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AT-LP120 oder. ?

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Autor
Beitrag
mlinaricus
Neuling
#1 erstellt: 03. Jan 2013, 15:19
i want to buy some cheaper but good plattenspieler like Audio Technica AT-LP120 because for Technics 1210 mk2 i really don’t have money in some reasonable period.

1.What do u think about this device? Should i choose something else in same budget range?

2. What needle do you recommend? Denon DL-110, Ortofon 2M Red, Audio Technica AT 120E, Shure M97xE or something else?

3.What device you recommend for connecting on av receiver? I would like some quality device and up to 100e, do u think that’s waste of money for plattenspieler like that?

Frohes neues Jahr und alles gute.
akem
Inventar
#2 erstellt: 03. Jan 2013, 18:57
I don't know the turntable but I've just looked it up. It makes a reasonably good impression.
What I wanted to remark is, that at least for the beginning you won't need a preamp. The AT has one already built in. So why not try that one first? If it sounds bad you can always look out for a better one...

Regards
Andreas
mlinaricus
Neuling
#3 erstellt: 04. Jan 2013, 08:58
yes, plattenspieler looks pretty decent for that budget. on few reviews i read that his amp is not so good and that it deforms the sound, thats why i wanted to buy extra one.
akem
Inventar
#4 erstellt: 04. Jan 2013, 11:34
One thing I've learnt in over 25 years of hifi-practise: never trust a review...
So I would try the internal amplifier first. And when you are used to its sound then you can buy another preamp and compare them both. If the new one is not better than you can return it to the store if it's not more than 14 days since the buy. At least in Germany this is possible - since you're speaking English I don't know, if you're in Germany...

Regards
Andreas
Pilotcutter
Administrator
#5 erstellt: 04. Jan 2013, 12:26
Hi togther and Frohes neues Jahr, as well!

Serveral times, I also was thinking about buying a AT-120 LP just to test and run a rather modern Plattenspieler. But actually, I never did.

I would suggest to operate it with the Audi Technica AT 120 E and to look for a dealer who may offer you both parts as a bargain. The AT-120E is a propper and common rock/pop system. The question whether a seperate phono-amp might be better or not, you can postpone for a while as Andreas already mentioned. Just get familiar with the sound at all and a change and test of a phono-amp you can take up someday.

Much success and luck!

Brgds Olaf


[Beitrag von Pilotcutter am 04. Jan 2013, 12:27 bearbeitet]
mlinaricus
Neuling
#6 erstellt: 04. Jan 2013, 12:39
thank you guys, you are right, pre amp can wait a bit if i can connect that plattenspieler on my heimkino yamaha 673, but i think i cant, or can i? sry, but i m really new at this.
and one more question, what do u think about buying technics 1210mk2 gebraucht with ortofon concorde nadel for 450-500e over ebay? is that to risky?

@andreas - yes, i live in München


[Beitrag von mlinaricus am 04. Jan 2013, 12:40 bearbeitet]
Pilotcutter
Administrator
#7 erstellt: 04. Jan 2013, 13:25
On the one hand it is actually rather risky to buy a used 1210 via ebay. Who's telling and assuring you that you wouldn't get a worn-out one? After some years of nightclub-operation I would refuse any 1210 (OK, depending on price). Moreover even the used 1210s on ebay are quite expensive as the produktion has been stopped in imho 2010 and this Plattenspieler is still something like a bestseller. On the other hand you might get a propper used one via local 2nd hand market. Just keep an eye of e.g. this Kleinanzeigen München. But every 2nd hand deal has it's own "quality" which neither you nor we can foresee.

But all in all it depends of how do you want to operate this Plattenspieler. For common home-use I wouldn't prefer and glorify the 1210 too much. The mentioned AT-120 LP is a propper one as well and if you can get on with a used one - the 2nd hand market is a good opportunity to get a good Plattenspieler. Most users here have Plattenspieler from 2nd hand deals.

Do you have any experience in operating Plattenspieler, or will it be your first TT?


[Beitrag von Pilotcutter am 04. Jan 2013, 17:50 bearbeitet]
mlinaricus
Neuling
#8 erstellt: 04. Jan 2013, 13:59
i will be my first, since i had one when i was a 10, so i dont really count that
Pilotcutter
Administrator
#9 erstellt: 04. Jan 2013, 15:06
OK! If you go for a new AT-120 LP you wouldn't do anything wrong.
Note well, that you have to mount and adjust the pick-up which requires some skill. But with these setup you're prepared with a stable TT for forthcoming years.

Brgds Olaf
mlinaricus
Neuling
#10 erstellt: 04. Jan 2013, 15:18
i found this useful video about that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCv72S6K4MQ

what needle u think i should buy?
Pilotcutter
Administrator
#11 erstellt: 04. Jan 2013, 15:41
The clip is quite helpful. The needle is (or belongs to) the pick-up system.

For example the AT 120 E/2

AT 120 E/II

That is a pick-up system suitable for the AT 120 LP. Can you see the needle?


[Beitrag von Pilotcutter am 04. Jan 2013, 15:43 bearbeitet]
Pufftrompeter
Gesperrt
#12 erstellt: 04. Jan 2013, 17:45
... as much as I like the appearance of the AT120 (an almost true look-alike clone of the genuine SL-1200 MkII), the proposed setup (turntable plus cartridge) comes close to the price of decent living-room, non-pro-abused 1210MkII ... just thumb through the usual classifieds and you'll find what you're looking for with a bit of patience.

OK - likely the deck will just have some sort of a Condorde system, but what the heck; they play music, too, and they do well A Dynavox to step up the signal to line-in level (20 Eur), an Ortofon Needle 10 (25Eur) on top in worst case, and the thing will play like there's no tomorrow.

Again - nothing against the AT 120 ... will likely play the same music in the same way. Just to satisfy the little red devil on your left shoulder that will always want the original :D. I knew what I'm talking about - had his whispering brother sitting on my left shoulder for a long time ...

If nothing suitable is to be found on ebay ... try www.leboncoin.fr - them 1210s are cheaper in France and for 300 in cash you can pick and chose; it's the about same site as ebay-kleinanzeigen in Germany.

Cheers,
Carsten
akem
Inventar
#13 erstellt: 04. Jan 2013, 18:31
I live near Munich, too. So if you have any trouble in setting up your turntable I could help you.
I would not buy the AT 120/2. If you safe the money for a preamp in the first step (yes, you can connect the turntable on any line-input of your Yamaha-amplifier/receiver like TAPE or AUX) you should spend it in a good pickup system. The cheapest one, that gets the rating "good" from me is a Denon DL110. It is a high-output MC, so even if it is a MC, it will run on the built in MM-preamp.

Regards
Andreas
mlinaricus
Neuling
#14 erstellt: 05. Jan 2013, 12:43
@carsten: even though technics is probably awesome turntable, i dont want to buy it over internet cause those cheapest which i can buy in my price range will be pretty f,,,ed up. from france, germany or anywhere else egal. for me, as a first-time user, AT will be enough as andreas and olaf said.

@olaf: thanks for showung me this model, i knew only about at120e and know as i can see this one is pretty cheaper but as good in quality. prima.

@andreas: thank u as well for opinion on denon model, i was mostly thinking about at120e and ortofon 2m red, but know situation changed now i m thinking between at120e/II, ortofon 2m red and denon dl110 also thank u for help offer, if anything is a problem i ll ask u. where r u near muenchen?
and most of all thank u for info that i can connect plattenspieler without pre amp on my heimkino. i didnt though understand that mc-mm part, i dont know whats that.

i m waiting for my yamaha 673 to arrive till the and of the month, probably next week or week after that i will order plattenspieler, so that it arrives little bit before or in same time, and i will connect it with default needle. only in that way i will feel the difference when i buy a better one, and that one will be one of those 3 mentioned before.
mlinaricus
Neuling
#15 erstellt: 05. Jan 2013, 14:21
the only thing that i dont like about this turntable is that it doesnt have automatik arm so when lp is finished arm stays down or hit the end of the record and they say that motor is pretty loud. i read that on amazon review from someone who already bought it.
Pufftrompeter
Gesperrt
#16 erstellt: 05. Jan 2013, 14:36
... Technics 1610 MkII; you're only way out then. A true 1210MkII with all 1210 features plus a motorized arm.

Of course, only available 2nd hand.

Carsten
akem
Inventar
#17 erstellt: 05. Jan 2013, 18:22

mlinaricus schrieb:

@andreas: thank u as well for opinion on denon model, i was mostly thinking about at120e and ortofon 2m red, but know situation changed now i m thinking between at120e/II, ortofon 2m red and denon dl110 also thank u for help offer, if anything is a problem i ll ask u. where r u near muenchen?
and most of all thank u for info that i can connect plattenspieler without pre amp on my heimkino. i didnt though understand that mc-mm part, i dont know whats that.


I live in Unterhaching. That's to the south of Munich.
The normal AT120E is not really good in my opinion. With a ATN140LC needle it's very good... The 2M red only has a tipped diamond. That means about 80% of the needle is made from solder (a very heavy metal alloy) and only the tip is a diamond. Due to the metal those needles are too heavy to follow all the fine details - it's lika lead-ball fixed on the leg of a 100m sprinter The needle of the DL110 is 100% diamond (that's called "naked diamond") and it even has the better rounding diameters, which enables the DL110 to a much better high frequency resolution.

To MM/MC:
Today there are mainly magnetic pickup systems. The physical basics says, that when a wire is in a magnetic field, which is changing in room or time, then a voltage is induced in that wire.
So there are three options, how such a pickup can be made: a moving coil in a fixed magnetic field (MC), a moving magnet in front of a fixed coil (MM) or a fixed coil plus a fixed magnet with a moving iron between them (MI). The moving part is always connected to the needle. With a fixed coil it is no problem to make the coil quite large so that a fairly high voltage can be induced. With a moving coil you have a fairly low voltage in most cases (so called Low-Output MCs). But here there is also the possibility to increase the voltage by making the moving coil larger (on cost of a higher moving mass).
Each design has its advantages and drawbacks. So MM and MI have a "high" output voltage on cost of a high source inductance an source resistance, which makes the sound quality sensitive to cable capacity and input capacity of the phonostage. A MC is quite immune against that but needs one more gain stage. High Output MCs such as the DL110 combine the best of both worlds but have a little more moving mass. So (theoretically) you have a little lower resolution than the best designs of a Low Output MC or a good MM/MI.

Regards
Andreas
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