Stereo Speakers - what should I buy?

Jay,

Welcome

Some info on the amplifier/Receiver you are planning to run these speakers with will give a better picture in order to make a suggestion

Thanks Arj.

I use a Yamaha Stereo Amp AX 496 & also have a Yamaha Amp Receiver RX - V750.

But I use mainly 496 for listening to my kind of music.

496 is connected to a Yamaha CD player and Technics SL1210 MK5 turntable.

There are a lot of speakers in the range that you have mentioned and each has a different sonic signature..so it all depends on your taste in music as well as how you prefer your sound..

some other speakers in the same range are Wharfedale, Dynaudio 52 or 42, Quad 11/12,Monitor Audio etc but these all have subtle variations in presentation which may seem small in the initial 15 mins but over long listening can sound very different.

what you could do, if you are not in a hurry is to take your amplifier with you to various stores and try to listen to as many speakers as you can so you get a feel of what kind of musical presentation you like.

secondly, it does not make sense to put a constraint like 90dB sensitivity just yet as sensitivity is not fully representative of the ease of drive of a speaker..some 85dBs are easier to drive than some 90dB s. i think the amplifier you mentioned does have enough power to drive most speakers.

Thanks Arj.

Can you please guide me through as what are the main attributes I should consider before finalising the right pair of stereo speakers?

What role does sensitivity play?Also how do I judge a variance in toal quality or the representation?Is it more to do what I hear and perceive or are there few parameters which I should look for in judging the right tonal quality?

Need some help guys!!

jayashree, there are a lot of factors in audio..but to y9u what should matter is if it sounds pleasant and natural and if ytou are able to connect to it.

the "Wow" factor in the 1st 5 min coulod be your worst enemy so it is important that you take your own music, things whicch you are very familiar with to listen
some points you could keep in mind are

1. can you hear all the instruments clearly a(depends on the recording as well)
2. are the vocals clear and do you feel it could be a real person singing in front of you
3.are the high and low frequencies in harmony with the music or are they too much or too little

4. most importantly can you feel emotionally attached to the music

there are many more..but as this is your first system these could be the more important ones

so try to listen to each setup at least for 30mins to an hour. and carry your own music and your amp and cdp with you so you can hear the synergy well

alsolsiten to all the music you listen to on each setup.

once you are through you could post your impressions and folks here will be more than happy to help out.


one of the members here..Shahrukh had a pair of KEF iQ5 for sale..maybe you can get in touch with him to see if he still has it ? you could use the money saved for cables and more music

Thanks a lot Arj.

Kind of music I listen to :

1)Hindi film music - 60s,70s,80s mainly Salil Chaudhary,S,D,Burman & R.D.Burman.Both slow romantic numbers and jazzy fast numbers with all the acquastic rhthym and strings sound.

2)Western - mainly romantic love songs,country and a little bit of pop.No hard rock.


I would like to know:
1)What do you mean by high and low frequency sound?How do I differentiate that?Can you please explain me citing some example.

2)I keep hearing people say after listening to speakers that "the mid part is very rich OR say the bass is very good".Can you please explain what you mean by this?

I am sorry if I sound very stupid like a novice but I genuinely want to know the true meaning of the above.Then only I think I can differentiate between the speakers and finalise my own which suits me best.

No issues all of us have been through this and its better to ask

the three terms usually refer to 3 sections in the entire sudible sound spectrum of 20Hz to 20Khz

Highs: high frequencies..eg the little bells, the high notes of a sitar and flute etc. usually above 5Khz (?)

Mids: voices. these go from the low mids (eg jagajit singh on a low note to asha bhonsle on a high); around 150 Hz to 5Khz

Lows: drums, low notes of a guitar etc..they do have a "tactile" feeling as well eg drum being hit. below 150 Hz


bass being very high is what you need to be very careful about. most of us grow up listening to sound with bass turned all the way up..it takes some time before we learn that bass is not about quantity but quality.

try to google on sound quality and audio system audition. there is a lot of material out on the web on how to choose an audio system.

eg http://www.soundandv...dition-speakers.html

I think there was a great condition used acoustic portrait speaker going for around 30k. The MS 301
http://www.acousticportrait.com/ms301.html
When it comes to quality, these are far beyond any of those entry level speakers you are considering right now.
I remember Siva telling me that they are available still. Not sure now. You could ping siva on this forum by sending a PM.
Only issue is that the Yamaha amp you are planning to use may need to be upgraded

J,

for your kind of music , I recommend following set up:

1> A good Tube amp around 10-20 WPC pref Class A
2> Single Driver Full range High Effi speakers (92 db+)

Check Audire - Coimbaore , they have excellent Single Driver Full range speaker and 10 W Class Amp- TITAN (but in SS), if you sell that Yamaha then I hope you can buy their amp + (Book shelf)speakers.

Lyrita - New Delhi also makes good VFM Valve amplifiers and Single Driver Full range speakers , Lyrita 15 WPC Integrated Valve amp + Lyrita Harmony II sepakers can fit well within your budget (And in this case you don't need to sell yor YAMAHA, can keep it as a backup amp)

Hope this helps

I believe Jay already has an Amp and a cdp he may prefer a speaker which synergises with these...else of course there are other options

Arj schrieb:

I believe Jay already has an Amp and a cdp he may prefer a speaker which synergises with these...else of course there are other options

Adding a speaker pair might solve J's problem for today but it is not a long term solution.

Randomly selected and assembed componets (amp, source and speakers) won't make a music!

I believe in the philosophy that music system should be assembled based on listener's personality and music interests (and of course the budget.)

Selling an amp is lot easier than selling a pair of speakers.

I just provided a direction.

Arj schrieb:

one of the members here..Shahrukh had a pair of KEF iQ5 for sale..maybe you can get in touch with him to see if he still has it ? you could use the money saved for cables and more music ;)

Still do!

Mam, do PM me if you're interested.

Arj schrieb:

No issues all of us have been through this and its better to ask the three terms usually refer to 3 sections in the entire sudible sound spectrum of 20Hz to 20Khz Highs: high frequencies..eg the little bells, the high notes of a sitar and flute etc. usually above 5Khz (?) Mids: voices. these go from the low mids (eg jagajit singh on a low note to asha bhonsle on a high); around 150 Hz to 5Khz Lows: drums, low notes of a guitar etc..they do have a "tactile" feeling as well eg drum being hit. below 150 Hz bass being very high is what you need to be very careful about. most of us grow up listening to sound with bass turned all the way up..it takes some time before we learn that bass is not about quantity but quality. try to google on sound quality and audio system audition. there is a lot of material out on the web on how to choose an audio system. eg http://www.soundandv...dition-speakers.html

Thanks a lot for the enlightment.
How do I measure hz?How will I know Jagjit's voice at a low note is 150hz whereas Asha's at 5khz?

By Bass we all grew up knowing its all about the "HUMMMM" sound.Am I correct?

Surely I will go through the link provided by you and revert.

G_S_Madhav schrieb:

J, for your kind of music , I recommend following set up: 1> A good Tube amp around 10-20 WPC pref Class A 2> Single Driver Full range High Effi speakers (92 db+) Check Audire - Coimbaore , they have excellent Single Driver Full range speaker and 10 W Class Amp- TITAN (but in SS), if you sell that Yamaha then I hope you can buy their amp + (Book shelf)speakers. Lyrita - New Delhi also makes good VFM Valve amplifiers and Single Driver Full range speakers , Lyrita 15 WPC Integrated Valve amp + Lyrita Harmony II sepakers can fit well within your budget (And in this case you don't need to sell yor YAMAHA, can keep it as a backup amp) Hope this helps

Hi,
Isn't a Tube amp very costly?
Does Audire & Lyrita make their own Amps & Speakers?If so how good they will be in comparision to MNC brands?

square_wave schrieb:

I think there was a great condition used acoustic portrait speaker going for around 30k. The MS 301 http://www.acousticportrait.com/ms301.html When it comes to quality, these are far beyond any of those entry level speakers you are considering right now. I remember Siva telling me that they are available still. Not sure now. You could ping siva on this forum by sending a PM. Only issue is that the Yamaha amp you are planning to use may need to be upgraded :L

Thank you.
If I upgrade my existing Yamaha amp which model should I go for?Please remember I am interested only in 2channel stereo amp with Phono In.

Shahrukh schrieb:

Arj schrieb: one of the members here..Shahrukh had a pair of KEF iQ5 for sale..maybe you can get in touch with him to see if he still has it ? you could use the money saved for cables and more music ;) Still do! Mam, do PM me if you're interested.

Surely.But I am more inclined to buy brand new stuff.

jayashree schrieb:

square_wave schrieb: I think there was a great condition used acoustic portrait speaker going for around 30k. The MS 301 http://www.acousticportrait.com/ms301.html When it comes to quality, these are far beyond any of those entry level speakers you are considering right now. I remember Siva telling me that they are available still. Not sure now. You could ping siva on this forum by sending a PM. Only issue is that the Yamaha amp you are planning to use may need to be upgraded :L Thank you. If I upgrade my existing Yamaha amp which model should I go for?Please remember I am interested only in 2channel stereo amp with Phono In.

Depends on your budget.
Budget level Yamahas are very basic amplifiers and they gloss over much of the finer attributes of music reproduction.
I have owned pioneers, kenwoods, sansuis, Yamahas etc.. in the distant past. Most of these mainstream (MNC)
manufacturer’s entry/mid levels amps are pretty much useless. They have a few classic models but the Yamaha model you have is not one of that.
Forgive me for being so blunt….
Nad ,Arcam, Marantz, Rotel, Cambridge Audio are decent as an entry into hifi sound. You could look at these brands if you don’t want
to spend too much. Nad C352, Rotel RA06, Cambridge audio Azur 640c, Arcam diva A90 comes to mind as some decent entry level models.
If you want something better, you should be looking at Plinius, Primare, Arcam FMJ series, Cyrus, Linn etc…
All of the above are typical “ well known brands” and they cost a lot too.

Much better sound can be attained for the same money if you go for smaller “under ground brands” like odyssey audio, Nuforce, Flying mole, Red wine audio etc….

If you are open to Indian brands, great sound can be got from Acoustic portrait, Cadence, Audire audio etc…..

The single driver – full range speaker and tube amp from lyrita audio is another great indian option.

J,

How do I measure hz?
How will I know Jagjit's voice at a low note is 150hz whereas Asha's at 5khz?


You are getting too much into technical details and I am sure you will get tons of answers but that will only confuse you more.

At the end , music will take a back seat and all those brands, specifications, technology, terminology, this hardware –that hardware, upgrade today-upgrade tomorrow, power cords, cables, this wire- that wire, wonder tweaks, miracle remedies , all will over power you

Don’t get offended but it seems that knowingly / unknowingly you are entering into a vicious circle of audiophalia.

(I can say this because, I too started on the similar lines and later became vicim of all this audiophalia, audionervosa, Upgraditis, Tweakomania, brand-o-jaundice)

For your kind of music, valve amplification is more suitable that‘s why I suggested it to you in the first place (while keeping your budget in mind) but after looking at the direction you are heading to, I would now suggest :

Forget all that and buy a decent pair of speakers within your budget and close the case. you will be mory happy and reamin happy for years to come.

I concur with what GS madhav mentions. there is not end to this so go in the direction you were heading in in your 1st 2 posts

most of us have been through multiple upgrades in sound hence may go overboard with many suggestions as it is an interessting journey in sound

please listen to speakers with your current amp and try to remember the sound then you could visit some forum members in your city ( which city are you ? ) to try and compare the sound. and then you can get a fix on what you want.

you can get a lot of joy from your setup even with your amp and one of eh speakers which we have discussed above.

BTW,there is nothing wrong going for used speakers as they usually the safest to buy used..and if you do plan to upgrade some time and sell it you do stand to lose very little later

G_S_Madhav schrieb:

J, How do I measure hz? How will I know Jagjit's voice at a low note is 150hz whereas Asha's at 5khz? You are getting too much into technical details and I am sure you will get tons of answers but that will only confuse you more. At the end , music will take a back seat and all those brands, specifications, technology, terminology, this hardware –that hardware, upgrade today-upgrade tomorrow, power cords, cables, this wire- that wire, wonder tweaks, miracle remedies , all will over power you Don’t get offended but it seems that knowingly / unknowingly you are entering into a vicious circle of audiophalia. (I can say this because, I too started on the similar lines and later became vicim of all this audiophalia, audionervosa, Upgraditis, Tweakomania, brand-o-jaundice) For your kind of music, valve amplification is more suitable that‘s why I suggested it to you in the first place (while keeping your budget in mind) but after looking at the direction you are heading to, I would now suggest : Forget all that and buy a decent pair of speakers within your budget and close the case. you will be mory happy and reamin happy for years to come.

Thank you Madhav.
Reson why I had those queries is I really want to know how I can differentiate those finer things.

Arj schrieb:

I concur with what GS madhav mentions. there is not end to this so go in the direction you were heading in in your 1st 2 posts most of us have been through multiple upgrades in sound hence may go overboard with many suggestions. please listen to speakers with your current amp and try to remember the sound then you could visit some forum members in your city ( which city are you ? ) to try and compare the sound. BTW,there is nothing wrong going for used speakers as they usually the safest to buy used..and if you do plan to upgrade some time and sell it you do stand to lose very little later

Arj,

I do agree with you that I am diverting from the main topic.

In that acse should I start a new topic inorder to get myself clarified in those technical details.

square_wave schrieb:

jayashree schrieb: square_wave schrieb: I think there was a great condition used acoustic portrait speaker going for around 30k. The MS 301 http://www.acousticportrait.com/ms301.html When it comes to quality, these are far beyond any of those entry level speakers you are considering right now. I remember Siva telling me that they are available still. Not sure now. You could ping siva on this forum by sending a PM. Only issue is that the Yamaha amp you are planning to use may need to be upgraded :L Thank you. If I upgrade my existing Yamaha amp which model should I go for?Please remember I am interested only in 2channel stereo amp with Phono In. Depends on your budget. Budget level Yamahas are very basic amplifiers and they gloss over much of the finer attributes of music reproduction. I have owned pioneers, kenwoods, sansuis, Yamahas etc.. in the distant past. Most of these mainstream (MNC) manufacturer’s entry/mid levels amps are pretty much useless. They have a few classic models but the Yamaha model you have is not one of that. Forgive me for being so blunt…. Nad ,Arcam, Marantz, Rotel, Cambridge Audio are decent as an entry into hifi sound. You could look at these brands if you don’t want to spend too much. Nad C352, Rotel RA06, Cambridge audio Azur 640c, Arcam diva A90 comes to mind as some decent entry level models. If you want something better, you should be looking at Plinius, Primare, Arcam FMJ series, Cyrus, Linn etc… All of the above are typical “ well known brands” and they cost a lot too. Much better sound can be attained for the same money if you go for smaller “under ground brands” like odyssey audio, Nuforce, Flying mole, Red wine audio etc…. If you are open to Indian brands, great sound can be got from Acoustic portrait, Cadence, Audire audio etc….. The single driver – full range speaker and tube amp from lyrita audio is another great indian option.

Thank you Square for your inputs.Now atleast I know where I stand and what upgradation should I look for quickly.

My best wishes…

But allow me to share a Quote by our forum member ‘KSPV” made many moons ago:

"My philosophy is fix a reasonable budget, buy reasonably good equipment within the budget, arrange the equipment scientifically in the listening room, and leave the rest of the magic to your CD-collection. Don't run after snake-oil acoustic remedies and outrageously expensive foreign brands."


Hope this helps.

Sorry to suggest something much higher than your budget, but the Amphion IonL at 76K should knock you out. Anybody wanting a demo can call or PM me.
Deaf

I might be coming in a bit late to this discussion but here go my $0.02 nonetheless (they don't have much value in today's market situation anyway, do they?) -

1. Unless you understand the science of accoustics, it would be better not to put technical restrictions like RMS value, sensitivity etc. on your choice. Let your ear guide you.

2. Your choice should be restricted by your electronics, musical taste, room setup and of course your budget.

3. Yamaha amps, to my ears, always sounded a bit bright and (dare I say) tinny. You may want to carry the amp to your auditions. One definite suggestion - stay away from Polk Audio, unless you want a teeth-jarring combination.

4. Don't let the sales guy's technobabble influence you. Just go with what sounds nice to your ears.

5. Once you have plonked in the money, be ready for some 'cognitive dissonance'...it's natural and happens to almost all of us. Just ignore it and enjoy your music.

6. You have a healthy budget for a decent pair of speakers. You could check out KEF iQ5 (Shahrukh's offer is worth checking out), Monitor Audio BR2, PSB Image T45, Quad 11/12L, Boston Acoustics, Mordant-Short (can't remember the models). These are only the names coming from the top of my head...there would be many more that fit the bill. Take your time to check 'em all and then put your money down.

Hope this helps!

square_wave schrieb:

Much better sound can be attained for the same money if you go for smaller “under ground brands” like odyssey audio, Nuforce, Flying mole, Red wine audio etc….

Good point!

Just wondering...can I check out Flying Mole or Red Wine somewhere in India? I heave heard Red Wine's iMod...interesting concept...

soulforged schrieb:

Just wondering...can I check out Flying Mole or Red Wine somewhere in India? I heave heard Red Wine's iMod...interesting concept...

Sridhar of Odessy Bnagalore does Red Wine Audio. He is also on this forum as 'Red wine'.

G_S_Madhav schrieb:

soulforged schrieb: Just wondering...can I check out Flying Mole or Red Wine somewhere in India? I heave heard Red Wine's iMod...interesting concept... Sridhar of Odessy Bnagalore does Red Wine Audio. He is also on this forum as 'Red wine'.

Sridhar has the Red Wine 30.2 integrated. These days he also carries the Asian heavyweights - Shindo Labs and Leben. I managed to listen to the Shindo Labs Aurieges pre in my setup and it was absolutely divine.

G_S_Madhav schrieb:

My best wishes… But allow me to share a Quote by our forum member ‘KSPV” made many moons ago: "My philosophy is fix a reasonable budget, buy reasonably good equipment within the budget, arrange the equipment scientifically in the listening room, and leave the rest of the magic to your CD-collection. Don't run after snake-oil acoustic remedies and outrageously expensive foreign brands." Hope this helps.

That is good advice from member KSPV.
However it would be much better to buy the best equipment for your budget. I believe that every price bracket has "good, better, best" gear. The key is to do your research & ascertain which pieces are good, which better & which best for your designated budget. Takes a lot of legwork & a lot of reading & a lot of trolling thru the archives. However it is worth every bit of effort 'cuz it prevents "upgraditis".
Every piece of gear has its limitations no matter what the price range. One should buy the gear with the clear understanding of those limitations & full acceptance of those limitations. That's the only way one will be comfortable with one's choice (otherwise one will find oneself defending one's purchase on the forums!).
Setup is key to coax the max out of any audio setup (which includes room treatments, electrical & mechanical isolation, speaker toe-in, speaker tilt-back if applicable, etc). However, if the gear has limitations, the setup can only do so much. In fact, an excellent setup with mediocre gear might be the worst thing one could do since every flaw in the system will be laid bare! So, if you understand the gear's limitations, it might be better to have a (slightly) sub-optimum setup so that you can derive pleasure w/ the gear you purchased rather than finding its faults each time you listen.
Again, your budget, your gear & your setup depend on what you really want to accomplish with your 2-ch system. A reference system? A bedroom system? A party music system? A 2-ch + HT system? A HT-only system? An alternate 2-ch to your main reference system? etc.
Just my 2 paisa worth.