Indian Brand 5.1 setup

Cadence could never be used.
It does not make a dedicated centre speaker.
Besides under 100 K the cadence gear will not come.
Sub woofer would still have to be from another company.

For 100 K the options may be :-

25 to 30 K for AV Receiver
5 to 10 K for DVD Player

So you have 60 to 70 K for speakers.

Def Tech is a niceoption to consider in that price.
Polk Audio is another option to consider.

I will give a couple of more siggestions later.

Wharfedale Diamond 9 range!

hi tim,

mordaunt short has some nice bookshelves ms 902i. will make a good surround package. 12.5 k for the pair. available in koramangala at audio planet, well within your budget. monitor audio bronze range. diamond range as mentioned by shahrukh. profx has kef which might make a good option too.

regards

oops have re-read your post and you specify indian brand. any reason why only indian? india poised and all that huh?

:-) nope stevie, just that the after sales service and availability of parts wud be much better for Indian Brands. Plus I wud have the good feeling that I am spending the money on the actual product, rather than VAT, TAX, and other hidden charges.

Touche Juggy!

Thats excatly why I am in for Indian Brands. The after-sales service.

Thanks Bhagwan, Shahrukh, and Stevieboy. But arent they all foreign brands?

Tim_Choco schrieb:

Thanks Bhagwan, Shahrukh, and Stevieboy. But arent they all foreign brands?

Sorry!

Try Lithos!

Thanks Shahrukh. Cud you guide me to the Lithos Dealer in Bangalore?

Dunno if they have dealers in Bangalore. They're basically Mumbai based.

juggy_25 schrieb:

:-) nope stevie, just that the after sales service and availability of parts wud be much better for Indian Brands.

i don't have experience in after sales in that area so i won't comment. i think it's more that the guy you buy it from has to be there for you when you need him.

tim, no offence, but isn't putting after sales as a first priority a little weird when choosing a system? shouldn't you check out the sound and then see if your dealer will give you written warranty or whatever? also do factor in that speakers dont break down that much. so you could try a foreign brand. the receiver and dvd player would be more susceptible to throwing tantrums. even then, am sure the dealer would repair/ service it for you. do think about it.

Tim_Choco schrieb:

Thanks Shahrukh. Cud you guide me to the Lithos Dealer in Bangalore?

http://www.lithosindia.com/

Do yourself a favor and go visit Arasu's place.

Probably one of the best HT setups(in terms of sound quality) i have seen among commercial establishments in Bangalore.
A true Indian brand in every sense.

AAfter sales and support is a given.
I would personally vouch for him and his products.

Currently i am getting some speakers installed for my dad's car from him.
using his own speakers and not some crappy sony or pioneer.
Also getting my DIY DAC finished up with him.
Getting a headphone amp done too.
He will ship it to me once it is done.

Mail him at arasukumar at yahoo dot com

Cheers,
Saachi

Hi !

Lyrita Audio
Enbee
Sonodyne
ProFx

After-sales service - it is more of individual trait of a given vendor/distributor. Buying Indian brand is no guarantee.

Enbee has shut down-old age-Nishi Nakra just does ASS/Repairs from his Noida house now.
I dont think Viren is manufacturing 5.1's as such( there is no .1-the SW in his range) but he could make one for you easily enough-his stuff is Hi quality.
The other two- I personally dont care for their tonal/sonic quality too much.
I it has to be Indian, I'd say, get in touch with Viren.
Kamal

HAve been wanting to listen to Viren's stuff for some time now.
Will do so when i come down to India.

Don't care for Sonodyne and never heard of Enbee...I personally feel that Sonodyne products are a sham..
I have witnessed Sonodyne staff buying speaker cables from SP road for 20 bucks a meter and selling the same in their shop for a very tidy profit claming them to be imported.
Even the tweeters are not flush mounted.
Rumors are that they have switched from Peerless india drivers to Iwai drivers.





best advice that i can give you is..
If you are in Bangalore,take some time off on a weekend and visit Arasu and then decide for yourself.

And yes, I am pretty prejudiced towards his products.

Cheers,
Saachi

p.s all statements are IMHO of course.

Yes, I will check out Arasu and Lyrita

Saachi, that tiny info completely cut off Sonodyne from my list. Thanks.
Saachi, is Arasu a one-stop shop? I mean, does he deal with speakers, sub and amps too?

What exactly does "flush mounted" tweeters mean?

Stevieboy, its just the unpredictable power surges and power cuts that I am scared could damage the system.

If its an Indian brand, its completely made here, so any damage control can be locally done. (its just my hunch, please correct me if I am wrong)
If its a foreign brand, the parts have to be imported, or, if available, would cost a fortune.
Besides, I want to go in for a good system, becos financially, I am not in a position to upgrade regularly.

Thanks for all the responses. You guys are cool, even a noob like me feels at home!

Tim_Choco schrieb:

Yes, I will check out Arasu and Lyrita Saachi, that tiny info completely cut off Sonodyne from my list. Thanks. Saachi, is Arasu a one-stop shop? I mean, does he deal with speakers, sub and amps too? What exactly does "flush mounted" tweeters mean? Stevieboy, its just the unpredictable power surges and power cuts that I am scared could damage the system. If its an Indian brand, its completely made here, so any damage control can be locally done. (its just my hunch, please correct me if I am wrong) If its a foreign brand, the parts have to be imported, or, if available, would cost a fortune. Besides, I want to go in for a good system, becos financially, I am not in a position to upgrade regularly. Thanks for all the responses. You guys are cool, even a noob like me feels at home! :)

Hello,

Yes!
Arasu's place is a one stop shop.
Other than the DVD player he manufaturers speakers(stereo as well as HT), amps(integrated and power), preamps, Subwoofers and Acoustics . He also deals in Optoma projectors.


'Flush mounted' means, the driver faceplates and the cabinet's front baffle(layman speak would be front panel of the speaker) are on the same plane(level), like it is one continous piece.
How the speakers are placed makes a considerable difference on the dispersion pattern of the speaker driver.

As Doctorji says, gaurantee on products is more of a personal trait.
Some honor the warranties on their products and most don't.

Your theory on going all out or going piecemeal is a subjective and of course a financial one as you rightfully mention.
Some like to do it step by step and some want to go the whole nine yards on the first go.

Its nice to see more people joing the tribe.


Saachi

I bought my KEF floorstanders in Delhi about 3 years ago. Soon after the purchase I discovered there was a problem with the tweeter in one of the speakers. My local vendor kindly coordinated with the ProFx. They got the speaker picked up, replaced the tweeter at Banglore and delivered it back to me in Delhi. Although it took about 2-3 weeks but the job was comlpeted to my satisfaction and with me having to pay anything or go through any trouble.

So, don't be bothered so much about the after-sales too much. If you are based in Banglore, then buying imported brands from ProFx should be a very safe & good option. Do take a look at the KEF & Polk Audio range.

SDhawan schrieb:

I bought my KEF floorstanders in Delhi about 3 years ago. Soon after the purchase I discovered there was a problem with the tweeter in one of the speakers. My local vendor kindly coordinated with the ProFx. They got the speaker picked up, replaced the tweeter at Banglore and delivered it back to me in Delhi. Although it took about 2-3 weeks but the job was comlpeted to my satisfaction and with me having to pay anything or go through any trouble. So, don't be bothered so much about the after-sales too much. If you are based in Banglore, then buying imported brands from ProFx should be a very safe & good option. Do take a look at the KEF & Polk Audio range.

Doctorji,
Kef is worth a listen but i would stay away from the lower end polk audio(monitor series) equipment. Probably the worst build quality i have come across in an imported brand which was at one time regarded highly.
Look at the Polk Audio Rti(and beyond)series else look elsewhere.

Saachi

you'll need an isolation transformer or/ and a servo stabilizer to protect your equipment. your receiver will more likely go due to power problems, not the speakers. you could do a post asking for opinions on this. siva in banashankari also does speakers. a little expensive in my opinion. pm me if you want his number.

There are multiple reccommendations on this thread...most of them are decent except Polk IMO. As Sachi says if you have to look at Polk then look at their RTI series and beyond.
For 100k budget you have and given the size of your room, its a critical situation. On one hand you have multiple brands and models to consider on the other hand your room size is too small to accomodate many of the choices. If its for HT, the most critical thing to consider first is the sub-woofer. In a HT where most audible sounds are generated from the Center speakers and the Sub-woofer, you need to be focussing in selecting them first. Rest of the things could fall in place automatically.

Unfortunately, I cant think of any Indian brand which makes high-quality musical subs...
Hence I would somehow tend to press you to atleast stick to a imported high quality sub (I will list my reccomendations at the end). If its the best sound from the HT you are looking at, then try to get the best sub-woofer possible in your budget IMO. Next, for the center channel, you definitely have to stick to the center channel of the brand from which you buy your other four channels (for closest timbre match).

As for the AVR, as long as you are looking at entry level AVRs, dont expect any huge difference between a 20k and a 30k AVR...most differences lie additional features which are may or may not be useful..therefore pretty subjective, but for sound they wont do any justice to the additional 10k that you spend again IMO, hence I would reccomend not to spend much on AVR.

Now for the setups I have in mind:
Setup 1:
Quad L Sub-woofer - 55k
Sonodyne AVR-300 - 17k
Sondyne Genie I speakers (5 nos) - 16k
Philips DVD Player - 5k
Total: 93k

Setup 2:
Quad L Sub-woofer - 55k
Sonodyne AVR-300 - 17k
Sondyne Genie II speakers (5 nos) - 25k
Philips DVD Player - 5k
Total: 102k

Setup 3:
Lithos Terra 150 Sub or Deftech Sub (Sachi could you mention the model number you have) : 22k
Sonodyne AVR-300: 17k
Arasu's Bookshelf speakers for the fronts and the rears : 36k
Arasus Center Speaker : 15k approx (not sure)
Philips DVDP : 5k
Total: 95k


Among the three, I would go for setup 2.
Setup 3 is a good option if you are totally not convinced to spend big buck on a sub.
All throughout I have tried to stick to Indian brands only except Quad.
Corrson is another Indian company, but its hard to fit in within 100k hence I didnt mention them. Brands like Lyrita and Pulz are totally into Stereo hence no HT option there.

Now, all throughout I have stuck to Sonodyne reciever AVR-300, why!!! I know there are some negative comments about Sonodyne in this thread, and also I have noticed that you immediately made up your mind to stay away from them, but still, I have it in my list because IMO, you need to listen to a product even if you wanna reject them. Sonodyne doesnt make everything top class, but there are some products that they do better than most others at a price point. AVR-300 is one of them IMO. I have heard them 8-10 times over a period of time, and everytime they impress me. Their surround processing is awesome and they also sound very crisp without getting bright. To me no AVR below 35k (with papers) beats this guy when it comes to HT Sound. There could be others who may carry more features, but then you have to decide if its worth the extra money and worth the compromise in sound. I write all this because I want you to hear them once with an open mind and with some time to spare.

The another product that I love from sonodyne stable are the Genie Satts, again awesome sound and build for the money. There are competitors but they are all imported counter parts and you have ruled them out in your posting hence no mention. Buddy, go and listen to them, and let us know your first hand comments and pleeeese try to pin point on the product that you want to buy while you are auditioning rather than forming a general opinion. I like Genie 2 more than Genie 1 because it has a fuller sound and fills the room much better. Hence my take is on Setup 2.

Regarding the Quad L sub, yes its much more expensive than all others in the list, but it also brings about that much better quality sound. Its not a overkill (though it may look like), you will actually enjoy a much more accurate HT in the process and tomorrow if you want to setup a stereo, just go ahead with a quality Bookshelf speaker and a good Stereo amp, the sub will take care of the Bass like none other. Since your room is small so I dont have the inclination to reccomend a Floorstander, more often than not, they will boom without adding much to the overall sound and they would be expensive as well.

The deftech sub that i have is the Prosub 100TL(think it is 28k).
Very good sub no doubt about it.

I still don't agree with you Abhi.
I have heard the Sonodyne AVR more than a couple of times and i always left the place with a 'what the hell are they selling?' look on my face.

I felt vindicated after taking apart a sonodyne speaker. The lack of minimum quality parts for the crossover.
Iron cores and electrolytic capacitors..Blashpemy i tell you!!

And btw, i also heard the processor and six channel combo, an utter waste of a good 40 grand i tell you.
All IMHO of course.

While it is true that most of the low freq signal filtered down to the sub it would do you good to have excelent speakers all round.
YOu have no idea what a sub for the center and especially for the surrounds can do to a system.
Alternatively if you have enough amplification and full range speaerks all round, you can probably eliminate the sub and route the bass to the front channels.


I think it is insane to spend 55k on a sub out of a budget of 1 lakh for a HT.
A subwoofer makes or breaks a HT alright, but not to the extent that would prompt you to blow well over 50% of your budget on it.
U will end up compromising on the rest of the channels.
Remember that not all movies will have earth shattering bass notes throughout the movie. People do talk in movies you know.

I would go with choice 3 too but with a different AVR and either Arasu's sub or the Deftech Prosub 100Tl.
Now this would be a kick ass system.
I really do love and miss my Deftech sub..

I will have to admit though that i have not heard the genie speaker range from Sonodyne.

So it is definietly something you might want to look into as personal tastes vary a lot.
Try to audition with a Demo DVD(preferably DTS), region 1 DVD to extract maximum from a system that you audition.

Again with respect to Lithos, i can say nothing. Give it shot if you can listen to it.

I make no attempt to cover my tilt towards Arasu's products.
I have heard his speakers for the past year and have found them to be excellent given the competition in the same price range and well beyond in some areas.

Saachi

Alternatively if you have enough amplification and full range speaerks all round, you can probably eliminate the sub and route the bass to the front channels.

Ok buddy...there are two things I would like to bring in here.

1. When I am talking about AVR-300, I realized its capabilities only when I heard them with Genie 1/2 speakers, hence I have put them together in my list.
Even if you have some reservations agains Sonodyne products, if does not pertain to the products that I have mentioned then I suppose its all about the sound which Tim_choco himself has to decide on, I have heard them and liked them a lot, hence reccommended them.

2. Now regarding importance of having full range speakers all around, the most critical aspect of this approach is "Proper and quality amplification"....if you cant provide that to all 5 channels then its not worth the money being spent. How do you plan to accomodate 5 channels of quality amplification along with quality speakers and also a quality Surround processor ???????
Dont even think of eliminating the sub from the equation because thats a totally different approach which needs to be validated by the buyer in his own room to see if he is okay without a sub which in itself is an unconventional approach to HT.

Now, as I had guessed earlier that 55k for the sub may look like an overkill, but I suppose you cant just rule it out because it takes 55% share of the budget. In a HT, the biggest constraint is, you cant select different make and priced speakers for different channels, so if you plan to improve the fronts, more often than not you need to improve the center and the rears as well. If the overall sound doesnt improve proportionately you are better off not going for the upgrade. Hence I upgraded the component which will bring in maximum improvement in quality. Since most entry level (upto 30k) subs compromise on bass QUALITY and musicality, going a level further up would definitely bring in a lot of quality to the lows which normally would have got compromised (even with a Deftech, which is better than Arasu's sub IMO). On the other hand saving cost on sub-woofer and using it for other speakers does not guarantee any big difference because the amplification is an entry level AVR. Hence I went with Option 2

I have another option in mind:
Marantz AVR-4600 : 25k
Deftech sub: 28k
Arasu's 5 speakers: 50k
Philips DVDP: 5k
Total: 108k

In any case I would still recommend the setup 2 to Tim_choco because I have heard them them perform (though with a Sonodyne sub) and liked them a lot. It would be great if Tim is ready to take the pain and audition these products before taking a plunge.

abhi.pani schrieb:

Alternatively if you have enough amplification and full range speaerks all round, you can probably eliminate the sub and route the bass to the front channels. Ok buddy...there are two things I would like to bring in here. 1. When I am talking about AVR-300, I realized its capabilities only when I heard them with Genie 1/2 speakers, hence I have put them together in my list. Even if you have some reservations agains Sonodyne products, if does not pertain to the products that I have mentioned then I suppose its all about the sound which Tim_choco himself has to decide on, I have heard them and liked them a lot, hence reccommended them. 2. Now regarding importance of having full range speakers all around, the most critical aspect of this approach is "Proper and quality amplification"....if you cant provide that to all 5 channels then its not worth the money being spent. How do you plan to accomodate 5 channels of quality amplification along with quality speakers and also a quality Surround processor ??????? Dont even think of eliminating the sub from the equation because thats a totally different approach which needs to be validated by the buyer in his own room to see if he is okay without a sub which in itself is an unconventional approach to HT. Now, as I had guessed earlier that 55k for the sub may look like an overkill, but I suppose you cant just rule it out because it takes 55% share of the budget. In a HT, the biggest constraint is, you cant select different make and priced speakers for different channels, so if you plan to improve the fronts, more often than not you need to improve the center and the rears as well. If the overall sound doesnt improve proportionately you are better off not going for the upgrade. Hence I upgraded the component which will bring in maximum improvement in quality. Since most entry level (upto 30k) subs compromise on bass QUALITY and musicality, going a level further up would definitely bring in a lot of quality to the lows which normally would have got compromised (even with a Deftech, which is better than Arasu's sub IMO). On the other hand saving cost on sub-woofer and using it for other speakers does not guarantee any big difference because the amplification is an entry level AVR. Hence I went with Option 2 I have another option in mind: Marantz AVR-4600 : 25k Deftech sub: 28k Arasu's 5 speakers: 50k Philips DVDP: 5k Total: 108k In any case I would still recommend the setup 2 to Tim_choco because I have heard them them perform (though with a Sonodyne sub) and liked them a lot. It would be great if Tim is ready to take the pain and audition these products before taking a plunge.

Yes.you are right.
Forget what i said.

Tim,

If you want to listen to my sub(Defnitive Technology Prosub 100TL) and check out my HT lemme know.

Will ask my dad to audition it for you. He would be more than happy to show the HT system for you.

Cheers,
Saachi

That was a very informative discussion. Thanks Abhi and Saachi.

I understand both your views and will check both the systems.

Saachi, IYHO which Sub would you choose - Arasu's Sub or the Def Tech? (with Fronts, Rears and Center being Arasu's)

Will Floorstanders be an overkill for a 140 square feet room? How is Arasu's Floorstanders?

The DVDP doesnt come in my 1L budget. I have a Philips 727K DVDP, I think that would do.

Will Floorstanders be an overkill for a 140 square feet room?

Buddy Tim, the point is, to take advantage of a floorstander you need good quality amplification which is not possible with an entry level AVR. Whatever little enhancement in sound you get is not worth the money that you spend on the floorstanders in such a situation. If you are looking at floors from an Indian brand then you can check out Corrson speakers.

Corrson MS-301 fronts: 33k (kit version)
Corrson Monitor series fronts : 18k (not sure)
Corrson MS-101 Bookshelf rears : Not sure of the price.
Sub :20k

The point here is whether so many large sized speakers in a 140sqft room sound comfortable and well seperated ????
I doubt....
Well, all I can suggest at this point is to listen to all the combos and then decide what suits you best...mind you, auditioning is free, hence all it takes is some of your time, if you are ready to spare them.

Tim_Choco schrieb:

That was a very informative discussion. Thanks Abhi and Saachi. I understand both your views and will check both the systems. Saachi, IYHO which Sub would you choose - Arasu's Sub or the Def Tech? (with Fronts, Rears and Center being Arasu's) Will Floorstanders be an overkill for a 140 square feet room? How is Arasu's Floorstanders? The DVDP doesnt come in my 1L budget. I have a Philips 727K DVDP, I think that would do.

Tim,

I am a huge movie buff. Music and movies get equal attention from me.

Now, while i will agree with Abhi on the point that you need decent amplification to drive floorstanders, it is a misconception to believe that bookshelves can be driven easier.
I would have thought Abhi would know this by now
considering that he has one such bookshelf that really needs a cracker of an amp(which he has) to actually sound good.

Making floorstanders work in a 140 sq ft room is not impossible and not an expensive task eitehr. But then again the extra trouble to get it working is hardy worth it and the gains are very subjective.

Regarding Arasu's Laya Acoustics entry level floorstanders, well i can tell you that they are very good for HT and double back as a nice stereo set (much much better than my wharfedale Diamond 8.4). Though the mids are a bit recessed on some songs.
Last i spoke to himn about it, he said that he is working to improve the speaker.

But yeah, for a 140 sq ft bookshelves would be adequate.
Going for floorstanders would not be viable in your case and i would not recommend them to you.

I particularly like a bookshelf model in Arasu's Laya Acoustics(called 502 because it uses 5.25 inch drivers with a Vifa tweeter in an MTM configuration ) which is simply the best among what i have heard in the 30k range(regarding pricing of his speakers, you will need to contact him). They woulkd be my recommendation for your HT.
5 pieces of 502s for your 5 channels would be kick ass.

That way timbre matching is achieved which is again a factor in achieving channel seperation.


Abhi, as you point out, Channel seperation is paramount not just in a stereo but more so in a HT.
And this comes down to so many variables such as acoustics of the room, processor, amplification, speakers themselves and most importantly the source material.
That is why Tim, i insist that you audition with a region 1 DTS demo disc.

The phillips processors(in built in your DVDP if it supports analog 5.1 out) are excellent, at least for the price they sell.
They are worth it.

Regarding the subwoofer, considering your room size i would recommend the Def Tech.
Don't let its dimunitive size fool you.
Bloody thing is a monster and would be perfect for your HT.
'Te Audio People' in Madras sell them for 28k.
Out of curiosity, after i asked them for a lower price, they offered to sell it for 25k.
You could negotiate for a lower price.
I say look no further for the sub. Go with the Def Tech.

The only other sub i came across was in a HT setup which impressed me was in The Audio People place where they had a THX Klipsch 5.2 setup.
2 12 inch subs and i was in heaven.
Cost though for the setup was lets say, a fair amount more tahn what you have marked out.


Do audition all possible systems and the one you like the most , keep as reference and try to compare different systems based on it.

Places i would recommend you visit in Bangalore for HT:-

1>Decibel-Jamo showroom(both on mission road and the garuda mall)
2>Wharfedale showroom
3>Acoustic Energy showroom(forget the name of the dealership, owned by Venkatesh i think)
4<Audio Planet, Kormangala
5>Music Ranch, Jayanagar
6>Onkyo showroom, Cunningham Road
7>JBL, Infinity showroom, Lavelle road(very very nice,but expensive IMHO)
8>Laya Acoustics(Arasu's place)- New BEL road
9> And of course you are welcome to drop into my place to check out the Def Tech sub(AFAIK you will not be able to audition this in Bangalore)


A few words on the system i have spent most time with watching many enjoyable movies, my HT.
I like my HT but they lack proper amplification and channel seperation is adequate at best.
Will be upgrading it to a seperates system, with Laya Acoustics amplifers for all channels(except for sub, gonna keep the Def Tech ) and a Parasound Halo C2 processor(or an Outlaw processor if funds are limited).

My final and humble recommendation considering you are looking for a complete Indian brand would be:

DVDP-Your exsisting one
Fronts- 1 pair of Laya Acoustics 502
Center- 1 Laya Acoustics 502
Surrounds- 1 pair of Laya Acoustics 502(or even the 501 would be great)
Sub-Defnititve Technology Prosub 100TL


Cheers,
Saachi

For all you HT buffs I have a query.

Can one eliminate the centre channel speaker and turn the TV volume to adequate levels to compensate ? After all, the centre channel reproduces only vocals and all TV internal speakers will do a good job at that.

Behram.

tim-choco

With apologies to indian brands (let it be arasu or mukherjee). Do they have any R&D lab? Is it easy to dispose off, in case you want to? Is it cheap or vfm? Do they provide service manuals? What will happen, if they close their shop or die? Shall I stick to reputed brands? Points to ponder.

Behram schrieb:

For all you HT buffs I have a query. Can one eliminate the centre channel speaker and turn the TV volume to adequate levels to compensate ? After all, the centre channel reproduces only vocals and all TV internal speakers will do a good job at that. Behram.

This a misconception.
I had the same outlook too when i began.

There is a lot more information in the center channel than just vocals.i Say go for a fullrange speaker or a subwoofer just for the center and listen to the difference.

Regarding using TV speakers for the center channel..
Theoritically it could be done assuming of course that you have a 5.1 analog output from the DVD player.
YOu could connect the center channel output to the TV audio input(with the video signal from the DVD player connected to the corresponding input on the TV)

But this is hardly the solution you should be looking at.

tim-choco With apologies to indian brands (let it be arasu or mukherjee). Do they have any R&D lab? Is it easy to dispose off, in case you want to? Is it cheap or vfm? Do they provide service manuals? What will happen, if they close their shop or die? Shall I stick to reputed brands? Points to ponder.

Very valid points.

Let me try to address it in this was.
Regarding the resaerch labs.
It does not take much to build quality speakers that can beat the crap out of commercial equipment(take a look at diyaudio.com or headfi.com),upto a price point that is. Because , beyond a price point it becomes more of a pissing contest(read that as bragging) than actual benefits.
But yeah, Arasu has a R&D room.

Is it easy to dispose off, in case you want to? Is it cheap or vfm?

If the product is of good quality, then you should have no prolem in letting it go.
And can oyu please define cheap??i really can't understand what you mean by cheap?

Do you mean, is it cheaper than imported brands?

just because somethingis built in house i don't see why it should automatically be cheap..
But, with regard to VFM, i guess you would realise it only if you went and tried out the product. In this case, go get an audition.

Do they provide service manuals?

Hmm...never asked Arasu this.
But my argument to this would be that the reason why big brands give you service manuals is that they don't have technical people to deal with the problem immediately. The guys who designed or built them are not on the same continent. The guy who would repair it woudl be from some other country.

This does not arise when the product is domestic made.
The concerned person is a call away or even would probably come over and check it out onsite if the problem is serioious.
This is a huge plus IMHO.

What will happen, if they close their shop or die?[/

This is a problem not with just Indian companies.
It si a problem with any company.
Or even if the company does go on, there are numerous instances where the so called big brand corporation simply stops suppporting their older models and products.
After all, that's why they do have and we as customers look for an R&D division right?


Saachi

Tim_Choco schrieb:

Saachi, that tiny info completely cut off Sonodyne from my list. Thanks.

I wouldnt conclude so fast... Ultimately its what satisfies you that counts, so I suggest you to sincerely take a look at each brand discussed and remove it from the list based on your experience from actual listening.

I wouldnt conclude so fast... Ultimately its what satisfies you that counts, so I suggest you to sincerely take a look at each brand discussed and remove it from the list based on your experience from actual listening.

Totaly agree Kvish.
Hence my comment that he give everything a shot and a list of the places he should visit.

Savyasaachi schrieb:

I will have to admit though that i have not heard the genie speaker range from Sonodyne. So it is definietly something you might want to look into as personal tastes vary a lot. Try to audition with a Demo DVD(preferably DTS), region 1 DVD to extract maximum from a system that you audition. Again with respect to Lithos, i can say nothing. Give it shot if you can listen to it. I make no attempt to cover my tilt towards Arasu's products. I have heard his speakers for the past year and have found them to be excellent given the competition in the same price range and well beyond in some areas.

All my statements are subject to the disclaimer that they are based on my own personal experience, in comaprison with my system and IMHO of course.

Saachi

p.s: Guess it is about time that I up a disclaimer in my signature.

hi,

Any product of any manufacturer - a reputed firm/an individual is ok, if u r satisfied with its performance. When you desire to change, it will be difficult to dispose off siva's or mukherjee's products then a nad/marantz/rotel/sonodyne. It is very simple.

Cheap means - throw away price.

R&D - I meant international standards not of the alipoor market dada type.

kallu schrieb:

When you desire to change, it will be difficult to dispose off siva's or mukherjee's products then a nad/marantz/rotel/sonodyne. It is very simple.

Isn't Sonodyne Mukherjee's product??

Now, while i will agree with Abhi on the point that you need decent amplification to drive floorstanders, it is a misconception to believe that bookshelves can be driven easier. I would have thought Abhi would know this by now considering that he has one such bookshelf that really needs a cracker of an amp(which he has) to actually sound good.

Sachi,
While we are on the same plane, we dont seem to meet often.
Now when I recommended bookshelves over floorstander, it was not because bookshelves are easier to drive but because they are cheaper to acquire. While you can comfortably get a decent quality BS for 15-18k, you cant think of a similar quality Floors below 30-35k. Now that is something I dont find worth recommending in a room size of 14 x 10 and a budget of 1 Lac (both ways).

kvish schrieb:

Tim_Choco schrieb: Saachi, that tiny info completely cut off Sonodyne from my list. Thanks. I wouldnt conclude so fast... Ultimately its what satisfies you that counts, so I suggest you to sincerely take a look at each brand discussed and remove it from the list based on your experience from actual listening.

A very point which struck my mind as soon as I read "that tiny info completely cut off Sonodyne from my list." but then it can happen to anyone hence

I will audition Arasu's speakers.
And if I go for Bookshelves, I will need stands. 4 stands will cost atleast 20,000 bucks, right? If I go the Murthy way....

Abhi seems to be a huge fan of Sonodyne and Saachi of Arasu's products. I will check out both the products.

and for amp, should I go for integrated or separates?

Dear Tim,

It would help you to know that in HT (movies) almost 60-70% audio / sound comes from the Center channel, about 20-25% from the fronts, 5-10% from the rears and the sub just adds the "thumps & thuds" which are meant less for your ears and more for the other end of your body

Plan your investment keeping this in mind.

In my view when you go to buy HT system you should listen to your mind; but when you buy HiFi 2-Channel system for pure music - listen to your heart

Abhi seems to be a huge fan of Sonodyne and Saachi of Arasu's products. I will check out both the products.

Buddy Tim, Sonodyne is not a brand to be a fan of...they are an entry level hifi brand with some decent products. The reason I recommend them is just because there are few products from Sonodyne stable which have impressed me multiple times and also their competitors (imported counterparts) just didnt impress me as much (except Marantz).

Anyway, you have taken a very good decission in the end to listen to as many products as possible, which will definitely make a difference to your final selection.

and for amp, should I go for integrated or separates?

Depends !!
There are multiple criterias to evaluate before you can decide upon this.

1. Requirement: Do you really need separates or you are well off with an AVR !! If you have high quality speakers that demands and can take advantage of separates then you can think of them else you are better off with a more simplistic approach of an AVR.

2. Affordability: Can you afford separates ? You are talking about 5 channel of separate amplification along with good quality speakers, a quality sub and a dolby/dts processor. Will that be possible in 1 lac

3. Sound Quality: Are you able appreciate the difference between separates and Integrated systems ? It depends on many things, whether your room size and room acoustics support the equipments of your choice, does the sound inyour room justify the price you have paid etc etc..

Things will get simpler once you start narrowing down on equipments. Let us know about your comments once you have heard them.

abhi.pani schrieb:

Now, while i will agree with Abhi on the point that you need decent amplification to drive floorstanders, it is a misconception to believe that bookshelves can be driven easier. I would have thought Abhi would know this by now considering that he has one such bookshelf that really needs a cracker of an amp(which he has) to actually sound good. Sachi, While we are on the same plane, we dont seem to meet often. Now when I recommended bookshelves over floorstander, it was not because bookshelves are easier to drive but because they are cheaper to acquire. While you can comfortably get a decent quality BS for 15-18k, you cant think of a similar quality Floors below 30-35k. Now that is something I dont find worth recommending in a room size of 14 x 10 and a budget of 1 Lac (both ways).

I agree with you on that.
Let me try to say this without giving the wrong impression. But, I think I remmeber telling you the same when you were buying your speakers.

I replied to you when you said this.

Buddy Tim, the point is, to take advantage of a floorstander you need good quality amplification which is not possible with an entry level AVR.

kallu schrieb:

hi, Any product of any manufacturer - a reputed firm/an individual is ok, if u r satisfied with its performance. When you desire to change, it will be difficult to dispose off siva's or mukherjee's products then a nad/marantz/rotel/sonodyne. It is very simple. Cheap means - throw away price. R&D - I meant international standards not of the alipoor market dada type.

I would probably agree with you on the first point.
But then again a company becomes reputed only after people try out their products, at least even go evaluate them before buyuing.

I feel it is downright gross of you to think of throw away prices.
now why should it be so.
Just because it is Indian does it need to be throw away price.

For you sir, i would suggest you go and listen to Indinan audio products and then talk about it.

With regard to R&D, the best of the audio brands have very small R&D units, sometimes even hinging on one person's ingenuity and depth in the art/science.

Listen before commenting is what i say.

Saachi

kvish wrote: Tim_Choco wrote: Saachi, that tiny info completely cut off Sonodyne from my list. Thanks. I wouldnt conclude so fast... Ultimately its what satisfies you that counts, so I suggest you to sincerely take a look at each brand discussed and remove it from the list based on your experience from actual listening. A very point which struck my mind as soon as I read "that tiny info completely cut off Sonodyne from my list." but then it can happen to anyone hence

Well they certainly are off my list.
Not my kind of sound by a long shot.
But then, that's jsut me.
One man's wine is another's poison.

I will audition Arasu's speakers. And if I go for Bookshelves, I will need stands. 4 stands will cost atleast 20,000 bucks, right? If I go the Murthy way.... Abhi seems to be a huge fan of Sonodyne and Saachi of Arasu's products. I will check out both the products. and for amp, should I go for integrated or separates?

True, you would need to go for stands and yes, at least 15k if you go the murthy way(i like his stands, even for the price taht they sell)

I thought i made sure taht there would be no ambiguity with the fact that i am a fan of Arasu's products.

Dear Tim, It would help you to know that in HT (movies) almost 60-70% audio / sound comes from the Center channel, about 20-25% from the fronts, 5-10% from the rears and the sub just adds the "thumps & thuds" which are meant less for your ears and more for the other end of your body Plan your investment keeping this in mind. In my view when you go to buy HT system you should listen to your mind; but when you buy HiFi 2-Channel system for pure music - listen to your heart

I wouldn't go so far as to give percentages but i would concur that most of the audio is delivered by the fronts and the center.
The surrounds are just that, they give the ambience.

With regard to the sub, it seems that theses days, engineers actually do have a seperate LFE input whihc makes a sub integral part of the system.

But, by setting the speakers to small(u set it to large only if your speaekrs and amplifiers are upto it) you add additional content from all the other five channels to it.

They would be the defining part of your HT which could make you smile or frown if you were watching say 'Bad Boys 2'.

In my view when you go to buy HT system you should listen to your mind; but when you buy HiFi 2-Channel system for pure music - listen to your heart

Probably the best advise/comment so far.

Not to gloat or anything but I think I remmeber telling you the same when you were buying your speakers.

Tell me what ?? Could you remind me about what you are saying ??

abhi.pani schrieb:

Tell me what ?? Could you remind me about what you are saying ??

I don't know if u remember our phone conversation about the Jamo 3 ways which sell for like the price of the diamoond 8.4s

Will be upgrading it to a seperates system, with Laya Acoustics amplifers for all channels(except for sub, gonna keep the Def Tech ) and a Parasound Halo C2 processor(or an Outlaw processor if funds are limited). Fronts- 1 pair of Laya Acoustics 502 Center- 1 Laya Acoustics 502 Surrounds- 1 pair of Laya Acoustics 502(or even the 501 would be great)

Saachi, Can the same speaker thats used for the Fronts and Rears be used as Center too? Howz the placement?

Besides Arasu's Amps, u are planning on a Parasound Halo C2 processor. What exactly does that function as?

Besides Arasu's Amps, u are planning on a Parasound Halo C2 processor. What exactly does that function as?

It does the surround processing, basically decoding Dolby Digital, DTS etc. Obviously you need them to enjoy Dolby or DTS sound . In a normal AVR the processor is built in but when you go for separates you would definitely need a external processor or if your DVDP has dolby, dts analog out (as Sachi said) you could use them to feed your power amp, you would also need a volume control I suppose (which DVDP wont have).. ...I dont have much idea about how good are the built in processors in a entry level DVDP, hence wont comment on that but IMO good surround processing is very very important for a good HT performance.
For an instance, I remember checking out two AVRs side-by-side at Modern world around 1.5 years ago, one was a very entry level Sony (12k, Sony had just introduced them to the market) and another was a Onkyo TX-Sr503 (24k,not sure of the model but it was an entry level from Onkyo), the speakers were all onkyo. Since I heard them back to back with the same video clipping (Behind Enemy lines, the famous blast scene) and same speakers, I could clearly hear the difference. There was no comparison between these two especially in the surround department..
The ambience created by the Onkyo was far far superior, the channel separation was far more discrete while giving a very realistic image and 3D sound. Sony sounded muddled as if sounds are not being transfered to the respective speakers at the pace it should be , especially when it processes a complicated sound (e.g the blast in the scene), there was a distinct lack in surround processing, you just dont hear the spatial imaging of the blast and its after-sounds in sony, instead it sounded like a big thud and a splash with all the sounds coming from all the speakers and hardly any distinctions between them. Whereas the Onkyo did it sooooooooo right in comparison....not only it created great ambience during silent scenes but it also gave a very composed picture of the blasts with all channels having a separate role to play and overall giving you a realistic 3D surround. I was not bothered much about the amplification here because both the AVRs were upto their duty and driving those Onkyo Sattelites were no big deal, but Surround processing made a huge huge difference and that easily separated Hifi from Low-fi.

wow...thanks abhi for explaining that very clearly.

So the amp kept constant, its the Processor we can upgrade later, right?

Sonodyne sure has an impressive website and they claim the Avant got the "NDTV Gadgets Guru Award of 2006"

So the amp kept constant, its the Processor we can upgrade later, right?

Yes, definitely...all you have to remember is to keep a separate budget for the processor. You cant neglect that factor....your DVDP might have in-built processor but relying on them in the long run is fatal because then you are not doing justice to the rest of your HT. To start with you can consider Sonodyne dedicated surround processor which is for 14k. Going forward you can consider the likes of Outlaw audio or Parasound when you have budget for them.

Sonodyne sure has an impressive website and they claim the Avant got the "NDTV Gadgets Guru Award of 2006"

Avant is more of a lifestyle product. You could check them out at the Sonodyne listening room at the Forum mall.