Information needed regarding NAD amp

Dear Hemanth,

I'm also researching these days. The NAD amps are:

NAD 320BEE 50WX2 INR 20000
NAD 350BEE 60WX2 INR 27000
NAD 370BEE 100WX2 INR 42000

Please don't under-estimate tbese power ratings.

Checkout the websites:

NAD: nadelectronics.com
Indian Dealer: 10octaves.com

NB - Most audiophiles seem to have reservations about recommending Yamaha.

Regards

Dr. Sanjay Dhawam

Hi hemanth
The recommended approach is that you need to first decide on your speaker based on your music preference & room size and then plan on the Amp to drive them.

If you already have speakers, then an Amp can be decided on based on that... 130 W is an overkilll for most speakers..other that the high end ones or Pro Audio ones.

As Doc mentions, NAD is very conservative in its wattage ratings..and 50W in the 320 actually goes up to 100W instantaneous over 8 Ohms and upto 150 over 4 ohms...so you ar very safe there !

Hi,

I thank SDhawan and Arj for your valuable
information. But I still dont understand one
thing , how can Yamaha provide 130 W for INR 16000.,
is the quality soo poor?


Thanks and Regards
Hemanth

Hemanth....!

Its all about sound quality and parts used and product positioning....yamaha for its price range of 16k with 130 watts per channel could be good compared to a similarly priced product of the same rating.

NAD I feel is generally way better on sound and build and design. Thats what you pay the extra money for. Now there are products which are way better than the nad too and they cost a lot more.

But if you like the yamaha sound so be it. Its all upto your ears but do listen to the NAD 320bee amp 50 watt/ channel . It will blow the yamaha away, thats for sure, but thats only my opinion.

Manek.

Hi, I thank SDhawan and Arj for your valuable information. But I still dont understand one thing , how can Yamaha provide 130 W for INR 16000., is the quality soo poor? Thanks and Regards Hemanth

Well Hemanth, cost of an Amp is not power rating alone.
Characteristics like THD, Slew rate which are design dependant as well as quality of the components (Torroidal transformers, Capacitor rating, rectifiers) also come into play.
what is the use of 130 W when even 50W could blow the eardrums of a neighbour (of course Depending on speaker sensitivity)

Also the speaker load keeps varying.. 8 ohms nominal speakers may also present a 3 ohm load during certain transient conditions. the amp should have a capacity to deliver that increase in current at that short time..

Not to say that the Yamaha is not good. But before going by the 130 W rating. also find out
- At what impedance is it rated ie is it at 8,6 or 4
- Rating at 4 ohms should usually be double the rating at 8 ie the amp should be designed for more than double the curent rating..this holds true for most Class AB amplifiers.


that should be enough for the beginning.. but in the end you should listen to the output using your speakers.. eg my Amp is only 25 W but can drive my speakers much better than most amps with 3 times the power rating and costs more than 4 times more!

Hemanth,

I just bought NAD 320BEE & KEF Coda 90 speakers. The speakers cost me twice as much as the Amp. But I think it may be worth it.

Power rating of an Amplifier is what you see (or tell) but you don't really hear. Mostly you would end up hearing at less than 50 % of the volume control (unless you plan to scare your neighbors away).

If you carefully browse the forums other reviews on the net, you will get genuine advice about what to buy.

By the way, what has been your past experience with audio? What systems have you been using so far?

All the best

Sanjay

Hi Everyone,

I joined the Forum yesterday while I was searching the net for reviews on integrated amplifiers and speakers.
Similiar to Hemanth and others, I am on the lookout for an entry level stereo amp. and floorstanding speakers.

I have shortlisted the following speakers - Mission M33 and Jamo E550. The Mission M74i looks good on the http://www.soundnvisionhifi.com website but my local Bangalore dealers tell me that the model is discontinued.

How does the Jamo E550 compare to the Missions?

For amps. my list contains - Cambridge Audio 540A, NAD 320BEE, Yamaha AX-396 and Onkyo A-9211. I have seen the comments on the Yamaha and plan to remove it

How does the 540A compare to the 320BEE and Onkyo?

I need advice on couple of aspects -
a) What would be a good combination of Amp+Speakers at the entry level? Pls. comment on your experience on the above components.

b) Is it a good idea to get them shipped from M/S SoundnVision (Pune) to my place in Bangalore? Jamos & Missions are available here, but the CA and NAD amps are rare items in Bangalore.

c)Some of my local dealers are trying to sell me their display peices saying that that is 'normal'. Shouldn't I insist on unopened and brand new components?

Please help !!

Thanks

Sanjay,

Could you share your experience with the NAD 320BEE. I think you are based in Delhi, could you let me know who the dealer is.

Thanks
Joydeep

Hi Everyone, IFor amps. my list contains - Cambridge Audio 540A, NAD 320BEE, Yamaha AX-396 and Onkyo A-9211. I have seen the comments on the Yamaha and plan to remove it How does the 540A compare to the 320BEE and Onkyo? Thanks

Hi JOy,
I do not think anyone means harm against the yamaha, you never know when a giant killer comes up. Eg a Pioneer A400 around 5 years back was considered better than the NAD and Rotels of that day and is still loved and owned by many.
Since everything goes by the "ears" on the audition, there is nothin wrong is anything else is liked..it would be boring if everyone in this forum had a NAD !

then NAD/Rotel and the Cambridge (Along with Marantz) are considered as very safe and tried and tested..hence the reason for recommendation, as that should fit into any music taste

Also the above work well with most speakers as they are designed in a bit more "generic " fashion. Typically at entry level most speakers and Amps match well and have some synergy. it is only at Middle end and at the high end that individual quirks come in requiring more careful matching.

Hence in the end you have to decide what sounds well for the music you like !
Also keep the room size and shape into account as the most important components that affect the sound are
1. Quality of recording - most often ignored
2. Room accoustics - very often ignored
3. Speakers.
hence if the sound is bright it could very well be due to bad recording (Which is the case for most of Hindi cds!) as well as too many room reflections

amps/cdps etc affect only 15-20 % of the sound and usually differences can be made even in that by adjusting room accoustics !

Hence regarding speaker sound, it is Very important to Audition them yourself with your cds, if you are particular about sound..

Cheers!

HI Joy,

In Bangalore, the guy in MusicRanch, 4th block , Jayanagar(26532145) told me that he can get me NAD amp, but there is no NAD set for demo, and that guy says TEAC is better than NAD,

Can anyone give some details on how are TEAC amplifiers?

TEAC is a Japanese brand which also makes the very HIgh end Esotoric range of source equipment.( USD10,000 + range)

But I must say the dealer is very silly if he says that one brand is better than the other. if things were so clearcut, there would hardly be any discussion in most forums !

Am sure he is getting a better margin on those brands!


Teac is a good brand.. known in their CDps..though have not heard much on their amps. hence would be interesting to hear if you are able tol isten to it along with an NAD and post your comments here for us to read !

Hi Arj,
I have heard the TEAC, it didn't sound that great, the bass was poor, Yamaha was better than that, but still that dealer was insisting that Teac is a better one.

you are right that the dealer might be getting more margin on teac amps.

Arj,

I think he is talking about the entry level TEAC combo of cdp, amp and tuner which is in the market at the moment, is it not Hemanth ?

No it is not entry level combo amp,

It is a Stereo amp with 50 watt per channel one(17000 INR).

hmm...must be a new product or maybe the dealer is charging a whole lot of money. The last time I saw a teac silver amp with matching CDP, bundled for around 20K. Was reviewed in AV max as well. Wonder if its the same thing ?

Manek.

I had seen that Teac amp in AV max which was a combo amp,
the one I saw was a different one.

Arj - thanks for your comments on creating the right environment and selecting a quality source for the music. I am generally into english pop/rock and sometimes classical music. Most of my CDs are original though I have bitten by the MP3 bug big time!!

Hemanth - Thanks for the input. I spoke to guy at Music Ranch and he is consistent in his recommendations for Teac. Made more or less the same pitch to me. Also, said he would sell Mission speakers to me but didn't seem to have any new stock. Whats on your current shortlist for amp + speakers?

All - pls comment on the comparision between the Cambridge Audio and NAD. Any experience on the Mission speakers?

Thanks
Joy

joY,
nothing wrong with Mp3..in fact if ripped at 256 it gives a surprisingly good soundstaging. What i mean is the quality of the source from which the CD was created. old indian cds have a hight treble and not so good midrange hence no Speaker will give the artists tru justice !!

Regarding comparison between Amps, first get a set of speakers which appeal to you..bioth by sound signature as well as looks & size. once you have that we can discuss teh Amp !

I have not heard jamos well enough so really not aware of their signature sound,But on the whole they do not seem to be doing well on the 2 channle audio scene as they used to.

Missions are good with all 4 ie NAD/Rotel/Marantz & Cambridge. and depending on personal tastes different folks prefer each of the above.
Missions are very good entry speaker and can play a wide variety of music including Rock and should last you a very long time.

one niggling comment I read time and again about the cambridge amp is that it has a very hyperactive protection circuit. Goes into protection mode time and again on transients like high energy choral pieces etc. havent experienced it personally but have heard many people talk about it. could be trur could not be true !

jamo 2 channel speakers E850/E855 onwards are good and infact some of them like the D830/870 D570/590 and very good. The lower models just dont seem to cut it and I think are more for HT. I hear them just about every weekend at a nearby audio shop. I think you are better off with the missions rather than jamo 550. Though jamo gives all its customers a great 5 yr warranty in India on all its speakers. Nobody else gives that except Bose and B&W in India.

Manek.

Dear Joy,

I have just bought:

1. NAD 3200BEE
2. KEF Coda 90
3. Teac CDP-1160D
4. Pioneer DVD 373S
5. Monster Cables (mid level)

I did not audition too many amps but a lot of speakers though. I have been hearing the above combo for last 2 days now - my first impression:
- Sound crystal clear, every high and every low can be heard distinct from the other. There is no rumble of bass and there is no swish or trrring of high. Sounds pure.
- I didn't have to raise the volume more that 25 %. And I think I wont ever need to raise it more than 33 %
- Both hindi & english music sounds good. Western classical to Hindi film music - very pleasing

But it may actually be too soon for me to judge.

MY impressions about the other speakers I auditioned (auditioning in the showroom may not be the same as listening in your living room):

- KEF Cresta 30 - Good and clear though bass is a bit lacking
- KEF Q 4 - as Manek puts it - bright
- Wharfedale Xarus / Valdus - too much bass and a lot of rumble which on first impression may even impress you but just compare it with others and you realize that it sounds fuzzy.
- Wharfedale Diamond 8 Bookshelf model - Decent but I wanted the floorstanders
- Infinity - too bright
- Onkyo - OK
- Sonodyne - value for money

To summarize: more the choices more is the confusion

It would help to visit the dealers who has a good stock of different type of speakers and you should audition 3-4 times at over 1-2 weeks. First impressions can be misleading.

Happy searching

Sanjay

Thanks Arj, Manek and Sanjay for your comments. It definitely helps to hear and learn from everyone's experiences.

My plan is to try and get to hear the NAD320BEE with the Mission 74i. I have heard the Mission M33 with a Yamaha AX-596 and liked the sound but would like to hear the bigger M74i before deciding. The nice thing about the NAD is that the clipping circuitry can be switched off and on. I don't think that is an option on the Cambridge.

Sanjay - Is there a NAD dealer is in Delhi? Address and Number, pls.

More updates after I return from my journey to the dealer.

Joy

The nice thing about the NAD is that the clipping circuitry can be switched off and on. Joy

Well i am willing to bet that your ears will clip much before the amp with the missions. they are not a very tough load.

But is within you budget do try ou the Cambridge audio . Some one I know bought that combination afetr extensive auditioning and founds it the best combinateon, as per him , for vocals and Jazz also its CDP is supposedly much better than the NAD and Marantz

Dear Joy,

In Delhi NAD is available at:

Trinity Sound & Vision
R-5, GK-I
Ph-26425222
Contact person - Sandeep Jain
Sales man - Vikram is very helpful and patient when you audition various permutations and combinations
Tech guy - Sanjay is farily honest with the technical information

I have not been able to manage a good price though form them - you may try your luck.

Where are you from? Delhi?

All the best

Dr. Sanjay Dhawan

Thanks Sanjay for the address of the NAD dealer. Only if you don't mind, please let me know what was the price of the NAD. I have good friend of mine in Delhi who keeps coming to Bangalore and is willing to buy it and bring it here.
There is one dealer in Bangalore who is willing to get it for me for Rs.20000/-. (Music Ranch).

Arj, you are generally right about my ears imploding before the clipping circuit kicks in on the NAD. During my growing up years I was quite used to turning up my Dad's Technics (45W RMS x 2) to full and enjoying it. But, I guess 70 or 80W RMS will be too much to stand for long.

Anyway, I auditioned the Mission M73i and M74i with a Teac CDP and the Yamaha AX-396 at Music Ranch. Pressed the CD Direct button on the amp before the Dealer played Eagles - Hotel California (Live version) from the Hell Freezes Over album. The M73i was good and the bass was controlled though the LF unit movement was more in the 73i than in the 74i since it has 2 LF units. M74i was good but in the small audition room, the bass was too much. I had no complaints about the high frequency response or the vocals on both the sets. He wants 17K for the 73i and 24000 for the 74i. He was also suggesting a new Tannoy range called Focus 3 and 4 which he expects in Sept. Lets see. Next audition is on the Mission M33 and M34 at another dealer - though I couldn't really spot the difference looking at them.

Thanks and bye for now
Joy

Joy,

Even I got it for 20 K although the 10octaves.com website orderform mentions 18 K. If you are willing to get it from outstation then might order on the web.

Sanjay

hi joy,

you can try auditioning wharfedale diamond 8.4 with Rotel integrated amp (RA 01)at Total sound, Gem Plaza Infantry road, bangalore.ph 51132165

Anand,the techie there is very co operative. he don't have the amp right now but promised to arrange for a audition this sunday evening.

they have wharfdale evo 30(50k), xarrus(29k) and diamond 8.4(22k).don't bother looking into xarrus.
he says rotel Ra 01 and Ra 02 are of same specification(which i verified from the website www.rotel.com) but Ra 02 comes with remote and costs 24k and the one without remote is 18k.

also try profx h514(23k after discount)and h314(15k) at Barton center MG Road. They sounded pretty decent with Denon PMA 1055 R amp.

here is what i'm going to do. buy either Nad 320 or rotel ra 01 amp(as per the availibility). Then see how it sounds with wharfdale 8.4, mission 74i, profx h514, and sonodyne sonus 2605.

hey if you want you can get in touch with me in this no 9886105690. since i'm a nocturnal creature you can call me after 7 p.m(i'm a network engineer working in night shift this week)


bye

kishore

Hi!

Profx also deal in KEF speakers - do try Crest 30 and Coda 90

Sanjay

Hi all,
Can you suggest a good cd player which plays mp3 as well. Right now I got a philips one, which I think is not a good one for just listening to music.

As per my knowledge a multipurpose DVD/VCD/MP3 players play MP3. I am not aware of a dedicated cd player which plays MP3.

manek.

Hemanth,

Have you bought your system as yet? If you did please let us know what amplifier & speakers you bought. I am currently waiting for a friend to get the NAD amp for me from outside Bangalore.

Kishore,

Thanks for the information on the Wharfdales and Rotel. I plan to try and audition the speakers this weekend. Quite set on getting hold of the NAD amp. since its packs more power. How is your hunt going?

Cheers
Joy

Dear sanjay Dhawan
i need to contact you to find how ,where, and at what price to buy the TEAC CDP 1160_D.

Sunil Katiyar
Dy Commissioner

All,

Thought I would share the latest developments in my hunt for my dream system -

Reviewed the Harman Kardon HK-3380 + JBL E-60 floorstanding speakers at the local HK/JBL dealer. The HK-3380 has a tuner and phono input in addition to the usual features and packs (2x85W) at 8ohms (20Hz~20KHz). The Amp. is priced at Rs.23000 incl. the bill and warranty. Overall the sound of the amp+speaker combination is a bit bright and not warm. At hign volumes I thought it sounded pretty harsh to the ears with the vocals getting drowned in the bass and high frequency. From the build aspect, the amplifier was solid and attractive, weighing aroung 10kg.

Does anyone have experience on the above Amp?

Though I have not given up on trying to get the NAD 320BEE, I thought it was time to figure out my alternatives. I am still waiting for the Delhi dealer to get fresh stock of the NAD.....
The Denon 655RG is also available at various dealers though I have only listened to the bigger brother, the 1055RG. Its funny but the main Denon dealer in Bangalore quoted a price of 27000 whereas the smaller dealers are asking for around 22000. Makes me wonder....

Cheers
Joy

Hi All
Just joined this forum today.
Own a NAD320BEE (previous Amp Technics SUV-707 -ancient Amp)with Speakers ( Vifa - Design of Cabinet -Made in Bangalore by Corrsons -Audio Potrait -Hi End Speakers at affordable prices).CD Player is a Philips entry level.
Actually i need to change my source .
How does it sound - One can listen on a NAD without earbreaks!

try and go for the entry level nad 521bee cdp..its a good cdp for the money.

nareshn, Can you tell me how the corrson vifa based speakers sound ? Which of the acoustic portrait models have you bought and at what price ? How do they compare with other speakers in the market ? if possible which speakers did you audition before you made acoustic portrait your choice ?

manek.

A nad is always a better buy than any of the mass market japanese amps these days. No doubt companies like Yamaha, onkyo, pioneer etc used to make stellar amps. But their market positioning and customer base has forced them to adopt the normal mass market strategies and you normally end up with lots of lights and polished exteriors rather then good sound. Most of the time spec sheets are as good as toilet paper. It does not tell the whole story. A nad amp won't win a beauty contest but the engineering that goes inside makes them very musical and powerfull.Go ahead, you won't regret it.I have heard all the nad amps in my home. All are good. I preffered the C 350.

My diamond 8.4's are for sale. I am in indranagar bangalore. I bought it an year back.Moving on to bookshelf speakers due to room size constraints.

Hi,

Can you share some feedback about the 8.4 like how suitable is it for music etc. I am auditioning suitable speakers for my Rotel RA-02 and was wondering if the 8.3 or 8.4 was a better fit....

Thanks

Diamond 8 series is one of the best value for money speakers out there.They are giant killers. I wouldn't compare them to Dynaudio, proacs, cadence though. They are better but they cost much more. But these compare or better most of the other brands in the same or even higher price catogories.
A fried of mine bought a pair of BOSE 701 for almost double the price and we did a comparison at home and the diamonds beat them hands down when it comes to mid-range purity, clean highs, bass definition etc.. very good allround speakers for jazz, rock, classic rock etc... You need good amplification for this.If you are in bangalore, you could drop in for a listen with your rotel. Mail me at jazz_luvr@yahoo.com

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback on the Diamond 8s. What kind of amplifier / receiver are you using?

Thanks
Joy

What's your opinion about Diamond 8 series for home theatre setup?

Any idea about the prices of 8.1,8.2,8.4, 8 DFS, 8c and the coresponding Sub?

Why is Wharfedale so under-rated? I doesn't even get listed in AV Max.

Regards

Sanjay

Joy in hi fi, I drive them with a NAD C350.It is a musical combination. I was a bit worried initially about the rated power of the NAD. It turned out to be more powerfull than expected.You need good cables. I use kimber.

S Dhawan, The wharfedales are very popular in the US,UK and europe. In fact they cost more in the US than in India.They are a favorite with most hi-fi magazines abroad.The diamond series won five stars out of five in the group test for home theatre also competing with much more expensive brands. I guess their margins are low and production cost also low so they are not charging so much. When I checked last year,the diamond 8.4 sounded almost as good as the B&W DM603 which is priced three times more.The wharfedales has a typical laid back, wide soundstage sound which is very easy on the ears for extended listening.I don't know why it does not get listed in AV Max. I do not hold their reviews in great esteem. They are half hearted attempts and aimed at the casual music enthusiast. Listen and decide. Trust your own ears and ask opinions from seasoned audiophiles who has experience with specific brands.
last year the prices were:
8.4 - 23,000
8.2 - 12,000
8.1 - 9,000
centre - 9,000

powercube 12 inch - 20,000

Dear Hifigeek,

Thanks a lot for the info.

Sanjay

Wharfedales are great value for money. B&W 603 I know are overrated but the 8.4 are in no way comparable to the B&W 603. B&W 603 are in a league above.

Thats my personal opinion as I had listened to both in great detail when I was in the market for speakers. But then again this is my personal opinion and its not GOSPEL !

Manek.

Hey,
Have you listened to them in the same room with the same setup ?In my opinion the 603 is not a neutral speaker. It has a colored fun-sound.It has cabinet bomm also which I don't expect in a speaker in this price range.I like the quads 22L better.603 is stronger then the 8.4's in some areas like power handling,imaging, overall clarity etc..But I felt the diamonds were slightly better in the mid range and highs.The b&w had a definite ringing in the highs and I found it a bit hot.The speakers were not burned in, so I don't know. I would have like them if they were priced some 15k more than the 8.4's.In fact I would have bought them..:)) But there are other speakers in that price range with dynaudio, proac, cadence, QUAD etc.. which are wayyyyy better.

Yes...in the same house. I still felt the 603's were much better on all terms. I found the highs can be a bit sibilant sometimes on the 603 but midrange was quite OK. But then again it is just my personal opinion. dont take it too seriously

I agree with you completely on the fact that the quad 22L are far better than the 603's. Totally agree with you there. 22L is one of my favourite floorstander speakers under a lac. I just love the entire quad range. Its really fantastic. the 11L, 12L, 21L, 22L all excellent in their class. Very difficult to bring out a complete line of good sounding speakers.

Sure you mentioned the other speakers that are way better, I agree. For instance my cadence Aritas(bookshelves) eat the B&W 603S3 for breakfast on all counts ! I guess so would the other you have mentioned.

manek.

Hey Manak,
I am on the lookout for bookshelf speakers as my wharfedales are over powering my bedroom. I love them for the punch and naturalness in the sound.But the speakers extend down to around 30 hertz and exciting all the room modes. Wish I had a bigger room..
I have narrowed down to dynaudio, proacs, cadence and quad. You must have heard all these before you decided on the arita. What made you like them over the others ? I listen to classic rock, jazz, female vocals (diana krall, norah jones types), some sober pop, blues, world music, little bit of electronica etc.. at low to moderately high volumes. My amp is a NAD C350.

hi hifigeek,

yes I heard the bookshelves and floorstanders of the names you mentioned. I had a choice of going for either bookshelves or floorstander and I choose the cadence arita over all others. Nearly picked up the cadence diva but found the arita a clearer, more open speaker though they dont go as low as the Diva's. The arita's do go surprisingly low though the specs say 45hz but good placement will make you feel they can go lower.

The reasons :
1) They are perfect for the music I listen to...old jazz, classical, sinatra, tonny bennet etc.
2) I did not find any other speaker within the 60K(book or floor) price range which was better to my ears. I contemplated the quad 12L for a while but eventually settled for the Arita as it was just the sound I was looking for. Very balanced across its frequency range. Actually I was going to buy the nad 370 but ended up with the 320bee as to me it sounded the best amongst the 3 (320bee, 350,370).
3) good staging and imaging

I do have a soft corner for quad 12L as well. I love the way it handles jazz and classical. They image really well to.

Your amp nad 350 would drive all you mentioned decently well. For Dynaudio see if you can get a good deal for audience 52SE.

manek.

I am considering the dynaudio 52 seriously. My budget is around 40k. The SE I believe is above 50k. Have you at anytime compared the 12L with the dynaudio aud 52 ? I heard that the 52 can go much deeper than the rest of the BS we have in this budget. I am so used to floorstanders so I might not miss the bass so much with the 52. Any thoughts ?
Btw: what cables do you use ? What was the price of the 12L when you checked last ?
Thanks

hi,
When I checked last the 12L's were around 36k I think, dont remember now.

I think you need to really check out how low the 52's can go really compared to the others. Specs on paper dont mean much at all as we dont know under what conditions the specs hold true. The 52's I heard did not sound as they went any lower than the others I tried but I did notice a bass hump at a certain frequency so obviously they were modeled do accentuate a certian frequency to give the feeling of deep bass.

Since your room is small you could also try out a two way floorstander which would probably work for you as well. You dont have a dedicated bass driver to excite the room but you may get a very healthy bass nevertheless.
The quad 12L and 21L would be a very good choice as they use the same 6.5inch mid/bass and so would the Cadence Diva if you can get a good price for it, the 8 inch eton driver will deliver very healthy bass. Dont know if the dynaudio audience 62(2 way floorstander) would fit in your budget.

Dont know if you have heard KEF but they too have a 2 way 2 driver floorstander speaker.

manek.