Advise for speaker selection

If you're considering Wharfedale Diamonds, wait till October 1st and check out the Diamond 9 Series, which is about to be released.

The new Diamond 9.5 and 9.6 look very nice and from what I understand, they are a big improvement over the previous Diamond Series....sound-wise.

As for pricing, I'm not sure how much more they will be, compared to the Diamond 8.

It's at least worth auditioning.

yep TJmv3 is right....wait for the product.

To be honest if you are going to buy bookshelves along with stands then go for a 2 way floorstander.

The Q1 will give you bass upto 50 hz and so will the 8.2 diamonds.
Boston acoustics makes very decently priced bookshelves and floors. the CR series is the entry level affordable stuff.

Manek.

TjMV3 and Manek, Thanks for the inputs. Regarding Manek’s suggestion about speaker stands, I will not be using stands and the speakers will be placed on a shelf (with 1-2 feet for space behind).

The system will also be connected to my TV/DVD player and my dilemma arises due to this. Whether to opt for speakers like the Kef Q1 that reach down to 50 Hz. Alternatively, go for less costly speakers like the Diamond 8.1s along with a subwoofer (100 watts, 8”) which can extend the bass to about 35 Hz – for movies. Will the second option mean a significant compromise on audio quality that would otherwise be available with the Q1s (or equivalents).

Sanjay

to be honest, I do like the sound of the wharfedale 8.2's. Decent bass and clarity. You could switch on the sub for the movies only.

My friend I did a comparo between the wharfedale 8.2 and KEF Q1. he chose the wharfedale 8.2

Manek.

Manek, great to have your opinion. I guess I will go along with it. Regarding subwoofer, I could only shortlist the Sonodyne (RoaRR G22) at the price point I am looking at (Rs 15 K). Are there any other that I can consider?

Sanjay

here is what I would do, I would select the speakers which has a good sub to partner with. If I were buying the wharfedales, I would first look for a wharfedale sub and then if it did not sound good look for others. I do believe the sonodyne roarr subs are very good value for money and they do a decent job as well, at least thats what they write in AV max.

Sanjay,

Just another idea would be to take a look at the Bose 301 Series V, which has been reviewed in the Sep 04 AV Max. The speakers sound pretty good in the Bose Showroom and I think they would give other bookshelves a run for the money.

Cheers

Hi Sanjay !

More the choices more the confusion !!

Please consider the fact that you will actually use your main speakers for listening to pure music most of the time. The frills of the surround speakers & subs get to be enjoyed less often (remember real 5.1 or better encoding is avaiable only on DVDs). So spend more thought & money in selecting the main speakers.

High end speakers with good bass must be considered (without getting influenced by the glamour value of sub-woofers).

I have KEF Coda 90 - reasonably good!

Well, those were MY thoughts ...

Sanjay

Thanks for the responses.
Regarding the Bose speakers, I have read the review in AVMax which seems to suggest that the speaker positioning and room interaction is much more critical for these speakers than is the case for other speakers. Given this, it may be difficult to judge how they will sound in actual conditions as against the showroom.

About Sanjay's point, this is exactly my dilemma. Whether a higher end speaker offers a much better audio in value for money terms. I am thinking of going along with Manek's suggestiom.

I saw an ad in the newspaper that there will be an AV exhibition in Mumbai in the first week of November where most leading audio equipment brands will be exhibited. I guess this will give me an oppotunity to look at most of the options at one place.

Sanjay

sajay i have listened to many bookshelves including coda 70 , mission 70, def tech studio monitor 350. I felf def tech had the best sound among all. coda felt lifeless, mission had lot of compression especially when you start to crank it up. def tech had Very open and big sound, doest feel you listening from such a small speaker.
Give it a listen i think it is around 24000. \another speaker would be dynaudio audience 52 which is around 35000 but is supposed to be very power hungry. I have not listened to the dynaudio since in delhi no dealer seems to be carrying it. Regarding the sub woofer rel subs start from 29000 I think its called rel quake.

IMHO deftechs have a great Bass but not very strong Midrange..hence more suited for HT
Regarding REL, for Audio the oomph is on the S series (Strata/Storm..) rahter than the Q series. IN the Q series, the Q150 is perhaps the best bet. Quake is better as a pair in an average size room.

The best part abouts Rels is their ease of integration with just about any speaker !

Thanks for the suggestions. Regarding REL, at 29K I am afraid these are well outside my budget.

One thought that occurs to me is the wide range of options available for speakers as against the amplifier. There seems to be a general consensus that the NAD320BEE is the most suitable entry level/ budget amp. Can there be a similar consensus for entry level/ budget speakers (preferably book shelf speakers).

Sanjay

The reason nad 320bee in india is the standard entry level amp is that others of the same class are not available here at the same price. Maybe cambridge audio would now take the fight to nad.

In other countries nad 320bee may have many other competitors for its price range but it does very well there too.

Speakers are a different lot. There are many standard entry level speakers around like Kef, PSB, Wharfedale, quad, dynaudio, def tech etc but it all boils down to individual tastes.

Manek, any particular reason why the other amp brands have not entered India?

The other thought that occured to me, considering my budget constraints, is whether to look for second hand/ used equipment. Is there anyone in Mumbai who deals in good quality used audio equipment and would this be a good bet?

Sanjay

There is busines done on used stuff but your dealer you buy stuff from will be able to source it for you better.

BTW there are a lot of other entry level amps in India but none as good as the nad 320bee in its price.

Harmon kardon HK-670 seems to be the other entry level amp and a bit more powerfull but not as clean sounding....NAD to my mind have cracked the formula for that price range. Marantz is coming in a big way with Sharda motors as distributor. Denon is already in. Other brands like Oknyo are around as well but not as good. Cambridge as mentioned earlier....Roksan, Cayin, Rega, Audio Analogue etc etc may be got on the second hand market.

Manek.

After seeing the suggestions regarding floorstanders, I tried rearranging my room to see if I could make some space for them. The best I could manage was a recess for each speaker that is about 9 inches wide and 20 inches deep. The top of the recess is open to the ceiling while the sides are bounded by wood panels (about 7 feet high) forming part of other furniture with the rear being the room wall. The speakers would be about 7 feet apart in the same line and the speakers can be positioned so that the front of the speakers are slightly projecting out of the recess and facing the room. So, the speakers will be facing the full room area with only the speaker cabinet sides being close to the recess walls.

As most floorstanders are about 8 inches wide, it should be possible to fit them into this space. There would be a gap of about ½ inch on the sides and about 10 inches at the rear to the wall. As the gap to the rear wall is not much, speakers with front ports would be required.

The main issue is whether placing floorstanders in this kind of recessed place will affect the audio quality. Is it necessary for the speakers to have more open area adjacent to the sides of the speaker cabinet?

Any speaker rerquires space round it. In your case make sure you purchase a front ported floorstander/bookshelf. Rear ported ones are a no no as you dont have space.

If your budget is still 25k, then there are a few on offer. Mission, wharfedale, space, lithos, acoustic portrait(corrson), boston acoustics, quad(11L bookshelf), PSB, Dali 3003(reviewed in av max this month), jamo, kef, bose, pulz, etc etc etc.

Manek.

Hi Sanjay,

More space between the floorstanders and side-walls will definitely avoid the irritating bass boom.

Aniruddha.

you definitely need space on the sides as well as behind. anything less than 1 m and the ear would not be able to make out the differece between reflected and direct sound and hence you may experienec some sort opf a BOOM either in the low freq or the midrange depending on the size opf the room and the tuning of the speaker port.

In case of constraints,
1. Damp the corner with some small pillows (ie the ones where side walls, Back wall & ceiling
2. Keep some kind of Wood /Cloth kind of absorbent surface on the back wall between the speakers , on the back wall. arohd 2 feet by 5 feet

3. In case your soeakers are toed in a wall carpet, Paiting etc (No Glass) at the point of primary reflection eg the point on the left wall where the right speaker acoustics would reflect
4. In case the room is small, some sort of potted plants on the wall corner facing the speaker fronts woulod be useful.

now if you clap in the room at any point you should not be hearing any sort of Echo...

Just make sure you do it while the wife is out...my wife was sure that I had gone crazy !!!

Anyway, you can learn more about it Here

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/roomacoustics/index.php

Useful links, Arj, thanks a lot.

Aniruddha.

yes....Arj pointed out something very important....the clap test.....many room issues can be solved by the simply devised clap test. Take this seriously guys.

Thanks for the suggestions. I checked out the link given by Arj and it is quite informative. But from some of the responses, I get the impression that I have not put across my query clearly. Some suggestions refer to the spacing between the speaker and the side wall. I would like to clarify that there would be sufficient space between the speaker and the side wall. Perhaps a more suitable illustration of my question would be whether a speaker can be place inside a cabinet (that is only slightly larger than the speaker and open at the rear) with just the front of the speaker projecting slightly out of the cabinet. Will this alter the audio characteristics of the speaker, other things being the same?

Sanjay

HI Sanjay, not sure if I get the point..

But are you planning to keep the speakers in an Entertainment centre ?

The important points for a speaker are
1. Space behind them
2. Space between them
3. Space in front of them
4. Their coupling to the floor ie via spikes or being completely decoupled to ensure that external vibrations do not trouble it as well as its own vibrations are damped

In case you are just keeping a casing which does not affect any of the above it should be OK...but if it is an entertaintment center then the space behind it would be affected and the reflections off the rear wall would not reach the ears and that could affect 3D imaging..in case you are into that

BTW are u using Bookshelf speakers ?

Hi Arj

I am in the process of deciding between bookshelves (with a spearate subwoofer) and floorstanders. Earlier I was thinking of the first option. But after reading some of the good suggestions here, I am trying to see if floorstanders can be accommodated in the room.

The floorstanders can be placed on either side of a wall unit that is about 6 feet tall and 7 feet wide and 20 inches deep. The main problem is with the proposed location of the right speaker. This has to be kept close to the wall unit which being 6 feet high, will form some kind of a wall on that side. On the other side of the speaker, the room's rear wall protrudes into the room by about 18 inches thereby resulting in the speaker being kept in some kind of a recess/ niche. Due to this layout, the speaker will be very close to the walls of this niche (less than 1 inch gap at the side and 8 inch at the rear). But the front of the speaker will be in line with wall unit and therefore no immediate obstruction/side walls in front of the speaker.

Will this layout affect the speaker sound.

Sanjay

Actually I am not fully in agreement about floorstanders being better. In the end it depends on the size of the room and type of music.
in a 10ft by 10 ft kiind of room, a good Bookshelf is a very good choice while a floorstander may require the room to be treated and damped well to avoid Boom.

Also Bookshelves usually have a much better midrange as well as tighter imaging.

But a subwoofer is a very different choice. Musical subwoofers are very expensive (1000 USD+). the other are more of single tone Boom Boxes rather than ones with good low freq response..

But the Musical subwoofers are amazing. I had demoed a REL Strata with my floorstanders..the results were amazing with a crossover at 40 Hz..the low freq sounds especially in a church organ were unbelievable..but it costs more than 1100 USD hence..

room size is definately the main criterion. Arj is right about REL sub but dont get that kind of sub on a budget. The one note bass sub's are available dime a dozen. I remember hearing a Definitive tech sub some time ago, forgotten which model but was really nice.

Manek.

HI Manek,
those could be the Supercube 1 or 11. pretty musical sub with a good SPL level for HT as well. one of the more musical subs wby Deftech. looks good too !

I think it cost around 800 USD +

cheers

yes yes I think it was the supercube, maybe I'm wrong.....I was told that it was a passive radiator design....

And to be honest the bass notes really were very distinct.

Manek.

Hi

What would good options for floorstanders:
Essential : Only Front firing port, good bass extension say upto 35-40 Hz. Budget :Rs. 25K

Sanjay

wharfedale 8.3/8.4
someone on this forum bought space floorstanders and said they were good.

sonodyne sonus towers
Pro FX towers
boston acoustics CR towers
Mission towers

adding on from maneks commetns, Mission may work best for you as they can usually be placed closer to walls.
Do also try the Dynaudio 42/52 bookshelves..they may surprise you with their Bass

Hi Sanjay,

I would like to point your attention to one of the basic requirments needed for a speaker to sound at its best. " Speakers need space to all around them and there should be NOTHING in between". I know that we all have to be practical but try your best you will be rewarded. A big wall unit the one you are having smack in the middle of the speaker will spoil the imaging almost to zero level. You can try this out by placing your speaker at least 1m away from the side and front walls (wall behind speakers) and about 2m spacing between speakers with nothing in between, toe them in slightly towards your listening char so that reflections from the side wall can be minimised and center imaging strengthened. I am sure even the cheapest speaker will have a good center image and some depth.

Bookshelf speakers are not to be placed on a shelf !! they have to be kept on good rigid stands. If you need quality sound for your Rs 25k a bookshelf will be better compared to a floorstander for the same money. If you want quantity (wider freq responce mainly low freq) at lower quality, a floorstander will serve you better.

Thanks for all the inputs. I am in the process of shortlisting my choices before taking a final decision.

One aspect that was mentioned to me (not here) was regarding the servicing/ spares of NAD amplifiers. I saw in the NAD website that there is no direct warranty from them. It is the responsibility of the local distributor, which in the case of India is listed as LaKozy Impex.

Are there any issues here? What are the chances of some thing going wrong and in such a case will the local distributor be in a position to repair (at reasonable rates)? Anyone had any actual experience?

Sanjay

hi
i bought a set of space floorstandings from Music Ranch at BGLR.
Beleive me they are good..much better than what sonodyne would give for the same buck....this after fancing sonodyne sonus 2605 for almost half a year..yes they go down to 35~40 hz zone and definitely give very good clarity...and i experimented with their stat sub for a weekend and beleive me they were good...only after much persuasion did i give them up for the foolstanders that i have now...
audition them..

Warranty support in India is left at the mercy of who you buy it from. All the imported brands have the same support pitfalls. It all depends on the dealer you pick your equipment from.

If you purchase from an Indian company then there is some hope for support from the company of manufacture but sometimes not even then.

Customer Service/Support is not a priority in this country my friend ! Thats the truth.

Manek.

Hi Manek

Any idea on what is the approx failure/ defect rate for NAD (1 in 100??)? Have you heard of anyone who faced problems here?

Sanjay

Nope I dont know of anyone using 320bee having an issue. I read a couple of posts on the asylum about people in the US who had problems but then one cant have a 100% hit rate.

manek.

Agree with Manek.
In fact you could search the Amp-Preamp section of www.audioasylum.com for comments

on a different note, Dont think u should using probability theory while buying anything..especially in audio ! no matter what u buy there is a chance of failure and the warranty shouyld be taken care of by the dealer.

If the dealer refuses to give you warranty you should not be buying that anyway ! as in India it is difficult to get people whoare competent to repair audio .