Denon PMA-700AE or Marantz PM7001 or NAD C320BEE for KEF iQ5

Dear vpriyan

I have not heard any of the listed components, so I am not responding to your poll.

Not a lack of interest... Just a Lack of knowledge

All the best

No offence meant but seriously I feel (looking at the plethora of posts you have done so far ) you are on a very confusing ride here. You will get a number of confusing answers to this post too. As always, people will suggest the amp “ of their preference “. All the amps are decent for the money. The only difference will be power and voicing. As always, you will have to listen and decide for yourself. KEF speakers are slightly ‘hot” for my taste, so I may go for an amp which has a slightly warm voicing. But that is me. You may actually like them with an hot amp.

Hi !

When I heard PM 7001 and C320BEE separately - I liked both of them very much and equally so. But when I did one to one comparision at the same place with same speakers (Boston - at a Marantz showroom) - NAD was clear winner - even the showroom staff could not hold back their appreciation.

I also found the older PM 7200 better & warmer sounding.

I don't really know about KEF iQ5 but my KEF Coda 90 do not sound HOT - in fact they sound quite balanced (earlier with NAD & now with Cyrus).

I agree with square wave - the more the choices the more the confusion. So don't get too confused, they are all good systems - just buy the one that you like (or blindly go with the majority opinion).

To add to the list, I would say look at the Sonodyne Pre-power, to my ears it sounded much better than both of the above choices. Its priced at 27k, a tremendous vfm, if you like the sound. They are warm yet with a slam. Try listening to them...

Vpriyan, do your own auditioning & make your choice.
Do you not trust your own ears?
Kamal

Of course I trust my own ears. the problem is since I am in chennai I can audition only Marantz, Denon

so regarding NAD or Sonodyne I can't have audition and I have to buy only based on your opinions and reviews..NO other way..

Thats why I am keen in asking suggestions from you people..

I liked Marantz CD 5001/PM 7001 combo but I am thinking whether NAD C521BEE/C320BEE will do better..Because while compared to Marantz I have got more number of good reviews regarding NAD C320BEE...

Now I have to decide whether to take the point

"Known Devil is better than Unknown Angel"

of course Marantz is not devil

I found Marantz CD5001 better that NAD C521 but on the amp front NAD C320BEE better than PM7001 (but that's MY opinion). I have personally used NAD C521, C320BEE and Marantz CD5001, AVR SR4500 - so I am not biased for or against any of them.

I have only heard NAD C320BEE of the three. I think NAD matches KEF well as it is very neutral.

I wonder how you are unable to listen to Sonodyne in Chennai ...I suppose they have a showroom there.

i heard a cayin valve amp compared with nad 320bee and it beat the nad hands down. viren does a take back if you dont like it scheme so you can try him out without going to delhi. nothing quite like the glow of a valve to warm the cockles of your heart since you're going to live with it for some time might be worth your while to check it out.

i heard a cayin valve amp compared with nad 320bee and it beat the nad hands down. viren does a take back if you dont like it scheme so you can try him out without going to delhi. nothing quite like the glow of a valve to warm the cockles of your heart since you're going to live with it for some time might be worth your while to check it out.

Yes, both these valve amps would easily beat a 320bee IMO.
The point is are you ready to go ahead with an extensive research or you want to pick up a decent amp from your nearest store and settle down ?

my thoughts:

1) most tube amps are ugly, they don't go with today's home decor
2) tube amps require maintenance and parts may not be easily available
3) difference may not be discernible on a setup like KEF iQ5
4) cayin valve amp is not on poll here, so why should we confuse someone who has already decided on his needs, he will fall into a vicious circle

Dear Koushik,
Could you shed some more light on this :

1) most tube amps are ugly, they don't go with today's home decor

How many tube amps have you seen and which are they ?

2) tube amps require maintenance and parts may not be easily available

We are talking about well reputed reliable brands which have a decent dealer network in India. They are almost as reliable as solid states.

3) difference may not be discernible on a setup like KEF iQ5

Oh...so you feel iQ5 will sound almost the same whether you feed in a solid state or a tube amplification...then why the hell do we even consider it to be hifi ??

4) cayin valve amp is not on poll here, so why should we confuse someone who has already decided on his needs, he will fall into a vicious circle

No one wishes to confuse vpriyan here...why should someone do so ??? Its just that people out here have experienced many more brands and models than vpriyan can do with his limited time and resources, hence its an implicit behaviour to express any genuine reccommendation, if one has in mind.
If it means vpriyan needs to research some more then its still better than buying something which is not all that good.

Koushik,
Finding the right gear is not a problem that an audiophile would want to get rid off as soon as possible by hook or crook. It has and demands a lot more importance than this.
If one realizes this then he would most probably end up with a better hifi...if that matters...

I do agree.
Vpriyan should definitely hear tubes with hi effy speakers-it will open his eyes & ears.

Tubes can look very elegant too e.g. Jadis has great looks.

My KEF Coda 90 sound very different now that they are driven by Cyrus when compared to what they sounded with NAD. I don't see any reason to believe why iQ5 would sound same with whatever amp.

Would you like to limit yourself to the poll choices if it were something like this:

Who do you want to be the next Prime Minister of India?
1. Laloo Prasad Yadav OR
2. Rabri Devi

Broaden your bandwidth, sir !!

Hi,

the KEFs are very easy to handle for almost every amp, so you should choose between all three device according to best looking and price.

The sound quality at this speaker should be equal.

Just my two cents

Dennis

If viren's valve amp is better than NAD then no need to buy KEF iQ5. I can go for Harmony 1 speakers...but the problem is

whether I will like the Lyrita integra/harmony 1 compared to NAD/KEF combo and since lyrita is only familiar within ourselves whereas NAD,KEF,Marantz are world renowned brands...

If 100 people say NAD is good and 10 people in the forum say Lyrita audio better than NAD then which point can be taken..

If 100 people say NAD is good and 10 people in the forum say Lyrita audio better than NAD then which point can be taken..

This is an audiophile group.

The other herd instinct. Even the other 100 dont say that the NAD etc are better, because they have not heard Viren's products....

That said, you will probably receive a better resale value for the International brand names..

I for one, will trust my ears... if I have not heard it... I wont buy.

See my sign off line.....

vpriyan schrieb:

If viren's valve amp is better than NAD then no need to buy KEF iQ5. I can go for Harmony 1 speakers...but the problem is whether I will like the Lyrita integra/harmony 1 compared to NAD/KEF combo and since lyrita is only familiar within ourselves whereas NAD,KEF,Marantz are world renowned brands... If 100 people say NAD is good and 10 people in the forum say Lyrita audio better than NAD then which point can be taken..

Hi !

I have heard both the NAD+KEF & the Lyrita. I would not say that one is better than the other. They are both very fine setups and very different from eachother.

I suggest that you audition both (without any prejudices) and then decide.

I suggest that you audition both (without any prejudices) and then decide.

Even if that means spending 5k and travelling to Delhi for a day...its worth it than spending 70-80k and buying a lesser system.

My 2 paise:

I own the KEF iQ5!

I run it with a Marantz AVR.

I have heard it with NAD electronics (542 + 352)

Sounds very crisp/clear with NAD!

Has a warmish sound with Marantz!!

The KEF is resolving enough to project audible differences even in cables!!

Awesome soundstage/image for the price!!

Vpriyan,

I can understand your dilemna. I also recommend that you listen to equipment before you buy.

Lyrita Audio's equipment may seem different from the norm - it's made to serve music. If you can wait awhile, and make it to Bangalore, you will be able to audition the Integre valve amp and the Harmony One speakers.

Stevieboy already has the Integre amp; I will be shipping the Harmony One speakers to him in a week's time. Please give him some time to set things up. Then I can request him to give you a personal audition.

Viren.

I think thats a good suggestion, both abhipani & Virens'
Give the Lyrita set up a listen.
Kamal

Thanks Viren for the info..

so let me listen to lyrita audio once and then decide..

I have to listen to tubes once...

most welcome vpriyan if you decide to listen to the tube gear. the integre does not drive the kef iq5s to high volumes. mine is 15 watts.

kousik the difference kousik is clearly apparent within seconds of listening. and one man's ugly is another man's beauty

Refex Pro-Acoustics (A division of Sharda Motors) is offering Marantz CD5001 for 13k and PM7001 for 25K. I think this is a good offer.

I am going for this with Kef iQ5 which is 34k and QED Quenex 2 interconnects (2.4k) and QED silver anniversary biwire (3k) so totally coming around 79k which I feel is good value for money.

Finally Iam choosing this setup as I am getting everything in Chennai.

Further Refex is giving 3 yrs warranty for Marantz CDP and AMP.

vpriyan schrieb:

Refex Pro-Acoustics (A division of Sharda Motors) is offering Marantz CD5001 for 13k and PM7001 for 25K. I think this is a good offer. I am going for this with Kef iQ5 which is 34k and QED Quenex 2 interconnects (2.4k) and QED silver anniversary biwire (3k) so totally coming around 79k which I feel is good value for money. Finally Iam choosing this setup as I am getting everything in Chennai. Further Refex is giving 3 yrs warranty for Marantz CDP and AMP.

Go ahead and enjoy your system. I think the deal is worth it. And 3 years' warranty is not bad.

Yes…good pricing and decent stuff. Go ahead. Enjoy.

Try out Viren’s system (valve amp plus harmony one) if you want a taste of very neutral system which can involve you better. It is a different approach. The Marantz plus Kef’s will give you a very “mainstream hifi” sound which is also a good thing if you like it.

ENJOY your new system. May it provide you many moons of pleasure.

Just the other day, I read an Agony Aunt write:

" Falling In Love Is Easy,
Staying In Love For Long Is MUCH more difficult...."

THAT Pretty much sums up the curse on all us audiophiles...

Amp_Nut schrieb:

" Falling In Love Is Easy, Staying In Love For Long Is MUCH more difficult...."

Touche!

Hi Vpriyan
You Said

"Refex Pro-Acoustics (A division of Sharda Motors) is offering Marantz CD5001 for 13k and PM7001 for 25K. I think this is a good offer".

The Refex Pro-Acoustics guys on G.N.Chetty Rd. T.Nagar Chennai sold a friend of mine the Marantz PM 7001 amp for Rs.20,000,(including VAT)just last week.
You should bargain a bit .There is a lady who is in charge of the shop,tell her you know someone who bought the amp from them for Rs.20,000.
Also ask for a new boxed amp.and CDP. They will try to give you the demo products telling you that you will have to wait for a few days for new pieces
Enjoy your new purchases.
Regards
Rajiv

Thanks Rajiv...


But Can anyone please tell me how to find whether its a Demo product or Fresh piece?

Waiting....

Further Marantz is rated at 70w/ch and KEF iQ5 sensitivity is 88db. Is this power enough to drive KEF?

vpriyan schrieb:

Waiting.... Further Marantz is rated at 70w/ch and KEF iQ5 sensitivity is 88db. Is this power enough to drive KEF?

this is a somewhat difficult question to answer because the nature of the KEF iQ5 x-over will dictate whether 70W/ch are sufficient to generate the SPL you are lookign for in your room.
The speaker can be 88dB efficient (which means that you get 88dB of SPL at 1m away from the speaker when you put 1W into it).
The question is: what does the speaker's impedance curve look like over frequency. If the impedance is not flat &, say, it dips to 2 Ohms at 100Hz, the 70W/ch Marantz will have to dump a sh** load of current into 2 Ohms (a near short) to generate an sort of bass SPL for you to hear. So, the 2nd question then is: can the 70W/ch Marantz provide such current into such a low impedance?

The matter will be moot if the impedance curve of the KEF is benign i.e. relatively flat & does not dip below 4 Ohms in the bass region.

Tossing the impedance curve of the KEF out of the window for a moment, from a SPL perspective we have the following:

88dB efficient with 1W input
subtract 9dB if you are listening at 3m (nearly 10')
subtract 1-2dB for furniture, curtains, bookshelves, etc
so, you have 77-78dB SPL at your listening chair(3m) w/ 1W input.
87-88dB SPL at 3m with 10W input
90-91dB SPL at 3m with 20W input
93-94dB SPL at 3m with 40W input
96-97dB SPL at 3m with 80W input --> at this point your MArantz will be clipping because it cannot put out 80W/ch.

So, you will get medium-low SPL in your room & do not have too much headroom for dynamics.
You will have to play the music softer so that you have some reserve for dynamics.

Overall, IMHO, a mediocre solution just looking at the numbers.
however, numbers do not always tell the truth. So, get the combination, if you can help it, and listen to it in your house/room. See if it works for you.
FWIW.

thanks bombawalla for the info

but the fact is my room size is 14X9 ft. and the speakers will be positioned with 3ft distance from the size wall for each speaker and will be closed to rear wall. I will be listening at a distance of 4ft to 5ft at the max.

so if I consider your calculation I guess 70watts will be fine. Am I right?

Anyways I can listen only low to medium volume.

vpriyan schrieb:

thanks bombawalla for the info but the fact is my room size is 14X9 ft. and the speakers will be positioned with 3ft distance from the size wall for each speaker and will be closed to rear wall. I will be listening at a distance of 4ft to 5ft at the max. so if I consider your calculation I guess 70watts will be fine. Am I right? Anyways I can listen only low to medium volume.

It's enough. I listen to them from 7 ft. I drive the KEFs with an AVR. Imaging improves dramatically with a lil distance from the rear wall.

Thanks

now my question is

Is there any way to find out whether its a Demo Product or fresh piece?

Check the base and spike threadings (in the socket as well) - There should be ZERO sings of wear and tear (scratches etc.). A new pair of iQ5s are spotless!!

The packaging is pretty good. Quite tedious to take out (leave alone putting back!) so the way it's packaged should be an instant givaway!

A word of caution! Out of the box new iQ5s sound horrible! So your first coupla weeks (2 months in my case) might be a little frustrating. The bright side is you'll know is new! (But that doesn't mean that it's a demo piece if it sounds good!)

Lemme know if u have doubts!

vpriyan schrieb:

thanks bombawalla for the info but the fact is my room size is 14X9 ft. and the speakers will be positioned with 3ft distance from the size wall for each speaker and will be closed to rear wall. I will be listening at a distance of 4ft to 5ft at the max. so if I consider your calculation I guess 70watts will be fine. Am I right? Anyways I can listen only low to medium volume.

yes, if you are going to be listening to them from a 4-5' distance then 70W/ch should be fine.

I wonder if the drivers will integrate at your listening position at 4-5'?? you just might end up getting a separate tweeter-separate woofer sound sitting so close to them.
Shahrukh's 7' sounds much more reasonable.
Anyway, your situation is what it is.....

FWIW: My system!

I've moved the speakers away from the rear walls for a better image! That damn TV still comes in the way!

Dear Shahrukh,

KEF recommends placing their speakers at least a foot away from the wall on either side.

I see that you need a better extension cord for your power supply - makes a lot of difference.

Either mass-load your source or place it on an inflated tube for isolating it from vibrations.

Hi Shahrukh,
Have you tried removing the TV and then listening to your setup ?? I guess you would be blown by the improvement in imaging..

Shahrukh schrieb:

FWIW: My system! I've moved the speakers away from the rear walls for a better image! That damn TV still comes in the way!

yikes!
all that (uncovered) marble flooring in front of the speaker!!
the speaker pushed back so far that it's barely off the back wall!
IMHO, the TV is a smaller issue for you. You could try to put a blanket over it just to see if it makes any difference or not.
Having a rack that is as open as you is a good thing - the rack reflects much less sound than if you had, say, an wood, enclosed cabinet.

To improve the sound, IF I WERE YOU, I would put a naamdah immediately in front of each speaker. Make the naamdah touch the speaker & extend in front of it. This will absorb the floor-borne reflections (that are reaching your ears with a time delay & smearing the sound).
Try the blanket over the TV during your listening session.
If you can pull the speaker a minimum of 3' from the back wall. The max I've found is 5' - beyond that the gains to be had are much smaller. However, 3' is a *must* - of course, if you family/girl-friend/wife/mother, etc allows you to.
FWIW.

Can anyone please tell me the difference between Continous power and dynamic power?

for eg: c320bee says the continous power is 50w@8ohm wheras the dynamic power is 110w.

which should be taken into consideration?

Hi Bombaywalla,
What is a Naamdah ? Even I want to do this. I have my speakers 1.5 feet into the room and two feet from the side walls. That is all I can do in my room. And I have rear firing ports

you could try pulling the speakers out only for listening sessions. i know it wont be possible permanent basis or too far out try the blanket/ sheet on the tv when listening. makes a big difference for me.

Woah!!

Dear Bombaywallah, Doc, Steve, Abhi,

I must mention here that the snap was taken when I first set the system up... out of the box. My bad. Currently it's like this:

1. The speakers are a foot and a half away from the rear wall. (Any more and they'll be quite close to me.) However, after listening I put it back to position you see it in now!

2. I have 2 huge floor cushions in front of the speakers when I listen.

3. Instead of blankets/sheets, I use two towels (doubled) on the screen... serves the purpose!

Doc, my powercord HAS changed. And my source currently has two fat Advertising Annuals on it and four blocks of pumice as feet!

I think an updated shot is in order. Maybe I'll take it tonight and put it up on Monday!

Oh yes, Abhi...

I have listened without the TV and the rack. Sounds excellent. Unfortunately, the wife didn't really care too much for it. I remember her saying something like "Look it's either me or... ". The TV/rack was back in 15 mins.

That said, she's usually quite accomodating and doesn't mind the cushions and stuff on the floor when I listen.