My Drivers..i Finally got them!

benkenobi schrieb:

Hey Manek, nope. Am not using T-nuts. I wish i could land my hands on them....have'nt been able to find them here. I guess i need to look harder for them... Do let me know if you can get them for me or assit me in that regard.. Cheers, Benkenobi

sbose schrieb:

benkenobi schrieb: Hey Manek, nope. Am not using T-nuts. I wish i could land my hands on them....have'nt been able to find them here. I guess i need to look harder for them... Do let me know if you can get them for me or assit me in that regard.. Cheers, Benkenobi

Hi,
Did you get the T nut as suggested by Manek .
I am situated at Kolkata - and if you still want them let me know.
Saradindu bose

Hey Saradindu,
Well thank you for the offer...
Presently Arasu helped me solve the problem with speaker gasket and by using no10 phillips screws...so maybe for the next project(mostly a sub) will need them...will let you know..
Thanks again.
Benkenobi

Hey Sachi! The speakers look great and considering the amount of work that you have put into them, they must sound great too. Would love to hear them though. I might be coming down to Bangalore sometime next month. If its okay with you, would love to pay you a visit and listen to your speakers (and also exchange some notes).

Can you also update with the price list for the components that went into the speakers? It would give a idea when one compares similar commercial speakers.

Also how does it sound with the nad?

The speakers are presently at Arasu's place undergioing fine tunig and testing.
AM very grateful that he has taken time to look and help out with my speaker.
They will probably be there for a couple more weeks...Arasu has generously agreed to having them over at his place till then.

Well, have not connected the Nad...
We are testing it with Arasu's 6 channel Pre and power amplifiers..
each channel is rated at 150watts RMS(20-20kHz) at 8 ohms..
Can only give a proper opinionm after today..


REagrding the price list..
well the amplifiers are not yet done..will be receiving the transfoermers on wednesday...650 VA for the lows and 300 VA for the mids and highs..

once it is done i will post a detailed price list..
But it is going to be well below the 25k mark including the 6 channel power amp and passive Pre(most probably using Alps potnetiometer).

Cheers,
Benkenobi

You are more than welcome to exchange notes....Lemme know about ur plans..looking forward to meeting you..

Hey Guys,
WEll, WE finally got aroudn to testing the entire setup..Frankly i was mroe than abit apprehensive about my expectations.
The resuslts that we got were mind blowing. Read on and find out more..

Well, here's the first picture..It shows Arasu's 6 channel Preamp(output stage of each channel is an OPA627..each costs 1800 bucks!) and power amps Class AB 150 watts/ch each. These were used to power the mids and the lows...




Teh second picture shows my speakers in test mode with Arasu's marvelous creations in the background...
My Nad was used for driving the tweeters.




The third picture is an overall look at the setup..Check out the diffusers and absorbers on eitehr side.. Bass traps are placed strategically which provide for some surreal sound expeirence. Also check out the line Arrays with a VIfa tweeter..
Everything is manufactured by him apart from the DVD player and TV.



Coming to my speakers..well, we felt that the xover was cutting the tweeter pretty early and nowhere near the supposedly designed 3.4kHz..Thisis down to the local capacitors that i have used in the circuit..Based on Arasu's advise, i will be replacing them with 1% tolerant Philips capacitors to get the maximum out of the xover.
The channel separation was not bad, but should see a huge improvement once the Phillips matched capacitors are installed.
There is also a very faint hum in the right channel tweeter.. Some grounding problem i guess...this would be sorted out in due time.

Though there are some areas of improvement overall the sound quality is very good. Good enough to easily eclipse the Quad 22L worth 75k and any other commercial speaker in that price region!!
:

Remains to be seen how much of a difference its going to make once we test it with the gainclone amps..Watch this space for more.
Cheers,
Benkenobi

It has been awfully generous on Arasu's part to entertain me in helping me build and test my speakers.

Man!!! What the hell are those?? In the 3rd pic, the pair of speakers on the extreme right (Or are they speakers??) They have something like 16 tiny midbass and 1 tweeter on the top. Excuse my ignorance, but what are they and what are they supposed to do?

Those are Line arrays...
Made from Arasu's 3 inch drivers and the Vifa D27 tweeter..believe it or not the Xmax on those 3 inch drivers is 2.5 mm while the xmax on my 4.5 inch midrange driver is only 1 m..
Those are exclusively for stereo....u got to listen to them to comprerend the sound quality...just phenomenal..
and just for your info, all drivers, all the mid bass and in the line array and all other speakers too are flush mounted..even the grill sockets are flush mounted!!..Its truly amazing workmanship.

Some more eye candy..
This one without the flash...more natural and u can see the graining pattern clearly.


In the corners you can see bass traps while on the side u have absorbers and diffusers.

Obi-wan,
Forget that GRE and focus on building a career in Hi- Fi

also noticed your new signature, have you along the way decided to walk the 'middle path'


Cheers
K

hehe..That's very flattering Krish. Thanks, but a long way to go for me ..i still think am a beginner..

just for your info I did pretty oaky in my GRE..and no..as much as i would revel and love to be in audio..its going to be a hobby and nothing more..
will hopefully be moving out of India by the first week of August 2006..that means i will be leaving all of this behind for quite a while ..
But it is something i have taken upon myself to do..and am passionate about that too(VLSI engineering)..
u never know..may end up working for TI(Burr Brown) or Analog devices or Wolfson designig Dacs and Opamps ..
So Audio is not totally out for me..

Regarding the signature..
only following Master Yoda's teachings...and its very much true!

Cheers,
Benkenobi

P.s ther eis a slight problem in the mids..but i think after the capacitors are replaced it should sound much better.

Obi-wan,
I'm dead serious.Obviously Hi-Fi has become a personal passion in these last few months but there is no reason why it cannot be turned into a fulfilling career.

F'rinstance you need to look no further than this forum for inspiration - Viren,Prithvi,Siva,Arasu,Deaf...

Trust me life becomes ever so fulfilling if you covert your Passion into a Career.

Don't mean to pontificate, just thought that it would be a good idea to provoke you into thinking along these lines.

Cheers
K

That may be..but Audio is only one of my passions..
and for me to pursue my other goals and wishes i need to get an education and a damn good one at that..and i see US as the only gateway for that education.
Hi-fi has been a passion ever since i learnt to use the Sony deck that my father had got from Singapore.I was just 4 then.
I started my journey listening to Micheal Jackson's beat it..got second place in dance when i was in primary a couple of times(break danced to "beat it")..

hehe..But like i said..after my MS i might end up designing DACs and Opamps and what not for audio..so audio is still there..

Alongtwith running, it is one of the reasons that makes me want to get up every morning..

benks...many of yoda's statements are extremely profound, to say the least !

I'm with you on Yoda !

Manek.

Okay guys the cheap ugly green capacitors have been replaced with some better (Thomson make-1.5 rupees each)) yellow ones..
Was a tough job replacing 40 capacitors..a back breaking job..
But its done..
we'll get to test it out tomorrow and i am hoping that nothing will go kaput or worse, kaboom!
There are some more modifications to the xover that are on the way..
Here's the updated xover pic.



Benkenobi

hi ben,
check the enclosure tightness and try it again i think that there is some problem in the cabinet construction its not too solid. Did u use some screws(placed one in 3 inches) to join the cabinets along with silicone gel if so you will not get any problems. I am with the another project i might help you in between.

cheers,
Sandeep

Thanks sandeep..
But i have evyerthing solved..
Everything is working beautifullly..
the sound has totally changed after replacinog the capacitors..
The speakers are brilliant..

Sonic_Master schrieb:

hi ben, check the enclosure tightness and try it again i think that there is some problem in the cabinet construction its not too solid.

Where the hell did you get that idea from..

hey sachu when i ordered my enclosure i said to him that even if i play cricket with the enclosure it should be solid. He said ok and got it done very strong. Just like that... But the construction is done perfect.

well man finally u finished it..

ok then how is the quality?

is it fine?

my expectations about ur speakers>>
treble will be right but because of wide baffle you will face some prob...
mid will be relatively bright when u compare with the other systems.
Bass may be quiet powerful but i dont think it will be fast.

but i love the quality of vifa drivers.. its really nice..

I suggest you to make some bass traps in ur room if possible since it makes lots of diff..

cheers,
Sandeep

Your wrong on all three..


the treble is surreal...its too good..

The mids are very good...the mid is a VIFA driver and for 200 bucks it kicks ass..

Now the biggie..
The woofer..
believe it or not..This is one of the best sounding woofers i have heard ..
I feel that among the speakers that i have heard,in the bass section, they are only bettered by Arasu's huge floorstanders and the Proac D15..in fact, it will give even the Proac a run for its money..
But it needs loads of power...and handles it very well.

Unfortunately, the amplifier will not be completed for another 2 months..
Am now making a complete integrated amp(Passive Pre + amp) with the xover housed inside the amplifier casing to keep everything neat and also avoids 3 sets of interconnects and signal loss by keeping the signal path as short as possible.

Benkenobi

hey sachu i mean that it can be improved alot not just like that... see if you ve constructed the tweeter and mid drivers in a narrow enclosure then it might have definitely improved alot.
See if you might have used the higherend version of the midbass with rubber surround then the mid might be improved alot. but for the money that u paid its really kick ass...he he..
i agree u that the sys will be nice but it might have improved alot..

cheers,
Sandeep

The next time I'm in B'lore, I'm gonna call and drop in to audition your speakers ... that's if it's O.K with you ofcourse

I'm dying to hear them.BTW what are amp are you using to drive them ?

Cheers

some more modifications on the way are..
1>better opamps
replace the AD713s with the TLE2144s

2>better input capacitors on the xover..

3>40,000 micro farad caps per rail for the amplifiers driving the woofers

4>ALPS potentiometer for the Passive pre

5>AD797s used as buffers for the Passive PRe.

These suggestions were made by Arasu and now after auitioning them , am in total agreement with him. The speakers deserve something really special..
There is a lot of potential for improvement..It can only get better from here.
This will take time and hence i think it will be a while before i can actually demo it for someone else.

Benkenobi

Oh..just one more thing..
If u guys are thinking that this is costing me a bomb..
Well it is..
though for me 23-25k (total cost) is a fortune, am sure for many it is a pretty small sum to spend on a hi-fi system..that too an active 3-Way!

Hey Krish..
Sure no sweat..But let me get the entire thing fininsed first..then i'll take the initiative and call a gathering just for auditioning the "Lightsaber".

Benkenobi

Krish schrieb:

The next time I'm in B'lore, I'm gonna call and drop in to audition your speakers ... that's if it's O.K with you ofcourse I'm dying to hear them.BTW what are amp are you using to drive them ? Cheers 8)

Presently we were testing it with Arasu's amps..
150watts per channel at 8 ohms over the audible freq range.

Therefore am a bit aprehensive about the final outcome..
The final sound with the amp that i am building will not be that good..
i am using the LM4780s for the amplifiers..essentially gainclones that are supposed to be between entry and mid level NAD/Rotel quality.
110 watts for each of the woofers.
60 a piece for the tweeter and midrange..
a total of 230 watts per channel.

oooh..am on 999

Benkenobi

hi sachu,
the 4780 amps are supposed to be one of the finest amps available coz of lots of reasons but one more thing ive seen lots of people who gave the response as the amps are far far superior to the rotels and Nads, I dont think they are that bad. Ive seen many of the guys who were using the rotels and denons started to use the 4780s and 3886 as their superior amps but they use exotic components like vishay or dale resistors, black gate caps etc etc.. see man its all about the quality of the componenets. But its all about ur layout how you make ur amp well.



cheers,
Sandeep

Sonic_Master schrieb:

hi sachu, the 4780 amps are supposed to be one of the finest amps available coz of lots of reasons but one more thing ive seen lots of people who gave the response as the amps are far far superior to the rotels and Nads, I dont think they are that bad. Ive seen many of the guys who were using the rotels and denons started to use the 4780s and 3886 as their superior amps but they use exotic components like vishay or dale resistors, black gate caps etc etc.. see man its all about the quality of the componenets. But its all about ur layout how you make ur amp well. cheers, Sandeep

u think i don't know that!

U have to keep in mind that for me to justify using black gate caps in my amp i should have Scanspeak or dynaudio drivers or soemthing equivalent..
So, u need to keep in mind for what speaker you are designing the amp..i can always replace the caps at a later time when i have some cash..
don't worry about the amplifier layout ..i have very good friends who are experts in this field..

You don't always aim too high dude..you need to stay positive but not aim for the moon today and the stars tomorrow..small steps will get u to where u want to go..
i never envisaged that the project would work.in fact i went ahead expecting to just throw away cash down the drain..thiking that this is just a fantasy that i needed to explore and take a shot at.
Hell, i didn't think it would even make a blikety blop sound let alone such great music..

Hey my 1000's up!

benkenobi schrieb:

Hey my 1000's up! :)

As in most things in life, it is not the quantity but the Quality which counts

Just kidding, Congrats cheers

hey sachu im not telling that i know that ur damn expert in this but i was wondering why u are telling that the 4780s or 3886 to be midend amps thats why i said that.. he he ...
when i came to ur home ive seen ur intrest and capabilities in the hifi yeah im quiet impressed dont think that im underestimatin u...

cheers,
Sandeep

Arj schrieb:

benkenobi schrieb: Hey my 1000's up! :) As in most things in life, it is not the quantity but the Quality which counts Just kidding, Congrats cheers

thanks...i guess
.btw, am still waiting to see if someone else will question you abt ur avatar..?
Let me do it instead..
I don't really get what your avatar means..care to explain?

Sachi

Dear Ben,
Congrats on completion of your project.Glad you like the end result of your creation.Hope to hear it some time.
Regards Deaf.

Well guys,

a lot of modifications are being done..
Here's the update.

1>Population of a new xover board is almost done.

2>High quality matched capacitors and resistors for the xover have been used along with better quality solder. Soldering too has improved a bit.

3>Better opamps for the xover have been ordered..40$ plus 10$ shipping. the AD713s were a waste of a good 50 dollars.

4>Just took delivery of two high quality single channel opamps for buffer stage of passive pre..cost 20$ plus 10$ shipping.

5>Bridged LM4780 boards are being populated.. one each for each woofer..110 watts at 8 ohm.

6>still looking for filtering capacitors for the bridged amps.

7>Took delivery of the transformers..
one transformer for the bridged amps and the other for the two stereo LM4780 boards for the mids and highs..
Total weight of the two trannies alone is in excess of 10kgs.
cost=3000 rupees

8>cost of 4 LM4780s=36$ plus 18$ shipping

9>Design and layout of the integrated amp is in process of being completed.

Exciting times ahead...at least for me.
will keep you posted..

Benkenobi

Guys ..do you think a phono preamp section needs to be implemented in the integrated amp..
or should i use a seperate phono and preamp stage externally?

Dear sachu,
hey how can a bridged 4780 give 110watts the case is ...
If you use without bridged it goes to 58watts into 8ohms and if you bridge it then it will give 200watts into 8ohms... be careful ben...i suggest to use just one channel without bridged to the 10inch driver coz sometimes the peak output capability of the non bridged amp will goes to 130watts...

As far as the phono preamp is considered its better not to use outside since it will have some RF interference in that small 2 ft connector between preamp and poweramp.

best regards,
Sandeep

The output depends on the input rails..

yeah its ok its ur wish how to use it...

sachu i want some lm3886 amp pcbs.... are there available anywhere in India? how much do they cost?

cheers,
Sandeep

Sonic_Master schrieb:

yeah its ok its ur wish how to use it...

look at the datasheet closely you will fgure it out..
regarding the 3886..
no idea man..if u need them so badly then i suggest u do p2p.

benkenobi schrieb:

I finally got to hold the drivers in my hand... all thanks to Junia,:hail unbelievable.....thanks a lot Junia, no words can express my gratitude... And the packaging was bullet proof!...no problems there at all... thanks, Cheers, Sachi

Hello Sachi,
I am based in Bangalore and have been trying for a long time to get some good quality drivers for my DIY project. I came across this thread just todya and immediately registered in this forum as I felt I finally found my answer ..:-) Woould really really appreciate if you could tell me how you procured those perts from parts express..were you in US or you managed to get it shipped to India.

BTW: Amazing speakers you have built..really impressive..

Thanks,
Linjo

Hey Linjo,
It was nice speaking to you.
Thank you for your kind words.
As i explained to you this afternoon, some more work to be done.
Will let u know when the project is ready.
i hope wahtever info i gave u was helpful.
Cheers,
Benkenobi

P.S would love to check out ur DIY MOSFET amp sometime.

Yup ...Thanks Sachi. It was nice talking to you too...Once my Sub is ready, I would be more than willing to let you take a look ( or listen) ..:-).
I am also kind of keen to listen to your speakers you built...I really wonder how you managed such finish ..I did my speaker boxes with the help of a carpenter who did not know anything about the nuances of speaker building..had a tough time making him understand that I need the box as rigid and strong as possible and also well finished. Finally he made the encolsure and ditched me..had to do the veneering and polishing on my own.. . So the lack of professional touch shows on my speakers..:)

Anyways, do keep us posted on your project.

Thanks,
Linjo.

Hi Ben,

I want to replace platic plugs from my subwoofer and speaker stands with metal spikes. You might have come across these duirng your DYI project.
Do you know any source for such metal spikes in Mumbai?

Appreciate your response in advance.

benkenobi schrieb:

.btw, am still waiting to see if someone else will question you abt ur avatar..? Let me do it instead.. I don't really get what your avatar means..care to explain? Sachi

saw this only now. nothing philosophical about it.. its just the symbol for electrocompaniet, which happens to to be the brand of my Pre amp which I am mighty pleased with

saw this only now. nothing philosophical about it.. its just the symbol for electrocompaniet, which happens to to be the brand of my Pre amp which I am mighty pleased with

Also indicative of the currency of the fair country that you work in

khanmadari schrieb:

Hi Ben, I want to replace platic plugs from my subwoofer and speaker stands with metal spikes. You might have come across these duirng your DYI project. Do you know any source for such metal spikes in Mumbai? Appreciate your response in advance.

Dear Khanmadari,

had been busy with some stuff and only saw your post today.

Its a good idea to go for metal spikes especialy if urs bounce around the room when the SPL levels go high.



One place where you can get spikes is from Corrson.
the other alternative would be to make your own, like true DIY style! .

Of course, there are other cheaper alternatives for which i suggest you do a little snooping around on diyaudio.com and u'll have more info than you can deal with.

hope that helps.

Regards,
Savyasaachi

Dear Savyasaachi,

Never mind abt your delay, as long as you are diligently providing valuable inputs / replies to queries posted by forum members.

I am having carpet in my listening room, reason going for spikes. I have made speakers stands for my wharfedale 9.2 with help of my Carpenter. (He has used heavy steel plate abt 4 kg in each stand covered by plywood at base) Those stands have come out pretty good, only things missing are spike to anchor them in my carpet.

I have also noticed changed in bass response of my speakers due to stand. My question is will spikes still make difference? ( to better off course)

I have roamed almost whole of Lamington rd in Mumbai this Saturday but could not find single metal spike there.

That’s why planning to place order on Corrson by post.

Regards

Dear Khanmadari,
well, in a nutshell ,u use the spikes or stands to decouple the baffle from the floor.

Me thinks its best if you could get a spike from Corrson. They are good VFM.
though i would check whether they are made from Aluminum or MS or any other material before purchasing.
If it is made from MS then check for rust proofing.
I personally prefer Aluminium.

Regards,
Savyasaachi

P.S guys will soon be getting Scan Speak midrange drivers for my active 3 way speakers. 92$ a pop.

Hi Sachi,

Nice to have you back Does decoupling from the floor make a major difference to the sound in your experience. Say I found it funny when you told Khanmadari that the spikes would prevent his speakers from bouncing around

Only boombox speakers could do that not 5kg + audiophile ones Aluminium should sound better than steel according to Doug Blackburn. If the spikes are of adjustable height, then they can be used to alter the height of the sound field. Are such spikes available?