TT under 30k

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Autor
Beitrag
abhi.pani
Inventar
#1 erstellt: 15. Jan 2009, 11:20
Friends,
I have been an avid fan of TT sound (for the lack of a better word). I have not been exposed to a lot of Turntables or systems with Turntables. But I have heard a few good ones (including Jeeves's LP12) and some average stuff from Technics. In ALL the cases I loved the sound. No matter what but they involve me lot more into music than the best of the CDPs I have heard. After some careful thought I have finally decided to aquire one. I have heard that TTs are not easy to maintain and so are LPs. Moreover upgrading in TT can get really expensive. Availability of LPs are again a major issue. Even after all the negative energy trying to divert me away from TT, I finally realized that the way it makes music is worth all the pain that it commands. So here I am trying to squeeze a decent TT for under 30k

I have very little idea about what to look for when buying a Turntable. I dont even have opportunities to listen to them in demo rooms as most of the demo rooms dont have TT in the setup. Most probably I have to buy blind .
I am not very inclined to buy a used TT as I am a newbie here and cannot run around trying to service it.
I dont have a phonostage in my Preamp so that has to be accommodated in the 30k

Brands that I hear good things about:
1. Project
2. Rega
3. Clearaudio

Please do add to the list.

I understand that there are Tables which come with inbuilt phonostage and some are without it.
In general how is the quality of the internal phonostage ? Is it worth taking a look at them ?

Which make and models should I be looking at ? Availability in India is crucial. Please do mention the dealers.
Are there any dealers in Bangalore who stock TTs ?

Please suggest.
Arj
Inventar
#2 erstellt: 15. Jan 2009, 11:31
Abhi, what are the LPs you plan to buy ?
abhi.pani
Inventar
#3 erstellt: 15. Jan 2009, 11:44

Arj schrieb:
Abhi, what are the LPs you plan to buy ? :D


All junk from Avenue road and some okay ones from Amazon .
Savyasaachi
Inventar
#4 erstellt: 16. Jan 2009, 03:21
The Rega P1 is an excellent candidate, so is the P3..best is the P25 if you can afford it.

Musichall MMF-5 is another option to consider.

Go for a separate phono stage...notably Viren's.


[Beitrag von Savyasaachi am 16. Jan 2009, 03:22 bearbeitet]
ani
Stammgast
#5 erstellt: 16. Jan 2009, 06:11
Unless you already have a good collection of LP's I dont think it is worth jumping into 'BUDGET' Vinyl world.

Reason
1. To come upto a reasonably CD quality you will have to spend a lot on TT+Arm+Cartridge+Phonostage. Budget systems are good for those who wants to start listening to old LP's handed over as family heirloom. If bitten by vinyl may God save him

2. Without a good Vinyl system you will never be doing justice to new LP's from Amazon. Some of them are very good pressings which needs suitable playback system.

3.Supply of Good quality LP's to the flea market has almost dried up, so investing on a good Vinyl system will force you to buy new LPs.

4. All the above points are not valid for a passionate Vinyl lover with sifficient budget.

The reason why I made this point is because I have gone through all this stages
Shahrukh
Inventar
#6 erstellt: 16. Jan 2009, 06:45
So what according to you is a good startup TT, Ani?
ani
Stammgast
#7 erstellt: 16. Jan 2009, 06:59
Shahrukh,
The point I would like to bring to notice is not regarding equipment it is the availabilty of software ie LP,s.

All the brands mentioned by previous posters make good entry level TTs. Project is a VFM brand and their RPM serious are very good solid plinth models.

Regards
Anil
Shahrukh
Inventar
#8 erstellt: 16. Jan 2009, 09:24
Yeah, I agree with you on the software part. Get into vinyl only if you have a huge stash of LPs. However, my query was more on your statement


to come upto a reasonably CD quality you will have to spend a lot on TT+Arm+Cartridge+Phonostage.


Was wondering what you'd reccomend in the <50k range.
G_S_Madhav
Stammgast
#9 erstellt: 16. Jan 2009, 10:08
Abhi,

It is not my intension to Rain on Your Parade but I once tried this(and burnt my fingures!) so couldn’t resist myself in sharing my expeiences with you. Please allow me and don't get offended.

What ANI is saying is 101% correct. Unless you already possess a sizable collection of good (well maintained) LPs don’t embark on this journey.

By all means one can build an entry level TT setup including a stand alone Phono stage for Rs 30K but things won’t end here, one needs good software to play on this rig!

In US and Europe finding pre-owned or even New Vinyl is rather easy as virtually every house hold used to have a good TT and some decent Vinyl collection and with little extra efforts even today it is possible to grab some portion of it. In India picture is totally different, even during those Golden Era of vinyl how many houses used to have a TT and LP collection to play on it? It was a luxury item in those days and there wasn’t any disposable income for such hobbies when 95% population was struggling to meet both ends. All potentail Indian Kabariwalas are already captured by some big shot Audiophiles who started yeares earlier. Atleast in the initial stages (till you build a rappo with those Kabariwalas) what you will be offered all JUNK and JUNK and JUNK only.

(I can confidently tell you this based on my experiences in collecting Antiques, which is my another hobby)

If you are banking on some Chor Bazar or Kadariwala then you are making a false assumption. Most of LPs sourced from flea markets and kabariwalas are worn out , warped and practically unusable. Once in a blue moon, one may find a good one but then its effective cost (after adding money spent on dozens and dozens of crappy LPs) is exorbitant.

AMAZON sounds Okay but did you check the prices, shipping charges etc? For example a pre-owned ‘Kind Of Blue’ LP is being quoted for USD40 + shipping! Many other Jazz titles (for example) are in the range of USD 19 + shipping. Amazon sells new releases of LP but those LPs are cut using Digital Masters so ,,, you know what to expect from then.

We all Non Vinyl public keep on listening to the ‘Magic of Vinyl’, ‘Vinyl is this and Vinyl is that’ all the time but that in most cases applies to very high end setups playing well pressed, well maintained LPs (those are cut during the Golden Era of Vinyl). Further those passionate Vinyl guys spend considerable amount of time in keeping their set-up and software in that MINT condition. Vinyl is a big Pain both in physical as well as financial terms.

Assume that today you put some 30K on hardware then by a stoke of a luck collected some 50-100 LP by putting another 10-20 K (I am uderestimating here), sounds quite budget friendly but in no way it will give the performance people are talking about. All those worn out LPs with tons of static, pops and crackles will irritate you, you won’t even get a very faint idea of that Vinyl magic people are ready to die for.

…………Then you start Upgrading, first from the basic Table to something Audiophile , then comes the Tone Arm then Cartridge then the Phono stage (what about that Tube Based Phono stage ?) then cables and tons of accessories to choose from , there is even a Audiophile Dust cover in the market at some insane price, No stopping here too , then you must have a Record cleaning machine, and not to forget that Record cleaning fluid (again there are Audiophile Record Cleaning Fluids in the market.) And yes, don't forget that special Record Cleaning Brush and it must be Audiophile grade ! Then you bring in dedicated rack for your set up!

Oh! silly me, I totally forgot , you need to buy those special Vinyl sleeves man , to keep LPS free from static (Just Rs 1000 / sleeve , expensive but you want your LPs to be static free all the time) . Then you need storage space for you ever growing collection of LPs!

And despite of all this you still listen to CDs, you can’t discard them because certain titles are just not available in Vinyl .........

and one day you accept the truth... you can’t go any further on this Vinyl path , now the problem takes a totally unprecedented turn. by that time Vinyl V/s CD sound is firmly rooted in you mind and you start one more Upgrade mission, this time you are rather ambitious to get component that can deliver Vinyl sound from a CD format ………………..do I need to continue any further?

Please don't get offended but consider all these possibilities , talk to people who are deep in this Vinyl business and also check why many of them are trying to convert their Vinyl music into Digital.

I love Vinyl and so the Mercedes but unfortunately both are not affordable to me.

I wish you luck.
ani
Stammgast
#10 erstellt: 16. Jan 2009, 10:12
Shahrukh,
You can check RPM6+Ortophone Rondo Red+ TubeBox SE all are from PRoject stable and should be around 50k plus.

Some of the Clearaudio players are made by Project.
square_wave
Inventar
#11 erstellt: 16. Jan 2009, 10:57
Dear Madhav,
You have painted a very grim picture for vinyl.
But this is a reality only if you have very ambitious plans with your TT rig.
If you just want to listen to an occasional vinyl while maintaining the cd-playback system as your main thing, it is not such a pain as you envision. I know a few people who have done this.
A casual TT rig is always a romantic venture.
G_S_Madhav
Stammgast
#12 erstellt: 16. Jan 2009, 11:23
Vinny, your observation is correct. My reply did sound like that but my intension was not really to scare anybody but to highlight certain facts such as:

1>That ‘Vinyl magic’ people talk about is just not possible with 30-50K investment, it takes lots of expenditure and efforts to feel that magic.
2>Getting software (Vinyl) and further maintaining it , is way difficult and expensive.
3>Vinyl thing needs much more dedication and commitment as compared to other Digital Media.

I just tried to show the Dark Side Of the Moon that’s all, by the way Abhi, don’t forget to add that ‘Dark Side Of The Moon’ 30th Anniversary pressing LP.

With 30-50K in hand , I will still remain in Digital format rather than getting a raw deal in Vinyl. I would better invest in good XRCD24 / SACDs or in decent High Resolution downloads.


[Beitrag von G_S_Madhav am 16. Jan 2009, 11:27 bearbeitet]
abhi.pani
Inventar
#13 erstellt: 16. Jan 2009, 11:46
Well, I dont know if I like this thread or not.. .
But okay, I dont dislike it as well.
I started off asking suggestions for "TT under 30k" and but all I am getting is "Forget TT" .

Ok no issues, I am ready to take the discussion further from here. To start with, a question GS Madhav Bhai:

You said:

Assume that today you put some 30K on hardware then by a stoke of a luck collected some 50-100 LP by putting another 10-20 K (I am uderestimating here), sounds quite budget friendly but in no way it will give the performance people are talking about. All those worn out LPs with tons of static, pops and crackles will irritate you, you won’t even get a very faint idea of that Vinyl magic people are ready to die for.

…………Then you start Upgrading, first from the basic Table to something Audiophile , then comes the Tone Arm then Cartridge then the Phono stage (what about that Tube Based Phono stage ?) then cables and tons of accessories to choose from , there is even a Audiophile Dust cover in the market at some insane price, No stopping here too , then you must have a Record cleaning machine, and not to forget that Record cleaning fluid (again there are Audiophile Record Cleaning Fluids in the market.) And yes, don't forget that special Record Cleaning Brush and it must be Audiophile grade ! Then you bring in dedicated rack for your set up!


Madhav, if you look at the first and second paragraph of this quote, in the first para you have tried to say that bad LPs sound bad. To me the solution to this is buying good LPs from sources which are well known. I wouldnt upgrade my TT at all (as mentioned by you in the second para) if I dont have good LPs in the first place. Porsche cannot run on Kerosene you see.. !!!
And if at all I am lucky enough to collect good LPs then upgrading makes sense (i.e if I have money ).
Kabadi cannot be ruled out but thats only a secondary medium and I wouldnt take it very seriously.


Now, coming back to the topic how difficult it is to get the magic of LPs from a system...
Let me start by saying that recently I heard a 10 year old 7k worth Technics TT (super entry level ) which had everything stock except a Shure cartridge. It was connected through a Plinius Phonostage (inbuilt within the Integrated amp). I listened to one average maintained LP (Dire straits Communique) which had its own share of static, pops, clicks...I am 1000% sure that this setup wouldnt be doing even 25% of what a good Vinyl rig should do. It would be significantly lacking in detail compared to a 100k CDP or TT setup. Noise was obvious because the LP itself was not in great shape. All said and done, throughout the session I listened to this system, I just couldnt concentrate on anything apart from Music. I was ready to forgive the clicks and pops, imaging and soundstaging was nowhere in my mind (which I am very particular about in my home rig), Loss of detail was something that I could not analyze even though I knew it would be happening. If thats not magic then what is it ???
Its only then I slowly realized that it need not be an expensive rig to enjoy LP.

As for all the problems that are being discussed here. I agree with most of them:
1. Availability of LP is scarce. Either Kabadi or Amazon (either crap or expensive)

2. Maintaining LP is difficult (storage, cleaning, brushing, bathing...etc)

3. It would still have statics, clicks and pops which may irritate you

4. Upgradation is obvious and expensive.

5. Comparison with CDs is obvious and would leave you thinking all the time.

6. ETC ETC ETC...

Toh matlab kya karen, LP bina suney hi duniya chhod dein ???
I mean its the most hi-rez and musical format ever produced in the world of Audio. There is nothing even close to it (at least for me). Yes, it does have its own share of problems and overheads. Its you who have to choose if those overheads are worth the end result. To me it is definitely worth trying given my sweet experiences with the sound it generates and music it makes.

To give an analogy, even being an audiophile has its own overheads which an average music listener wouldnt be bothering to take but audiophiles take it everyday and do it with passion because they love every aspect of it (including discussions like these)...for others its not worth it but for us there is nothing like it..
G_S_Madhav
Stammgast
#14 erstellt: 16. Jan 2009, 12:00
Abhi,

Your point/s taken. I once again repeat: my intension was not really to scare you.

I never said Vinyl is bad, in my opinion it is still the best available format for Music reproduction.

I narrated my experiencs and shared some information which is I think the very pupose of this forum's existance.

Now if you are Okay with the expeiences you had during that Vinyl test drive you mentioned then by all means go ahead with plan, you have a budget and inclinations then who is going to stop you.
Shahrukh
Inventar
#15 erstellt: 16. Jan 2009, 12:08

G_S_Madhav schrieb:
VThat ‘Vinyl magic’ people talk about is just not possible with 30-50K investment, it takes lots of expenditure and efforts to feel that magic.


Er... if I may disagree. The magic is present at this budget. It just keeps getting better with a better analogue rig.

Has anyone owned the entry-level Debuts etc? How would you describe them? How would u compare it to similarly priced CDPs? Your opinions would be welcome here.
bombaywalla
Stammgast
#16 erstellt: 16. Jan 2009, 20:57

G_S_Madhav schrieb:
Abhi,

It is not my intension to Rain on Your Parade but I once tried this(and burnt my fingures!) so couldn’t resist myself in sharing my expeiences with you. Please allow me and don't get offended.

What ANI is saying is 101% correct. Unless you already possess a sizable collection of good (well maintained) LPs don’t embark on this journey.

By all means one can build an entry level TT setup including a stand alone Phono stage for Rs 30K but things won’t end here, one needs good software to play on this rig!

In US and Europe finding pre-owned or even New Vinyl is rather easy as virtually every house hold used to have a good TT and some decent Vinyl collection and with little extra efforts even today it is possible to grab some portion of it. In India picture is totally different, even during those Golden Era of vinyl how many houses used to have a TT and LP collection to play on it? It was a luxury item in those days and there wasn’t any disposable income for such hobbies when 95% population was struggling to meet both ends. All potentail Indian Kabariwalas are already captured by some big shot Audiophiles who started yeares earlier. Atleast in the initial stages (till you build a rappo with those Kabariwalas) what you will be offered all JUNK and JUNK and JUNK only.

(I can confidently tell you this based on my experiences in collecting Antiques, which is my another hobby)

If you are banking on some Chor Bazar or Kadariwala then you are making a false assumption. Most of LPs sourced from flea markets and kabariwalas are worn out , warped and practically unusable. Once in a blue moon, one may find a good one but then its effective cost (after adding money spent on dozens and dozens of crappy LPs) is exorbitant.

AMAZON sounds Okay but did you check the prices, shipping charges etc? For example a pre-owned ‘Kind Of Blue’ LP is being quoted for USD40 + shipping! Many other Jazz titles (for example) are in the range of USD 19 + shipping. Amazon sells new releases of LP but those LPs are cut using Digital Masters so ,,, you know what to expect from then.

We all Non Vinyl public keep on listening to the ‘Magic of Vinyl’, ‘Vinyl is this and Vinyl is that’ all the time but that in most cases applies to very high end setups playing well pressed, well maintained LPs (those are cut during the Golden Era of Vinyl). Further those passionate Vinyl guys spend considerable amount of time in keeping their set-up and software in that MINT condition. Vinyl is a big Pain both in physical as well as financial terms.

Assume that today you put some 30K on hardware then by a stoke of a luck collected some 50-100 LP by putting another 10-20 K (I am uderestimating here), sounds quite budget friendly but in no way it will give the performance people are talking about. All those worn out LPs with tons of static, pops and crackles will irritate you, you won’t even get a very faint idea of that Vinyl magic people are ready to die for.

…………Then you start Upgrading, first from the basic Table to something Audiophile , then comes the Tone Arm then Cartridge then the Phono stage (what about that Tube Based Phono stage ?) then cables and tons of accessories to choose from , there is even a Audiophile Dust cover in the market at some insane price, No stopping here too , then you must have a Record cleaning machine, and not to forget that Record cleaning fluid (again there are Audiophile Record Cleaning Fluids in the market.) And yes, don't forget that special Record Cleaning Brush and it must be Audiophile grade ! Then you bring in dedicated rack for your set up!

Oh! silly me, I totally forgot , you need to buy those special Vinyl sleeves man , to keep LPS free from static (Just Rs 1000 / sleeve , expensive but you want your LPs to be static free all the time) . Then you need storage space for you ever growing collection of LPs!

And despite of all this you still listen to CDs, you can’t discard them because certain titles are just not available in Vinyl .........

and one day you accept the truth... you can’t go any further on this Vinyl path , now the problem takes a totally unprecedented turn. by that time Vinyl V/s CD sound is firmly rooted in you mind and you start one more Upgrade mission, this time you are rather ambitious to get component that can deliver Vinyl sound from a CD format ………………..do I need to continue any further?

Please don't get offended but consider all these possibilities , talk to people who are deep in this Vinyl business and also check why many of them are trying to convert their Vinyl music into Digital.

I love Vinyl and so the Mercedes but unfortunately both are not affordable to me.

I wish you luck.



really nice one Madhav!!
the only thing missing here was the link to that YouTube "Greek Audiophile" video!!

Anyway, Madhav you have made a very good point in the perils of being a vinyl addict. It is tedious & even anal but the payoff is great depending on one's mindset towards vinyl. This is a big thing - the mindset.
bombaywalla
Stammgast
#17 erstellt: 16. Jan 2009, 21:22

abhi.pani schrieb:
Well, I dont know if I like this thread or not.. .
But okay, I dont dislike it as well.
I started off asking suggestions for "TT under 30k" and but all I am getting is "Forget TT" .

Ok no issues, I am ready to take the discussion further from here. To start with, a question GS Madhav Bhai:

You said:

Assume that today you put some 30K on hardware then by a stoke of a luck collected some 50-100 LP by putting another 10-20 K (I am uderestimating here), sounds quite budget friendly but in no way it will give the performance people are talking about. All those worn out LPs with tons of static, pops and crackles will irritate you, you won’t even get a very faint idea of that Vinyl magic people are ready to die for.

…………Then you start Upgrading, first from the basic Table to something Audiophile , then comes the Tone Arm then Cartridge then the Phono stage (what about that Tube Based Phono stage ?) then cables and tons of accessories to choose from , there is even a Audiophile Dust cover in the market at some insane price, No stopping here too , then you must have a Record cleaning machine, and not to forget that Record cleaning fluid (again there are Audiophile Record Cleaning Fluids in the market.) And yes, don't forget that special Record Cleaning Brush and it must be Audiophile grade ! Then you bring in dedicated rack for your set up!


Madhav, if you look at the first and second paragraph of this quote, in the first para you have tried to say that bad LPs sound bad. To me the solution to this is buying good LPs from sources which are well known. I wouldnt upgrade my TT at all (as mentioned by you in the second para) if I dont have good LPs in the first place. Porsche cannot run on Kerosene you see.. !!!
And if at all I am lucky enough to collect good LPs then upgrading makes sense (i.e if I have money ).
Kabadi cannot be ruled out but thats only a secondary medium and I wouldnt take it very seriously.


Now, coming back to the topic how difficult it is to get the magic of LPs from a system...
Let me start by saying that recently I heard a 10 year old 7k worth Technics TT (super entry level ) which had everything stock except a Shure cartridge. It was connected through a Plinius Phonostage (inbuilt within the Integrated amp). I listened to one average maintained LP (Dire straits Communique) which had its own share of static, pops, clicks...I am 1000% sure that this setup wouldnt be doing even 25% of what a good Vinyl rig should do. It would be significantly lacking in detail compared to a 100k CDP or TT setup. Noise was obvious because the LP itself was not in great shape. All said and done, throughout the session I listened to this system, I just couldnt concentrate on anything apart from Music. I was ready to forgive the clicks and pops, imaging and soundstaging was nowhere in my mind (which I am very particular about in my home rig), Loss of detail was something that I could not analyze even though I knew it would be happening. If thats not magic then what is it ???
Its only then I slowly realized that it need not be an expensive rig to enjoy LP.

As for all the problems that are being discussed here. I agree with most of them:
1. Availability of LP is scarce. Either Kabadi or Amazon (either crap or expensive)

2. Maintaining LP is difficult (storage, cleaning, brushing, bathing...etc)

3. It would still have statics, clicks and pops which may irritate you

4. Upgradation is obvious and expensive.

5. Comparison with CDs is obvious and would leave you thinking all the time.

6. ETC ETC ETC...

Toh matlab kya karen, LP bina suney hi duniya chhod dein ???
I mean its the most hi-rez and musical format ever produced in the world of Audio. There is nothing even close to it (at least for me). Yes, it does have its own share of problems and overheads. Its you who have to choose if those overheads are worth the end result. To me it is definitely worth trying given my sweet experiences with the sound it generates and music it makes.

To give an analogy, even being an audiophile has its own overheads which an average music listener wouldnt be bothering to take but audiophiles take it everyday and do it with passion because they love every aspect of it (including discussions like these)...for others its not worth it but for us there is nothing like it.. :prost



well, Abhi, you HAVE been duly warned! But it is good to see that you are resolute on getting into vinyl. From your posts it seems that you know of & understand the perils of getting into vinyl. Thus, I say "go for it"!!



abhi.pani schrieb:

Porsche cannot run on Kerosene you see.. !!!


well, don't bet on it! These days w/ the auto industry fiddling w/ alternative fuels you might have Porsches running on piss in the near future!!
BTW, jet fuel JP4, if you have smelt it at the airport, is heavily refined kerosene. It is used to power a mode of transportation that is fater than a Porsche at top speed. I think that, if there's enough demand, Porsche could mod its engine to accept jet fuel.
Digression! let's stick to "beating Abhi up for even thinking of going into vinyl"!!
(I bet all the vinyl lovers in BLR, DEL & BOM are scurrying to their kabbadiwallas before Abhi gets there!! LOL!))
Arj
Inventar
#18 erstellt: 17. Jan 2009, 07:45
abhi, i would say go for it !

although i agree word for word with what GSMadhav has so clearely vented (definitely from experience) the only way of getting the "Keeda" out is by trying it out.
if it turns out you dont like it you can always get rid of it and gain the experience and the peace of mind of having tried it out.
If you do love it you again get the peace of mind of getting what you wanted anyway.images/smilies/insane.gif


I hope you are budgeting for a good phono as well. another issue is Isolation.. a Sandbox might be the most practical.
particleman
Stammgast
#19 erstellt: 17. Jan 2009, 08:39
Have considered this (very) briefly from time to time. Pro-ject Debut III without phono is about 20k I believe.
http://www.novaudio.com/project.html

Have not found any (official) Rega dealers.

Denon seems to have some ultra-low-end players for a song:
http://www.profx.com/denon_turntable.asp

I am currently in the not-considering-it phase because I found the LPs themselves to be both rare and expensive. More importantly ignorance of the medium. I would not know what to look for while buying the LP or about setting up the TT - the business of the arm, cartridge, counterweights, etc is foreign territory to me. Can't teach an old dog new tricks.
G_S_Madhav
Stammgast
#20 erstellt: 17. Jan 2009, 11:05

particleman schrieb:
. Can't teach an old dog new tricks. :(


I rather put this as: 'The trick is quite OLD but we dogs are new to it!


[Beitrag von G_S_Madhav am 17. Jan 2009, 11:05 bearbeitet]
G_S_Madhav
Stammgast
#21 erstellt: 17. Jan 2009, 11:35

Arj schrieb:
I hope you are budgeting for a good phono as well. another issue is Isolation.. a Sandbox might be the most practical.


Hi Arj, what is this man? Abhi wants to start with something very simple, just wanted to get his feet wet. Don't install any 'Upgrade Keeda' right now in his head ..... ...

Just kidding!
Arj
Inventar
#22 erstellt: 17. Jan 2009, 13:12

G_S_Madhav schrieb:


Hi Arj, what is this man? Abhi wants to start with something very simple, just wanted to get his feet wet. Don't install any 'Upgrade Keeda' right now in his head ..... ...

Just kidding!


hey I have not mentioned about the voltage/speed regulator and the LP cleaning machine yet ..also a rack to store LPs..they need more care than cds...wait what about the bubble level to ensure the turntable is level.

on a serious note, from what i know Abhis Pre does not have a phono in hence the above.
Suche:
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