Indian products Versus Foreign products...who gives you the best deal ?

Dear Neutral,

I must give you all the credit for bring up topics of such interest to the forum. It is so interesting to talk about topics that genuinely enhance the value of this forum, instead of the general banter of my stuff is better then yours and/or psssst.......great deal buy from me, kind of postings !

Like Big Ears mentioned in his posting any magazine is a good starting point after that I would go on to the net and search for genuine customer reviews as the first priority than I would go for additional magazine reviews. You could follow it up with requests for unbiased views from forums followed lastly but most importantly, with listening tests comparing an equally speced & priced products.

Couple of additional comments, if you find in the magazines, an advertisement next to the review or in the corresponding pages of the similar company, take that review with a pinch of salt ! Like wise dealer & distributors views need to be viewed skeptically when they are talking either about their product or others. If possible have the dealer demonstrate his product in your listening environment, Lastly but most importantly, use music which you have been used to evaluate the different choices that exist.

As you learn more and more...which only comes with experience you will be able to differentiate the wheat from the chaff...be it in technical specification, or brands, or dealers or distributors or warranties etc..... There is plenty of information on audio technical specifications glossaries available off the net as well as helpful forums ( like this one) where you will get unbiased advice. Beware of distributors & dealers who are reluctant to give you technical specifications who talk in general terms, who only try & confuse you rather then assisting you to make informed decisions.

Take your time, never try to rush in for a purchase, however much pressure a dealer may attempt to put you through.

There are additional questions that I have posted in the previous posting, as applicable you might want to consider seeking answers from various sources whom you intend to deal with. Remember you are not doing anyone a favour in buying their stuff, it is your hard earned money & you have a right to know exactly what you need to know.

Off hand I cannot think of dealers that provide home-demos in Mumbai...all I can say all those inhospitable dealers / distributors, are going to change their business dealing because quite a few drastic changes are looming in the horizon. As they say "You can run but cannot hide" !!

About Lithos, I believe they use Peerless (India) drivers. If that is the case you might want to know a thing or two about Peerless...

Like I explained in my previous posting it is not so much about custom drivers as about getting quality products using components that have well defined parameters, at a competitive price.

All said and done Neutral thank you once again for coming up with such interesting topics...get that mind whirring again to come up with some more good stuff !

Regards,

Junia.

sivat schrieb:

Arj, Let's be rational here...Sony and Kenwood does not use drivers from the driver manufacturer we are talking here. If a driver-X is standard, then companies like LV, gets it modified to suite thier integration need. However, they do not drive the very basic R&D on the driver-X. More Important - this does not mean the the standard driver-X is bad in comparision to the modified version. It is also true that many manufacturer use standard models .. without any custom modifications. If you need more info with examples...call me at 98455-17730, as this cannot be discussed here.

Point granted on the Kenwood/ Sony part.. was not thinking too much there

however. LV does do R&D on the sound part (I do not think i meant R&D as important only to drivers) including drivers ( Among crossover and cabinet design also its foam ..requiring a change every 4 years) and thats when they reason they are able to say what parameters they want modified.

But as mentioned by Big Ears, i have nothing against local manufacturers including yourself ..i sincerely wish the tribe would increase.

big-ears schrieb:

Practically all the procurement people in these outfits, a majority of them Indians, have regretted their inability to keep Indian lines because of their experience with lack of quality. Sure, some of the reputable names, like Tata and others have built up a standing here, but by and large, the small to mid sized manufacturers indulging in cutting corners have not succeeded. Regarding your views on mag reviews, well, anybody with a little experience in hifi knows that reviews can only be a starting point. But look at it from this angle. Because you read the reviews, at least you were guided to the top of the heap, namely Naim and Arcam, right at the beginning. If there had been no reviews available, then you would have first bought XYZ product, found it not good enough, sold it for a loss, graduated to LMN product found it not upto your standards, sold it for a loss....and so on. You could still be floundering about, not having reached the Arcam level till date, and lost a lot more money in the process…… Cheers

Big-Ears,

1) Could'nt agree with you more on the quality aspect; Deliver quality products requires both "quality consiousnous" and the business viability to absorb the "cost of quality". Most indian companies suffer from either or both these syndromes. However, i don't think you mean to say "All Indian products lack quality..."

2) Given the general trend of the indian industry, agree with you that consumers cannot trust an Indian product. But some are ready to give Indian products a try. All of our views are different in this regard and each of our use our own judgement to arrive at the conclusion. At the end of the day, if you strongly belive Indian products HAS to be bad - you will never be happy after purchasing a Indian product...hence i would recommend you to go for import. There is nothing wrong in ensuring your investment is in safe hand...and i fully appreciate your opinion.

I know you (neither Arj) are targeting any specific name or product including ourself.

Mr. Junia,

There is no need for me to confuse folks with vague statements. Customers/forum-members who wanted more DETAILS have contacted us personally for clarification...and i'm glad they did not assume too many things as you have done.

Your assumption on driver manufacturer and supply are baseless accussations and very misleading to the forum members. Please don't use this forum to spread rumors..

If you need to know more about us, because the statements were vague - ask us - before jumping to conclusion. You are creating damaging statements in public forum.

Please learn to treat other commercial members and business with respect and dignity.

Manek,

As moderator ,i request to strongly condem commercial members talking spuriously about others and use this forum to extend commerical intrests..

Arj schrieb:

however. LV does do R&D on the sound part (I do not think i meant R&D as important only to drivers) including drivers ( Among crossover and cabinet design also its foam ..requiring a change every 4 years) and thats when they reason they are able to say what parameters they want modified.

Fully agreed ... i was refering to this as "Integration Needs". Without R&D one cannot arrive at params that needs to be modified/customized.

Dear Siva,

Firstly I am making general statements and they are not directed to you. I think there is more then one driver trader in India today. Only to your specific comments did I request for specific clarifications, which you are at liberty to answer or not answer...the choice is really up to you.

Secondly I have done exactly what you wanted me to do..... ask you for a clarification.....unfortunatly I am yet to receive any answers.

Thirdly I have made assumptions on what you have written and on facts that can be proved scientifically on a repetitive basis...I have been there & know exactly what I am writing.

If my so called assumptions are baseless, I guess the whole string of people who want to get their drivers tested will post their findings on the forum of what I farce I was or am. Moreover all the PM's & posting I am receiving of people benefiting from my postings must be untrue...... if one were to go by your views.

This is debate, why don't you refute what I am stating logically & scientifically instead of throwing tantrums and being so heavy handed ?

Please Siva I don't have to market my wares on this forum. I am primary in software & audio is more of a hobby then anything else...maybe you should visit our offices to see things for your self.

Regards,

Junia.

This is getting a bit uncomfortable hence would leave it to Manek as the moderator to answer..

But cannot help but notice, i just see siva surfacing purely to defend commercial interests ! would really appreciate if you could contribute this to the forum by giving information on what this is all about that c. That way at least your posts would have credibility to me and perhaps to other folks as well if you are known as an audiophile first and then as the dealer/designer of AP !

By not doing so you are only strenghtning my conviction that Indian audio manufacturers are only businessmen and not at all driven by love for audio !

Junia, while the infomation given out by you as well as your evident knowledge on audio is really appreciated. it has definitely added value at least personally to me. I guess it is when any commercial interest that you may have that seems to be getting the goat of some people..perhaps that aspect could be toned down.

Dear Arj,

Arj, please allow me to clarify a few things.

Yes I do distribute audio products like Harbeths & Plinius in India & yes I did do a bit of subtle marketing on the forum initially, but then it struck me sharing my experiences was far more satisfying then making a few extra bucks. I don't need to be peddling audio equipment to make ends meet, as I run a pretty successful software company with offices worldwide.

All my customers, including my dear friend Shiv can testify, that equipment was sold to them at the distributor's price, solely for the reason that they showed an avid interest in audio and since they shared a similar passion as myself I only thought it only fair to give them equipment at the price I got them at. In a few hours I would be carrying a XXL large suitcase of DIY components for folks in INDIA, again at the cost price of the components...the reasoning was simple they shared a similar passion as mine.
Nothing gives me greater joy then seeing a fellow Indian enjoying good audio products & components...a pleasure which I couldn't enjoy when I was their age. You know all about the stuff of myself carrying that Grado RS1 headphone & Outlaw Audio preamp....just so someone could audition the same...without any strings attached. I don't want to boast here.....I know what I am doing and I also know my motives...which incidentally isn't laced with any commercial interests nor am I targeting any one.

I believe knowledge is power and that it is the customer to decide which brand he wants to buy, as there are no absolutes in terms of music reproduced by electronics.

The customer can only make an informed decision before he makes a purchase, if he knows what he is getting into or else he would join the ranks of "Regreters" Which I believe are all strewn along the highway of Audio.

If Manek believes that it is inappropriate to bring things out into the open, by all means I will refrain from mentioning anything of this nature on this forum, though my crusade will continue relentlessly through other means......I feel it is high time the Indian customer got value for his hard earned money, instead of being treated as if a great favour has been bestowed upon him............

Regards,

Junia.

sivat schrieb:

Big-Ears, 1) Could'nt agree with you more on the quality aspect; Deliver quality products requires both "quality consiousnous" and the business viability to absorb the "cost of quality". Most indian companies suffer from either or both these syndromes. However, i don't think you mean to say "All Indian products lack quality..." 2) Given the general trend of the indian industry, agree with you that consumers cannot trust an Indian product. But some are ready to give Indian products a try. All of our views are different in this regard and each of our use our own judgement to arrive at the conclusion. At the end of the day, if you strongly belive Indian products HAS to be bad - you will never be happy after purchasing a Indian product...hence i would recommend you to go for import. There is nothing wrong in ensuring your investment is in safe hand...and i fully appreciate your opinion. I know you (neither Arj) are targeting any specific name or product including ourself.

Siva,

Am glad to see you appreciating the very points I had made in my initial post and which were refuted by our dear friend Square wave, thereby ensuing in my contribution to this debate.

I don’t think I have ever said “All Indian companies…”

As an Indian I do take a certain amount of pride in our achievements in IT and Bio-tech, and as an “International” Indian it does feel good to rub shoulders with your western counterparts on equal terms. But the fact remains that by and large, we still have some way to go when it come to manufacturing the kind of quality that can compete in the international market.

Most of our forum members, judging by the depth of the questions they ask, seem like they have had very little exposure to hifi and to the good products available internationally. I don’t blame them, I was sailing in the same boat when I was their age. But 15 plus years of association with this hobby, coupled with exposure to the best products world wide have, I think, contributed substantially in removing most of the moisture behind my ears, and I would like to share my experience with them…..

Cheers

Arj...

You said "This is getting a bit uncomfortable hence would leave it to Manek as the moderator to answer.. But cannot help but notice, i just see siva surfacing purely to defend commercial interests ! would really appreciate if you could contribute this to the forum by giving information on what this is all about that c. That way at least your posts would have credibility to me and perhaps to other folks as well if you are known as an audiophile first and then as the dealer/designer of AP ! By not doing so you are only strenghtning my conviction that Indian audio manufacturers are only businessmen and not at all driven by love for audio !"

Acually, we leave it to Siva to be active on the forum and to contribute as and when he feels like it. Its a personal choice. I still feel that if he thinks that his product and brand is being discredited in any way, he has the right to speak up and that personally does not hamper his credibility in any way.

junia, Siva may not be able to divilge much info on the volumes he drives in India or other countries around India etc into the public forum for business reasons, we all must understand that.
On other details about the products specs, I guess it just depends on the manufacturer's policy. Some manufacturers are transparent to a point and some more than others and ofcourse there are commercial reasons for the same. Either way if Consumers want more info from Corrson, I'm sure he will give the info within the company policy framework but it is left to the individual consumer to decide whether the info given is confusing or beneficial to him.

More and more competition in the market will bring the products of local manufacturers upto scratch if they are not there already and bring in more transparency.

Some valid points on both sides have been made. The test of time is the only surefire test to see what the products do in the marketplace. Yes the small companies will have to put in a lot of efforts to compete with the well established brands. The days of "level playing field" as our government used to say are over. Its David v/s mid-size vendor v/s Goliath. Each of them have to play to their strengths to become successfull in India. Being the patriotic one I still maintain that people should not discount local manufacturers, they just may surprise you. A fair evaluation of products(indian or imported) is the best way to go.

Manek.



Manek.

Hi guys,
I am back after a nice weekend..:))
Hey, this thread has gone in various directions. But has turned out to be very useful.
I just wanted to clarify some views. The only reason why I participated is to put forward the following views:
1. I never said that ANYBODY can make good loudspeaker designs in India. Anybody with the right intentions, knowledge and R&D facility can do it because core technology is already available. High end technology used in decades old loudspeakers is enough to knock the knickers off any mid-end speaker in the market today even if they are using trickle down technology from their higher models.
2. I was not literally comparing old high-end equipment to new mid-end ones. I was basically trying to point out that very high-end amplifier and speaker technology has been around for quite a while and is available to those who want it.
3. The basic reason why I felt strongly about supporting good local players using high end core technology is due to my own experience. I never even suggested that their mid-priced products are better or on par with high-end products from the big branded players. But from my experience and in my honest opinion, they are far better than any mid-price or budget product available from the brands. And the bonus is that you can get it for the same or lesser price. I guess this forum is mostly populated with people looking out for budget/mid-priced products. There are very few who can shell out heaps of money for super high-end. I just wanted to share my experience with those who want a better product for the money they are willing to spend. But trust your own ears !

As Manek said “A fair evaluation of products (Indian or imported) is the best way to go “

Hi Square Wave,

We seem to be getting back to Square One



cheers

Yes I repeat....

A fair evaluation will make sure that the best product/brand/distributor/dealer succeeds.....
The consumer will in the bargain get his money's worth and more.

Manek.

Dear Square Wave,

You hit the nail on the head Square Wave by saying "Anybody with the right intentions, knowledge and R&D facility can do it because core technology is already available."

Perhaps customers need to ask Manufacturers about the R&D facilities ( if they own or even rent one), the software they use while designing their products ( If they use free internet downloadable software or cheap $ 30 software, you know what to expect), what is their pedigree and more importantly their warranty policies.

Regards,

Junia.

Hi Neutral,

Since you seem to be online, could you settle my curiosity about the NAD 320BEE amp?

Cheers

Hi big ears,
I guess it is time we all stopped yapping and start listening instead. We all will have points and in the end nobody wins....
Listen without prejudice and do a fair evaluation and let your ears be the judge always….You will be surprised how much you know is wrong or is not even useful for you. Audio according to me is all about listening and learning for yourself. Over the years, I have found out that most of the brands I have wanted to own are really not my taste after listening to them. Some of them are very highly respected brands and comes with glowing reviews from very respected magazines. I am not saying they are bad. It is not my taste. Some of them are rubbish ! There is lot of hype and brand marketing in this game. Being careful and believing in your ears is the key.

Dear Square wave,

Thank you very much for your post above.

Must say it has been as enlightening as most of your earlier ones...

Cheers

Hi Big-Ears,

I have heard the Nad 320 Bee combined with the Lithos Noa-1 speakers. They make a splendid combination with neutral and beautiful sound. Highly recommended.

The combination of Pulz RS-250 power amp and Pulz Status 203 bookshelfs also yields high quality and neutral sound (but with lower dynamics). Recommended for slower and background music.

The power section of the Pulz is comparable with the power section of the Nad. So if you didn't require a pre-amp, it's a lot cheaper at just 9,000. Otherwise the Pulz pre-amp cost another 6,000.

The Nad has more features including a remote control and a soft-clipping circuit which the Pulz lacks. The Pulz however has 10W more power than the Nad.

I would say that they are a close match but the only way to tell which is better is to compare them side-by-side with the same speakers (which I have been unable to do).

Hi Neutral,

So the PULZ pre + power costs 15K, yet sounds only as good as the 320BEE which also has soft clipping and a remote?

Cheers

ps, just a small tip, I wouldn't go entirely by the specs published. NAD is known to be pretty conservative there.

Ya Big Ears,

The remote will cost you Rs 3000 extra (assuming the Nad costs 18,000). Soft clipping is helpful only if you play really loud. Completely worthless feature for me.

I couldn't afford the Nad. So took the Pulz. If you don't need multiple sources, why waste on a pre-amp? And the Pulz power has got gain controls so you do have some volume adjustment facility.

Hi Neutral,

This means the Pulz pre + power + remote will set one back by 18K.

Do you know that a 320BEE costs the equivalent of just 8.6K here in the UAE? Ask young Benks, he purchased one here a little while ago.

This underscores the point Junia has been trying to make, about dealers ripping off uninformed customers.

I understand the 320BEE is sold for around 20K in India. So someone like you feels he is getting a fantastic deal from a local company for just 18K, little knowing that the NAD is available at half the price abroad. And mind you, we are talking about a one off piece purchased retail in the UAE, which has a cost of living higher than India.

Now imagine with a scrupulous dealer negotiating a good price from the manufacturers direct and shipping in bulk to India, you could very well have the 320BEE for just around 12.5K.

Wouldn't you then be tempted to buy the NAD?

Cheers

Hi Big Ears,

How horrible! I guess I was living in fool's paradise. I would certainly have bought the Nad. At that price it would be a steal.

But tell me. Why isn't there any competition among dealers in India? And how come DVD players here don't cost so much. Is the competition greater in that area?

square_wave schrieb:

There are only very few companies like Seas, focal, jm lab, b&w, DST, dynaudio etc...who do research in core technology.All the rest including some reputed names just borrow their drivers.

Hey man...
i don't know where u get this from....but thee companies u have mentioned are only a few(there are many...if u don't know this then it is better for u to keep ur postings under check)...it is better to triple check ur wordings before u post them....
U guys are not even scratching the surface of driver design..let alone the crossover, cabinet and what not...
i mean i tried to go thru and understand the material sciences that go into driver design but it is just too much...
am tired now...i'll continue later...
Cheers,
Ben


p.s: sorry guys!..been a while...just finished my final theory paper"wavelet Transforms" on saturday. Am back for good now!

benkenobi schrieb:

square_wave schrieb: There are only very few companies like Seas, focal, jm lab, b&w, DST, dynaudio etc...who do research in core technology.All the rest including some reputed names just borrow their drivers. Hey man... i don't know where u get this from....but thee companies u have mentioned are only a few(there are many...if u don't know this then it is better for u to keep ur postings under check)...it is better to triple check ur wordings before u post them.... U guys are not even scratching the surface of driver design..let alone the crossover, cabinet and what not... i mean i tried to go thru and understand the material sciences that go into driver design but it is just too much... am tired now...i'll continue later... Cheers, Ben p.s: sorry guys!..been a while...just finished my final theory paper"wavelet Transforms" on saturday. Am back for good now! :*

Yeah..I know there are a few more. I frankly don’t know all of them. If you read my sentence once again carefully, nowhere have I mentioned that they are the only ones! Why don’t you post all the name of companies who make drivers? It would be a big help !
It is true that most brands world wide use drivers made by these companies. The drivers are either made specifically for them or they just design the crossover/cabinet for existing drivers. There are very few companies who make everything in-house.

now hold on a minute....u say one thing and want to know abt something else...
u say that there are very few companies that do everything inhouse which i agree completely(take Ferrari and Toyota for instance in F1)....but u were referring to 'core technology' while referring to drivers...and hence my reply...
i would definitley be able to give u a listing of most of the widely known companies. But, would u care to tell me how that would help you? i don't mind giving u the list...exceptt that it would take some time of mine...a premium which i nor u have.... unless of course u are planning to build ur own speakers...
Cheers,
Ben

Hey Guys,

I am traveling to India, in a few hours time, so please excuse my delay as to my inputs.

But Boy or Boy I am going to dive right into this as I have so much to say on this subject.

Regards,

Junia.

P.S. For all those PM's I have received...guys please don't thank me...this is a right of yours to know what is going on behind the scenes. Please don't fall into the pits which I and so many other senior members have fallen in the past......

No matter where its manufactured Indian or Foreign if it provides good sonic qualities then I will go for it.

Sonic_Master schrieb:

No matter where its manufactured Indian or Foreign if it provides good sonic qualities then I will go for it.

I think everyone would agree with that statement as it is one of the most generic.. Like saying if he/she is a "Good person" I will like him/her
.. it is with the definition of the term "sonic qualities" that we would all differ on..isnt that the crux of this hobby ? and perhaps that leads to most interesting discussions like this one

I guess it is with the aspect of future proofing you purchase with regard to what you know about audio now and what you might learn about its subtelities later that these things need to be looked at differently.

Unfortunately being just 1-2 years into this hobby is not really the best time to define a future system if you think of this is a passionate hobby as in most cases it will change

On the other hand if you are looking at it as another form of entertainment then you should be fine by going by what you think of it now as it will not change much with time

Cheers

Neutral schrieb:

Hi Big Ears, How horrible! I guess I was living in fool's paradise. I would certainly have bought the Nad. At that price it would be a steal. But tell me. Why isn't there any competition among dealers in India? And how come DVD players here don't cost so much. Is the competition greater in that area?

Hi Neutral,

I guess we all have a lot to learn, and in hifi, believe you me, it comes only through experience. Most of the senior members here are pretty knowledgeable, and I am sure in addition to being well read, also have substantial first hand listening experience across a wide range of quality products, thereby knowing better than to get obsessed with some entry level product.

I really do not know much about the mechanics of dealer network in India, maybe Junia has done a preliminary study and is better qualified to answer this one. The disparity in prices is not a figment of my imagination, it is very much there for every one to see.

On your query on the DVD players being so cheap, I guess it is market economics at work here. HT has caught on worldwide in a manner that is simply unimaginable and sales of DVD players have shot through the roof. So probably it is economies of scale coming to the aid of the consumer once again. Also, the really cheap DVD players seem to be the ones churned out by China and Korea, they do have an advantage when it comes to pricing.

Cheers

big-ears schrieb:

Also, the really cheap DVD players seem to be the ones churned out by China and Korea, they do have an advantage when it comes to pricing. Cheers

Also the quality is not too bad either as they anyway are the OEMs to the big players !

Hi Big Ears,

Could you please tell me the prices of the following DVD players in the Middle East:
Harmon Kardon
NAD
Onkyo
Pioneer Universal player
Toshiba

Would it be advantageous for me to get someone to import them for me rather than buying locally. I doubt a cheap Samsung, Krisons etc would do any justice to my system.

Dear Neutral,

Big Ears is absolutely right, nothing comes easy when it comes to Audio ! A lot of us have spent enough & more on our mistakes & it grieves our hearts to see youngsters going down the same path, as we had taken and which brought us grief ! Please don't get me wrong, not all paths on the Audio high way leads to grief, but there are so many pit falls which we have fallen into in the past...which we wouldn't wish anyone else to fall into.

Sadly there are still sharks looming around who want to short change you at every step and prey on your gullibility. I sincerely hope, this forum may provide the necessary sanctuary to a newbie or beginner to run to for help & that us oldies can provide that help without any strings attached & with no ulterior motives.

Having said that, you made a comment " But tell me. Why isn't there any competition among dealers in India? Before I get into that let me take the liberty of explaining the whole chain of distributorship from an Indian perceptive....not to make it so dry I will attempt to illustrate with examples

Firstly you have the manufacturer who put the components together to make the products ( We may call the manufacturer the Bakery Chef ! ) he can choose to use good quality components or bad or medium, components (when it comes quality here I mean ratings & tolerances) that have got a particular seal of authentication /approval UL, CE, ISI etc... or no standards at all ( here it could mean the whole gamut apart from tolerances & ratings)...by the way in most developed countries abroad if you have no approvals you are debarred from manufacture. Much the same if a Chef does not use approved ingredients he cannot cook. In India that rule is still be enforced & some reputed companies with a conscience use good approved components and others take advantage of the system by using sub standard components, thus taking customers for a ride.

It finally boils down to the pedigree of the manufacturer, inspite of approvals being in place a manufacturer can still use approved components of lesser rating & tolerances that what others would use...darn better then using components that have no authentication /approval at all at all !!

The manufacturer then sells the product to the Distributor, which normally is one per country...much the same as a baker would distribute his products to the various cities in a state. The manufacturer as he has to depend solely upon the Distributor invariably gives the distributor a universal Distributorship price, which more often then not is half to one third the final retail price.

The Distributor then get the product into his country....now the real fun starts. We have the good distributors, the bad distributors & the not so good & bad distributors. The goods ones after paying all the local & Federal/ Central taxes, interests costs etc add a nominal mark up, the bad ones knowing the US retail prices & the present taxes & duties marks up the price higher then the US retail prices, after heavily under invoicing the goods, the not so good & bad distributors, under invoice the goods add their mark up to approximately the US retail price or slightly lower then the US prices, all of these come up with a final MRP price & pass the product on to the various dealers in their territories.

The dealer makes approximately 10 to 20% from the MRP and goods are normally given on a consignment basis or on cash & carry basis. Much the same as the state Distributor of the bakery gives the product to your local grocery (Baniya) store.

As you can see there is a lot of room for corruption to take place from the top to the bottom. As Big ears said if you are unaware you will be ripped off !

So how does one go about finding the right price for the component that he intends to buy ? Perhaps you could go to the net & find out the US retail price, half it ( which is very conservative) add the local taxes & duties ( Arj gave an excellent link in one of his previous posts) add a max of 40% which is again on the higher side and you can determine the price of your product of what it should cost you. After that shop around there has got to be more then one dealer in your locality. For the more adventurous guys who want to purchase from Singapore, Hong Kong & Dubai...you are well off halving your price, add your air ticket & associated costs and bring it to India. Problems at Customs ? If you PM me I shall advise you about how to go about it.....it is actually very simple one you know the rules of the game....... Also in another separate posting I wish or anybody else could start a thread on "Shopping abroad the do's & don't's". Another interesting thread I wanted to start or anyone else can start was "Dealers...what should you expect from them ?" God willing we will get into these topics in the coming days.

Hope the above helps,

Regards,

Junia.

P.S. For brevity sake I have heavily condensed the above post, if any need more clarifications or have any questions, please feel free to ask !

I hope the things just improve,in India,and Junia will break the ice.
If anyone who is going to get the stuff at half the US prices + local taxes+some profit,it is going to be a heaven for consumers.
Cheers..

Thanks Junia,

From your post, I understand that the markup in the US is high at 100%. I guess that if I add in the local taxes and a 40% distribution chain margin, the Indian prices should actually be lower than the US prices.

I just checked the price of the Pioneer DV-578-A-S DVD player on the net and found it to be just around a 100$. But I am very doubtful that a would get this DVD Audio player at such a competitive price in India.

Neutral,
in the grey market you justmay find it.

manek.