with Klipsch speakers.

Which model preamp from Rotel or Nad is crap for 5K used ? Why ? Please be specific on what is available in the market for that money and how that component will surpass the above mentioned Nad or Rotel model.

I have already mentioned which pre-amps I liked more for that kind of price. And for your info, I dont own any of these..unlike.. . So there is no biasing here.

Please mention engineering specifics or musical specifics based on your observations ?

Engineering specifics: You shouldnt be bothered about that because you were the one who always stood on top of Qutb-Minar and claimed you dont care about brand, engineering, specs, build, looks and all those crap...all you care about is sound.

Musical Specifics: I have already given above.

Aww...you two started again? Its not fun anymore guys. At least fight over some other topics

zhopudey schrieb:

Aww...you two started again? Its not fun anymore guys. At least fight over some other topics :P

Dont worry, that was my second last post .

I agree with abhi that the NAD preamps sound anal...not worth the 5k even if you got it new..

abhi.pani schrieb:

square_wave schrieb: abhi.pani schrieb: square_wave schrieb: abhi.pani schrieb: square_wave schrieb: Alternatively you may be able to get a Nad or Rotel used pre if you search around for around 10k. Both these pre-amps are pathetic IMO. Initially, even I was of the impression that these amplifier companies would definitely make decent pre-amps(something one on budget can trust blindly) but everytime I heard them I was heavily dissapointed . They were always the weakest link even when the overall system config was in the same entry level range. It could only spoil the sound. I am talking about both Nad and Rotel entry-level pre-amps. Zhop please stay away from them even if you get it for 5k IMO. Its great that you are going DIY as that means maximum bang for buck....just see to it that you dont experiment too much and just stick to a proven design (if possible listen to it somewhere if you can). Way to go buddy :prost So what is a good preamp in the used market for someone with 10k budget if he is looking at branded ? 1. When one is willing to go DIY..it doesnt make sense to assume he is looking at branded pre-amps only. 2. As for pre-amps which I liked much better was the Pulz (you would get one new for around 10k I think) and it kicks ass out of the entry level Nad and Rotel stuffs. Even I liked the entry level preamp that Siva makes. For that matter even the Sonodyne pre-amp did really well with their power amp and is working very well with the McCormack DNA-125 being used by one of our forum member Bobbyppl. I am yet to hear it with other power amps so wouldnt comment. I havent explored the pre-power scenario much because I didnt need one but Nads and Rotels are supposed to be the kings of budget world and their quality (sonically) sucks big time when it comes to pre-amps as compared to their CDP and amps. Infact I would be astonished if there is an argument on this..its pretty well known I suppose . Have you done an A/B comparison of newer model preamps from Rotel / nad against the above mentioned Pulz Preamp in the same setup ? What were your observations ? Please be very specific about the music and what you observed in detail. Please mention the associated electronics also. Everything in audio is very open to argument. I will be very astonished if it is not. I was talking about branded preamps only. Please see the word ‘ALTERNATIVELY “ in my statement regarding the same. Which model preamp from Rotel or Nad is crap for 5K used ? Why ? Please be specific on what is available in the market for that money and how that component will surpass the above mentioned Nad or Rotel model. Please mention engineering specifics or musical specifics based on your observations ? You know what....your post doesnt seem to aim at helping Zhopudey or learning/listening from a fellow forum member...it looks disgusting . Replying to this post doesnt make a lot of sense but still for the sake of making things clearer...here it goes I was talking about branded preamps only. Please see the word ‘ALTERNATIVELY “ in my statement regarding the same. I wouldnt care for that word "ALTERNATIVELY" even if I read your post 10 times because it makes no sense to me. When a product is crap...its crap no matter what...anyone reccommending such a product will always draw similar comments from me.images/smilies/insane.gif Have you done an A/B comparison of newer model preamps from Rotel / nad against the above mentioned Pulz Preamp in the same setup ? WOAH WOAH!!! How many times do we get to compare two completely different brands of equipments from different region exactly with the same setup ???????? If it was only for argument that you have asked this...enjoy yourself sir!!...we dont have such facilities/tie-up with dealers at our end..sorryimages/smilies/insane.gif . But for your info, I have heard the Pulz pre-amp with Rotel RB-991 power amp as well as one of the Nad pre-amp (I dont remember the model)...Nad was super-dry, no bass, bright kind of sound while Pulz was very balanced, a bit-warm with very tuneful bass. Speakers wharfdale diamond 8.4/9.5 in the first case and Tannoy floorstanders (costing around 28k, dont remember the model) in the second case. I have also heard the Nad C162 pre-amp and my conclusion didnt change. Another such crap from Rotel was RC-1070 in my experience. Again, I have heard this pre-amp with Rotel RB-991 but with Klipsch speakers. Which model preamp from Rotel or Nad is crap for 5K used ? Why ? Please be specific on what is available in the market for that money and how that component will surpass the above mentioned Nad or Rotel model. I have already mentioned which pre-amps I liked more for that kind of price. And for your info, I dont own any of these..unlike.. . So there is no biasing here. Please mention engineering specifics or musical specifics based on your observations ? Engineering specifics: You shouldnt be bothered about that because you were the one who always stood on top of Qutb-Minar and claimed you dont care about brand, engineering, specs, build, looks and all those crap...all you care about is sound. Musical Specifics: I have already given above.

No specifics.
No conclusion drawn based on direct AB comparisons
No alternative 5k preamp.
No engineering specifics or direct AB comparison review to validate your claim that there is another 5k preamp is there to beat them.

So it is just your opinion which is VERY open to argument. Great.