Entry level turntable

Most bang for minimal buck? Pro-Ject Debut III.

Or tell him to look for a higher end used piece - if he doesn't mind a bit of risk n' research!

I think Purnendu has an old NAD TT for sale.

For convenience you could consider the Project debut III SB (with the speed box) to electronically switch between 33 1/3 and 45.

Regards
SNV

SNV schrieb:

For convenience you could consider the Project debut III SB (with the speed box) to electronically switch between 33 1/3 and 45. Regards SNV

second that!

Whats the price of Debut 3 without phono stage??

A lot would depend on the records that would be played on the TT. If your friend plans to play some old hand-me-downs then going for an expensive TT (even at the entry level) may not be worth it. For such usage, Denon's DP-29F could be adequate, its a very basic TT with a built-in phono with decent sound quality.

Also, a speed box would be needed if you listen to EP's and LP's in the same proportion. I mostly listen to LP's so don't really need a speed control.

Other than that, the debut III is probably the best bargain you can get in the entry level category. Heard good stuff about Rega Planar and Goldring GR TTs. Dunno their cost or their availability here in India.

http://www.vpiindustries.com/products_sm.htm

This may be for sale - used - in good condition @ 33 to 35 % off on the list price.
If amyone ia interested, do p.m. me, I could give you that persons contact details. Audition & price can by talked about directly.

THE SCOUTMASTER, A MASTER OF SOUND

2004 - Hi Fi -Product of the Year
2004 - Stereophile Magazine - Runner-up Analog Product of the Year
2004 - Positive Feedback Online - Product of the Year

soulforged schrieb:

A lot would depend on the records that would be played on the TT. If your friend plans to play some old hand-me-downs then going for an expensive TT (even at the entry level) may not be worth it.

pure BS!!
Everybody seems to think that old hand-me down LPs are rotten quality.
why is that?
As an avid analog format bloke & one who has almost 90% of my collection to be used (or "old hand-me-downs") I can confidently say that old/used records can be simply excellent quality. Many of them can be dust & dirt free & have virtually zero groove noise. I have many such LPs!


IMO, I would say that this person should buy a TT based on
(1) how dedicated he/she will be towards this format. It is a nit-picky format which is rather high-maintenance.
(2) how clean/dust-free the overall TT environment can be made. NOTE that I am not saying to make the general environment dust-free; rather, the location where the TT is placed should be as dust-free as possible.
Otherwise, you are likely to clog several of the TT moving parts & gather a large amount of dust on the belt thereby ruining the platter speed.
(3) size of the collection & future plans to build it. Buying new LPs is expensive & all dealers want to charge $20 & higher for re-issues. That can get expensive quickly UNLESS your friend is monied.
(4) budget (of course!)

soulforged schrieb:

Also, a speed box would be needed if you listen to EP's and LP's in the same proportion. I mostly listen to LP's so don't really need a speed control.

Most entry-level TTs come with a motor that has 2 grooves -one for 33.33 RPM & the other for 45 RPM. So, a SB is not really needed to change speed unless you are changing speeds often during 1 listening session (unlikely but possible). You could simply set the motor for 33.33 or 45 at the start of the listening session & keep spinning vinyl till you finish. The next listening session you could change the speed.

soulforged schrieb:

Other than that, the debut III is probably the best bargain you can get in the entry level category. Heard good stuff about Rega Planar and Goldring GR TTs. Dunno their cost or their availability here in India.

Do *not* forget about the Music Hall MMF2.1 & the MMF5. They are both very good performance for the money. I've owned the MMF5 so I speak from personal experience.

bombaywalla schrieb:

pure BS!! Everybody seems to think that old hand-me down LPs are rotten quality. why is that? As an avid analog format bloke & one who has almost 90% of my collection to be used (or "old hand-me-downs") I can confidently say that old/used records can be simply excellent quality. Many of them can be dust & dirt free & have virtually zero groove noise. I have many such LPs!

This is not what I meant. A well maintained record can last years but I've often come accross hand-me-downs from uncles and aunties that have been long forgotten and have collected grime that a good unforgiving TT would get depressed about. Prithvi knows the ones I'm referring to...I took them to him for cleaning

Almost all my records are ancient. Fortunately most of them were well kept but every once in a while you come across one that has shitloads of grime or is warped a bit...

Used records bought from shops dealing with such are different. They grade the records and also clean it before putting them on the shelf...

To cut my long story short, I meant, if the person is beginning his vinyl journey with old records, he should take their condition into consideration before putting his money down. And if Vinyl would not be the primary source, there's no point of spending more than what it merits (Bombaywalla's point #1 & #3)

bombaywalla schrieb:

Do *not* forget about the Music Hall MMF2.1 & the MMF5. They are both very good performance for the money. I've owned the MMF5 so I speak from personal experience.

Absolutely...I had forgotten abt Music Hall but not for long...sent a PM to sub regarding them just before I read this post

Hello All,

Bombaywalla has put in all the major points.

I have a request any one getting into or coming back to vinyl

"Please listen to a decent modern vinyl set up complete with modern cartridge and phono preamps"

So please experience what is capable of with vinyl and then decide how much you want to spend on it.

The NAD, Technics and some Thorens were good during their days but things have improved a lot and in fact vinyl playback systems are more affordable nowadays.

Regards
Anil

Hi S-B,
If you want the 'honest advice' of a vinyl lover, it is this.
Tell your friend to put the maximum amount of money he can into his turntable. The project xperience Xpack seem to be good VFM. If I had a choice of starting again today, I would have put a lot more of my money into the TT than I did. Possibly as much as 75% (slight exagerration!). My Project xperience turntable is a budget affair, but with the Denon 110 cart it is sooo very good, that it makes me want more. Its the details you pay for. With a better table you get a lower noise floor, less distortion and pitch stability. It is possible for a budget player to have a good tonality and timbre, and to be judged badly, because it has these limitations. This is the constraint with my NAD 5120 for instance.(In perfect condition and ofcourse still available for sale at a pittance). Which is why I would advise your friend against buying a rock bottom player.

Purnendu

purnendu schrieb:

Hi S-B, If you want the 'honest advice' of a vinyl lover, it is this. Tell your friend to put the maximum amount of money he can into his turntable. The project xperience Xpack seem to be good VFM. If I had a choice of starting again today, I would have put a lot more of my money into the TT than I did. Possibly as much as 75% (slight exagerration!). My Project xperience turntable is a budget affair, but with the Denon 110 cart it is sooo very good, that it makes me want more. Its the details you pay for. With a better table you get a lower noise floor, less distortion and pitch stability. It is possible for a budget player to have a good tonality and timbre, and to be judged badly, because it has these limitations. This is the constraint with my NAD 5120 for instance.(In perfect condition and ofcourse still available for sale at a pittance). Which is why I would advise your friend against buying a rock bottom player. Purnendu

whole-heartedly agree with Purnendu!
The rule of thumb in vinyl is
#1 TT
#2 tonearm &
#3 cartridge.

it is *much* better to put a mediocre tonearm & cartridge on a kick-ass TT because you know that the TT will be extracting the all that the tonearm can give. This will be an optimized system. Later when budget allows the tonearm & cartrigde in that order can be upgraded.

However, I still stick to my advice posted earlier - if your friend is merely flirting w/ vinyl, tell him to not get into it at all 'cuz a casual interest in vinyl will give him nothing but frustration.
Vinyl demands all one's full attention & enthusiasm if one wants to enjoy the its fruits.
If your friend is unable or unwilling to put up with its nit-picky-ness, tell him to fuggedaboudit!

bombaywalla schrieb:

Vinyl demands all one's full attention & enthusiasm if one wants to enjoy the its fruits.

wholeheartedly second that. though i suppose if you get the cart set up by the dealer the most you'll have to do is cleaning the stylus occasionally when required. assuming he does not want to keep experimenting with cartridges.

i also agree with purnendu - spend more at one shot. there's not too big a market for used turntables! if its casual listening for the odd lp here and there go for the project debut. that's the only budget and decent one i know is available here. dont really know which other brands budget models are available here..