Suggestion to improve sound

hi vjc,

try a valve amp. since you're based in delhi you can drop in at viren's place. the missions are high sensitivity i think round 89 or more. so the amp would be able to drive your speakers. the sound would change dramatically!

treat your room and try placing your speakers and see the difference. treat your front wall (bookshelves or anything to break up the even surface of the wall) and sides (absorbing material and diffusing material mix or any one as per your preference) and you'll find a greater improvement than any system change.

regards

Hi vjc,
I would go by Steve's second recommendation...
If possible try to get a good acoustic consultant and treat your room. The room treatment would be based on your room response which the acoustic engineer would be able to find through softwares (if he doesnt have one then stay away from him ). That would bring about one of the major changes to sound.
In case you are not in a position to do this (due to any reason) upgrade your CDP...check out a NAD, Marantz, Cambridge Audio CDP and according to your taste upgrade to one of them...its a must IMO .

I find myself in the same position as vjc. Even choosing the source is not easy. There are several possibilities. You can buy either a CD player or a Universal DVD player. It depends on which of the following features are important.

In a CD Player we want:

1) CD-Audio playback
2) CD-R support
3) MP3 playback (absent in Cambridge Audio CDPs)
4) HDCD decoding (" ditto ")
5) SACD support (not at this price)
6) CD-Text support (nice but not essential)
7) Built-in headphone amp (ala Marantz CD-5001)

Among CDPs you have Marantz CD-5001 (supports all above except 4,5 & 6) for 14.5k, CA 540C V2 for 17k and 640C V2 for 23.5k (both support only 1 and 2!). No idea about NAD but I'd guess mid- and upper-20's.


If movies are important then a universal player might be important. So in a DVD player we may want:

A) Built-in DTS decoding (Dolby Digital is quite common but this one's a rarity)
B) SACD support
C) DVD-A support
D) MP3 playback on DVD-R (you'd think it would, but some support only MP3 on CD-R)
E) 12-bit Video DAC
F) USB support
G) *** Decent CD playback (the most important one) ***

The Cambridge Audio DVD89 is 12.5k (supports all except A & F, the only one to do G reasonably well). Pioneer DV-696AV is 12k (does all of the above! But suffers for G). Denon 1930 is officially 31.5k but sells globally for 16-18k (grey-market a possibility?) - pity since it does A-G, except F, very well.

Of course the easiest would be to add a CD player to the setup. But then sound would remain the same for movies. I've been pondering this for 2 weeks and I haven't made a decision.

Use your PC as source. Get a good soundcard.

zhopudey schrieb:

Use your PC as source. Get a good soundcard. :)

This would have been the ideal solution if a good DVD-ROM drive was available and there was a way to eliminate system noise infiltrating the sound card's output. Also power-consumption is a tad worrying.

A Linux-based HTPC would be unbeatable. The following video is worth watching to get a taste of what such a PC could do:
http://video.google....87272477313460&hl=en
(Note: disregard the Video Has Been Replaced warning, the updated link on the right goes to a walkthrough, not the same comparison).

particleman schrieb:

I find myself in the same position as vjc. Even choosing the source is not easy. There are several possibilities. You can buy either a CD player or a Universal DVD player. It depends on which of the following features are important. In a CD Player we want: 1) CD-Audio playback 2) CD-R support 3) MP3 playback (absent in Cambridge Audio CDPs) 4) HDCD decoding (" ditto ") 5) SACD support (not at this price) 6) CD-Text support (nice but not essential) 7) Built-in headphone amp (ala Marantz CD-5001) Among CDPs you have Marantz CD-5001 (supports all above except 4,5 & 6) for 14.5k, CA 540C V2 for 17k and 640C V2 for 23.5k (both support only 1 and 2!). No idea about NAD but I'd guess mid- and upper-20's. If movies are important then a universal player might be important. So in a DVD player we may want: A) Built-in DTS decoding (Dolby Digital is quite common but this one's a rarity) B) SACD support C) DVD-A support D) MP3 playback on DVD-R (you'd think it would, but some support only MP3 on CD-R) E) 12-bit Video DAC F) USB support G) *** Decent CD playback (the most important one) *** The Cambridge Audio DVD89 is 12.5k (supports all except A & F, the only one to do G reasonably well). Pioneer DV-696AV is 12k (does all of the above! But suffers for G). Denon 1930 is officially 31.5k but sells globally for 16-18k (grey-market a possibility?) - pity since it does A-G, except F, very well. Of course the easiest would be to add a CD player to the setup. But then sound would remain the same for movies. I've been pondering this for 2 weeks and I haven't made a decision.

The more formats a cd player supports the worse they are unless they are the firightningly expensive universal players.
Best is to stick to a cd player that reads cd and cdr only if you value sound quality over everything else.
Keep it simple for the best sound.

I'm with StevieBoy - an untreated room would be a pretty weak link and an upgrade there would give you great results and last you forever if you don't have to move.

The top things you need to look at are boundary reinforcement, early reflections and room modes. Depending on the way your room and equipment is set up, you may also need to look at floor bounce(if you're at a distance > 3m). Treating the room to take of all these issues (there is no cure for room modes but knowing them will help you position your equipment and yourself) will have a significant effect on the sound quality, specifically the low end and imaging. On the other hand, I'm not sure what solutions are available where you live, and at what cost.

Or if your apartment is rented, then things change a bit.

Your source is indeed very weak, a good entry level outboard will be a nice upgrade but I'm not sure it'll fit your budget ~350 dollars. There are some kit and entry-level solutions available on the 'net that you can hook up to your DVD player or a PC with SPDIF or USB. That would be a decent upgrade if you just want gear. I know of only one which is the Zhalou, there are others available as well from similar sources. Be aware that PCs generate their own noise, due to all the fans. They are also electrically very noisy, and the PCI implementation is not up to scratch in a lot of motherboards, polluting the main power lines with noise up to a few hundred microvolts. If you do not want to tackle these issues, a DAC hooked up to your player will be a whole lot better than your current source.

square_wave schrieb:

The more formats a cd player supports the worse they are unless they are the firightningly expensive universal players. Best is to stick to a cd player that reads cd and cdr only if you value sound quality over everything else. Keep it simple for the best sound.

Thanks, square_wave. I guess that settles it. I suspected as much but that need to get more bang for your buck always surfaces.

Vjc: sorry for hijacking your thread there. Have you heard the Marantz CD-5001? If you choose not to treat your room for whatever reason, that seems like a good player for its price.

Eric_Clapton: The DAC seems like a great idea consider Pioneer DVD players are sturdy transports - problem is where to get them and what price in India.

Not sure you'll get them in India, AFAIK.

You might want to consider directly dealing with the Hong Kong vendors. They already ship all over the world and some accept Paypal and credit cards.

On the other hand, this is a nice business opportunity - someone can start making nice DACs and selling them domestically - unless somebody already does. The chipsets are freely available, and the 'net is packed with good designs and app notes. India already makes a lot of test equipment for export, so the assets should be available but maybe the market isn't big enough to justify a foray.

Thanks to

stevieboy

abhi-pani

particleman

zhoupudey

square-wave

eric-clapton

in the order suggestions poured.

For the time being, I have the following limitations:

- I live in Govt Qtr. So the accoustic modification is not within my hand !
- I am personally not inspired by Tube technology.So I cannot accept it.
- To use sound card as source, I will have to dedicate my PC for music which is currently shared by my family.( This attract wrath from them for hijacking the PC in addition to the noise created by music playback !)

The suggestion for going for Marantz 5001 appears to suit my need within my budget. But I would like to know if this CD player support MP3 play back too ? Any other players on par with Marantz in price and performance available in India (Delhi) ?

Your comments are welcome. Thanks in advance.

vjc

vjc schrieb:

Thanks to stevieboy abhi-pani particleman zhoupudey square-wave eric-clapton in the order suggestions poured. For the time being, I have the following limitations: - I live in Govt Qtr. So the accoustic modification is not within my hand ! - I am personally not inspired by Tube technology.So I cannot accept it. - To use sound card as source, I will have to dedicate my PC for music which is currently shared by my family.( This attract wrath from them for hijacking the PC in addition to the noise created by music playback !) The suggestion for going for Marantz 5001 appears to suit my need within my budget. But I would like to know if this CD player support MP3 play back too ? Any other players on par with Marantz in price and performance available in India (Delhi) ? Your comments are welcome. Thanks in advance. vjc

Given your limitations you can’t do much about acoustics. So you could probably improve on the electronics and cables.

CD Player: The Marantz or the entry level from Cambridge audio should suit you just fine.
Amplifier: If you have the budget, pick up an entry level NAD, Maratnz or Cambridge audio integrated. Try the used market, you will get plenty of them around 12 to 16k depending on their condition.
Cables: Change your speaker cables and interconnects to good quality DIY ones (to save cost).

This should give you a big upgrade.

Hi Vjc,
As far as I see your current configuration, budget and constraints...your immediate upgrade needs to be the source (you already know the brands, yes CD-5001 supports mp3 ).
As for amplifier, I have seen a few technics amp in the recent past and they are far better than the entry level amps you get from imported brands...so I would suggest, for the amp, keep patience, save some money and go for a entry-mid level amp (35-50k) and you would be happy with the upgrade. Even if it means waiting for a year or so, its well worth it.

This I am saying with some experience, rest depends on your preference.

Regards
Abhi

I did an A/B between the Marantz CD5001 and a Cambridge Audio 340C at Audio Planet and the latter was better in almost every aspect. Better resolution, better imaging, sound was much more airy and way way better bass. The Marantz sounded absolutely dreadful.

The supporting equipment was a Marantz PM7200 amplifier and a pair of Mordaunt Short Mezzo 6 floorstanders.

reignofchaos schrieb:

I did an A/B between the Marantz CD5001 and a Cambridge Audio 340C at Audio Planet and the latter was better in almost every aspect. Better resolution, better imaging, sound was much more airy and way way better bass. The Marantz sounded absolutely dreadful. The supporting equipment was a Marantz PM7200 amplifier and a pair of Mordaunt Short Mezzo 6 floorstanders.

Yikes! And to think I was so keen on the Marantz. A pity since it has the rather attractive feature of a built-in headphone amp. Did you get a chance to compare it to the CA 540C or 640C? I like their sound but hadn't found a Marantz dealer with a listening room here in Mumbai or a chance to A/B them. As I understand it the 340C has a lot of Sony electronics while the 540 upwards use better electronics?

vjc schrieb:

But I would like to know if this CD player support MP3 play back too ?

You know, I've been thinking about this quite a bit and wonder if MP3 support is really worth looking at. After all a portable music player like the iPod (yes there are better devices but none with a 80-160GB capacity) is far more convenient. All your music at the touch of a button instead of various CDs holding MP3s. Another concern is navigation. Right now the Pioneer is slow and awkward with song navigation. To go from Song 2 in Folder A to Song 8 in Folder B is several keystrokes of work as opposed to the iPod with its playlists.

Another CD player around the 15k mark is the Denon DCD-500AE. Read a rather poor review of it in the latest What Hi-Fi but I would rather listen to the experts here.

particleman schrieb:

reignofchaos schrieb: I did an A/B between the Marantz CD5001 and a Cambridge Audio 340C at Audio Planet and the latter was better in almost every aspect. Better resolution, better imaging, sound was much more airy and way way better bass. The Marantz sounded absolutely dreadful. The supporting equipment was a Marantz PM7200 amplifier and a pair of Mordaunt Short Mezzo 6 floorstanders. Yikes! And to think I was so keen on the Marantz. A pity since it has the rather attractive feature of a built-in headphone amp. Did you get a chance to compare it to the CA 540C or 640C? I like their sound but hadn't found a Marantz dealer with a listening room here in Mumbai or a chance to A/B them. As I understand it the 340C has a lot of Sony electronics while the 540 upwards use better electronics?

Didn't bother checking. A friend wanted a CD player to be used as a transport with an external dac. All the players upto 640C have the same transport. Its only the DAC section that is different. The 340C uses a cheapo crystal 4336 while the 540C and 640C have wolfson dacs. The latter has them in dual differential configuration. Checked the 640C and 340C... exactly same transport.

abhi.pani schrieb:

Hi Vjc, As far as I see your current configuration, budget and constraints...your immediate upgrade needs to be the source (you already know the brands, yes CD-5001 supports mp3 ). As for amplifier, I have seen a few technics amp in the recent past and they are far better than the entry level amps you get from imported brands...so I would suggest, for the amp, keep patience, save some money and go for a entry-mid level amp (35-50k) and you would be happy with the upgrade. Even if it means waiting for a year or so, its well worth it. This I am saying with some experience, rest depends on your preference. Regards Abhi

Totally disagree here.
I have had a series of amps from Sansui, Technics and Pioneer before I picked up a Nad integrated. There is world of difference for those who can hear it between typical Japanese amps and the entry level integrateds from NAD, Rotel, CA etc… The only amp I liked from the Japanese was a pioneer A400 which came into my hands when I was not ready for it. This was a decade back when I was running Bose speakers with a sansui integrated. I was at ‘Party mode” those days and didn’t like the stripped down amp with no tone controls. A friend of mine picked it up and is still using it with PMC speakers in his secondary system. I keep hearing this one in his house and it is quite special. I do not know this particular Technics model. Compare it with an entry level Nad, CA or Rotel and see for yourself. You may be in for a big surprise. There is no point in torturing yourself with a typical Japanese amp if you can afford something better. The worse amp was Yamaha 100 watts amp which I compared with my vintage Sansui. The sansui was far better. Unless you check, you will never know.

Of course, amps costing 40-50 k are better if you can afford them.

square_wave schrieb:

There is world of difference for those who can hear it between typical Japanese amps and the entry level integrateds from NAD, Rotel, CA etc…

1. Why do you always have to prove that you have golden ears...??? Any inferiority complex there.... .
We know you have 5 decades of listening experience and diamond studded ears...please dont bother to prove it at every other opportunity you get.


2. I wonder, you are such a big fan of DIY (your speakers, preamp, cables etc), how come you dont recommend a DIY amp to vjc ?? ..why only NAD, Rotel and CA stuffs .
Its a sincere question...really .

abhi.pani schrieb:

square_wave schrieb: There is world of difference for those who can hear it between typical Japanese amps and the entry level integrateds from NAD, Rotel, CA etc… 1. Why do you always have to prove that you have golden ears...??? Any inferiority complex there.... . We know you have 5 decades of listening experience and diamond studded ears...please dont bother to prove it at every other opportunity you get. 2. I wonder, you are such a big fan of DIY (your speakers, preamp, cables etc), how come you dont recommend a DIY amp to vjc ?? ..why only NAD, Rotel and CA stuffs . Its a sincere question...really .

Why are you so worked up ? You stated your opinion and I stated mine.

Let the poster himself form his own opinion about this after he does a comparison. He will know the difference depending upon where he is currently perched in the audiophile chasm.

Why do you think that I am interested in the pearls of wisdom that you shower about how I should I conduct myself on the forum ? Who are you ? Why do you think I am interested in your sincere questions about DIY ?

There is world of difference for those who can hear it between typical Japanese amps and the entry level integrateds from NAD, Rotel, CA etc…

It may not be true my friend. There is nothing like Japanees built or Chinees built is bad & only US,UK bulits are acceptable etc..etc...It all depends on the design & quality of the comps used in it.

square_wave schrieb:

Why are you so worked up ?

Now why are you worked up...
Kya hua...Gussa aaya!!! now cmon cool down .

You stated your opinion and I stated mine. Let the poster himself form his own opinion about this after he does a comparison. He will know the difference depending upon where he is currently perched in the audiophile chasm.

Exactly...even I think the same..you see
I wrote:

This I am saying with some experience, rest depends on your preference.

Why do you think that I am interested in the pearls of wisdom that you shower about how I should I conduct myself on the forum ? Who are you ? Why do you think I am interested in your sincere questions about DIY ?

That is all OK...but I am still wondering why dont you recommend a DIY amp to vjc ???

but I am still wondering why dont you recommend a DIY amp to vjc ???

DIY might sound better than any entry level stuff. Again it all depends on the design & copmos used. IMO, howmuch ever good, DIY stuffs sound, if you buy, you've to keep it for ever. Reselling them would be difficult.

Hi Powersupply,
Nice to see you .

DIY might sound better than any entry level stuff. Again it all depends on the design & copmos used. IMO, howmuch ever good, DIY stuffs sound, if you buy, you've to keep it for ever. Reselling them would be difficult.

I understand that my friend but our buddy square_wave has a differnt thought process...he believes DIY gives maximum bang for buck and thats the reason I asked, why not recommend a DIY amp for vjc as well...whats wrong in answering that ??

powersupply schrieb:

There is world of difference for those who can hear it between typical Japanese amps and the entry level integrateds from NAD, Rotel, CA etc… It may not be true my friend. There is nothing like Japanees built or Chinees built is bad & only US,UK bulits are acceptable etc..etc...It all depends on the design & quality of the comps used in it.

Your assumption is right when it comes to hifi that is built these days. The hifi build in Asia is as good as anything made anywhere else.I don't think the discussion here has anything to do with this at all.

It is a totaly different story when it comes to comparing old technics/sansui/yamaha/pioneer gear with good designs from europe like Nad, Rotel, Cambridge audio, Burson etc...

Btw: DIY is not just bang for buck like what SQ Wave says. They can beat any hi-end if done right. I have seen this happening quite a lot... But DIY requires a state of mind which is not for everyone.

Could someone suggest a DIY DAC project with components available in India ?

There are plenty of such projects on the Web but unfortunately ICs and transformers need to be sourced from abroad. Also a first hand experience on how the design sounds, each designer always praises his own product.

hurricane_hojo wrote:

Btw: DIY is not just bang for buck like what SQ Wave says. They can beat any hi-end if done right. I have seen this happening quite a lot... But DIY requires a state of mind which is not for everyone.

Obvioulsy DIY has to deliver more bang to get noticed/establised when compared to other comml brands in the same range. What I tried to mention was, when you want to resell it (in case of upgradation etc etc..) it may not move fast like reputed brands. Finally, one who cares for only quality sound, it doesn't matter for him whether it's DIY stuff, Jap, Chinees or US make.

I've seen people who still using decade old amps irrespective of their make & addicted to their sounds. I'm afraid, our discussions are going out of way

abhi.pani wrote:

I understand that my friend but our buddy square_wave has a differnt thought process...he believes DIY gives maximum bang for buck and thats the reason I asked, why not recommend a DIY amp for vjc as well...whats wrong in answering that ??

Our friend SW must've good exposure on DIY stuffs & nothing wrong if he recommends it. Also, as said by h.hojo they may even beat any hi-end if done right. It all left to the choice of buyer who invests his money in it.

powersupply schrieb:

hurricane_hojo wrote: Btw: DIY is not just bang for buck like what SQ Wave says. They can beat any hi-end if done right. I have seen this happening quite a lot... But DIY requires a state of mind which is not for everyone. Obvioulsy DIY has to deliver more bang to get noticed/establised when compared to other comml brands in the same range. What I tried to mention was, when you want to resell it (in case of upgradation etc etc..) it may not move fast like reputed brands. Finally, one who cares for only quality sound, it doesn't matter for him whether it's DIY stuff, Jap, Chinees or US make. I've seen people who still using decade old amps irrespective of their make & addicted to their sounds. I'm afraid, our discussions are going out of way :L

Most DIY guys are mostly obsessed with how it sounds. They are not too bothered by the sticker on the chassis. Most senior guys into DIY know designs inside out and they are in it for the passion so resale does not matter. The bonus is fantastic sound which is not possible otherwise unless you sell your leg and arm.
A DIY Aksa 55 watter with an inexpensive passive preamp will beat any of these entry level integrateds made by most brands. It may beat many brands under 60-70k also as observed by many users of such designs all over the world. I am not quite sure if Vjc is quite ready for something like that. Alternatively there are very inexpensive (but very good) power amp modules available online. I have seen some fantastic implementations of such designs by Siva of Corrson.

Keep in mind that for most commercial Hi Fi, the Electrical & Electronic components cost cannot exceed 10% of MRP.

Most DIY stuff spends 80% of the money & thought on Components.

Of course this does not guarantee good sound, if a good design is not choosen or the DIY not assembled well.

However spending 80% on the electronics does usually guarantee that the produict will look like its been put together by "An Orangutan with a screw-driver"

(BTW I have been an avid DIY)

Amp_Nut schrieb:

However spending 80% on the electronics does usually guarantee that the produict will look like its been put together by "An Orangutan with a screw-driver" (BTW I have been an avid DIY) :L

That is a good one…..

I have seen very expensive DIY stuff put together with careful thought with technically clean and sound layouts though.

Amp_Nut wrote:

Keep in mind that for most commercial Hi Fi, the Electrical & Electronic components cost cannot exceed 10% of MRP. Most DIY stuff spends 80% of the money & thought on Components. Of course this does not guarantee good sound, if a good design is not choosen or the DIY not assembled well. However spending 80% on the electronics does usually guarantee that the produict will look like its been put together by "An Orangutan with a screw-driver"

I fully agree with you sir..

square_wave wrote:

I have seen very expensive DIY stuff put together with careful thought with technically clean and sound layouts though.

Good. Can you name 1-2? I would like to listen to them if possible.

Attributed to reignofchaos:

"The Marantz sounded absolutely dreadful. " Alas ! Should I need a rethink on Marantz ?


Square_wave:

My amp model is SU-A600MKII (FET based vintage amplifier)

Though the sound is not brilliant it is musical for my small room,besides I would like to keep it for another two years more due to budget constraints. I dont think I would go by the DIY route either.

Quoted by particleman :
"After all a portable music player like the iPod (yes there are better devices but none with a 80-160GB capacity) is far more convenient. All your music at the touch of a button instead of various CDs holding MP3s. " Personally I wouldn't prefer headphones to listen to music.

Any other propositions ?

Thanks

vjc

Hi vjc,
Dont worry, you are not loosing much by not buying a entry level amp....rather it would be really nice if you save up and buy an Arcam or Roksan later. That takes you a lot closer to the actual hifi world.
I have seen many instances where people upgrade from there vintage seperates to entry level amp + bookshelf combo and are left scratching there heads thinking what they have done to themselves. I dont say that an entry level amp + speaker is not good..its just that it is a big upgrade from a mini-compo while its not worth upgrading from Vintage seperates (I assume they are in good working condition) IMHO. Yes, hifi has a lot more to offer but you need to graduate to the right level to actually qualify it as an upgrade and enjoy the same.
This has been my observation which I am sharing...
If one needs to depend on "Golden Ears" to enjoy an upgrade then its not an upgrade in the first place IMO...its more of a snake oil .

vjc schrieb:

Attributed to reignofchaos: "The Marantz sounded absolutely dreadful. " Alas ! Should I need a rethink on Marantz ? Square_wave: My amp model is SU-A600MKII (FET based vintage amplifier) Though the sound is not brilliant it is musical for my small room,besides I would like to keep it for another two years more due to budget constraints. I dont think I would go by the DIY route either. Quoted by particleman : "After all a portable music player like the iPod (yes there are better devices but none with a 80-160GB capacity) is far more convenient. All your music at the touch of a button instead of various CDs holding MP3s. " Personally I wouldn't prefer headphones to listen to music. Any other propositions ? Thanks vjc

Frankly the choice of the Marantz over anything else is not your biggest problem now. Even with a cd player of a lesser pedigree than the Marantz, you won't extract anything out of it with the Vintage Technics that you have. Upgrade the amp to something better. Get decent interconnects and speaker cables and you are set to go.

Frankly I think you should hit the road now and check out stuff for yourself and post back your feedback. We can help you further later once we know what you experienced.

There is no point expecting some sure shot formula from any forum member. It does not exist. You will have to find it yourself.

Opinions are like "you know what ??" Everyone has one. It is just that.

vjc schrieb:

I would rate my system as reasonably satisfactory to my soul when I listen to Jazz. But seeing the pursuit of many looking for the divine sound in this forum, I am tempted to go for some minimum upgrade. What can I do improve the sound further ? I can afford to spent upto Rs.15000/-. I am contemplating advices to change the source. I would appreciate your valuable comments; but would like to add that I dont eye on achieving the holy grail of music Niravana thro' this change! .

vjc, if you have a system that satisfies the soul..why upgrade ?
for 15 K if you really want an upgrade a used cdp might be a good choice, but the weakness as ,mentioned by hurricane_Hojo above is your amp. so for the budget you have mentioned you may just move a lateral step with perhaps some improvements.

but if you are already happy with the sound do you really want an upgrade ? 15K can get a lot of cds ..and you might enjoy it more !this vicious cycle of upgrades can get meaningless and the more you upgrade the lesser cds you will enjoy !
Another area which may give you most benefits may be isolation ie vibration control of the speaker and the source.. what stand/rack do u use ?

BTW, if you are ok with buying from abroad, you might a good deal on audiogon etc.

the singapore hi-fi forum also has some interesting stuff for sale. eg the below
http://www.echoloft....splay&num=1195972572

a cyrus 2 at 400 SGD might not really be too bad..definitely an improvement from the technic..but is is really a do at your own risk thing as i am not really sure of how reliable these folks are..

your best bet at that price range might be to see if you can buy local...

Arj schrieb:

BTW, if you are ok with buying from abroad, you might a good deal on audiogon etc. the singapore hi-fi forum also has some interesting stuff for sale. eg the below http://www.echoloft....splay&num=1195972572 a cyrus 2 at 400 SGD might not really be too bad..definitely an improvement from the technic..but is is really a do at your own risk thing as i am not really sure of how reliable these folks are.. your best bet at that price range might be to see if you can buy local...

That was a good suggestion from Arj...check out used amps (if possible within India) for your budget. I guess you can get a used Marantz PM-7200 (I know someone who has it, let me check it out).

hurricane_hojo stated:

Frankly the choice of the Marantz over anything else is not your biggest problem now. Even with a cd player of a lesser pedigree than the Marantz, you won't extract anything out of it with the Vintage Technics that you have. Upgrade the amp to something better. Get decent interconnects and speaker cables and you are set to go. Frankly I think you should hit the road now and check out stuff for yourself and post back your feedback. We can help you further later once we know what you experienced. There is no point expecting some sure shot formula from any forum member. It does not exist. You will have to find it yourself.

I am put in a dilemma to ask another question:

Does the amplifier would contribute more to music than a good CD player in the component system ? If so how much quantitavely ? What factor the sound is smoothen by "decent interconnects and speaker cables" ?

Arj wrote:

15K can get a lot of cds ..and you might enjoy it more !this vicious cycle of upgrades can get meaningless and the more you upgrade the lesser cds you will enjoy ! Another area which may give you most benefits may be isolation ie vibration control of the speaker and the source.. what stand/rack do u use ?

I would have gone ahead with purchase of CDs and life would have been far simple had this wonderful forum not existed ! The temptations for improving the sound becone so obsessive thanks to you wonderful people on this forum !

My speaker is 2 way floorstanding and therfore selfstanding.

The electronics are placed on a rack that houses the TV too. I dont think vibrations play any role here.

I dont find any room further improvement in this department.

Thanks

vjc

vjc schrieb:

Does the amplifier would contribute more to music than a good CD player in the component system ? If so how much quantitavely ? What factor the sound is smoothen by "decent interconnects and speaker cables" ?

all components (source/amp/speaker/power) contribute "equally" and the weakest link is the bottleneck. you will never get 1 quatitative answer from anyone other than a long discussion which will only confuse you further..but worry about getting the Big 3 ie cdp, amp and speaker right and then worry about cables.

the component which contributes more than 50% is the room itself and there is a lot of benefit to be had by treating that irrespective of your system.

vjc schrieb:

My speaker is 2 way floorstanding and therfore selfstanding. The electronics are placed on a rack that houses the TV too. I dont think vibrations play any role here.

I dont think you realise how wrong you could be here ..but again, your problem right now does appear to be the amp..but again all of us are trying to solve your problem by your definition of the problem...if i could give a medical analogy, its very much liking writing an email to a doctror about your desease

vjc schrieb:

I would have gone ahead with purchase of CDs and life would have been far simple had this wonderful forum not existed ! The temptations for improving the sound becone so obsessive thanks to you wonderful people on this forum !

It appears you are already hooked . would suggest you dont invest now,just listen to other setups try to get exactly what you are missing and then move forward slowely but surely..just another upgrade may see you doing the same again very soon and that would be a sad waste of Money.
you are starting with an advantage of already having a system. so if you are smart about where you put your money you could be a happy audiophile ( i have to call you that now!)

Dear VJC,

vjc said

I would have gone ahead with purchase of CDs and life would have been far simple had this wonderful forum not existed ! The temptations for improving the sound becone so obsessive thanks to you wonderful people on this forum !

I am not at all familiar with your gear but reading the above would like to direct your attention to a point that may save you money on long term.

1. Please try and listen to as many setups as you can, be it at a friends place or showroom.

2. Listening carefully to other systems can give you a fair idea of what are the strengths and weakness of your system.

3. Once you have shortlisted the problems you can set out to solve them.

4. Spending hard earned money in small installments on hifi may turn out to be costly affair and the dealer will be the only happy party. Instead of two up grades if you save up and spend wisely on a single upgrade you may get more value for the money.

I hope that I am not preaching Just thought of sharing my thoughts with you all.

Dear VJC,
I would suggest adding two dakiom(www.dakiom.com) stabilizer's,one for DVDP and one for amp.The set-up would jump many notches.
I can vouch for dakiom products,since I'm using them.
Also I would recommend doing all the DIY projects given on Dakiom site,they are worth it.
Thanks.