Quad 12 L

Quad speakers should typically match best with Quad eletronics...after all the same company makes them...i tried the 99 CDP + 99 pre + 909 power with 12Ls...they sounded great...

perhaps if you could share your budget, room size and choice of music, the community can come up with other suggestions...

edit: did you listen to the quads at total sound? in their main area? it could be that the soundstage was skewed because of that...they have a glass wall on one side...

soulforged schrieb:

Quad speakers should typically match best with Quad eletronics...after all the same company makes them...i tried the 99 CDP + 99 pre + 909 power with 12Ls...they sounded great... perhaps if you could share your budget, room size and choice of music, the community can come up with other suggestions... edit: did you listen to the quads at total sound? in their main area? it could be that the soundstage was skewed because of that...they have a glass wall on one side...

Oops missed the budget, choice of music: Budget is around 1L, choice of music - very diverse from rock (anything from america to metallica), lounge, jazz (getting into it), female singers- sade, sarah brightman etc, new age fusion (chillout), carnatic (plus old tamil/hindi filmi) not to forget dream theatre.
Room will not be very big - good size to consider would be (8x6) - saying this because i am planning to move to hyd.
Total sound, i heard it at decibels in gem plaza with anand, was that what you mentioned too?

Total sound, i heard it at decibels in gem plaza with anand, was that what you mentioned too?

Yes, I meant the same place. I still feel Quad's versatality should suit your wide range of music choice. Also, try out Rotel amps at the same place.

soulforged schrieb:

Total sound, i heard it at decibels in gem plaza with anand, was that what you mentioned too? Yes, I meant the same place. I still feel Quad's versatality should suit your wide range of music choice. Also, try out Rotel amps at the same place.

I second his suggestion on pairing Rotel amps with Quads for your choice of music. give it a try.

Hello bharathana,

I personally dont like the sound of the QUAD Solid State Electronics... Pre, Power and the CD Player.

I personally find the sound is somewhat 'dated.'

Keep your options open... and Listen to a variety of stuff before U put down 100 Big ones ..

regarding the newer QUAD electronics i would fully back what amp_nut mentioned.. their speakers are better

you could get in touch with either Siva or Viren and check out if tubes are your thing..

if you want to go SS there are too many choices

the music didnt seem to fill the room (do you call that sound staging? - pardon my ignorance)

Filling the room with sound, requires the speakers to move an adequate amount of air in the room, particularly around the 'sweet spot' listning position.

THis is linked to how much air the speaker cones can displace, the speaker efficiency ( how loud it plays per watt of amplifier power ) and how much power and grunt the amplifier has.

Sound Staging is My PRIME criteria for a good stereo...

If you sit in the sweet spot / listning position, and close your eyes, you should be able to hear diffetent instruments and singers, at distinct points in space between the speakers.... thus recreating a virtual sound stage.

The location of each instrument ( image ) should, for a good stereo setup, even extend behind the speakers and have a vertical height location too. Sometime, the image could also extend beyond the 2 speaker extremes.

If All that happens, THEN, I am THRILLED !


Smooth Frequency response, LOUD volume, great amount of detail, etc etc can ALL be obtained with Mono, ie 1 channel playback, with 1 speaker only.

The fact that we DOUBLE our costs with 2 channels right thru the reproduction chain... and then Not focus on STEREO REPRODUCTION ( Sound stage ) is a shame ...

Amp_Nut: Thanks for the post. Informative and corroborative.
Looks like Total sound is not doing Rotel now. There was no demo peice too for trial. Only the yamaha avr + pioneer dvd or the quad 99 setup. I hear that Anand is getting the Cambridge 640 v2 anytime now and am waiting to hear that with the quads.
Arj: Yep SS the choice galore and hence the confusion.

On the speakers, I so want to listen to Cadence Arita. Isint there one place in Blore that can play Aritas to me?
Infact I was in Pune yday for the day and couldnt make it to Mundhwa too less time. I am going there again for sure atleast to try these aritas if not work
I was reading on another post about Arcam cd player for about 40k, which one was it?
Anyways I will keep reading the posts flowing in and take my time to listen and decide.
Quick thought, what is the general feeling on the Denon 700 cd and stereo amp?

Cadence does have a presence in Blr, can someone please post the contact details for Jochen (goolimangala)?

For Cambridge Audio, Arcam, AE etc. get in touch with Prithvi (Absolute Sound), he would be able to help you on them...

I use a Denon CDP and I really like the sound, esp in rock. I found their amps too bright. Almost tinny in their sound. Would suggest staying away from them.

Also try out the NAD - PSB combo, Voodoo uses them and can provide his impression.

Hi Bharathana,
If you have already bought the speakers then this post if mine is of no use.
In my experience with Quads....especially quad speakers....they are NOT AT ALL ALL-ROUNDERS. If you listen to a wide range of music ranging from Classical to Metal...Quads are NOT the right choice IMO. They only do few genres well and that they do very well. Basically, genres which has a lot of Acoustic instruments are reproduced well by Quads. As soon as you bring in electronic instruments (Pop/Mainstream Rock/Metal/Funk/Bollywood) Quads are mere average. Infact I have found them to be harsh and shouty without any bass depth on such genres. Now, you dont expect to setup a system worth 1.5 Lacs and listen only to those few CDs which sound good on your system!!!!!! . Now, thats my observation after 5-7 auditions of Quads at the same place (Total sound). All I can suggest is....take some precautions before plunging your money.

And yes, Cadence does have a listening room here in Bangalore.
Call up Mr.Jochen at 9845534952 for an audition.
BTW, Cadence are much better all rounders than QUAD IMO.

Abhi

The money is still in my pocket
I am still evaluating. Infact like I mentioned with only one audition i thought the dyns audience were much better than the quads for soundstaging and my liking of music. i am not sure on the specs if they are in the same segment.
And thanks for the contact of Jochen, will ring him to listen to cadence. Is Jochen a distributer or just a prowd owner of Cadence?

Bharathan

Hi Bharthana,
I have lived with the Audience 52 for sometime (around 6months). My listening tastes are similar to yours (all variety). They are one of the best speakers out there in that budget. Awesome....I still miss them. The electronics you have listened to them are not that great but still they are superb for all-round performance. As Amp_nut has stated, if you are looking at stereo, you cannot overlook imaging and soundstaging. The A52 image and stage like hell man. They are champs in that department.

bharathana schrieb:

Is Jochen a distributer or just a prowd owner of Cadence?

I think he is Both which is a very good thing !

Is your budget of 1lac only for the electronics ?

In my opinion, there are no speakers which will do all the music in your list very well in the general budget of the 12L. They will all screw up with some genre. You may need to make some shortlist of the kind of music you listen to mostly and choose your electronics / speakers accordingly.
I can’t think of a single speaker in the 35k category which will do justice to Mettalica and female singers and jazz. Most “All in one” speakers in the budget category are just “ jack of all trades “ and do not do full justice to any genre.

Square_Wave

That would be the upper limit, ideally would like to complete the entire system within 1.2 - 1.3. I know this is dangerous to have such a fleeting budget, I will firm it up once I do listen to both the ranges - mid and entry levels (like cambridge, nad (hopefully)).
Do shoot with your suggestions, I am in the pure listen mode now.

Bharathan

Dear Bharathan,

If you can listen to Monitor Audio RS series speakers please give them a try. They are pretty good with rock/pop and at the same time can do justice to Classical music, they are not the typical "Midrange makes music" kind of British speakers. You can partner them with pretty wide range of electronics like NAD,Arcam,Rotel etc.

If you are planning to upgrade in the near future it would be economical to allocate more budget for source and speakers so they can be used along with a better amp.

Regards
Anil

square_wave schrieb:

I can’t think of a single speaker in the 35k category which will do justice to Mettalica and female singers and jazz.

Two points..

1. I thought 12L is around 43k...

2. Speakers like AP, Epos, Energy...all do a very decent job with most genres of music IMO. And all of them can be had for 35-40k!!!

And none of them murders any particular genre of music the way Quad does it with Rock IMO .

Dear Bharathna,

At Prithvi's you should also audition Cyrus Electronics with ProAc Speakers. They seem to gel well together - I have been listening to them for almost 6 months now & I listen to all genres of music.

[quote="abhi.pani"]
And none of them murders any particular genre of music the way Quad does it with Rock IMO .[/quote]

Abhi you think so??? I felt that they are most suited for classic rock...try CCR or Led Zep on them...but maybe its a question of an individual's ears...

Dear Bharathna,

Here's the favourite line of this forum - [i]"trust your ears"[/i]. Listen to as many systems as you can before making your decision...

Epos certainly are great speakers...Reference Point in Indra Nagar deals with them...hear the M5 with Creek 5350 there...a rockin' combo...
Monitor Audio's Silver series is also worth a try...
In smaller speakers, I would also suggest Totem's Arro and Rainmaker...esp Rainmaker is a very good rock speaker...they have a dealer in Mumbai but I guess he does not offer auditions...

I recommend Arasu's Pre+power setup with his 502s(MTM configuration with Vifa D27 tweeters).

The power amp would be rated at about 130watts at 8 ohms. I would stack it up against the best of them.

IMHO, the setup would suit your tastes very well and all for about 50k, give or take a few thousand.
All you have to do is go with an open mind and audition his speakers and amps. He is in Dollars colony, Bangalore.


Soulforged, i Agree with you. The Quad 12Ls are quite nice for classic rock. Pink Floyd plays well too.

Abhi you think so??? I felt that they are most suited for classic rock...try CCR or Led Zep on them...but maybe its a question of an individual's ears...

Hi Soulfourged,
I know what you are trying to say. Yes, 12L works well with classic Rock but anything beyond that is total torture man. Classic rock is a genre where a lot of acoustic instruments are thrown in so 12L does it well. But talk about Mainstream Rock (Aerosmith, Springsten, AC/DC or even Bryan Adams ) you would not know where to run away. Really man..I have tried it with 11L and 22L....we were couple of friends auditioning together. Within 10 seconds, we were literally running in different directions . Same with Pop and Bollywood recordings(I tried "Its the time to Disco" from Kal ho naa ho)...super flop performance . But then we played some Jagjit Singh and Knopfler.....they sounded very good. You see thats the reason I dont call them all-rounders by any margin. They are heavily biased but with a reason IMO.

Hi Bharathana,
Are you looking at floorstanders ??

abhi.pani schrieb:

Hi Bharathana, Are you looking at floorstanders ??

Abhi

I am looking at bookshelves primarily. Not the floorstanders. Having said that, still open mind with more bias towards standmounters. (one reason is the home factor, the floorstanders supposedly look 'ugly and space consuming' u know what i mean, i have a diamond 8.4 now)
Anyways, I have fixed up an appointment with Prithvi for this saturday. I am hoping to get some questions answered.
Dr, will not forget the cyrus with Prithvi.

Will also check the epos + creek at reference point.

I am going to keep you guys posted on my progress.

Good going………Listen and decide yourself. Opinions are just that. Take it all with a pinch of salt because all opinions are biased due to personal preferences and expectations. I know couple of hardcore rock listeners who have settled down with quad speakers so it is all a matter of taste.
Trust your own ears.
One thing, Bookshelf speakers with a heavy stand will take as much space as a floorstander. Decision to buy bookshelf speakers should be based on sonic preferences and room size rather than space considerations. A bookshelf speaker will give you more focused and coherent sound than a similar priced floor stander unless you go the DIY route.

If the room is a small one, I would suggest you to stick with standmount speakers.

Try auditioning NAD C320BEE/C325BEE/C352 and NAD C542 CD Player paired with MA Bronze 2/PSB Image B25 speakers.

[/quote]
"Its the time to Disco" from Kal ho naa ho)...super flop performance . [/quote]

That “song” and the “recording” make me also want to run in all directions.

[quote="square_wave"][/quote]
"Its the time to Disco" from Kal ho naa ho)...super flop performance . [/quote]

That “song” and the “recording” make me also want to run in all directions.[/quote]


It was just one of the tracks which I mentioned buddy.
The same track has performed well in many other good speakers during my auditions.
Its just a typical bollywood track, good enough to see how a speaker does it. AP, Kef, AE, Polk, Proac, Dyns, Cadence all did it well. But Quad sucked . Just an example.

Read many comments about Quad 12L in this thread.As we all know Audio set up is very tricky . The whole system matching including interconnects etc bring the best out. We can not possibly make a generalized statement about a good product .
Now having said that , Quad 12L paired with Quad 909 and my passive Axiom along with Nordost red dawn I/C and rest of VdH cables give me most pleasure in terms of a neutral detailed yet highly musical sound out with a very tight base (change due to nordost ) of Quad 12L . It is a wonderful speaker with the right company.Of late I have been listening mainly old Hindi movie songs with non audiophile recordings but with lot of vocal content . It's doing very good job , better than Dyn 42 in my set up.

I own the 11Ls with a Rotel Integrated and I second abhi.pani. They sound simply awesome when reproducing Jazz (old school,fusion and smooth) as well as classic rock. However they are average when listening to pop,metal and disco. Although they do a very decent job with electronic music even chillout and ambient.
They are very detailed and for a small room they would do just fine. If you like more bass in your music, then you could add a sub with 11Ls or go with the 12Ls since your room is small. The Rotel does a very good job of driving them IMHO and my volume does not go beyond the 10 O clock position when I want to listen to loud music (Hed Kandi beach series).

Another question,

Any place in Blore that can show / play me NAD electronics?

thanks again

Check out ARN systems in Fraiser Town...they keep NAD and PSB. You might also find a Vincent there on demo...

Another guy who stocks NAD and PSB is Dinesh (9886989014) of Vibes (http://www.vibes-sfs.com/), in fact I bought my B25s from him (you can mention me as the reference if you want to) and he sources them from Lakozy, Mumbai.

For ARN (http://arnsystems.com/), call up either Naser (9844039686) or Javed (9844063783) for an audition.
Though they are well informed and courteous on the phone, personally I havent had a good experience with them...not really bad too.
They never return calls, took a long time to schedule an audition, also they dont stock much of entry level stuff of brands they deal with. I felt they were more interested with high end buyers/corporates. Still, I suggest you go ahead and try, you may come out with a different opinion.

Good Luck!

Hello All

Some updates on the weekend auditioning

1. Epos (12.2) + Creek (destiny) - Epos are lovely speakers and handled every type of music very decently. However it excelled on Jazz, wonderfully warm sounding and nice to the ear. Yes, bass was tight and it did extend well into the low hz.

2. ProACs + Linn (integrated cd player) at Prithvis. Great sounding again, just that puts my budget in a bit of a whack. Anyways, I am going back to listen to the arcam cd73 ( i think) with the arcam stereo amp (entry leve) with the proacs. Having said that, this system was completely overshadowed with Prithvis home setup of the rethms and unison. Complete bliss! Hmm there is some more savings to go before i can think of that setup.

3. Dyns + Cambridge 640 on a Primare cd player - As usual wonderful allrounder. Great music, I am thinking the cambridge is nice. The dyns are up there.

Last but not least, Quad 12 Ls again but this time with the yamaha avr and pioneer cd player (please dont wince, I wanted to try it out of quad electronics ) - I have to say I am still liking the quad for the complete detail it produces. I dont think the dyn picked up that detail. I want to see how it performs paired with amp like cambridge / rotel. I am gonna wait for that. Have to say, Quads did fight their way back into my contention. Oh btw I thought they held the bass tight better than the others i heard.
Abhi - I am gonna take this offline with you to discuss your audition findings.

Still waiting to do the Nad and mirages or bronzes (maybe silver) at dinesh. He cancelled on me yesterday, so i will try for wednesday.

Quickly what does the group think of the 640 Cv2 cd player. I know of their rave reviews, but you guys based on your listening, do sound out some thoughts.

more on the way.

The CA 640v2 is a very good cd player. A good friend of mine is using it with Poacs and MF electronics.

bharathana schrieb:

Hello All Quickly what does the group think of the 640 Cv2 cd player. I know of their rave reviews, but you guys based on your listening, do sound out some thoughts. more on the way.

I listened to CA 640V2 and Arcam 73 with the same electronics and speakers. I went for Arcam because it had more width, warm and bigger soundstage.

I agree completely.

myriad schrieb:

bharathana schrieb: Hello All Quickly what does the group think of the 640 Cv2 cd player. I know of their rave reviews, but you guys based on your listening, do sound out some thoughts. more on the way. I listened to CA 640V2 and Arcam 73 with the same electronics and speakers. I went for Arcam because it had more width, warm and bigger soundstage.

Great. That’s some good info. I have heard the Arcam cd73 only once and I liked it. Never had the opportunity to do a direct comparison. I guess the price difference between them is around 12k right ? Where did you do this comparison and with what electronics / speakers ?

square_wave schrieb:

myriad schrieb: bharathana schrieb: Hello All Quickly what does the group think of the 640 Cv2 cd player. I know of their rave reviews, but you guys based on your listening, do sound out some thoughts. more on the way. I listened to CA 640V2 and Arcam 73 with the same electronics and speakers. I went for Arcam because it had more width, warm and bigger soundstage. Great. That’s some good info. I have heard the Arcam cd73 only once and I liked it. Never had the opportunity to do a direct comparison. I guess the price difference between them is around 12k right ? Where did you do this comparison and with what electronics / speakers ?

Myriad - where are you? More info on this - electronics and speakers would be great.

square_wave schrieb:

myriad schrieb: bharathana schrieb: Hello All Quickly what does the group think of the 640 Cv2 cd player. I know of their rave reviews, but you guys based on your listening, do sound out some thoughts. more on the way. I listened to CA 640V2 and Arcam 73 with the same electronics and speakers. I went for Arcam because it had more width, warm and bigger soundstage. Great. That’s some good info. I have heard the Arcam cd73 only once and I liked it. Never had the opportunity to do a direct comparison. I guess the price difference between them is around 12k right ? Where did you do this comparison and with what electronics / speakers ?

I tried both the cdp's with Creek's entry level amp and Epos bookshelves as well as CA 640 V2 amp and Monitor Audio B2.

bharathana schrieb:

square_wave schrieb: myriad schrieb: bharathana schrieb: Hello All Quickly what does the group think of the 640 Cv2 cd player. I know of their rave reviews, but you guys based on your listening, do sound out some thoughts. more on the way. I listened to CA 640V2 and Arcam 73 with the same electronics and speakers. I went for Arcam because it had more width, warm and bigger soundstage. Great. That’s some good info. I have heard the Arcam cd73 only once and I liked it. Never had the opportunity to do a direct comparison. I guess the price difference between them is around 12k right ? Where did you do this comparison and with what electronics / speakers ? Myriad - where are you? More info on this - electronics and speakers would be great.

I am in Kolkata.

Bharatana,
In case you do go for Quad, you could match it with Lyrita Integrated. I believe viren is making a new more powerful one. One of our members is using the combo I think. Dont underrate the Wharfedale diamonds with speakers, they are budget priced but quite good. A good combo, which will give you all round performance within your budget would be

Speakers Whardale diamonds plus sub(30000),
New Lyrita Valve more powerful integrated (Approx 35,000)there are other options here)
Marantz CD player(15000),
Project xpression III (approx 30,000)
project phono / lyrita phono (5000)
Interconnects/cable/speaker stands (10,000)
Total Rs. 1,25,000
So within your budget you get a nice all round system. If you are starting to get into system building, please dont neglect the turntable. It is an extremely enjoyable source.
Purnendu

purnendu schrieb:

Dont underrate the Wharfedale diamonds with speakers, they are budget priced but quite good.

I agree! 100%!

purnendu schrieb:

Bharatana, In case you do go for Quad, you could match it with Lyrita Integrated. I believe viren is making a new more powerful one. One of our members is using the combo I think. Dont underrate the Wharfedale diamonds with speakers, they are budget priced but quite good. A good combo, which will give you all round performance within your budget would be Speakers Whardale diamonds plus sub(30000), New Lyrita Valve more powerful integrated (Approx 35,000)there are other options here) Marantz CD player(15000), Project xpression III (approx 30,000) project phono / lyrita phono (5000) Interconnects/cable/speaker stands (10,000) Total Rs. 1,25,000 So within your budget you get a nice all round system. If you are starting to get into system building, please dont neglect the turntable. It is an extremely enjoyable source. Purnendu

Thanks for that Purnendu. I do own a diamond 8.4 now and now how the diamonds sound. Agree, wonderful vfm speaker.
I have now narrowed down my speaker choices to quad 12L and Epos 12.2. Would have love to have the proacs in the list as well, but cost constraints take the better of it. (hmph)
I got a home audition of the quads while the epos guy would not give me a home audition. However when I heard the epos again with a creek destiny amp, I seem to like the epos better.
Anyways will do more rounds of listening before picking one.
However what does the group think of Epos vs Quad?????

Having said that I would like to know the choices on the amplifier, mid range lets say. I should be going to delhi sometime in the next / this month when I can fix up an appointment with Viren to check the valve amp. What are the other choices I can look at? I was wondering Arcam Diva A70, Roksan Kandy MLIII, Rotel RA04, Creek. Any others.
Is there an entry level Cayin valve amp.

More updates coming.

Bharatana, did you also check out Epos M5? I've heard them and they truely rock! and from what I've read of them, they are better than 12.2 (I've not heard these).

I personally prefer the Epos any day.
Jeeves

Jeeves schrieb:

I personally prefer the Epos any day. Jeeves

Jeevan,
I remember you telling me once that you were very impressed with a particular epos model. Was it the M5 or 12.2 ?

The Epos M5..small speaker with a BIG sound. Superb value.